Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[celluloid]

One aspect that stands out as more recent is that all of this talk about profitability starts before anyone has seen the film and thus knows whether they want to see more or less of it. In terms of discussing the film's budget, what do you want them to have cut from the budget of Wish to make it more profitable without making it less of a film you would want to see?

I don't follow the first portion of your post's logic. There are plenty of films that cost too much for what they are to likely return that I still know I want to go see them. It's already been addressed that budgets are more transparent by the time movies are marketed. Barbie had visuals, celeb casting, original songs and kept a lower budget than many Disney animated most live action goals.

To the second part of your post, I am wondering where a lot of the money went. Have not heard songs yet, but it certainly does not have a high quality animated look any more than other animated films from the same company that have had a lower cost and other companies as well. I always tend to start with celebrity casting. They probably got a good deal on Pine, but I don't think he adds much value compared to what he likely cost.
Easier with movies already out. Haunted Mansion could have cost millions by not having the celebrity casting throughout.

Flipping the question, it would be fair to ask you, why do you think WISH cost 200 million?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I don't follow the first portion of your post's logic. There are plenty of films that cost too much for what they are to likely return that I still know I want to go see them. It's already been addressed that budgets are more transparent by the time movies are marketed. Barbie had visuals, celeb casting, original songs and kept a lower budget than many Disney animated most live action goals.

I guess I am trying to unpick the logic of being so concerned about potential profitability based on the logic that greater profits will mean more of what you want to see. In this case, is your concern for the profitability based on wanting to see more things like Wish even though you haven't seen it yet? Or is it something else driving this concern?

Flipping the question, it would be fair to ask you, why do you think WISH cost 200 million?

How would I even know how they calculated the budget of this film?

 

[celluloid]

I guess I am trying to unpick the logic of being so concerned about potential profitability based on the logic that greater profits will mean more of what you want to see. In this case, is your concern for the profitability based on wanting to see more things like Wish even though you haven't seen it yet? Or is it something else driving this concern?


How the hell would I even know how they calculated the budget of this film?

I do want to see Wish. I never said I did not. Original stories are something I want to see more of again from Disney. I know they don't have to cost 200 million dollars in present market animated or not. I was unpacking your difficulty understanding why people would be happy and care about when things that they like do well, or be satisfied when diminished returns cause a company to make a different product or new direction.
I think you are tossing around the word concern but it's really educated guess. No one knows, but no one was shocked that Haunted Mansion was not likely going to to do well based on creative choices and knowledge of it's budget.

To the second part of your latest post, then why the heck would you fairly ask a similar question from me when you asked what I would ommit from its 200 million budget?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I do want to see Wish. I never said I did not. Original stories are something I want to see more of again from Disney. I know they don't have to cost 200 million dollars in present market animated or not. I was unpacking your dicculty understanding why people would be happy and care about when things that they like do well, or be satisfied when diminished returns cause a company to make a different product or new direction.

It hasn't come out yet, so I guess we'll see how well it does. If it's not great, it honestly doesn't bother me if it doesn't do well. Either way, I still don't understand the comparison with the profitability of a low budget horror film to suggest Disney has lost its way. If Disney is going to keep making new classics, chasing that model does not seem the way to go even if not every film hits like a Moana or Frozen.

To the second part of your latest post, than why the heck would you fairly ask a similar question from me when you asked what I would ommit from its 200 million budget?

Because you also don't know how that number has been calculated. Neither of us know if it's reasonable or not for a film like Wish to cost that much and what cutting the budget would have meant in terms of quality. We also don't know whether things like the development of software that will be used on subsequent films has been folded into that budget or if it was all spent on lobster and caviar lunches.

 

[networkpro]

They used to do that for every film. It's only relatively recently they have taken their time to have meet-and-greets or walk around characters for their films, if they have them at all.

I mean the lovely smiling faces are always a treat, but who exactly are they, and whats their story will be what most guests will be asking ?

 

[celluloid]

It hasn't come out yet, so I guess we'll see how well it does. If it's not great, it honestly doesn't bother me if it doesn't do well. Either way, I still don't understand the comparison with the profitability of a low budget horror film to suggest Disney has lost its way. If Disney is going to keep making new classics, chasing that model

Because you also don't know how that number has been calculated. Neither of us know if it's reasonable or not for a film like Wish to cost that much and what cutting the budget would have meant in terms of quality. We also don't know whether things like the development of software that will be used on subsequent films has been folded into that budget or if it was all spent on lobster and caviar lunches.

I never claimed Disney should chase that model. I have yet to see anyone else say that.
We do know their current model is not working so well.

Your second paragraph points out a false dichotomy. You can know someone overpaid without knowing itemized budget lists.
Now you are resorting to Disney maybe spent money on new animation tech? Malarkey, if they had, we would have heard about it by now, and the film would probably look quite different or animators would be on strike referencing it.
Your argument is getting desperate.

 

[TP2000]

You know what? I’m getting sick and tired of people on X.com formerly known as Twitter want to boycott Wish and suggested it’ll flop which I know that opening to 50 million at the box office is not that bad.

That's a thing now?

On X formerly known as Twitter (God, I hope that phrase never dies and it just stays that way forever!) people are talking about boycotting Wish? Why? Under what pretense? We hardly know anything about it except for the cute goat.

In related news, anytime I turned on YouTube this weekend I was getting commercials for Wish. Disney is really pushing it, even for old bachelors who are just trying to watch Winston Churchill documentaries or nerdy updates on which US Navy aircraft carrier groups have been positioned off the coast of Israel now. I certainly can't be in the demographic for Wish, and I have no intention of seeing it, but I'm still getting constant commercials for it on YouTube. Hmm....

 

[BrianLo]

I never claimed Disney should chase that model. I have yet to see anyone else say that.
We do know their current model is not working so well.

Your second paragraph points out a false dichotomy. You can know someone overpaid without knowing itemized budget lists.
Now you are resorting to Disney maybe spent money on new animation tech? Malarkey, if they had, we would have heard about it by now, and the film would probably look quite different or animators would be on strike referencing it.
Your argument is getting desperate.

We did hear about it. Wish is using a new blended 2D/3D technique.

Wish’s budget is pretty standard though for all of Disney’s recent animated output. Its cost isn’t that unusual for WDAS, though perhaps a bit higher than it should be perhaps due to the new tech spending or pandemic related costs.

 

[BrianLo]

Could you define your term for apparent fans? Are you only a fan of if you are excited about every product and want more of everything a company produces? Can you not be a fan but still point out business disappointments, even if you still enjoyed the product?

I would use the sports analogy that you could certainly want to see your team lose to learn something and maybe better themselves. An apparent fan though wouldn’t be upset if they started a winning streak or would want their team shuttered. I would call that maybe a lapsed or previous fan - or I guess ‘apparent fan’.

Similarly there was some people unhappy when Elemental began to be reframed as successful by the company (despite literally checking off all the boxes fans want from the company), or some calling for Pixars’ closure. I don’t think either of those stances makes one an actual fan of Pixar.

 

[BrianLo]

For the sake of the point, let's say you really liked tangled, but did not like Frozen or Frozen 2. You did not love Moana either, but their success gave Wish the greenlight. That is why as a fan should have some care about box office.

Sorry not meaning to target you but I’m late to the conversation and I actually like a lot of your broader points.

Tangled is an interesting one because it actually was not successful and did have a bloated budget (you don’t even need to adjust it for inflation, it was massive because of the 3D tech rolled in). Its box office is a middling amount that Wish may very well match if projections hold.

Yet Tangled allowed for Frozen and Moana. It’s certainly treated as successful by the company and enjoys a long life beyond its box office. It’s getting a ride next year in Tokyo and another (albeit small one) in Paris a year or two later.

Tangled is not by any means a ‘gold standard’ movie, but it goes to show that when it comes to Disney, sometimes the barometer of success is not always in the initial opening weekend projection. Of course they want all of it, but one too many obituaries are being written for some of these movies these days. Elemental of course being this years example.

 

[celluloid]

Sorry not meaning to target you but I’m late to the conversation and I actually like a lot of your broader points.

Tangled is an interesting one because it actually was not successful and did have a bloated budget (you don’t even need to adjust it for inflation, it was massive because of the 3D tech rolled in). Its box office is a middling amount that Wish may very well match if projections hold.

Yet Tangled allowed for Frozen and Moana. It’s certainly treated as successful by the company and enjoys a long life beyond its box office. It’s getting a ride next year in Tokyo and another (albeit small one) in Paris a year or two later.

Tangled is not by any means a ‘gold standard’ movie, but it goes to show that when it comes to Disney, sometimes the barometer of success is not always in the initial opening weekend projection. Of course they want all of it, but one too many obituaries are being written for some of these movies these days. Elemental of course being this years example.

Just to clarify too. 2010 as very different than now in media sense. Netflix streaming had only been around for two and a half years and laptops were really the main place to watch. Phones and tablets not the norm for anyone, let alone kids. Also to get facts straight Tangled's budget has been reportedly so high becuase it came from scrapped versions that were originally going to be animated in different ways. It was not just due to the 3D tech. In reality it should have been much lower but the film was in development since 2001 and changed drastically in 2005. Tangled was at the end of the hard media era. It was able to earn 170 million dollars domestically in dvd sales alone. Streaming just has not earned that kind of support yet. Competition in 2010 was also incredibly fierce with the animation and family blockbuster pop culture world. Harry Potter, Despicable Me, Shrek and How to Train your Dragon, Iron Man 2, were all contenders that outperformed and many others right below it.

Cultural impact definitely plays a part. Maybe Wish will awaken Sleeping Beauty Again in the sense that once again, Animation and original as can be storytelling save studio from its weak points.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Your second paragraph points out a false dichotomy. You can know someone overpaid without knowing itemized budget lists.
Now you are resorting to Disney maybe spent money on new animation tech? Malarkey, if they had, we would have heard about it by now, and the film would probably look quite different or animators would be on strike referencing it.
Your argument is getting desperate.

I think it is important if you're going to call for them to cut budgets to know what that means in practice. For example, does it mean not trying to develop new techniques such as the blended 2D/3D style @BrianLo mentioned or the ability to animate the flames and water on the characters in Elemental? Does it mean outsourcing animation to a cheaper studio? Some have suggested effectively shuttering Pixar and folding it into WDFA, which would certainly cut the associated admin costs folded into the films' budgets.

Just saying a film cost too much and I know because I know doesn't really lead us anywhere. My personal sense of the issue comes back to whether Disney/Pixar films just cost more because they take bigger swings that don't always pay off, but when they do they create classic films that keep earning the company money for decades. At least for a lot of us, that is what distinguished Disney and why we became fans rather than because we admired the short-term profit they earned on each release.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think it is important if you're going to call for them to cut budgets to know what that means in practice. For example, does it mean not trying to develop new techniques such as the blended 2D/3D style @BrianLo mentioned or the ability to animate the flames and water on the characters in Elemental? Does it mean outsourcing animation to a cheaper studio? Some have suggested effectively shuttering Pixar and folding it into WDFA, which would certainly cut the associated admin costs folded into the films' budgets.

Just saying a film cost too much and I know because I know doesn't really lead us anywhere. My personal sense of the issue comes back to whether Disney/Pixar films just cost more because they take bigger swings that don't always pay off, but when they do they create classic films that keep earning the company money for decades. At least for a lot of us, that is what distinguished Disney and why we became fans rather than because we admired the short-term profit they earned on each release.

The predominate reason “It all started with a mouse” is because production costs were too high. Walt went to meet with Mintz in New York to work out a new contract, one Walt refused because Mintz wanted cuts to Disney’s costs which resulted in Mintz cutting out the Disneys who he saw as useless middlemen. This was about a year after Mintz had ended the Alice Comedies, also over their high production costs.

And isn’t amazing how so much concern comes from people who have only just started to learn about this? It’s such an amazing coincidence yet again.

The problem isn’t what the money is spent on, is the perceived grievances of who the money is spent on.

 

[Farerb]

You know what? I’m getting sick and tired of people on X.com formerly known as Twitter want to boycott Wish and suggested it’ll flop which I know that opening to 50 million at the box office is not that bad. This whole internet is just getting sad! I don’t what I should blame, but sometimes on the internet makes me nervous about the real box office results of Wish. I know Disney is not going to be bankrupt and shutdown, but everybody is making me nervous about it!

Twitter is not real life. Wish will be fine.

 

[aladdin2007]

I will say the merch on shopdisney for this film is not at all exciting and a letdown, is there any in the parks? The new commercial running on tv is even worse, about 12 seconds of nothing, doesn't show or tell anything good, no music zilch not even the goat. Makes it look like a useless cartoon. That's not going to help get rumps in the theater seats. They have something pretty grand here with this film and they could be touting it as such but the promotion is bad, started out good before November, don't know what happened.

 

[Phroobar]

I will say the merch on shopdisney for this film is not at all exciting and a letdown, is there any in the parks? The new commercial running on tv is even worse, about 12 seconds of nothing, doesn't show or tell anything good, no music zilch not even the goat. Makes it look like a useless cartoon. That's not going to help get rumps in the theater seats. They have something pretty grand here with this film and they could be touting it as such but the promotion is bad, started out good before November, don't know what happened.

Thirty seconds of Asha making faces. So adorkable.

 

[DCBaker]

Listen to a teaser from the next song to be released, I'm a Star, below.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I will say the merch on shopdisney for this film is not at all exciting and a letdown, is there any in the parks? The new commercial running on tv is even worse, about 12 seconds of nothing, doesn't show or tell anything good, no music zilch not even the goat. Makes it look like a useless cartoon. That's not going to help get rumps in the theater seats. They have something pretty grand here with this film and they could be touting it as such but the promotion is bad, started out good before November, don't know what happened.

Wish will be a blockbuster smash hit in the theaters.

 

[Miss Rori]

Why do the lyrics and dialogue from these preview clips keep coming off like a Pureflix version of Shrek? It doesn't really sell the "This is a tribute to the classic Disney fairy tale movies!" vibe.

 

[McMickeyWorld]