The filmmakers claim the thinking behind "At All Costs" was to show that Asha and Magnifico weren't that dissimilar in wanting to protect the wishes and the happiness of the people of Rosas; that ultimately they differed on what was the best way to do that. Magnifico figured it was better to lock them up, not grant the vaguer ones, and mindwipe people so they wouldn't get upset about it (which also granted him control over people he didn't want to lose), Asha figured it was best to let people have them for themselves and try to realize them, and fix whatever problems might arise from that. But still, either way both characters think they know what's best for everybody else. They don't stop to consider what anybody else wants, and even endanger friends and loved ones in the process. They even try to incite others to turn on their opponent; neither thinks to try and compromise (what if Asha came forward right away with Star and everybody tried to figure out what it meant and to do with it?). So...why exactly is Asha the one with moral high ground?
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Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
I think the idea of Wish wasn't "everyone should get what they want" but more about the importance of having dreams and being allowed to work toward them. I think they were trying to go with the idea that a wish is part of your soul, but they didn't communicate it clearly enough as many people clearly got the wrong idea with the "Magnifico was right" sentiment.
Well, I believe it's implied other apprentice wannabes never got that far as to know how things actually worked. Which leads to a bigger question some have brought up: What was the point of Magnifico wanting an apprentice when he didn't intend anybody else to know/use magic? If it was just to do odd jobs for him, well, he already has servants for that.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
A lot of the world building doesn't make a lot of sense, which is a problem when the main conflict is about how said world operates and how it should be this instead...
Yeah, I think part of the problem was that a lot of casual viewers didn't see the wishes, really goals, depicted as the kind of things that are absolutely central to a person's being. Looked at through that lens many seemed ridiculously simple or petty (a nanny for their kids? Hugging their son? Making dresses?). And there just wasn't enough misery depicted among the people - most of them seemed happy enough, and even finding other things to do with their lives. I don't recall who suggested it, but what if, say, a wish being crushed killed that person? That would raise the stakes plenty!
One of the tie-in books, A Recipe for Adventure, was told from Dahlia's point of view. That's one of the few places to learn what Sakina's wish was...which was "see my daughter glow". And what does Dahlia want? To be a great baker like her grandmother was. If a young woman with a lame leg doesn't see any need to perhaps have it magically cured in a medieval kingdom, then that's a pretty great and accepting medieval kingdom!
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
It also doesn't make much sense, though, that Magnifico sets up a kingdom with these very transparent rules and opens it up to those who want to join, people agree to move there under these rules and enjoy the benefits, and then lock him in a magic mirror for all eternity because they suddenly decide they don't like the rules anymore.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The movie would have made way more sense if Magnifico stole wishes without his subjects knowledge, instead of having people give them to him willingly in a public ceremony.
WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
Something I think is very important and never see brought up is that Magnifico specifically has a line about the people who come to Roxas failing to achieve their wishes and coming there because of that.
"You're completely missing the point; people come here because they know they cannot make their own dreams come true. The journey's too hard, it's too unfair..."
It gives the impression people did try and work towards them, it didn't work out, so they decided to apply for the Magnifico lottery. Which is way different from just never trying. Sure, "don't give up" is a nice moral, but it definitely doesn't help make Magnifico look evil.
"You're completely missing the point; people come here because they know they cannot make their own dreams come true. The journey's too hard, it's too unfair..."
It gives the impression people did try and work towards them, it didn't work out, so they decided to apply for the Magnifico lottery. Which is way different from just never trying. Sure, "don't give up" is a nice moral, but it definitely doesn't help make Magnifico look evil.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
This is what is so strange about the film: the filmmakers seem to go out of their way to justify Magnifico's actions.
On the one hand, the process is entirely transparent: the wishes are given and granted in public ceremonies, so anyone who wants to can figure out the odds of a wish being granted.
On the other, no-one is forced to go there and indeed it is made clear people chose to move there because Rosas was so much better than where they had been before. So, maybe there is no guarantee of your deepest wish being granted, but at least you'll have a good life and maybe you even have a better chance of it being granted than before. All of that raises the question of what's going to happen when the whole system collapses at the end of the movie in what is supposed to be a happy ending.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I guess the big crime is that the lottery is rigged, and not truly random, and the main protagonist knows someone who won't have their wish granted.
Which sucks, but I think most people wouldn't incite a revolution over it. Asha's relatives get over the news pretty easily.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Presumably, everything will work out because the queen is nice, and nobody has any truly objectionable wishes or desires.
That's a great point. I guess the idea there is that they should "just keep wishing", i.e. keep trying anyway rather than give up (and place it in another's hands) or never try at all, which does seem to be the case for some residents given how simple the wishes get. But it's not a great message to encourage kids to just keep trying and failing and not consider that some ambitions may simply not be "meant" to be, or that there are all sorts of paths a person can take in life and find satisfaction in.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
As I understood it, the people of Rosas were giving up part of their consciousness and soul, which seems a price not worth paying no matter how superficially well you get to live as a result. The stakes made sense to me.
Bilge Ebiri in his review for Vulture noted that Magnifico would have had a much easier time of it if he just granted everybody's wishes and used his powers to ensure the riskier ones would be realized in ways that wouldn't threaten his power!Presumably, everything will work out because the queen is nice, and nobody has any truly objectionable wishes or desires.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
Where that didn't make sense to me is that they actively chose to move to Rosas based on that premise. In other words, there was no deception involved as far as I could tell.
I also think they portrayed the wishes in a way that made them seem like things most people want to but can't do in their lives presently. I suppose that raises the philosophical question of whether it's better to know you desire to do something but can't than to will that desire to some kind of higher power to judge whether it is feasible and only find out about that desire if they judge that it is. As an audience member, though, it's hard not to think they're all in for a rude awakening when they figure out they can't all be singers, aviators, astronauts, etc.
WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
Surely they know, though, right? Everyone has to know he handpicks? He's very open about "I have been challenged to take a risk today...", no one seems confused by that. Asha seems convinced she can nudge him towards her grandfather's and he says that's happened before.
Then again the people seem to be idiots (he grants twelve annually and they're shocked not all of them will be granted, not to mention some really dumb wishes), so maybe they actually didn't notice.
(And I'd say that's another note in Magnifico's inexplicably sympathetic characterization; everyone constantly wants wishes from the guy already giving them a utopia, even when he's clearly trying to handle something else, and either people regularly get close to him solely to ask for things or the writers accidentally gave that impression.)
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
Indeed! It's so strange how Magnifico seems pretty reasonable and put-upon, but the people of Rosas seem kind of stupid in their ability to comprehend basic facts and also very needy.
Again, a lot of strange choices made by the filmmakers!
Farerb
Well-Known Member
I'd just like to point out that it's such a cop out to defeat a villain by singing a song. I don't recall any previous Disney villain defeated that way, that's something out of a TV show.
In the end Wish doesn't have the gravitas that films like the 90s films had. It's also interesting to note that societies in the 90s films such as BatB, Aladdin, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan were flawed while in recent films like Strange World and Wish everyone is happy, everyone is good.
In the end Wish doesn't have the gravitas that films like the 90s films had. It's also interesting to note that societies in the 90s films such as BatB, Aladdin, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan were flawed while in recent films like Strange World and Wish everyone is happy, everyone is good.
Well, at least that was set up with the "we are stars" thing. But yeah, when I read up on the plot in advance via one of the tie-ins, I was shocked that they went with that. I know the idea is that it's the ironic payoff of Magnifico fearing Sabino would cause a revolution with a song - though, again, that begs the question of why Sabino doesn't lead the crowd in it, or even be the one who replies to Asha (rather than Dahlia). It's also a nonviolent way to dispose of a bad guy since they wanted a "classic" villain who is defeated instead of redeemed/forgiven (some have pointed out that his backstory is pretty much the same as Abuela Alma's, and she did much more obvious damage to others...), but they didn't want blood on the heroine's hands or have to resort to a falling death.
The idea of the people rising up against Magnifico would be more inspiring if the bulk of them didn't sincerely believe until 5 minutes beforehand that Asha was their enemy. They're really just trying to save their own skins from a suddenly evil monarch - they didn't have any problem with him until then, aside from being newly curious about the wish system. Nobody even asks afterward why he suddenly changed! It's not really putting forward a message about banding together to change the world, because this isn't how things change in real life. People don't get the opportunity to suddenly and decisively realize en masse that they're being deceived and mistreated because a villain abruptly decides to start binding people in magical bolts after years of peaceful and (mostly) benevolent rule. This also plays into why so many people were disappointed in Amaya's character arc - she knew Magnifico better than anybody and didn't object to anything he did, aside from warning him not to use the book; only after he personally threatened her did she consider changing things. And yet, despite her being complicit in his actions all those years, and having no guilt or sorrow over what becomes of him over a few bad days, everybody thinks she'll be a great queen!
Also, having everybody wish away the villain plays into the issue of events sending the opposite message to the one the film is trying to send. ("You are inherently magical so all you have to do is wish hard enough to get what you want!")
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And it seems like in early development (see the storyboard reels on the Blu-Ray, etc.), something similar was at play; people happily moved to Rosas unaware that Magnifico might consume their wishes for his own power rather than grant them depending on his whim, and those who realized the truth (such as Asha's family) fled into hiding in the woods to protect their wishes from him. Asha's character arc, basically, was that she was tired of living in exile and wanted to fight him and liberate the people, welcoming the danger if it would serve a greater good, but she didn't have the means to do so until Star responded to her wish.