LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I missed that post; would you share it again? I for one would love to talk about something other than its box-office performance.
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Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
That and how no one even here cares about discussing the deleted material I posted the links to, which continue to suggest a potentially more interesting and logical storyline than what the filmmakers felt people would respond to. Why would you cut the payoff of Asha getting Sabino's wish back but keep stuff like breakdancing chickens?
In an earlier version of the storyline, people like Asha's family lived in hiding from Magnifico to protect their wishes and Sabino died midway through:
Exclusive: Watch a Deleted Scene From ‘Wish’ That Almost Changed The Entire Movie
Thought you knew everything about Disney's latest flick? Think again!
www.cosmopolitan.com
A chase scene involving the evil Amaya and her pet cat Charo:
Sabino's performance of "A Wish Worth Making". For some reason the filmmakers won't say why this was cut:
Exclusive: Watch 'Wish' star Victor Garber's deleted Disney song 'A Wish Worth Making'
Disney's animated musical "Wish" deleted one of its songs from the final cut, but we've got the debut of the deleted tune featuring Victor Garber.
www.usatoday.com
Alternative version of the first stretch of the climax:
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
In an earlier version of the storyline, people like Asha's family lived in hiding from Magnifico to protect their wishes and Sabino died midway through:
Exclusive: Watch a Deleted Scene From ‘Wish’ That Almost Changed The Entire Movie
Thought you knew everything about Disney's latest flick? Think again!
A chase scene involving the evil Amaya and her pet cat Charo:
Sabino's performance of "A Wish Worth Making". For some reason the filmmakers won't say why this was cut:
Exclusive: Watch 'Wish' star Victor Garber's deleted Disney song 'A Wish Worth Making'
Disney's animated musical "Wish" deleted one of its songs from the final cut, but we've got the debut of the deleted tune featuring Victor Garber.www.usatoday.com
Alternative version of the first stretch of the climax:
Thanks!
I am intrigued by the first clip and think the idea of a hidden village of rebels could have worked well. The story they eventually went with, whereby everyone loves Magnifico until Asha sees his true nature, is perhaps less complex and interesting.
As for the other two clips, I’m glad those ideas were tossed. I’m a big fan of Star in his final (silent and adorable) form, and I enjoyed seeing Amaya emerge as an opponent to her husband. The climax in the film was much more effective and moving than the rather silly alternative involving Valentino. They definitely made the right call there.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I feel fairly similarly. The first clip sets up an interesting alternative that suggests a clearer idea of a people oppressed by a charismatic dictator.
As for the others, I did think the chase sequence seemed fun in part because it reminded me of the "yay, I'm a llama again!" sequence from Emperor's New Groove. I can see why they cut it went in a different direction with Star. That said, I am kind of intrigued by idea of the 'star' talking rather than Valentino as I don't think Valentino really worked all that well as a comedic sidekick and may have been more appealing if he was an animal sidekick of the Meeko kind who didn't speak. I actually found Amaya's very quick disavowal of her husband and then taking his place on the throne a bit odd in the film, so it personally may have made more sense to me if they remained on the same team throughout the film.
I didn't think Sabino's song really added anything. Honestly, if that was the climactic/moving moment where we saw him getting a wish that required the destruction of the whole kingdom, I think more people would have been wondering whether it was really all worth it!
I can also see why they didn't play the ending with that comedic note. Again, though, maybe it would have made the character of Valentino more compelling if he did something so brave and noteworthy to save Asha and the people of Rosas rather than just making the odd quip.
That is a good point; it's not much of a song. My suspicion is that test audiences were bored and no one could justify keeping it under those circumstances.
Someone at TV Tropes noted that the movie fundamentally gets its premise wrong because it's about goals, not wishes. As generally understood, a goal is something a person can work towards on their own (though help is welcomed); a wish is reliant on outside forces stepping in for the person. My theory as to why they didn't go with having the wishes be actual wishes is that nowadays, the conventional morality plays of actual fairy tales are seen as too passive -- the central character can't really do anything but be a good person and hope "fate is kind" -- and sadly, that's not the way the real world works; that's what makes these stories fantasy and wish fulfillment. Being virtuous against all odds is seen as boring and unrealistic (it's why even Disney these days often pokes fun at the older princess characters in media such as Ralph Breaks the Internet, and why so many filmmakers haven't been able to get a hand on Superman as a character) and especially in the U.S. where the American dream is about bootstraps and all that, self-actualization is seen as more dramatically interesting. In a sense this movie was trying to have it both ways.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
It's also a fairly decent movie. I think Wish is underwhelming as Disney's 100th anniversary film and didn't deserve an Oscar, but it's not bad. It's entertaining enough and should please the kids at home. But it could have and should have been much better.
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DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
That’s an interesting analysis, although personally I think the difference between a goal and a wish, in US pop culture, has more to do with scope and depth than autonomy. Some Disney movies feature a fairly classic Hero’s Journey, some feature a damsel in distress waiting to be swept off her feet. There’s a sizable difference in volition between Moana and Sleeping Beauty, but I think both would be recognized as having a “dream” or a “wish”. I think the difference is that a wish/dream has a more transcendent quality or a self-actualization arc when compared to a goal. Many of the “wishes” in Wish did seem more like goals than wishes in that sense, although that may have been because we didn’t have time to get to know the characters who were making a wish. Wanting to fly, for example, could have transcendent themes… or it could be no more deep than the last time you booked a work flight to a super boring meeting. With no backstory or context the viewer just doesn’t know.
Advisable Joseph
Active Member
Comment from one of the artists on Reddit:
- It's supposed to be simple: "We made a gentle, simple film, as a tribute to simpler structured films like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty, rather than the more complex structures of our recent films."
- It's not cynical; the massive storm of references came from the artists: "We put a lot of love into it, each “easter egg” added by individual artists to pay tribute to something that inspired them to become an artist. ... Each one was a thank-you to Walt and his artists for continuing to inspire us....It’s an un-cynical film about, honestly, what inspires us."
- The wishes are goals: "I agree that the film is about not granting wishes, but holding them in your heart to motivate you to be the best version of yourself."
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I wonder whether this idea is what led to them being ambivalent about Magnifico giving the people of Rosas some free choice regarding whether to give up their wishes/goals rather than having no choice. Perhaps, as @Miss Rori suggests, they wanted to emphasise the notion of agency in terms of holding on to your wishes and letting them inspire you to work toward your dreams rather than leaving them to fate or some other force.
The problem is that they also wanted a classic Disney villain, so if he wasn't forcing the people to do anything against their will or being especially deceitful about granting wishes, they basically just had to turn him evil at some point to clarify the stakes.
Farerb
Active Member
I really don't think the people who work at Disney today understand Walt's films, or they don't understand anything about fairytale if what they still do is trying to "deconstruct" them (I'm not surprised because Frozen is the same).
"our dreams can come true, not courtesy a star or a wizard, but only if we work hard enough to achieve them" but that's neither Walt nor his film. Fairytales aren't meant to be taken literally, they're about symbolism.
"our dreams can come true, not courtesy a star or a wizard, but only if we work hard enough to achieve them" but that's neither Walt nor his film. Fairytales aren't meant to be taken literally, they're about symbolism.
WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
No one in a Disney movie has ever wished on a star and had their life fixed with no effort. The original "wishing on a star", in Pinocchio, is the INCITING INCIDENT that leads to a ton of horrifying crap and only happens to begin with because the wisher was a hardworking, good person.
Geppetto's dreams had the chance to come true because he worked hard bringing joy to people his whole life and only actually came true because Pinocchio proved he was a good person and got himself killed trying to save Geppetto's life. The former is explicitly said early in the film when the Blue Fairy first appears, the latter is the plot and is also explained at least twice by the Blue Fairy. This is not something you need to dig for; the film isn't subtle about it.
Similarly, Cinderella and Snow White have their wishes/dreams but only have things work out in their favor because they maintain positive attitudes through years of unfair adversity and subsequently help and win over nearby characters who end up helping them in their time of need. It's not spelled out multiple times like in Pinocchio, but it's still what happens and it's not an accident that it happens that way.
I'm sick of hearing about "your wishes won't instantly come true! Wishing on stars doesn't work!". Yeah, no crap. No one said that was how it worked.
Agreed. And there's a subsequent disconnect between "we tried to make..." and "we actually made...".
Geppetto's dreams had the chance to come true because he worked hard bringing joy to people his whole life and only actually came true because Pinocchio proved he was a good person and got himself killed trying to save Geppetto's life. The former is explicitly said early in the film when the Blue Fairy first appears, the latter is the plot and is also explained at least twice by the Blue Fairy. This is not something you need to dig for; the film isn't subtle about it.
Similarly, Cinderella and Snow White have their wishes/dreams but only have things work out in their favor because they maintain positive attitudes through years of unfair adversity and subsequently help and win over nearby characters who end up helping them in their time of need. It's not spelled out multiple times like in Pinocchio, but it's still what happens and it's not an accident that it happens that way.
I'm sick of hearing about "your wishes won't instantly come true! Wishing on stars doesn't work!". Yeah, no crap. No one said that was how it worked.
Agreed. And there's a subsequent disconnect between "we tried to make..." and "we actually made...".
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Yeah, I just got the sense reading the tie-in stuff that they wanted to have things both ways. Like "our dreams can come true, not courtesy a star or a wizard" doesn't work when Asha is given a wand at the end. What's she supposed to use it for if everyone is expected to actualize their own wishes?
It's also odd how everybody was focused on putting in throwaway references, or ones that contradicted the intent of the story (i.e. Asha getting the wand) to other Disney stuff but decided to leave out a lot of truly dramatic tropes many classic Disney animations used -- no romance, no villain's sidekick, a battle to the death, etc. -- in favor of a story that for so many people had no real stakes. (Oh no, people might not have their wishes come true!...Do we know these people? Do they actually deserve to see their wishes realized? They weren't willing to try on their own before...)
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
Indeed.
The more I think about that animator's post, the more I feel that they were kind of hamstrung by the idea that this film was an homage to Disney animation. Instead of just developing the story and characters according to the sensibilities of the writers and animators, it seems like working in all the references and classic Disney tropes led to them undercutting the story they were trying to tell and vice versa.
Again, the film is not terrible by any means. Hopefully, though, they learn from whatever went wrong in the creative process.
Why on earth would these questions matter? They're human beings. Of course they deserve to see their wishes realized. We all do.
On the villain front, there's something that occurred to me much later, although I might just not be remembering a key detail. Residents of Rosas surrender their wish to Magnifico for safe-keeping/granting either when they turn 18 or when they emigrate to Rosas. Asha's grandfather was turning 100. Just how long has Magnifico been in power? Just how long has he been that handsome?
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
The world should be happy my wishes don’t come true when I’m driving and surrounded by idiots
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you were joking or not but there would of course be all sorts of problems with that, unless there were lots of stipulations on the wishes (can’t harm anyone else or the environment, can’t conflict with someone else’s wish like two different people wishing they could be the best at something, can’t take away from the autonomy of others like wishing to be a ruler or for a specific person to fall in love with you…)
But I don’t actually think that matters in terms of the movie. I think you can have some gaps in logic as long as the “big” elements work and appeal to people. The music, the action, the emotional hooks, the appeal of the characters. How did Elsa go from creating ice to creating life with Olaf? What kind of kingdom was Beast running that no one noticed he disappeared for years or even remembered there was a prince? What’s up with that zombie cat at the end of Soul whose soul was seen going to the afterlife?
Sometimes you shrug and say it’s just a movie. When people can’t put their finger on why something didn’t feel epic, though, they look for reasons and pick apart the plot, assuming that’s why they didn’t like it. That’s my theory anyways. I think we as viewers are rarely good judges of why we did or didn’t like something.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I honestly thought Magnifico's backstory would be that he wasn't powerful or handsome, until magic made him so.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Amazing how many bad online takes of Disney movies from 10+ years ago have shaped the official Disney product.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
The movie ended up being exaclty what coach Riley told Gordon Bombay in the mighty ducks:
“You’re worse than a has been…you’re a never was”
“You’re worse than a has been…you’re a never was”