Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[TP2000]

Well it looks like I have all the proof I needed that there are people here with an agenda

An agenda to try and get Disney to make movies that make at least a small profit at the box office again?

You must have realized that Wish is Disney's tenth (10!) flop at the box office this year. In just one year, one after another. Disney's various studio divisions are about to lose $1 Billion in just one year; 2023.

Meanwhile, there's no night parade at WDW or Disneyland, there's no new rides under construction at any Disney park in the USA, the Hyperion Theatre is sitting dark indefinitely, and they're charging $20 bucks for Lightning Lane for 40 year old rides.

My agenda is for Disney to fire almost all of their senior studio executives, fix the parks, and save the company from implosion.

 

[LittleBuford]

I mean, you’re defending a guy who has a rendition of Hitler’s white supremacist 1488 quote as his signature, which strangely enough, @wdwmagic has no problem with. Edgy 4chan memes aside, it’s pretty obvious what his deal is and what he’s pushing.

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Thank you for pointing this out (though the quote being riffed on isn’t Hitler’s). I don’t see signatures on my mobile.

 

[Consumer]

Wish features a made-up kingdom and a made-up culture. The Kingdom of Rosas is supposed to be an island where immigrants travel from all over the world.

Every other Disney animated film set in Europe featured an almost entirely white cast. Look at Tangled, Frozen or — more recently — Luca as examples.

And every non-white film features an entirely non-white cast.

All I'm asking for is equality.

The Little Mermaid was set in the Caribbean which made Halle Bailey’s casting perfect. And yet people objected.

I would leave it up to Disney to decide who to cast in Moana. Generally, in this country white people have never had a problem being cast in movie roles, even when portraying non-white characters. It’s not until the tables were turned that it’s become a problem.

That only proves my point.

I object to white people being cast as non-white roles so your what-about-ism won't work here.

So... you're all going to equate "European" with "White," eh? And then argue "European culture" is being cancelled.

Wow.

Even though Disney recently made Frozen. About a very White European culture.

You're all sad. And ignorant of history and culture. Take a Western Civ course.

Wish is set south of the Iberian peninsula (that's Spain and Portugal). The Mediterranean basin is a melting pot of various cultures with varying skin colors. There were Moors in Spain and Italy. The Southern tribes of Europe clearly had people who were brown in hue... Italians, Greeks, Spaniard, etc... Thanks to the Hellenistic and Roman Empires, it was truly a melting pot of people with varying skin colors.

I teach Western Civilization and geography, but thanks for being so condescending (that's when you talk down to somebody because you think you're better).

And are we really discussing the color of people's skins? Because that's how you're defining 'race'... which actually doesn't exist genetically. "Race" was made up to justify slavery.

That's... not true. Race-based slavery began because African kings sold their own people. The modern idea of race comes from Darwin, who believed some "races" were more evolved than other races.

 

[LittleBuford]

Our resident defenders of “European culture” should be informed that medieval Europe included Muslim Spain, many of whose inhabitants were not white. (It’s worth noting also that the architecture of Rosas references that of Islamic Spain and North Africa.)

 

[mickEblu]

So... you're all going to equate "European" with "White," eh? And then argue "European culture" is being cancelled.

Wow.

Even though Disney recently made Frozen. About a very White European culture.

You're all sad. And ignorant of history and culture. Take a Western Civ course.

Wish is set south of the Iberian peninsula (that's Spain and Portugal). The Mediterranean basin is a melting pot of various cultures with varying skin colors. There were Moors in Spain and Italy. The Southern tribes of Europe clearly had people who were brown in hue... Italians, Greeks, Spaniard, etc... Thanks to the Hellenistic and Roman Empires, it was truly a melting pot of people with varying skin colors.

And are we really discussing the color of people's skins? Because that's how you're defining 'race'... which actually doesn't exist genetically. "Race" was made up to justify slavery.

Anyway, Wish begins by narrating how Rosas includes people from all lands. It's not Northern Europe.

Frozen was made before DEI was a thing. Take a look at the difference with the cast in Frozen vs Frozen 2. Yes the Iberian Peninsula and yet notice how only the villain and the Queen look like they’re from that area of the world? In days past, the heroine in this movie would look a lot more like Elena of Avalor. Not a 1/2 black 1/2 White girl.

So you disagree with the examples provided then? Forget the history lesson. Respond to the post where I provide my examples and tell me why I’m wrong? Compare how they approach Encanto, Wish and Raya to Frozen 2 and Wish.

Lastly do you think the DEI department has anything at all to do with Disneys lackluster performance at the box office the last few years?

 

[LittleBuford]

It’s not until the tables were turned that it’s become a problem.

And let’s be clear here: the tables haven’t actually turned. It’s not as if white actors now find themselves in the same position as actors of colours were in the past.

 

[Consumer]

Our resident defenders of “European culture” should be informed that medieval Europe included Muslim Spain, many of whose inhabitants were not white. (It’s worth noting also that the architecture of Rosas references that of Islamic Spain and North Africa.)

Actually, it didn't. Although the Caliphate of Cordoba was on the Iberian peninsula, the identity of Medieval Europe was defined by being the torch bearers of Christianity and Greco-Roman philosophy. To say Cordoba was European would be as inaccurate as saying Turkey is European, even though both share land on the continent we call Europe.

And let’s be clear here: the tables haven’t actually turned. It’s not as if white actors now find themselves in the same position as actors of colours were in the past.

You want Disney to sacrifice stories for perceived real world equity. This is why these movies bomb.

 

[Chi84]

I object to white people being cast as non-white roles so your what-about-ism won't work here.

And yet

What has Disney done to make you say it’s mistreating European culture or being racist?

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[LittleBuford]

Europe = white and Christian. Got it.

This place has really sunk low. I hope the doubters catch sight of all this before it’s (hopefully) cleaned up.

 

[FettFan]

Let me get this straight….

Spoiler

The Grandpa had a wish to inspire people with music, and we see in his wish, he’s playing a guitar….yet in his 100 years of living, he never attempted to set aside 20-30 minutes a day to actually learn the guitar?

Instead he WISHES to play the guitar and turns that Wish over to the king in the slim hopes he might be one of the twelve each year who actually gets a Wish granted?

I’m siding with the evil king on this one.
Old fart wasted his life in the hopes of a quick fix.

 

[Consumer]

Europe = white and Christian. Got it.

This place has really sunk low. I hope the doubters catch sight of all this before it’s (hopefully) cleaned up.

Medieval Europe was known as Christendom. White people come from Europe. The fact this makes you angry says a lot more about you than it does anyone else.

And yet

I provided examples of Disney disrespecting, erasing, and replacing European culture. What about my post was incorrect or contradictory to what I said?

 

[celluloid]

Europe = white and Christian. Got it.

Europe has a lot of religion and culture...but also
Where else did white Christians first come from?
Europe is more than England, but I mean, that entire culture is based on Sovereign apointed by God rule.

It was not native to the states.

 

[Chi84]

Medieval Europe was known as Christendom. White people come from Europe. The fact this makes you angry says a lot more about you than it does anyone else.

I provided examples of Disney disrespecting, erasing, and replacing European culture. What about my post was incorrect or contradictory to what I said?

How did Halle Bailey’s casting do that?

 

[Ghost93]

Also, if posters feel alienated by the fact that many modern Disney films don't have white leads, think about how for the first 75+ years of the company's history minorities had almost NO representation in Disney animation.

Before Tiana — who spent most of her movie as a frog — made her debut, Black people had the Muses from Hercules, Joshua Sweet from Atlantis, and Frozone from the Incredibles as their only representation in Disney animated movies. All fairly minor characters.

Before Mulan in 98, Big Hero 6 in 2014 and Raya in 2021, all Asian people had were racist cats.

Indigenous people really only had the racist depictions in Peter Pan and the very problematic telling of the Pocahontas story in the 20th Century. Brother Bear provided some positive representation ... until the main character became a bear. The response to Moana has been mostly positive, however.

And I think before Coco, there wasn't any major Latino characters. No, the Three Caballeros do not count.

 

[Consumer]

How did Halle Bailey’s casting do that?

The Little Mermaid is a Danish fairy tale.

Disney's live action The Little Mermaid is set in the Caribbean.

Would you support Disney taking an African fairy tale and setting it in Germany? Or would you agree that such behavior would be erasing African culture?

Also, if posters feel alienated by the fact that many modern Disney films don't have white leads, think about how for the first 75+ years of the company's history minorities had almost NO representation in Disney animation.

Before Tiana — who spent most of her movie as a frog — made her debut, Black people had the Muses from Hercules, Joshua Sweet from Atlantis, and Frozone from the Incredibles as their only representation in Disney animated movies. All fairly minor characters.

Before Mulan in 98, Big Hero 6 in 2014 and Raya in 2021, all Asian people had were racist cats.

Indigenous people really only had the racist depictions in Peter Pan and the very problematic telling of the Pocahontas story in the 20th Century. Brother Bear provided some positive representation ... until the main character became a bear. The response to Moana has been mostly positive, however.

And I think before Coco, there wasn't any major Latino characters. No, the Three Caballeros do not count.

I've not seen a single person here complain about Disney producing more stories from non-white cultures. In fact, I even said I support that. The criticism is that Disney is taking European cultures and making them non-white.

 

[LittleBuford]

Where else did white Christians first come from?

The Levant and Asia Minor.

 

[mickEblu]

Also, if posters feel alienated by the fact that many modern Disney films don't have white leads, think about how for the first 75+ years of the company's history minorities had almost NO representation in Disney animation.

Before Tiana — who spent most of her movie as a frog — made her debut, Black people had the Muses from Hercules, Joshua Sweet from Atlantis, and Frozone from the Incredibles as their only representation in Disney animated movies. All fairly minor characters.

Before Mulan in 98, Big Hero 6 in 2014 and Raya in 2021, all Asian people had were racist cats.

Indigenous people really only had the racist depictions in Peter Pan and the very problematic telling of the Pocahontas story in the 20th Century. Brother Bear provided some positive representation ... until the main character became a bear. The response to Moana has been mostly positive, however.

And I think before Coco, there wasn't any major Latino characters. No, the Three Caballeros do not count.

The solution is so simple. Prioritize story and quality. Diversity is great. Keep pumping out Cocos, Encantos and PatF’s. But dont do that then ALSO use the European inspired stories or stories set in Europe to be a focus group dream come true. Truth is the folks at the DEI department at Disney suck at their job and just way overshot.

 

[Phroobar]

Also, if posters feel alienated by the fact that many modern Disney films don't have white leads, think about how for the first 75+ years of the company's history minorities had almost NO representation in Disney animation.

Before Tiana — who spent most of her movie as a frog — made her debut, Black people had the Muses from Hercules, Joshua Sweet from Atlantis, and Frozone from the Incredibles as their only representation in Disney animated movies. All fairly minor characters.

Before Mulan in 98, Big Hero 6 in 2014 and Raya in 2021, all Asian people had were racist cats.

Indigenous people really only had the racist depictions in Peter Pan and the very problematic telling of the Pocahontas story in the 20th Century. Brother Bear provided some positive representation ... until the main character became a bear. The response to Moana has been mostly positive, however.

And I think before Coco, there wasn't any major Latino characters. No, the Three Caballeros do not count.

And yet the World kept spinning.

 

[celluloid]

The Levant and Asia Minor.

That depends, are you speaking of race in its archaic form? Or ethnicity? Armenian and Greek?
And they were not all Christian. It is fair to say that majority of "white Christian" as you put it in fact came form Europe. There are no absolutes.

 

[mickEblu]

And yet the World kept spinning.

And the movies were making money. Lol