Wired Feature "Disney's $1 Billion Bet on a Magical Wristband"

[Todd H]

Why can't you still do that? Just cheat your FPs to the afternoon?

Honestly, it just sounds like you've already made up your mind regarding the system without using it, which is unfortunate, but is also your prerogative.

Because, thanks to FP+, the standby longs are a lot longer. Remember the days when the wait for HM was not that long? Well thanks to the addition of FP+ to that ride (and tons of other rides that don't need FP+ like POTC) those days are long gone. People that choose to not plan and use FP+ are basically being punished for it.

 

[Jon81uk]

Very much liked the article. I wish they would have touched more on the kinds of things they are getting out of the massive amounts of data that they are gathering. That's the part that intrigues me the most.

There was a good point in there that I really felt described my experiences.


While there are folks that hate the idea of scheduling their trip in advance, I've found that the trips I've taken post-MB have been the most relaxed, spontaneous trips I've taken in a decade. Schedule the things you really care about, let the rest come, change things on the fly if needed.

As old FastPass led to panic about whether you were going to be able to pick a pass up for the times you want anyway. At least with FP+ you know on entering the park you have three attractions tied down, leaving you to be spontaneous about everything else.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

But there's the rub. I've been going for decades and never had the need to plan each day. I could hit almost all of the rides in the morning and get a fastpass for the afternoon for that one attraction I wanted to ride later in the day. Now if I don't plan 60 days ahead I have to use the standby lines, which have now been inflated thanks to FP+. If Disney had built more attractions to spread the crowds out there wouldn't be a need for this idiotic FP+ system.

If it wasn't for my son wanting to go back I probably wouldn't be going again. At least I have my yearly trips to the beach and mountains to look forward to.

I can definitely understand the frustration of not wanting to plan details when you're on a care-free vacation, but I still think that MM+ could benefit you.

From what you're saying it seems to me that you'll still be able to tour just as you always have, the only difference being that you know before your trip begins which park you'll be at in the morning/evening of a particular day. You may even find that you now have MORE spontaneity than you previously had. Hear me out:

You can still hit all of the rides in the morning, just as you always have in one park. I've been on three trips with the new system and nothing has changed in that regard. The early bird still gets the worm and you will still be able to do almost anything you want with minimal waits. But now with MM+, you have a lineup of Fastpasses lined up for later in the day when the parks are more crowded and lines are longer, either at the same park or a different park. This can afford you some 'care-free' time where you can wander around and either enjoy some other attractions, watch a parade, grab some snacks, take in some details, whatever you want to do without the uncertainty of not knowing if and when your FP return time will be for your preferred attraction. For instance, you can go back to your hotel at lunch time after a morning at MK and take a nap and a dip in the pool and then walk in to HS for the evening with a TSMM FP already secured.

 

[sshindel]

So you used MM+ on your last trip?

Nope, we just missed it.

I'm in IT and spend a lot of time planning and designing networking systems. I'm currently working on a huge fiber project as we speak. The last thing I want to do on a vacation is meticulously plan every single minute of my vacation. People like me aren't the demographic Disney is after it seems.

Can I ask a question?
From the quotes above, you've not used MM+, yet say you are out of it's demographic? You've decided this without using the system?

As a few have mentioned, I've found more spontaneity with the new system than previously. I've decided my "must do" attractions, just like I decided my "must do" dining options in the past. There are only about 3-5 attractions in the resort that have booked up early, so deciding that I want the family to ride TSMM, 7DMT, Soarin, and meet A&E is something I know long in advance I want to do. Those things are not things I decide last minute of "oh, I'm here, what the heck", they are things I know we want to do the moment we book the trip, and are ones that are popular enough to need to potentially plan them in advance.
Every other attraction I've almost always been able to get FP+ for the day of without issue. So, I plan the big attractions, yes, just like I'd plan on riding Forbidden Journey if I was going to IoA for a day. Other than that, everything else is open, and changable on the fly. I have a FP+ at Splash Mountain in 20 minutes but I'm in Tomorrowland? Open the app, make the change, continue to enjoy what's left to enjoy in Tomorrowland. If there are no times left for Splash, I then make the call if it is important enough to me to a) make the FP, b) wait in standby, or c) choose another attraction in it's place. The kids are taking forever to get ready on the morning we're heading to DHS? No longer do I freak out because we're missing our TSMM passes, and I'm not screaming at the family to hustle.

I know other opinions may vary, but based on how I've used the system multiple times, each trip becomes less planned, less strict, and less stressful.

 

[Jon81uk]

Call me crazy but vacationing at a theme park shouldn't involve having to create a spreadsheet to plan out every single day you're there. I'm personally dreading the 60 day window for our upcoming trip because I will have to sit down, plan which park I'm going to be at what day, get Fastpasses for those days, and make sure to plan my Fastpasses around my dining reservations. This is the very antithesis of "spontaneity."

I've used spreadsheets to plan several vacations not at Disney. I needed to know how to get from the airport to my hotel in SanFran, work out what stations are close on the Metro in LA, know whether Six Flags charges for parking, what days they are open, if there are tourist attractions closed on days I want etc etc. DisneyWorld doesn't need less or more planning than other holidays, just different planning.

 

[sshindel]

As old FastPass led to panic about whether you were going to be able to pick a pass up for the times you want anyway. At least with FP+ you know on entering the park you have three attractions tied down, leaving you to be spontaneous about everything else.

FP+ has not impacted wait times any more than (arguably) FP did. Magic Kingdom is welcoming nearly 2 million more visitors today than it was a scant 4 years ago and 3.5 million more people than it did 10 years ago. The lines felt shorter because they were shorter. There were less people visiting.

Edit: quoted the wrong post

 

[englanddg]

I've heard the "FP+ makes standby longer" statement before, and often, but I've never seen any data that backs that up. Anyone have some?

 

[englanddg]

FP+ has not impacted wait times anymore than (arguably) FP did. Magic Kingdom is welcoming nearly 2 million more visitors today than it was a scant 4 years ago and 3.5 million more people than it did 10 years ago. The lines felt shorter because they were shorter. There were less people visiting.

Yeah...as I said....anyone have data to back up that it is FP+ causing longer standby waits? I don't think it is...especially since FP+ is more limited than the prior system and less easy to "game"...the prior system you'd literlly plan your day around how to maximize it...with FP+...not so much. You get 3...maybe 4 if you get a bonus freebie...

 

[sshindel]

Yeah...as I said....anyone have data to back up that it is FP+ causing longer standby waits? I don't think it is...especially since FP+ is more limited than the prior system and less easy to "game"...the prior system you'd literlly plan your day around how to maximize it...with FP+...not so much. You get 3...maybe 4 if you get a bonus freebie...

I think it would be fairly easy to look at a site like Touring Plans and check their historical wait time information. What would be harder would be trying to adjust it for increase in attendance. Wait times rising is not necessarily indicative of FP+ driving wait times up, it could/would be one of many reasons.

 

[Todd H]

Maybe I'm just a fly by the seat of your pants kind of guy but I never plan any vacations. I just let them happen. Of course, I'm also an outdoorsman that often times ends up in the middle of nowhere because that access road on the other side of the mountain just looked too inviting for me to to not drive my Jeep and see where it leads (thank heavens for the 12000 lb. winch I have on my bumper). Try out that mysterious dive bar I just drove past (without the aid of Yelp)? Sounds like fun. Drive around a new city without a map? Yes Please. So with that I will politely bow out of the conversation. Thanks guys.

 

[sshindel]

Maybe I'm just a fly by the seat of your pants kind of guy but I never plan any vacations. I just let them happen. Of course, I'm also an outdoorsman that often times ends up in the middle of nowhere because that access road on the other side of the mountain just looked too inviting for me to to not drive my Jeep and see where it leads (thank heavens for the 12000 winch I have on my bumper). Try out that mysterious dive bar I just drove past (without the aid of Yelp)? Sounds like fun. Drive around a new city without a map? Yes Please. So with that I will politely bow out of the conversation. Thanks guys.

To be clear, I'm not in any way implying that you are wrong in your opinion. The system may be terrible to you based on the way you tour. I was only pointing out that it might be different once you use it. It may not be as bad as you fear. You are entitled to vacation however you want, and if you truly would not want to plan anything in advance at all, then the system likely will not be perfect for you. You might find though that it does offer a hint more flexibility than you thought it would.

 

[englanddg]

I think it would be fairly easy to look at a site like Touring Plans and check their historical wait time information. What would be harder would be trying to adjust it for increase in attendance. Wait times rising is not necessarily indicative of FP+ driving wait times up, it could/would be one of many reasons.

I thought about using their info, as it is quite in depth and historically pretty accurate...but, as you noted, a factor is missing....attendance.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

Yeah...as I said....anyone have data to back up that it is FP+ causing longer standby waits? I don't think it is...especially since FP+ is more limited than the prior system and less easy to "game"...the prior system you'd literlly plan your day around how to maximize it...with FP+...not so much. You get 3...maybe 4 if you get a bonus freebie...

People aren't just making that up. There is definitely some truth to it. By design, FP+ distributes guests across the park more evenly. This means that the system will be sending a large group of people to PoTC who otherwise would not have gone to ride at that particular time, but because that is what was available in their FP window, they are there and slowing up the stand-by line considerably. Where you notice the increased stand-by times the most is on these secondary attractions like PoTC, Living With The Land at Epcot, Great Movie Ride at HS. I don't have numbers for you, but it is happening to some extent.

 

[sshindel]

People aren't just making that up. There is definitely some truth to it. By design, FP+ distributes guests across the park more evenly. This means that the system will be sending a large group of people to PoTC who otherwise would not have gone to ride at that particular time, but because that is what was available in their FP window, they are there and slowing up the stand-by line considerably. Where you notice the increased stand-by times the most is on these secondary attractions like PoTC, Living With The Land at Epcot, Great Movie Ride at HS. I don't have numbers for you, but it is happening to some extent.

This is however no more than what FastPass (version 1) would have potentially done.

 

[wdisney9000]

With any new system there will be those that love it, and those that dont. Whether its MM+, Google+, heck even when the telephone first came out it was rejected by many and some even called it satanic. NGE definitely has its positives and it definitely has its negatives and thats what I dont appreciate about an article like this. It focuses 100% on positive aspects and mentions absolutely nothing of the negative side.

Im not saying they should slam MM+ either, just present both sides of the story. Aside from the fact that technology is prone to errors, just the simple idea that making plans 60-180 days out isnt as perfect as they make it it seem. It reads way more like propaganda and far less like an unbiased piece of journalism. Quoting from the article, "You dont need to wait in long lines" and "You’re freed to take advantage of more rides". Both statements are extremely misleading.

We have had many trips to WDW since NGE has rolled out. We have had a few minor issues but nothing that ruined our trip, on the other hand, it hasnt enhanced the experience on the level articles like this claim it does.

It has its conveniences such as making changes on the app, but as @MichWolv pointed out, those conveniences are simply not there if your visiting during peak seasons or a busy day. Another quote from the article, "It’s amazing how much friction Disney has engineered away", while this is true to a certain degree, when the system has an error it can also create way more friction than could have ever been possible before. The entire system has crashed several times already with no back up in place and countless people have had to spend much more time at GS or the front desk from problems that simply did not and could not have happened prior. I always like what Palmer Joss says in the movie Contact, "Is the world fundamentally a better place because of science and technology?" It rings true not only in the aspect of MM+, but technology as a whole. For all the conveniences it offers, are we fundamentally better?

 

[englanddg]

People aren't just making that up. There is definitely some truth to it. By design, FP+ distributes guests across the park more evenly. This means that the system will be sending a large group of people to PoTC who otherwise would not have gone to ride at that particular time, but because that is what was available in their FP window, they are there and slowing up the stand-by line considerably. Where you notice the increased stand-by times the most is on these secondary attractions like PoTC, Living With The Land at Epcot, Great Movie Ride at HS. I don't have numbers for you, but it is happening to some extent.

Perhaps. I suspect the impact is nominal. I remember in the early 90s POTC was rarely less than 45 mins...and on my trips lately I've seen it about the same, though it is a people chopper with throughput and varies widely...

I'm still not sure how FP+ impacts it any more or less than the prior system did...it isn't like lines have suddenly tripled at Carousel of Progress because people are booking it online...

 

[DisneyJoe]

I thought about using their info, as it is quite in depth and historically pretty accurate...but, as you noted, a factor is missing....attendance.

They worked to factor that in, in June 2014 in one analysis of FastPass+. They may have done another one since, but June 2014 was the first one I found.

 

[englanddg]

With any new system there will be those that love it, and those that dont. Whether its MM+, Google+, heck even when the telephone first came out it was rejected by many and some even called it satanic. NGE definitely has its positives and it definitely has its negatives and thats what I dont appreciate about an article like this. It focuses 100% on positive aspects and mentions absolutely nothing of the negative side.

Im not saying they should slam MM+ either, just present both sides of the story. Aside from the fact that technology is prone to errors, just the simple idea that making plans 60-180 days out isnt as perfect as they make it it seem. It reads way more like propaganda and far less like an unbiased piece of journalism. Quoting from the article, "You dont need to wait in long lines" and "You’re freed to take advantage of more rides". Both statements are extremely misleading.

We have had many trips to WDW since NGE has rolled out. We have had a few minor issues but nothing that ruined our trip, on the other hand, it hasnt enhanced the experience on the level articles like this claim it does.

It has its conveniences such as making changes on the app, but as @MichWolv pointed out, those conveniences are simply not there if your visiting during peak seasons or a busy day. Another quote from the article, "It’s amazing how much friction Disney has engineered away", while this is true to a certain degree, when the system has an error it can also create way more friction than could have ever been possible before. The entire system has crashed several times already with no back up in place and countless people have had to spend much more time at GS or the front desk from problems that simply did not and could not have happened prior. I always like what Palmer Joss says in the movie Contact, "Is the world fundamentally a better place because of science and technology?" It rings true not only in the aspect of MM+, but technology as a whole. For all the conveniences it offers, are we fundamentally better?

Well put!

 

[englanddg]

They worked to factor that in, in June 2014 in one analysis of FastPass+. They may have done another one since, but June 2014 was the first one I found.

They poke around these forums...maybe they'll poke their head into this thread and clarify?

 

[DisneyOutsider]

This is however no more than what FastPass (version 1) would have potentially done.

Not true.

More people are being directed towards certain rides than under the old system. In the old system people would wait until their current FP is up/used and then go to the next attraction they want to ride and either grab the FP return time available for that ride or hop in the stand-by line. But now, because everyone plans three at a time, people take whatever is available during the time slot that they are in the park. People will book/use all three FP's, because why not?

Essentially, the new system ensures that more people are utilizing the FP system, hence an increase in stand-by queues that wouldn't normally see that foot-traffic.