MK Will there be a witch/queen in seven dwarfs mine train?

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
It doesn't make sense to have closed the mountain in first since it will make it very difficult for them to add the track to the supports. If you have looked at how other roller coasters are build the track sections tend to be fairly large and awkward and are lifted in place with a crane. The structure of the mountain is going to make that much harder to do.

First, I never said they made a mistake, you are the one he keeps putting those words in my mouth. What I am trying to understand is, on the tall section of the ride that has been partially enclosed in concrete panels, how will they get the track sections onto the track supports? You can see from today's pictures that the track sections are quite substantial and thus will require a crane to lift them into place. It seems like it's going to be a tricky process to pass those sections through the openings in that structure and get them onto the supports.

I would not want to be accused of "putting words" in anybody's mouth. You did say that the construction "doesn't make sense" and that it will be "very difficult" to guide in sections of track, if this was true, then it would be a major construction mistake. If on a construction job you do something that "doesn't make sense" and that require extra man hours and makes the job unnecessarily difficult, then yes that would be a "mistake."

I do not enjoy the pervasive pugilistic petulance in your posts directed at me and will refrain from responding to your posts as this seems to vex you no end. I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, but this back-and-forth row is not productive. Please reference my prior post to answer your question.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
I would not want to be accused of "putting words" in anybody's mouth. You did say that the construction "doesn't make sense" and that it will be "very difficult" to guide in sections of track, if this was true, then it would be a major construction mistake. If on a construction job you do something that "doesn't make sense" and that require extra man hours and makes the job unnecessarily difficult, then yes that would be a "mistake."

I do not enjoy the pervasive pugilistic petulance in your posts directed at me and will refrain from responding to your posts as this seems to vex you no end. I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, but this back-and-forth row is not productive. Please reference my prior post to answer your question.

Clearly it was meant that it didn't make sense to the person posting. As in, they specifically did not understand Disney's process for building the attraction. Not once did they say that there was "a major construction mistake". You made that up, and therefore did technically put words into the person's mouth. The fact that there was a multi-page argument about this is kinda sad, especially considering all the "mistakes" you seem to think Disney made in all aspects of building TLM.

Based on the HUGE pieces of track sitting around backstage, I find it very unlikely that they will be hand carrying anything anywhere. Going off previous coaster construction I've seen, it does seem odd to enclose such a small space before installing the track.

Sweet alliteration, though.
 

Tom

Beta Return
I'm going to chime in, since I DO have construction experience - being a commercial construction manager.

There's a difference between a mistake, and a decision that may not be the best solution but solves another problem.

They have completely enclosed the large lift's mountain, meaning the track will have to be maneuvered into the ride building and hoisted into place - including the enormous lift components seen in the photos linked to previously.

My guess is that Disney wants to get as much of the heavy machinery in and out of the jobsite before November as possible. And perhaps even start dressing the mountain to make it look nicer once guests are surrounding the jobsite. To do so, they had to sacrifice the logical step of installing the track first. The track probably wasn't ready, and they had to proceed.

Now they're going to have to get those pieces inside and up - quite a feat. danlb_2000 is quite right when pointing out that their sequencing is not the most logical - but nobody can say it was a mistake. Someone would have stopped them from capping the lift mountain at some point, since the missing track isn't just something you "forget". You forget to run a conduit or rough-in for a water connection - you don't forget to install the track before you enclose the building.

Not a mistake, just not the ideal or most logical sequence of operations. There's some reason they chose to do it this way, and it's likely what I said above - get the cranes and concrete trucks off the site so that they can minimize heavy traffic through the park come November.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
I'm going to chime in, since I DO have construction experience - being a commercial construction manager.

There's a difference between a mistake, and a decision that may not be the best solution but solves another problem.

They have completely enclosed the large lift's mountain, meaning the track will have to be maneuvered into the ride building and hoisted into place - including the enormous lift components seen in the photos linked to previously.

My guess is that Disney wants to get as much of the heavy machinery in and out of the jobsite before November as possible. And perhaps even start dressing the mountain to make it look nicer once guests are surrounding the jobsite. To do so, they had to sacrifice the logical step of installing the track first. The track probably wasn't ready, and they had to proceed.

Now they're going to have to get those pieces inside and up - quite a feat. danlb_2000 is quite right when pointing out that their sequencing is not the most logical - but nobody can say it was a mistake. Someone would have stopped them from capping the lift mountain at some point, since the missing track isn't just something you "forget". You forget to run a conduit or rough-in for a water connection - you don't forget to install the track before you enclose the building.

Not a mistake, just not the ideal or most logical sequence of operations. There's some reason they chose to do it this way, and it's likely what I said above - get the cranes and concrete trucks off the site so that they can minimize heavy traffic through the park come November.

The "mountain" section you are referring to is not completely enclosed in, just on one side of it. The heavy track seen in the photos on Screamscape is for the lift part of the ride, and just might be installed on the "open" side of this "hill" ;). The more regular track can be more, or less, easily maneuvered into position, IMHO. I've seen hollow tubular roller coasters (Matterhorn had a hollow system pressurized with Nitrogen I believe for structural integrity monitoring.)

I believe you are moving in the right direction when it comes to choreographing a job like this, and 100% they don't want to have to bring in and out the heavy machinery in the middle of the night . . . by November, major structural work would be done I am guessing, track should be put in place and major mountain structural work done.

Unless, of course, they build a construction wall corridor to the access road between Mermaid and Storybook Circusland.;) Of course 7DMT is on a schedule, but Disney always does a very safe job when building things (at least they used to), and I don't think they'd do anything to jeopardize the attraction, such as moving a very heavy piece of the track into an enclosed part of the ride . . . seems like a great way to damage something.

So, I do not agree that a compromise was made in terms of what is being discussed as the heavy lift components sure won't be maneuvered into the very small amount of enclosure that is built, like I said, a lot more is going to be built.

I apologize to danlb_2000, I wasn't trying to maliciously "put words" in his mouth, but given that he described the construction choices as "not making sense" and went on to describe how they would have difficulty putting track inside . . . if I heard somebody say this on a construction site about a project, I would figure it was a "mistake" instead of a carefully weighed chess move under time constraints, which seems a little farfetched, IMHO, despite the scenario you suggest.

I wasn't sure if what danlb_2000 said was a "hoax" or something like that, like maybe he was trying to be provocative, it was almost kind of comedic, as if somebody was watching Splash Mountain being built and thought that the hole was too small for the logs or something . . . it just didn't make sense to me!

I think we've all been had by a clever poster! He's probably laughing and seeing how many times he can make us explain what is going on!

DatelineDisneyWorld822-IMG_1200.jpg


I thought that this side of the mountain was a "down" part of the ride, hence heavy lift mechanism not needed.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Since this appears to be the high point of the ride and track supports form a hump, I would assume that this where the first lift hill will be.

I was talking about the enclosed part of this "hill", the part where you and others are wondering whether lift track will be put here (the big heavy lift track shown on screamscape amigo). The left side of the hill (on this photo) is perfectly open and lift track can be installed here. ;)

Here's the track layout, with direction of mine cars,

180624_196394957040641_100000104151317_787144_4295400_n.jpg
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
One thing I don't get is the scene in the ride where the Dwarfs march across the log. How will they do that? Will they actually move across the log, or just walk in place singing "Hi ho", and so on (which would seem kind of silly, like Ariel's soft-serve hairdo in the Mermaid ride)?
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
One thing I don't get is the scene in the ride where the Dwarfs march across the log. How will they do that? Will they actually move across the log, or just walk in place singing "Hi ho", and so on (which would seem kind of silly, like Ariel's soft-serve hairdo in the Mermaid ride)?

I would think that how well the effect would be pulled off would depend on whether you get a fleeting glimpse while flying underneath the log, or if they are also visible from outside the attraction.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I was talking about the enclosed part of this "hill", the part where you and others are wondering whether lift track will be put here (the big heavy lift track shown on screamscape amigo). The left side of the hill (on this photo) is perfectly open and lift track can be installed here. ;)

Here's the track layout, with direction of mine cars,

180624_196394957040641_100000104151317_787144_4295400_n.jpg

Lee,

I believe this is your older diagram which has been cut down since then, correct?
 

Lee

Adventurer
Lee,

I believe this is your older diagram which has been cut down since then, correct?
Yeah, it's quite a bit different now.
The second one above, that RAXIP posted, is the newer and more accurate version.

I really need to work on my Paint skills. That looks terrible.lol
 

Lee

Adventurer
I think on the, errr . . . "diagram" of the ride, the second lift is the straight section of track with the arrow going the wrong way.
It's my diagram that someone cleaned up a bit. Surely I didn't put the arrow in backwards...


I really prefer that version of the ride. Longer and more complex.
 

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