Will it Star Wars?

[danlb_2000]

I just watched the interview circa 2010 where gary Kurtz addressed that.

They had an outline for more than one movie...but Lucas and fox thought it would flop so they took the idea of franchise off the table for practical purposes and “Star Wars” scrolled on the scream without an episode.

The fox executives also said 4 would be too confusing and would make what looked like a long shot movie even more of a Head scratcher.

In Issue 18 (December 1978) of Starlog there is an interview with Star Wars producer Gary Kurtz that talks about The Empire Strikes Back. I thought this section of the article was rather amusing:

Going along with this long-range concept, the producer refuses to taint the new production with the usual Hollywood sequel slang. The film, for instance, is never referred to in Lucas-Kurtz circles as Star Wars II. "I would never call it that," Kurtz winces. "Our working title is The Empire Strikes Back. And as I said, it's part of a plan that George and I had from the inception of the original film. What we wanted to do was to relate every subsequent Star Wars adventure as an episode of a continuing story, like the old movie serials used to do. We were going to call this movie Star Wars Episode Two: The Empire Strikes Back, but we ran into some problems. You see, although this story is a direct sequel to the first movie, we have three more stories that we eventually want to film that actually occur before the point where the first Star Wars begins.

"So we've been toying with the idea of ignoring the numbers completely. Instead, we'll give each movie episode a unique title. I mean, if we had to give each film its true number in the series, this movie would be called Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back. The first film would be called Episode Four! Can you imagine how complicated it would get? If we released a story like that publicly through a press release, thousands of people would be totally con- fused. Everyone would want to know what happened to the other three movies."

 

[danlb_2000]

I haven't read the entire thread, but in case no one posted this - Star Wars was always titled Episode IV, A New Hope. I remember reading that in the opening scroll and being shocked that episodes 1 through 3 hadn't been made yet.

Nope, here is the original 1977 crawl...

 

[danyoung56]

I stand corrected. Hard to argue against visual evidence!

 

[Prince-1]

I stand corrected. Hard to argue against visual evidence!

Yet many people do.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yet many people do.

People do struggle around here with facts and and reasonable conclusions....

But you can call yourself a “secret agent” and they’ll believe you like a televangelist...

This wasn’t a case of anyone being dishonest or insidious...danyoung 56 just misremembered. It happens to everyone all the time.

 

[Prince-1]

People do struggle around here with facts and and reasonable conclusions....

But you can call yourself a “secret agent” and they’ll believe you like a televangelist...

This wasn’t a case of anyone being dishonest or insidious...danyoung 56 just misremembered. It happens to everyone all the time.

Oh I know and he owned up to it which is very commendable as many people wouldn't.

 

[Astro_Digital]

In any universe you would not see lasers, space ships would not explode, you will never hear sound in space, the force will always be BS, light sabers are not possible ..... the list goes on and on.

It is Fantasy set in Space and the story arcs please.
Was anybody really shocked with the "I am your father" scene.
Han is a sexist idiot, and he really did shot first.
Luke "Skywalker" way to hide a future Jedi .... they did not even change his name.

Ok saying all this Star Wars if you leave your brain is a jar.... is good entertainment.

 

[kong1802]

This is my hang up on SW:GE....

There's only two rides. The "experience" of walking around the land loses its appeal when you are shoulder to shoulder. I could see reviews, especially early ones, hampering its success, as it relates to pulling non Disney folk into the park in droves.....

They were able to pull off the above scenario at UNI, but in my mind, circumstances were different. HP at that time, and still is today, a very hot property. It was only 5 years removed from kids dressing up and waiting outside their local bookstore at midnight waiting on the newest release. People were fine with just having the land to walk around in, in their $100 HP robes. And they also had the most technologically advanced ride to open the land with (It still holds up, can't say the same for FOP). UNI has been great about the continued expansion of that land, which is still ongoing.

Now, the battle attraction seems like it might take the torch from FJ, so perhaps that will be enough. I'm not optimistic about the falcon attraction, and I hope I'm wrong. I'm hopeful that they keep their eyes on expanding the land, like UNI has done with HP.

After 1 visit, though, will people be pining to return to SW:GE? That's a concern in my eyes...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In any universe you would not see lasers, space ships would not explode, you will never hear sound in space, the force will always be BS, light sabers are not possible ..... the list goes on and on.

It is Fantasy set in Space and the story arcs please.
Was anybody really shocked with the "I am your father" scene.
Han is a sexist idiot, and he really did shot first.
Luke "Skywalker" way to hide a future Jedi .... they did not even change his name.

Ok saying all this Star Wars if you leave your brain is a jar.... is good entertainment.

The first three movies were instrumental in creating modern Hollywood and moving the visual spectacle on a whole new level.

The stories were relatedable enough to resonate with a world cross section of fans rarely seen - yes, Disney animated movies are probably the closest.

Carrie Fisher as a sharp-witted, action hero was brilliant. And yes...you still knew she was a girl and that’s why it worked. Rey - on the other hand - was intentionally created to be mentally “swappable” with any jedi from the prequels. Androgynous...more or less. They de-feminized her in an attempt to feminize her. Silly.

Fisher has no business going near a movie in 2015 though...far too much “living” to be honest.

The most influential latter 20th century movies are jaws and Star Wars...by far.
It’s a bit hypocritical to judge 1977-1983 story flaws if you detach yourself from the cultural reality of what happened, when they happened.

I assume you are a Gen Xer, correct? That’s kinda the minimum age to fire darts in this matter...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is my hang up on SW:GE....

There's only two rides. The "experience" of walking around the land loses its appeal when you are shoulder to shoulder. I could see reviews, especially early ones, hampering its success, as it relates to pulling non Disney folk into the park in droves.....

They were able to pull off the above scenario at UNI, but in my mind, circumstances were different. HP at that time, and still is today, a very hot property. It was only 5 years removed from kids dressing up and waiting outside their local bookstore at midnight waiting on the newest release. People were fine with just having the land to walk around in, in their $100 HP robes. And they also had the most technologically advanced ride to open the land with (It still holds up, can't say the same for FOP). UNI has been great about the continued expansion of that land, which is still ongoing.

Now, the battle attraction seems like it might take the torch from FJ, so perhaps that will be enough. I'm not optimistic about the falcon attraction, and I hope I'm wrong. I'm hopeful that they keep their eyes on expanding the land, like UNI has done with HP.

After 1 visit, though, will people be pining to return to SW:GE? That's a concern in my eyes...

I’m shockingly in agreement with you

My problems are logistics and - particular to fanboards - unrealistic expectations of what that the Disney audience wants/tolerates...

They want to have a lot of fun for their dollars...and that means you can’t build something small and expect people to not get full access to it. Only on these boards is the idea that people want to be “immersed in the theme” while not being able to go on rides with 3 hour waits considered reasonable...
Nobody wants to stare at the walls. That’s been the excuse for DAK since 1999...the “detail is an attraction in of itself”...nope...not based on lagging attendance. People have mobbed an IP no one even remembered because it was SOMETHINg...they’ll drink the sand. I hope the Star Wars land is at least as well put together as the avatar land (no guarantees)...they will have a big time issue if not.

But the reality to Disney management and we zealots has always been this: they run amusement parks which requires increasing amounts of high tech amusements. Strip it away, say it’s “different”...it’s never going away.

Building identical lands was and is a mistake. One had enough room for Florida crowds and one does not. Period.

But I’ll let you know...I’m going early...it just is gonna Work out that I’m on a west coaster late Next summer. Which means I can fight that crowd for Star Wars without fp+...which I’m beginning to loathe.

 

[geekza]

I have the entire B5 series on DVD - it's about time to start watching 'em again!

Just watched the entire series with my son this past summer. I hadn't seen the last three seasons since they first aired. Aside from the shaky digital effects in the first couple of seasons, it holds up beautifully. Powerful writing and an amazing cast.

There I go getting a thread off-topic again. Sorry. As you were.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just watched the entire series with my son this past summer. I hadn't seen the last three seasons since they first aired. Aside from the shaky digital effects in the first couple of seasons, it holds up beautifully. Powerful writing and an amazing cast.

There I go getting a thread off-topic again. Sorry. As you were.

I know we’ve established Star Wars isn’t “sci fi”...

But this is what happened in the late 90’s that make the later Star Wars look bad:

1. TNG had the best actors/delivery...took the genre out of laughable. (Star Trek 2, 4 and 6 helped too)
2. DS9 had the most developed characters and story explorations
3. B5 introduced “grit” into the genre with societal undertones. (And I love me some boxleitner)

Kira and Ivanova are fantastic characters. Amazing.

I won’t even go to the BSG reboot.

After many sleepless hours reading and thinking about this..it seems 99% clear that Star Wars is screwing up repeatedly trying to hook kids. If you build something decent - they will come. Star Wars should be written to intrigue mom and dad. Not reboots or PG slapstick. That’s why R1 is the most complete recent effort: more meat on the bones...nostalgia done the intelligent way.

 

[geekza]

After many sleepless hours reading and thinking about the...it seems 99% clear that Star Wars is screwing up repeatedly trying to hook kids. If you build something decent - they will come. Star Wars should be written to intrigue mom and dad. Not reboots or PG slapstick. That’s why R1 is the most complete recent effort: more meat on the bones...nostalgia done the intelligent way.

I agree that it's been tough to strike the right balance of intriguing characters and stories that appeal to all ages. I have a far-kinder view of the new films than you, but I will concede that the first 2.75 films have yet to be matched by the later films. I agree that Rogue One was incredibly well done and I wish that I could at least read the version of the screenplay that was filmed before the reshoots.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree that it's been tough to strike the right balance of intriguing characters and stories that appeal to all ages. I have a far-kinder view of the new films than you, but I will concede that the first 2.75 films have yet to be matched by the later films. I agree that Rogue One was incredibly well done and I wish that I could at least read the version of the screenplay that was filmed before the reshoots.

Had to take a shot at the Ewoks huh??

I’m way more accepting of jedi than most...I think it did far more right than wrong...but it’s flawed. I think ANH is too...by the way

 

[Prince-1]

I though this clip is fitting for this discussion:

 

[Brad Bishop]

After many sleepless hours reading and thinking about the...it seems 99% clear that Star Wars is screwing up repeatedly trying to hook kids. If you build something decent - they will come. Star Wars should be written to intrigue mom and dad. Not reboots or PG slapstick. That’s why R1 is the most complete recent effort: more meat on the bones...nostalgia done the intelligent way.

It's the same problem Disney and Looney Tunes has with their cartoon characters: Granted, they changed over the years as they formed their overall, and distinct, personalities, but if you look at what's been produced for both casts since 1970 or so, it's just spoon-fed junk for kids. Not particularly good. The older stuff was vaudeville, especially on the LT side, and kids got it and adults enjoyed it.

I think gearing things like that specifically for children, like Star Wars has done since Return, is a short-sighted mistake.

 

[tk924]

Another 49 year old SW fan here. Good to see there are others here in the same camp.

Although the last 2 Disney SW have been extremely underwhelming, I'm still hoping for the turn around. Will it happen with Ep 9? I doubt it. I have placed my expectations so low that nothing will disappoint me now. The new live TV series has peaked some interest, but again, low expectations. And I can only hope and pray that they'll keep Ruin Johnson away from anything with Star Wars attached to it.
And I'm staying away from SW:GE for quite a while. I think the initial wait times will be measured in days, not hours. Hopefully the novelty will wear down enough so that we can be there at rope drop and ride before the park closes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I though this clip is fitting for this discussion:

I would fully agree - and still laughed - if it were not a place to literally waste time spitballing with Disney sycophants

“Can anyone tell me how magical Port is?...looking to book my 2024 trip!!! Xoxo xoxo”

 

[Prince-1]

I would fully agree - and still laughed - if it were not a place to literally waste time spitballing with Disney sycopjanrs

“Can anyone tell me how magical Port is?...looking to book my 2024 trip!!! Xoxo xoxo”

Sorry but anyone that is going to spend so much time debating and worrying if/how/why a Jedi Training Center fits in canon with Disney's Galaxy Edge needs to watch this again:

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Another 49 year old SW fan here. Good to see there are others here in the same camp.

Although the last 2 Disney SW have been extremely underwhelming, I'm still hoping for the turn around. Will it happen with Ep 9? I doubt it. I have placed my expectations so low that nothing will disappoint me now. The new live TV series has peaked some interest, but again, low expectations. And I can only hope and pray that they'll keep Ruin Johnson away from anything with Star Wars attached to it.
And I'm staying away from SW:GE for quite a while. I think the initial wait times will be measured in days, not hours. Hopefully the novelty will wear down enough so that we can be there at rope drop and ride before the park closes.

Episode 9 will be safe and they will make a dull “correction” movie.

We’ll find out that Rey is - indeed - from a storied and famous family tree...ren will probably be “redeemed”...and Carrie Fisher will be so bad you’ll have to go on a potty break - yet will be lauded.

And after the too short, climactic battle...a “new republic” will be created where bold new stories can later be told.

So I feel like I should load up my jansport and head off on my diamondback to chem lab...cause nothing has changed since the EU universe. Except ford got paid to mistakenly back his plane into dumpsters even more.

It will make probably $1.5 or so bill...but like jedi will be panned for the next 30 years after you leave the amc bathroom. Because anybody will buy a movie ticket to anything and that is why box office doesn’t address the Star Wars franchise at all. See: Furious, Fast and