Will it Star Wars?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Star Wars (1977) also got something right: How to make an interesting/fun Sci-Fi movie.

If you think about the movies that came before that, they were a bore. 1970s Sci-Fi sucked until Star Wars. You have things like 2001: A Space Odyssey which just left you pushing through it and wondering what was going on. I know: Stanley Kubrick and there's some historical value to it but it's not a go-to movie on any given night.

People, at the time, were still fairly excited about space travel even though NASA ended the Apollo missing a few years before. We were going to get the "Space Shuttle" which seemed exciting and more practical even though it was, essentially, a low-altitude space mule. We all still dreamt of it taking us further.

Still, the movies of the time tried to capture that and made it all horribly boring. Star Wars was the first movie that really fixed that and made Sci-Fi exciting.

If you really think about it, overall, Star Wars movies are pretty bad, though. With the exception of Empire and Rogue One, they all kind of suck in their own way. Go back and watch IV - Luke is incredibly whiny throughout the entire movie. It's good because it was, as stated above, a kind of beginning for interesting/fun Sci-Fi movies.

If I were to watch a Star Wars movie tonight, it'd be Rogue One. I really think that's a great movie. There's parts of it that are a bit contrived like storing all of your data in a tower which has such a catwalk system that pointlessly makes it hard to get to what are, in effect, hard drives. Still, I enjoy that movie.

I agree...

I think the problem with rogue one was the forced daddy issues...but I think they got a lot right. It has the most legs for the longterm than any disney movie by far...

You can watch it any day/time and that’s what was unique about Star Wars in the first place...over and over again.

So what did Kennedy do? Publicly embarrass Gareth Edwards in post production and never mention him again?

Because he was an actual Star Wars Fan..abrams claims to be - but hasn’t shown it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think many people would consider the new Star Wars films as "art house" films. I'm curious as to why you feel that they've taken that direction.

I don’t...lol...that was exaggeration for purpose.

I mean alluding to rian (spell it right) johnson’s “New direction”...

I’m not interested in the least...you didn’t need to reinterpret what people accepted/loved in the first place. Kennedy should be fired for that...period...tremendous miscalculation.

 

[geekza]

I don’t...lol...that was exaggeration for purpose.

I mean alluding to rian (spell it right) johnson’s “New direction”...

I’m not interested in the least...you didn’t need to reinterpret what people accepted/loved in the first place. Kennedy should be fired for that...period...tremendous miscalculation.

I disagree, but you aren't alone in your views.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I may be absolutely wrong on this and, at the same time, I'm not wishing Disney ill will here.

Also, I think when it initially opens it'll have it's initial draw.

My theory is mainly based on that initial draw petering out and that, while the common wisdom says Star Wars is always a win, there are many signs that say it isn't.

In the other thread I also questioned the long-term feasibility of having cast members wander around in character. I figure, sure, the first year that'll happen. After that it'll start being trimmed back because you can't show on the spreadsheet where they're adding to the bottom line and they're still costing money. I think that 2-3 years out it'll be a very detailed land with rides, merch, food, and that's about it (not that it's not good but that the interactive cast members will be gone).

Another side of this, if I were arguing with myself, which I am, is that I think that Star Wars Hotels adds a lot to it. Star Wars land? Meh... I'll visit it when I'm down there. Star Wars hotel?? That starting to sound like a destination.
(though honestly I probably won't do it but it really does sound pretty neat).

My main thrust, though is the popularity arc (about 40 years), a lot of bad movies, Star Wars fatigue, and lots of SW toys left over after each Christmas. It's not getting better. You can see an entire toy dept cleared out the day after Christmas except the Star Wars section.

Of course, this is all arm-chair CEOing. I want to be clear with this: No one at Disney felt the need to call me up and ask me for my opinion on any of this stuff. I didn't have the, "Hey, Brad, what do you think about a Star Wars Land??," nor answer, "...ehhhh... Are you sure??"

All valid and well expressed thoughts. I think SWGE will do fine. Lets take The label Star Wars off this land for a moment. What is this new land? A really cool, immersive, NEW land at DL and WDW. Returning guests at DL, and for sure, WDW are starving for NEW attractions. Avatar is a ok movie but the FOP attraction is now THE BEST RIDE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA period. That's why folks go to Pandora, not because they are Avatar fans.

For me, put up ANY new coaster in WDW and I am on it for the thrill, not for the theme. Theme is nice and makes it fit in, but what ever the theme, a great attraction that is NEW will pull in guests.

The key is the attraction has to be great. For example. EPCOT's first version of IMAGINATION was great. The next two tries, no good.

 

[Phonedave]

This started becoming a tangent based on something I posted in a separate thread and figured I'd put it in it's own thread as to not derail the original thread:



I don't mean to just be negative with this. I'm not saying it'd be an absolute flop, either.

What I'm trying to convey is that the conventional wisdom is:
- Everything Star Wars is great
- Star Wars will do nothing but print money for Disney
- SWGE is nothing but the best thing ever at Disney parks!
- You can do no wrong with Star Wars
- (more nothing but positive stuff here)

I was 7 in 1977 when Star Wars, before it was renamed to Star Wars, Episode IV, A New Hope, came out. If any kid should be a Star Wars adult it's me. I loved Star Wars as a kid, remember not liking Empire because the bad guys won, and remember not liking Return because Ewoks. I'd grow to really love Empire (I think it's the best movie) and learn to like Return, in spite of the stupid Ewoks. Star Wars always had a warm spot in my heart, though.

When I, II, and III were announced I, like many others, were pretty ecstatic. FINALLY, more Star Wars. Then we were all met with disappointment. I saw them. I really didn't even fully understand them as I felt like they had too many characters to follow and one of them was Star Wars C-SPAN edition. I liked III with the turning of Anakin (well, more towards the end). I got that.

Still, not great movies. VII, VIII, and Rogue One came out. VII was great because it wasn't I, II, and III... it was a rehash of IV, V, and VI which you realized about a week later and then realized it was disappointing. Rogue One was good, though.

Last Jedi - meh. "There's good in you.. I can feel it"- great.. The same freaking lines from before (Empire). I think they've run out of material.

I should be one of the guys who'd excited about Star Wars but I don't even care any longer and I think that holds true with a lot of folks. Yep, you still have your die-hard Star Wars fans who'll buy anything Star Wars but I don't think that there are enough new fans being brought in to make up for the fans falling off the vine and I think a lot of them are falling off the vine and it's a natural process with famous movies which typically have about a 40year arc of popularity (think Wizard of Oz from 1939 and dying off around 1979).

You can see reports of SW products on store shelves being plentiful after Christmas. I don't think kids are connecting with it like they used to and adults are falling by the wayside.

It lands me on: I think SWGE will be a success, especially in the early years (1-2) but, outside of the small, core "Star Wars Weekends" fans from years back, I don't think there's a huge audience for it.

It's a difference between something that would draw people down to Orlando and something that they'd definitely look into while they're there. I think it's the latter.

Also: Let's just beat this beast back: Just because you don't like a movie doesn't mean you're racist or misogynist. That's stupid.

I honestly cannot comment on how popular SW in general, and SWGE in specific will be, but your story is almost exactly the same as mine. I was 7 as well when Start Wars came out - holy freaking cow I loved Star Wars. I think nostalgia carried that feeling forward for quite some time. Then new stuff came out, and now I really don't care. I'm just one data point, and maybe they are looking at a different target demographic. But it is not me.

 

[righttrack]

Star Wars (1977) also got something right: How to make an interesting/fun Sci-Fi movie.

If you think about the movies that came before that, they were a bore. 1970s Sci-Fi sucked until Star Wars. You have things like 2001: A Space Odyssey which just left you pushing through it and wondering what was going on. I know: Stanley Kubrick and there's some historical value to it but it's not a go-to movie on any given night.
.

I don't believe Star Wars is indeed Sci-fi. Sci-fi is rooted in a futuristic timeline whereas Star Wars is in an alternative universe (not alternate universe). It's an original place, much like Game of Thrones is in that regard. There is also a lack of scientific focus. Sure there is high tech, and low tech, but they aren't part of the story. The story is as old as the stories in Errol Flynn movies. It's why tube tvs and monotext fonts in Star Wars aren't as out of place as they are in Star Trek for example.

 

[righttrack]

Fantastic analysis...funny how that actually contributes to the discussion

For me...the 1980’s and the last “great” era for American pop culture started right at that moment when the horns blasted and the scroll started...

It was a time of general societal content we haven’t seen since and Star Wars was kinda a banner carrier for it. It hasn’t translated as well in a changing media world.

But neither Lucas nor Disney has tried intelligently. Too much”I want to take it THIS way” and not “how do we keep this going?”

Leave arthouse film for the art house

Indeed. Star Wars is classic popcorn moviemaking at it's finest. When it gets preachy or message-oriented, as some of the later films did, it failed.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

My husband and I are in the camp of: We are going to WDW anyway, might as well see StarWars land, IF it is not too busy with long lines. Then we will skip it for the time being. We loved the first ones, but never became starwars fanatics. Our kids loved star wars. But not one of them as adults, have mentioned wanting to go to WDW just for SW. We would not schedule a visit just for Star WArs.

 

[Brad Bishop]

I honestly cannot comment on how popular SW in general, and SWGE in specific will be, but your story is almost exactly the same as mine. I was 7 as well when Start Wars came out - holy freaking cow I loved Star Wars. I think nostalgia carried that feeling forward for quite some time. Then new stuff came out, and now I really don't care. I'm just one data point, and maybe they are looking at a different target demographic. But it is not me.

To be fair, as I've gotten older, it's hard for me to watch TV or go to movies because so much of it is: Tell me the same story all over again but with different actors. On the other side of the coin is the never-ending story where they just keep churning out the same story over and over again or just never end the story (think 1970s soap opera - which is where Star Wars is to me).

Most people, if they're telling you a good story, have a beginning, a middle, and an end and, hopefully, it's interesting.

Star Wars, Avengers, and many other IPs (HP ended otherwise it'd be doing the same) are like a little kid who just keeps talking. We literally got Anakin Skywalker's life story. Think about that for a min and how little since that makes in story telling. Me telling you some interesting thing that happened in my life is cool. Me starting with my birth and taking you through now is a long story not really going anywhere.

 

[Fishbait]

Star Wars is dead to me. I have no interest in supporting the current "vision" of it, that includes paying to see it in the park.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Star Wars is dead to me. I have no interest in supporting the current "vision" of it, that includes paying to see it in the park.

Elaborate...what “ended it”
For you??

 

[beertiki]

I am 49, saw Star Wars at a drive in back in 1977. Over the years I have owned the first 3 movies on VHS, DVD, and Digital Download, we watch them about once a year. It's safe to say I will be a fan of those movies until I die. There has to be 100s of thousands of Disney visitors just like me.

Forget the rides, characters, the immersive land, you know what I can't wait to see? A life size Millennium Falcon.

My daughter, 23, is a Star Wars fan. I have no idea about kids 7 - 12, but just based on the amount of toys sold at Disney and kids running around the park with light sabers, I think it's safe to say that the kids are into it.

SWGE should have no problem staying busy for the 5 to 10 years.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Me starting with my birth and taking you through now is a long story not really going anywhere.

Unless you’re Darth Vader explaining how you went from being a little kid with great promise and gifts to ending up as Darth Vader.

 

[erasure fan1]

Abrams is not a strong finisher and never has been...the faith in him is completely miss guided.

Well I know he has never been a great finisher but that is why I think there's a chance. I think he knows that is what everyone thinks about him. So he will/should be extremely motivated to close this out strong and shut up all the critics. Plus it would be a huge feather in his cap to release something ALL the fans can really get behind. I'm not saying its a for sure he will knock it out of the park, but the motivation should be there. I get it, he could phone it in and we get a mediocre effort at best. I just think we could get a solid effort.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well I know he has never been a great finisher but that is why I think there's a chance. I think he knows that is what everyone thinks about him. So he will/should be extremely motivated to close this out strong and shut up all the critics. Plus it would be a huge feather in his cap to release something ALL the fans can really get behind. I'm not saying its a for sure he will knock it out of the park, but the motivation should be there. I get it, he could phone it in and we get a mediocre effort at best. I just think we could get a solid effort.

Yeah but there’s nothingness to work with...can’t make a cake without eggs

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Yeah but there’s nothingness to work with...can’t make a cake without eggs

You can if you have...imagination.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can if you have...imagination.

Is that like “magic”??

...we got a problem here

 

[erasure fan1]

Yeah but there’s nothingness to work with...can’t make a cake without eggs

I still think the force awakens introduced some interesting things. Rian decided to do his own thing, not for the betterment of the franchise in my opinion. But I still think there is enough there (with some ret-conning for sure) to pull it out and give a satisfying end. There will always be that what if feeling with this trilogy but it could end acceptably with some creative vision.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I still think the force awakens introduced some interesting things. Rian decided to do his own thing, not for the betterment of the franchise in my opinion. But I still think there is enough there (with some ret-conning for sure) to pull it out and give a satisfying end. There will always be that what if feeling with this trilogy but it could end acceptably with some creative vision.

I don’t know if you heard...

But force awakens was a reboot that swapped 4 iconic characters for 4 less interesting, underdeveloped ones...

And then they let “kid shoved into the locker” do 8....

So that’s how you cook a poo soufflé

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Unless you’re Darth Vader explaining how you went from being a little kid with great promise and gifts to ending up as Darth Vader.

What if half of those absolutely sucked?

See we have a “multifaceted” problem here...