Will IOA ever surpass a Disney park attendance wise?

[danlb_2000]

Looking over the recent attendance figures it makes me chuckle at how dominant still the Disney parks in Florida really are. Even with the recent Potter addition at Universal, they are still nowhere near Disney in terms of attendance.

But with the recent, constant barrage of unsubstantiated rumors about DHS receiving a repackaging, it still outdraws IOA by a huge margin.

So much so, even with the second phase of Potter opening soon, I highly doubt it will come close to DHS from a annual attendance standpoint, in fact I think I have a bet with someone here it won't. Iam that confident.

How so?

My belief is this, Potter, anyway people want to slice it, has appealed to the people it will appeal to, the second phase of Potter will not bring in double digit increases due to the fact the fan base who seriously wanted to see it already did. If Potter was this amazing property that Disney passed on, and lets face it, by their recent track record of success surrounding picking and choosing IP's, I have to give Disney the benefit of the doubt for passing on Potter, wouldn't the army of Potter fans have felt the need to see Potter by now? Would real Potter fans abstain from going for the chance of possibly a second phase opening?

I highly, highly doubt it.

Phase 2 of Potter will increase gate numbers a little more, but it will still be far behind the numbers the weakest Disney park in Florida will produce, and considering all Disney parks in Florida will surpass 10 million this year, and IOA never hitting even 8 million in guests, I would fearlessly forecast we won't be seeing IOA surpassing a Disney park in Florida anytime soon.


Jimmy Thick- Raw numbers and the preference of the general public don't lie now.

You seem to be just focusing on Harry Potter, but let's not forget that Uni did the Despicable Me attraction, Transformers, the Simpsons area, and has new lower price hotel in the works. There are also very strong rumors that more is coming beyond this over the next several years. So even if they have maxed out on Potter, and the fact that they have held on to the initial Potter bump and increased attendance even further in 2012 would indicate that they haven't, there are going to be other attractions that may attract different groups.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Potter isn't a timeless property like say Star Wars. I feel the IP will run its course within 10, maybe 15 years and Universal will be forced to start over again, if they are still a player. Disney will keep chugging along, Star Wars alone will be a huge revenue stream until the earth explodes.

But back to topic...

If there is any truth to the new Potter area being built within the Universal Studio's park, you can rest assured Uni will never beat a Disney park in attendance. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul in the theme park world, there will be a forced drop off from IOA if this is the case. If Uni was smart they would have put all the Potter stuff together, but if they are truly splitting things up, that's a head scratcher.

I can only see another huge attendance increase at Uni if and when a Star Wars land is completed at DHS, that will be a huge boost to Uni's numbers.


Jimmy Thick- But never the other way around.

 

[Tom Morrow]

People would give it it's due credit if it had the same effect on them Disney has. But it's just not the same.

No. People are giving credit by increasing Universal's attendance and profits tremendously while cutting into WDW's bottom line. It is already happening.

Universal can add as many Potter rides as it wants, but it's still just Potter. It's not timeless and people will get bored of it eventually. People are also forgetting that whilst they've added attractions they've taken some classics away. For me, Jaws being shut down for another Harry Potter ride is a huge negative. And if we want to talk stale lets talk about Men In Black.

Oh, the old "Potter is just a fad" argument. It's the best selling novel series of all time, the movies are extremely successful, and there is possibility for the franchise to expand in the future.

The thing about Universal removing old attractions is, obviously they don't have the space that WDW has, so they are choosing to sacrifice older, under-performing attractions for new experiences. Expect Twister and T2 to be on their way out soon as well before you mention that they are "outdated." Meanwhile, Disney, the one with huge expansion space, has how many unused facilities just sitting in the parks? How many attractions that absolutely NOBODY likes just taking up space? How many attractions that are long past their prime??

Oh, Men in Black? You mean the series that just had a new, well received movie 1 year ago? You mean the ride that is the best of the "shooting" rides? That one??

But nah, these currently popular fads don't really do it for me. I mean, does anybody in their 20s even know who Doctor Sseus is? Kids in 10 years won't.

For me, Disney just does what Universal does better. And I include MGM in that.

Doctor Seuss books are still like the leading choice for toddlers to read. There was just a movie about the Lorax. I mean, really? Get a better argument. And you're right, Disney never cashes in on a current fad! Oh wait, they do, sometimes when its past its prime!

Seriously, are you a Disney internet plant?

 

[Jimmy Thick]

You seem to be just focusing on Harry Potter, but let's not forget that Uni did the Despicable Me attraction, Transformers, the Simpsons area, and has new lower price hotel in the works. There are also very strong rumors that more is coming beyond this over the next several years. So even if they have maxed out on Potter, and the fact that they have held on to the initial Potter bump and increased attendance even further in 2012 would indicate that they haven't, there are going to be other attractions that may attract different groups.

Potter is Universal's primary focus, as it should be. The other attractions you mentioned receive hardly any notice outside of Florida I would bet the general public, those you do not endlessly read the net for theme park news, have no idea those attractions even exist.


Jimmy Thick- I myself forgot about the Despicable Me attraction myself...

 

[Tom Morrow]

Potter isn't a timeless property like say Star Wars. I feel the IP will run its course within 10, maybe 15 years and Universal will be forced to start over again, if they are still a player. Disney will keep chugging along, Star Wars alone will be a huge revenue stream until the earth explodes.

But back to topic...

If there is any truth to the new Potter area being built within the Universal Studio's park, you can rest assured Uni will never beat a Disney park in attendance. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul in the theme park world, there will be a forced drop off from IOA if this is the case. If Uni was smart they would have put all the Potter stuff together, but if they are truly splitting things up, that's a head scratcher.

I can only see another huge attendance increase at Uni if and when a Star Wars land is completed at DHS, that will be a huge boost to Uni's numbers.


Jimmy Thick- But never the other way around.

You literally do not know any of this and are just making big assumptions.

If the internet had been bigger back in the day, the same thing would have been said about any attraction based on a current hit franchise. "Oh, Indiana Jones? That isn't timeless. That's just a fad."

Edit: and EVEN IF you are right and Potter popularity dwindles away. So what? Uni recognized risk-reward, took a leap, built something, made a great product, and is reaping the benefits of it right now and will be for at LEAST several years to come.

Oh, but it may not be popular in 15 years so it was all pointless!

 

[BryceM]

Potter isn't a timeless property like say Star Wars. I feel the IP will run its course within 10, maybe 15 years and Universal will be forced to start over again, if they are still a player. Disney will keep chugging along, Star Wars alone will be a huge revenue stream until the earth explodes.

But back to topic...

If there is any truth to the new Potter area being built within the Universal Studio's park, you can rest assured Uni will never beat a Disney park in attendance. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul in the theme park world, there will be a forced drop off from IOA if this is the case. If Uni was smart they would have put all the Potter stuff together, but if they are truly splitting things up, that's a head scratcher.

I can only see another huge attendance increase at Uni if and when a Star Wars land is completed at DHS, that will be a huge boost to Uni's numbers.


Jimmy Thick- But never the other way around.

Potter has been around for a while now. The books will continue to be passed down for generations and generations. I grew up reading the books and I can't wait for the day that I introduce the first Harry Potter book to my children. I'm positive that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

That's really all I have to say. I think both Potter and Star Wars can be considered timeless.

 

[BryceM]

Potter is Universal's primary focus, as it should be. The other attractions you mentioned receive hardly any notice outside of Florida I would bet the general public, those you do not endlessly read the net for theme park news, have no idea those attractions even exist.


Jimmy Thick- I myself forgot about the Despicable Me attraction myself...

I doubt that. Universal's "Vacation Like You Mean It" commercials really show a lot of the Minions and the Despicable Me ride.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

That's a silly reason to NEVER visit again.

What is? Because the day I spent there was utterly awful and I don't feel like wasting $80-90 again?

No thank you, Disney gets crowded and it rains...but on those days there are other options...I couldn't believe it when the worker told us they only had 3-4 attractions open...Disney spoils me, if it's raining I go watch one of the movies...or Haunted Mansion, or Pirates, or Space Mountain, or etc....

 

[cynic710]

i go and i visit both parks every time i go to orlando, and enjoy things different at them. I go to disney because i like the nostalgia and detail of what the disney world is supposed to be. I like uni for some more thrills and the like. Do i expect to find what i like about uni at disney or disney at uni? no way. so whats the real argument? that the disney faithful arent buying into the current state of uni expansions and updates? so what? say what you want but disney is still vastly more popular than uni parks, its just a fact of the matter. you can literally go anywhere in the world and someone will recognise mickey mouse. does that take away from the fantastic work uni has been doing over the last 5 years? no, not in the slightest.

lets just all agree that between both companies we as paying customers are going to get a lot to enjoy for a long time from both places.

 

[cheezbat]

I'm glad some of you seem to hate Universal.
Good...stay out of the parks. The less busy, the easier it is for me to get on rides.

 

[Kitchandro]

Um? Who doesn't know who Dr. Seuss is? That land has been there since IOA opened in 1999 and it certainly isn't stale. And Men In Black stale? A MIB movie was released in 2011. And as long as the attraction is awesome, I don't really care about the IP. Men In Black is probably the best "shooter" dark-ride ever created. Even without the shooting element it's still a pretty awesome dark-ride.

I'm not even going to touch on the topic of "Potter getting old and people getting bored of it". I've gotten into that debate too many times... Lets just say that as long as it's executed properly, people will come. Universal did WWoHP perfectly, and it won't matter if people get bored with Potter because it's still a freakin' awesome land.

I'm pretty sure barely anyone in England knows what it is. And the next generation certainly won't. Now Dumbo, everyone's heard of him. The films Disney rides are based on are generally timeless.

Men In Black was an average film and the ride is fitting of that. Extremely long queues for a disappointing ride that constantly breaks down. I'd even go as far as to say it's a poor man's Buzz Lightyear, and that's a kids ride.

Harry Potter will not last as a phenomenon. It is not a timeless classic and there will not be kids dragging their parents to see it in 15 years time and the teenagers won't be bothered either. Even the people who like it now will probably realise it's overrated and overdone in 15 years.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

Yeah for people that like IOA and Uni that's fine...to each their own...all I'm saying is...Potter seemed like it wasn't designed to handle the crowds...and the park has nothing to do in inclement weather.

 

[Kitchandro]

No. People are giving credit by increasing Universal's attendance and profits tremendously while cutting into WDW's bottom line. It is already happening.

Oh, the old "Potter is just a fad" argument. It's the best selling novel series of all time, the movies are extremely successful, and there is possibility for the franchise to expand in the future.

The thing about Universal removing old attractions is, obviously they don't have the space that WDW has, so they are choosing to sacrifice older, under-performing attractions for new experiences. Expect Twister and T2 to be on their way out soon as well before you mention that they are "outdated." Meanwhile, Disney, the one with huge expansion space, has how many unused facilities just sitting in the parks? How many attractions that absolutely NOBODY likes just taking up space? How many attractions that are long past their prime??

Oh, Men in Black? You mean the series that just had a new, well received movie 1 year ago? You mean the ride that is the best of the "shooting" rides? That one??

Doctor Seuss books are still like the leading choice for toddlers to read. There was just a movie about the Lorax. I mean, really? Get a better argument. And you're right, Disney never cashes in on a current fad! Oh wait, they do, sometimes when its past its prime!

Seriously, are you a Disney internet plant?

Firstly, I've never heard of a Disney fan more anti-Disney than you. I don't know whether you're just negative or whether you're actually more of a Universal man. You even tried to defend their fastpass sytem for God's sake. But I digress....

People aren't going to say Universal/IOA are better just because you obviously think so. No idea why people think there would be any bias attached to Disney if it wasn't for the fact they liked the parks more. This isn't sports, nobody has a team who they make out is really good but who are actually not. If people aren't foaming at the mouth over Universal it's probably because they don't like it as much as Disney. I won't give Universal credit for their obsession with Harry Potter because I don't agree with it.

Harry Potter is hugely popular with kids and young teenagers. But they will grow up and realise it isn't that great. The kids and young teens of the future will not be bothered by it. Certainly nobody wants to see a great theme park dominated by it.

Oh yes the famous 'well recieved' recent Men In Black film. I couldn't remember it existed until you just brought it up, must have been a classic like the first 3 then. Even the first film was pretty average, the others hardly worth watching, and the ride is in fact rubbish, especially for the queue. So yeh, it's an outdated ride, they could have replaced it with something better, they could even have replaced it with Potter if they liked, instead of messing with good rides.

Genuinely no clue what Doctor Seuss is. What the hell is a Lorax? What lingo are you speaking son? I don't even think I need to debate about that. That will NEVER last. Kids over here arent even interested in it now.

I never said Disney didn't cash in on a fad, but they haven't overdone it and ruined good attractions to the extent Universal has. At least the Avatar Land is sort of out of the way.

 

[draybook]

Yeah, Disney doesn't overdo fads. Now If you'll all just look THAT way I'll just throw a tarp over this piece of crap Pirates "thing" sitting over here next to Toy Story Mania........

And Buzz Lightyear better than MIB? No, just no. The MIB set is way more detailed and you compete against other people. Heck, even the queue is better. And I guess we're lucky because we've never had MIB break down.

 

[Kitchandro]

You literally do not know any of this and are just making big assumptions.

If the internet had been bigger back in the day, the same thing would have been said about any attraction based on a current hit franchise. "Oh, Indiana Jones? That isn't timeless. That's just a fad."

Edit: and EVEN IF you are right and Potter popularity dwindles away. So what? Uni recognized risk-reward, took a leap, built something, made a great product, and is reaping the benefits of it right now and will be for at LEAST several years to come.

Oh, but it may not be popular in 15 years so it was all pointless!

I think you're missing the point here.

Indiana Jones was quality, Harry Potter wasn't. The first 4 were good, then it tailed off, and we're left with an Ok series that I'm not interested in from now on.

I'm sorry that a load of people currently love Harry Potter, but this doesn't cut any ice with me. I'm not bothered about it at all and definitely do not care if Universal make a load of money out of it.

What does matter to me is what I like in the parks. And I don't like Universal dominating it and as a result one great ride based on a classic film has gone and another great ride has been changed for the worse.

Putting so much into this Harry Potter thing at the expense of attractions I liked is very off putting. That is one of the reasons why I won't kiss their behind just because they're building a load of new attractions.

And before you start ranting about Disney doing the same and being rubbish I don't agree with some of Disney's changes either. But they've not committed this crime as badly and overall they're still superior parks based on a whole host of criteria. But excuses excuses eh, Universal have less room so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt? Nah, you're alright.

Get it now? Or won't you be happy until the entire world agrees that Universal wipes the floor with Disney and Harry Potter was the greatest series ever.

 

[Kitchandro]

Yeah, Disney doesn't overdo fads. Now If you'll all just look THAT way I'll just throw a tarp over this piece of crap Pirates "thing" sitting over here next to Toy Story Mania........

And Buzz Lightyear better than MIB? No, just no. The MIB set is way more detailed and you compete against other people. Heck, even the queue is better. And I guess we're lucky because we've never had MIB break down.

The queue is atrocious. It's the slowest, most boring piece of poo. And that is a factor, like it or not, to how good the ride is. The ride would be fine if the queue was basically a walk on like Buzzz Lightyear. Buzz Lightyear would be awful if the queue was as long and boring as MIB.

I think I've been on it twice and the gun didn't even work for one of them. Both times it broke down a couple of times each (this is after about 2 hours queuing).

 

[draybook]

Ok we get it, you're in the Pixie Army along with some of the others here. That's cool. I prefer to just enjoy what life has to offer, no matter what brand name is on the product.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Edit: and EVEN IF you are right and Potter popularity dwindles away. So what? Uni recognized risk-reward, took a leap, built something, made a great product, and is reaping the benefits of it right now and will be for at LEAST several years to come.

That's a great anti-Potter swatter. Even IF Potter fades away - which I don't think it will - it will still have had a brilliant run at UNI of fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years.
WWoHP's succes does not at all depend on how popular it will be for a new generation in the year 2035. Does it matter if Elvis will sell any records in 2035?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I think both Disney and Universal employees are great and really go out of their way to make sure the guests are happy.

I too was met with great friendliness at both resorts.

Then again, when in Orlando I'm happy as a bird and I fly from attraction to attraction on little happy wings, so people would be friendly to me! Still, if there is one area in which WDW hasn't deteriorated it is friendliness of cast members. Lots of sweethearts everywhere, from cleaners to shop assistants to princesses!

 

[Tom Morrow]

Men In Black was an average film and the ride is fitting of that. Extremely long queues for a disappointing ride that constantly breaks down. I'd even go as far as to say it's a poor man's Buzz Lightyear, and that's a kids ride.

I frequent Universal (and Disney) and I have never seen MIB's line longer than 20 minutes. It is not a ride that is even prone to breaking down (although disney has plenty of those!). Oh, and it's a poor man's Buzz Lightyear? Buzz is atrocious (especially compared to TSMM and Disneyland's AstroBlasters), the mounted guns barely work, the targets barely respond, the vehicles don't stay aimed where you want them to. To say MIB is a "poor man's Buzz" is such a pixie-dust snorting delusion that I can't believe I'm typing this. And I'm sure plenty of people on here will defend on me on this. And regardless of what you thought of the MIB sequels, the original is up there with classics like Jurassic Park. Or is it only okay for Disney to keep attractions based on old movie classics?

Firstly, I've never heard of a Disney fan more anti-Disney than you. I don't know whether you're just negative or whether you're actually more of a Universal man. You even tried to defend their fastpass sytem for God's sake. But I digress....

I really do like both, but WDW/TDO have given us plenty to be negative about for one thing, and two I'm just countering your ridiculous Universal bashing with examples of how something at Disney is just as bad, if not worse. But Disney is MAGICAL!!11 so it's okay!

Oh, and if you REALLY want me to go into huge depth as to why Universal's express system is superior (I absolutely promise you I know more about this and the inner workings than you do), I will. In short, Disney's Fastpass is a convoluted mess that gives you the illusion you are benefiting from using it, but really you have to use it because it is the actual normal line. In the end it means MORE work to ride the same amount that you would be able to do if it didn't even exist. It enables you to spend more time shopping and eating, on the other hand, and that... is why it exists as it does. Universal's Express Pass may cost money, but you are getting an actual benefit over people who don't buy it, and you get every ride, and you can enter those rides at the time you choose. Universal also does not dedicate 80-90% of their ride's capacity to Express Pass holders, so it has much less of an impact on the standby line.

Genuinely no clue what Doctor Seuss is. What the hell is a Lorax? What lingo are you speaking son? I don't even think I need to debate about that. That will NEVER last. Kids over here arent even interested in it now.

Alright... are you trolling?

I never said Disney didn't cash in on a fad, but they haven't overdone it and ruined good attractions to the extent Universal has. At least the Avatar Land is sort of out of the way.

What do you call Cars Land then? Harry Potter has more staying power than the Cars franchise, and nobody outside of young boys is really strongly attached to the Cars franchise. Having said that... I think another point about WWoHP that people miss is that, it's popularity and praise isn't even necessarily that its about Harry Potter. It's that they gave us a state of the art kick- ride, delicious food and drinks that you can't get anywhere else, and one of the most detailed theme park "lands" ever. People will like something if its done well. Like Cars Land. I'm guessing a majority of Cars Land's visitors aren't drawn in by the Cars franchise, but the quality.

Indiana Jones was quality, Harry Potter wasn't. The first 4 were good, then it tailed off, and we're left with an Ok series that I'm not interested in from now on.

First of all, this is all your opinion, and remember that they were books before movies, and all of the books have been well received. I never said the Harry Potter franchise is the greatest thing ever. I never said Forbidden Journey "wipes the floor" with anything at WDW. But it's certainly more impressive than any attraction WDW has given us in years.