Will DCA be a Complete, Well Rounded and Full Day Park after the New Rides Open?

[Professortango1]

Doubt that...

If Disney thought that was a problem they'd be building more modern bus bar attractions in all their Parks. And since they are cheap you'd know Disney would build those over any other attraction if they thought it was worth it. So since they haven't built one in a long time clearly they don't think modern audiences will be receptive to them.


You still miss the point, DCA already has had these type of attractions and are moving away from them. The actual bus bar attraction you are looking for is getting torn down in the spring. They are clearly trying to differentiate DCA from DL even more. Which is why you don't find a 1-for-1 attraction type and land type in DCA compared to DL. DL will have the FL Dark Rides and other classic attractions, while DCA will have the more modern attractions based on more modern ride systems.

The problem isn't that Disney isn't copying Disneyland, the problem is that particular aspect of Disneyland is very successful for a reason. A small courtyard with a bank of 4 quality C-Ticket darkrides that average about 10-20 minute line waits and a scattering of flat rides and some vibe rides makes Fantasyland the perfect spot for families to feel like they get their bang for their buck. They park the stroller once, can do every attraction in the land with all family (except for Matterhorn which exists on the fringes,) each ride has manageable waits, each ride feels unique and quaint, and you can easily spend a majority of your day there.

DCA needs a place to enjoy a bunch of attractions without walking to some other remote corner. Cars Land almost achieves this, but the attractions are too spread out and they still need a darkride or two. Heck, I'd love to see Luigi's replaced with a darkride to help balance out RSR. Avengers Campus can also hope to satisfy a similar itch for tweens, but the wait times and expectations are inflated to D/E levels with the lineup.

The pier is trying to act as the FL currently and I think it could work, but the flat rides are way too spread out. Nobody wants to park the stroller by Jesse's Critter Carousel then walk the kids around to Emotional Whirlwind, then to SSS, then JJ, then GSS, then GZ, then Mermaid. That's a huge lap for families. And only giving us flat rides and a one inflated darkride that has been inflated beyond the quaint and easy to do and into a lackluster D. If they moved JJ to the Screamin' Helix and moved Zephyr to near the Incredicoaster Launch, and added 2-3 busbar rides, you'd have a great little corner of the park.

 

[Disney Irish]

The problem isn't that Disney isn't copying Disneyland, the problem is that particular aspect of Disneyland is very successful for a reason. A small courtyard with a bank of 4 quality C-Ticket darkrides that average about 10-20 minute line waits and a scattering of flat rides and some vibe rides makes Fantasyland the perfect spot for families to feel like they get their bang for their buck. They park the stroller once, can do every attraction in the land with all family (except for Matterhorn which exists on the fringes,) each ride has manageable waits, each ride feels unique and quaint, and you can easily spend a majority of your day there.

DCA needs a place to enjoy a bunch of attractions without walking to some other remote corner. Cars Land almost achieves this, but the attractions are too spread out and they still need a darkride or two. Heck, I'd love to see Luigi's replaced with a darkride to help balance out RSR. Avengers Campus can also hope to satisfy a similar itch for tweens, but the wait times and expectations are inflated to D/E levels with the lineup.

The pier is trying to act as the FL currently and I think it could work, but the flat rides are way too spread out. Nobody wants to park the stroller by Jesse's Critter Carousel then walk the kids around to Emotional Whirlwind, then to SSS, then JJ, then GSS, then GZ, then Mermaid. That's a huge lap for families. And only giving us flat rides and a one inflated darkride that has been inflated beyond the quaint and easy to do and into a lackluster D. If they moved JJ to the Screamin' Helix and moved Zephyr to near the Incredicoaster Launch, and added 2-3 busbar rides, you'd have a great little corner of the park.

I understand what you guys are saying, I really do, and in some ways I agree with the sentiment even if I don't agree with the suggestions. However as stated a bunch of times now, this just isn't what Disney is wanting to do with DCA at this point, whether we think that is right or not. Plus as mentioned also a bunch of times this isn't what Disney has done in any of their Parks in at least several decades. So its not like this is some "new" phenomenon that recently happened. I remember a conversation had on the MC forums from over a decade ago on a same topic on why Disney doesn't build these type of simple dark rides anymore. Heck I think if you go back almost 20 years you can find the same conversation had on this very site. So again its not a new topic, this is something that has been discussed for a long time now on fan sites. And probably has been discussed in relation to DCA many many times.

I think the only hope for those that want these type of rides is that Disney will do what you and the few others are suggesting in the new future expansion areas such as Simba lot.

 

[mickEblu]

The problem isn't that Disney isn't copying Disneyland, the problem is that particular aspect of Disneyland is very successful for a reason. A small courtyard with a bank of 4 quality C-Ticket darkrides that average about 10-20 minute line waits and a scattering of flat rides and some vibe rides makes Fantasyland the perfect spot for families to feel like they get their bang for their buck. They park the stroller once, can do every attraction in the land with all family (except for Matterhorn which exists on the fringes,) each ride has manageable waits, each ride feels unique and quaint, and you can easily spend a majority of your day there.

DCA needs a place to enjoy a bunch of attractions without walking to some other remote corner. Cars Land almost achieves this, but the attractions are too spread out and they still need a darkride or two. Heck, I'd love to see Luigi's replaced with a darkride to help balance out RSR. Avengers Campus can also hope to satisfy a similar itch for tweens, but the wait times and expectations are inflated to D/E levels with the lineup.

The pier is trying to act as the FL currently and I think it could work, but the flat rides are way too spread out. Nobody wants to park the stroller by Jesse's Critter Carousel then walk the kids around to Emotional Whirlwind, then to SSS, then JJ, then GSS, then GZ, then Mermaid. That's a huge lap for families. And only giving us flat rides and a one inflated darkride that has been inflated beyond the quaint and easy to do and into a lackluster D. If they moved JJ to the Screamin' Helix and moved Zephyr to near the Incredicoaster Launch, and added 2-3 busbar rides, you'd have a great little corner of the park.

Not to mention that JJ has a 40 inch height requirement and GSS / SSS have 42 inch height requirements. So most kids under 4 aren’t getting on any of those three rides.

Fantasyland is great for families with young kids and even if the modern building codes won’t allow for exactly the same thing I don’t see why you couldn’t do a new land with one Big E ticket, 2-3 FL style dark rides (even if they re a little bigger) and a flat ride or two. They can obviously. And families with young kids would love it. But they prefer to build the hyper immersive lands with two big rides to sell more merch, themed food and LL’s. I think you can have the best of both worlds though.

 

[Brer Panther]

If Disney thought that was a problem they'd be building more modern bus bar attractions in all their Parks. And since they are cheap you'd know Disney would build those over any other attraction if they thought it was worth it. So since they haven't built one in a long time clearly they don't think modern audiences will be receptive to them.

What if they were busbar dark rides based on really popular franchises/movies, like Moana, Frozen, and Inside Out? Wouldn't the lines still be long because of how popular the franchises are? The success of cheap projects like the Frozen Sing-Along seems to imply that such an attraction would probably be successful based on the IP alone.

 

[Disney Irish]

What if they were busbar dark rides based on really popular franchises/movies, like Moana, Frozen, and Inside Out? Wouldn't the lines still be long because of how popular the franchises are? The success of cheap projects like the Frozen Sing-Along seems to imply that such an attraction would probably be successful based on the IP alone.

Not necessarily. IP alone doesn't bring in guests, its the experience of the attraction that does too. The Sing-Along at DHS does well but the same at DCA closed due to it losing demand, which got changed to Philharmagic (which itself doesn't have a lot of demand either).

So again just because it has IP attached doesn't mean it brings in guests consistently. And again one has to wonder if its such a crowd pleaser and its cheap why wouldn't Disney be building these in every park they own, or OLC be demanding them for TDL? It must be because they have data that shows its not as likely to bring in guests outside of FL.

 

[CaptinEO]

DCA needs something like Disneyland's fantasyland. It doesn't need more thrill rides or low capacity family dark rides.

It needs high capacity simple family dark rides and probably 4-5 of them. Disney seems to not understand this and keeps making big E Tickets for a park that needs something for kids and families.

 

[Brer Panther]

The Sing-Along at DHS does well but the same at DCA closed due to it losing demand

I'm pretty sure they actually closed the Sing-Along at California Adventure because they decided to put a Frozen show in the Hyperion Theater and knew it'd be redundant to have two Frozen shows in the same park.

It must be because they have data that shows its not as likely to bring in guests outside of FL.

Where would they be getting this data? Was there a busbar dark ride built before the "all dark rides must be trackless or boat rides" mandate apparently got started that was a colossal failure and they came to the conclusion that the ride type, not the execution, was the reason?

Was it Superstar Limo?

 

[mickEblu]

DCA needs something like Disneyland's fantasyland. It doesn't need more thrill rides or low capacity family dark rides.

It needs high capacity simple family dark rides and probably 4-5 of them. Disney seems to not understand this and keeps making big E Tickets for a park that needs something for kids and families.

I agree with the sentiment but when was the last time Disney built any small dark rides like that worldwide? I’m not sure if it’s due to modern regulations , trying to meet guest expectations or trying to maximize LL sales. Maybe all 3. Or perhaps it’s just a symptom of the rise of the Single IP land with the focus being on merch/ themed food and a big ride or two. Most likely a little bit of all the above.

Fortunately Coco and Avatar will not have any height requirements and should both have decent to good capacity.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm pretty sure they actually closed the Sing-Along at California Adventure because they decided to put a Frozen show in the Hyperion Theater and knew it'd be redundant to have two Frozen shows in the same park.

Maybe, but its not like the place was full all the time by the end, its popularity waned by that point. So maybe also a bit of a coincidence. Because they were shoving a bunch of Frozen experiences around DCA at that time.

Where would they be getting this data? Was there a busbar dark ride built before the "all dark rides must be trackless or boat rides" mandate apparently got started that was a colossal failure and they came to the conclusion that the ride type, not the execution, was the reason?

Was it Superstar Limo?

Where does Disney get any of their data for making decisions? I assume a bunch of surveys, industry information such as competition information, from IAAPA, and the like. For example when was the last time a modern busbar attraction was even talked about at IAAPA? I'm genuinely asking because I don't see any major theme park company adding them into any park around the world. I mean maybe I've missed them and just don't see all the overseas parks new stuff over the last couple years, but I haven't heard about any being added recently.

If it was just based on Superstar they would have just ripped it out and not rethemed it.

 

[Brer Panther]

I feel like it's probably a combination of the obsession with Single IP lands (thanks, Wizarding World!) and the obsession with making all of their attractions high-tech because that impresses people. Trackless rides are more high-tech, ergo they're automatically better, I guess?

Plus, trackless dark rides allow you to have the vehicles park in front of a screen, which I'm sure is cheaper than building an actual show scene.

 

[mickEblu]

Plus, trackless dark rides allow you to have the vehicles park in front of a screen, which I'm sure is cheaper than building an actual show scene.

Maybe but I'm not convinced something like Tangled in Tokyo costs more than MMRR in any meaningful way or at all.

 

[Disney Irish]

I feel like it's probably a combination of the obsession with Single IP lands (thanks, Wizarding World!) and the obsession with making all of their attractions high-tech because that impresses people. Trackless rides are more high-tech, ergo they're automatically better, I guess?

Plus, trackless dark rides allow you to have the vehicles park in front of a screen, which I'm sure is cheaper than building an actual show scene.

I'm sure all of that plays a role, plus a multitude of other reasons include what has been mentioned here already.

As for whether its cheaper to have a screen over a small show scene like you see in the classic FL dark rides, dunno. I can't imagine that the small close up scenes of a traditional bus bar dark ride are all that expensive.

 

[CaptinEO]

I agree with the sentiment but when was the last time Disney built any small dark rides like that worldwide? I’m not sure if it’s due to modern regulations , trying to meet guest expectations or trying to maximize LL sales. Maybe all 3. Or perhaps it’s just a symptom of the rise of the Single IP land with the focus being on merch/ themed food and a big ride or two. Most likely a little bit of all the above.

Fortunately Coco and Avatar will not have any height requirements and should both have decent to good capacity.

IMO I think imagineering is so far up its own, that they forgot how to make fun simple rides like this. They always have to talk about technology and innovation, like look how popular those Fantasyland rides are (including Dumbo), no state of the art technology or billion dollar budgets needed.

Building the Coco or Avatar rides will again be more E tickets with huge waits. They need a lot of simple high capacity rides. Monsters Inc was a good fit for this until they added Lightning Lane and now even that is going away.

Bugs Land was great for families with 3 different rides plus shade.

That being said seems whoever is in charge of DCA in the last 10 years or so has not cared about capacity or ops as they choose to retheme areas instead of add to the park. At least Coco won't be replacing a ride.

 

[Phroobar]

Disney could put practically any cheap ride in DCA and people will ride it. They still ride the Golden Zephyr and Jumping Jellyfish. The problem is Imagineering is trying to make a name for themselves with big rides because self proclaimed YouTube influencers demand big things.

 

[CaptinEO]

Disney could put practically any cheap ride in DCA and people will ride it. They still ride the Golden Zephyr and Jumping Jellyfish. The problem is Imagineering is trying to make a name for themselves with big rides because self proclaimed YouTube influencers demand big things.

Also Disney's fault too in addition to their fans. All they talk about is immersion and innovation and technology. They sometimes forget they are running family themeparks and need to stop trying so hard to look cool.

 

[mickEblu]

IMO I think imagineering is so far up its own, that they forgot how to make fun simple rides like this. They always have to talk about technology and innovation, like look how popular those Fantasyland rides are (including Dumbo), no state of the art technology or billion dollar budgets needed.

Building the Coco or Avatar rides will again be more E tickets with huge waits. They need a lot of simple high capacity rides. Monsters Inc was a good fit for this until they added Lightning Lane and now even that is going away.

Bugs Land was great for families with 3 different rides plus shade.

That being said seems whoever is in charge of DCA in the last 10 years or so has not cared about capacity or ops as they choose to retheme areas instead of add to the park. At least Coco won't be replacing a ride.

Yeah the focus shifting away from fun/ whimsy/ to tech and hyper immersive single IP lands definitely has something to do with it.

Coco and Avatar will be two family dark rides/ boat rides with no heigh requirements that the park desperately needs. High capacity dark ride that’s not an E ticket? That seems kind of niche. What ride at Disneyland would you say fits this description? Do the Fantasyland dark rides have great capacity?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Coco and Avatar will be two family dark rides/ boat rides with no heigh requirements that the park desperately needs.

I don’t think we know this yet - although coco is a fairly safe bet. But still not 100%.

 

[mickEblu]

I don’t think we know this yet - although coco is a fairly safe bet. But still not 100%.

To have no height requirement? No chance it’ll have one

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

I'd fully expect Avatar to have a thrill aspect and height requirement. Coco probably not.

Coco is aimed at family audiences. Avatar is aimed at tween and up. They're not going to make the only Avatar attraction here Nav'i River Ride 2.0.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

To have no height requirement? No chance it’ll have one

I would guess it won’t have one - but we don’t know for sure. All of the cars lands attractions have a height requirement.