Why no ElecTRONica for DHS or PI?

[TP2000]

It will be close to challenging DisneySea after a 25% expansion in Carsland.

I've been to DisneySea a few times, and while that's a very bold statement, it's not too far from the truth. Let's tally it up, just for fun

DCA circa 2012
30 Attractions, Plus 2 Major Stage Shows, 1 Daytime Parade, 1 Night Spectacular
6 E Tickets (Soarin', Grizzly, Screamin', Tower, Radiator Springs Racers, Little Mermaid)
6 D Tickets (Midway Mania, Goofy's Sky School, MuppetVision, ITTBAB, Monsters Inc., Fun Wheel)
10 C Tickets (Zephyr, Swings, Heimlich's, Flik's Flyers, Jellyfish, Redwood Creek, Luigi's Flying Tires, Mater's Junkyard Jamboree, Turtle Talk, Disney Animation Pavilion)
4 B Tickets (Carousel, Red Car Trolley, Tuck N' Roll's, Francis' Boogie)
4 A Tickets (Boudin's, Tortilla Factory, Blue Sky Cellar, Carthay Circle Theater Exhibit/Show?)

DisneySea circa 2012
23 Attractions, Plus 3 Major Stage Shows, 1 Daytime Water Show, 1 Night Spectacular
6 E Tickets (20K Leagues, JTCOTE, Sinbad's, Indy, Stormrider, Tower)
6 D Tickets (Steamers, Midway Mania, Magic Lamp, Aquatopia, Raging Spirits, Gondolas)
5 C Tickets (Jellyfish, Flounder's, Fortress Explorations, Turtle Talk, Balloon Race)
5 B Tickets (Whirlpool, Scuttle's, Carousel, Big City Vehicles, Electric Trolley)
1 A Tickets (Ariel's Playground)

Oh my gosh. I'm amazed at how well DCA stacks up against DisneySea in this tally! Particularly after DCA is done with it's extreme makeover 1.2 Billion dollar beauty treatment in 18 months, the comparison is very competitive. And on paper, DCA pulls ahead in the attraction count with more attractions that involve moving ride vehicles than DisneySea has.

And yet it speaks to the sophistication and very high expectations of SoCal locals that they still consider DCA a weak contender sitting right next door to the flagship Disney theme park with the highest attraction/entertainment count of any other Disney theme park on the planet... Disneyland USA. But even with that, DCA still has to pull out all the stops with stuff like Glow Fest and World of Color and elecTRONica to convince locals to head to DCA instead of Disneyland.

But still, by 2012 it will be hard to argue that DCA isn't a worthy neighbor to the giant gorilla of the Disney empire. As a big DisneySea fan myself, I am really quite surprised by that tally I pulled together up above!

 

[JimboJones123]

I've been to DisneySea a few times, and while that's a very bold statement, it's not too far from the truth. Let's tally it up, just for fun

DCA circa 2012
27 Attractions, 2 Stage Shows, 1 Parade, 1 Night Spectacular
6 E Tickets (Soarin', Grizzly, Screamin', Tower, Radiator Springs Racers, Little Mermaid)
6 D Tickets (Midway Mania, Goofy's Sky School, MuppetVision, ITTBAB, Monsters Inc., Fun Wheel)
10 C Tickets (Zephyr, Swings, Heimlich's, Flik's Flyers, Jellyfish, Redwood Creek, Luigi's Flying Tires, Mater's Junkyard Jamboree, Turtle Talk, Disney Animation Pavilion)
4 B Tickets (Carousel, Red Car Trolley, Tuck N' Roll's, Francis' Boogie)
4 A Tickets (Boudin's, Tortilla Factory, Blue Sky Cellar, Carthay Circle Theater Exhibit/Show?)

DisneySea circa 2012
23 Attractions, 3 Stage Shows, 1 Day Water Show, 1 Night Spectacular
6 E Tickets (20K Leagues, JTCOTE, Sinbad's, Indy, Stormrider, Tower)
6 D Tickets (Steamers, Midway Mania, Magic Lamp, Aquatopia, Raging Spirits, Gondolas)
5 C Tickets (Jellyfish, Flounder's, Fortress Explorations, Turtle Talk, Balloon Race)
5 B Tickets (Whirlpool, Scuttle's, Carousel, Big City Vehicles, Electric Trolley)
1 A Tickets (Ariel's Playground)

Oh my gosh. I'm amazed at how well DCA stacks up against DisneySea in this tally! Particularly after DCA is done with it's extreme makeover beauty treatment in 18 months, the comparison is very competitive. And on paper, DCA pulls ahead in the attraction count with more attractions that involve moving ride vehicles than DisneySea has.

And yet it speaks to the sophistication and very high expectations of SoCal locals that they still consider DCA a weak contender sitting right next door to the flagship Disney theme park with the highest attraction/entertainment count of any other Disney theme park on the planet... Disneyland USA. But even with that, DCA still has to pull out all the stops with stuff like Glow Fest and World of Color and elecTRONica to convince locals to head to DCA instead of Disneyland.

But still, by 2012 it will be hard to argue that DCA isn't a worthy neighbor to the giant gorilla of the Disney empire. As a big DisneySea fan myself, I am really quite surprised by that tally I pulled together up above!

Right on! Now, I really want a passport. I try to block Tokyo Disney out of my mind so I don't know what I am missing.

 

[_Scar]

Yes. DCA is totally catching TDS. OLC better watch out.


DHS/DAK are probably worthy neighbors to DL imo. TDS, hell yes- no questions, not imo- this is fact. DCA.... hey, it has a lot of rides.....does that make it good?


It's not all about the ride count.
-sincerely,
DAK super fan

 

[askmike1]

It's not all about the ride count.

Thank you. Quantity does not equal quality. When something is done well, you know it. Not by the number of attractions it contains, not even by the number of E-Tickets it contains... but how it all works together, and how well the story is told through theming.

 

[TP2000]

DCA.... hey, it has a lot of rides.....does that make it good?


It's not all about the ride count.
-sincerely,
DAK super fan

No, a ride count on paper doesn't make it good. DisneySea has some amazing eye candy and lavish detailing. Everything there is super quality.

But it's quite arguable that everything added to DCA since 2008 has been of DisneySea level quality. The finishes, detailing, materials, themeing that have been added to DCA are quite a huge improvement, and reach a DisneySea level in many places. This will only continue through 2011 and 2012. Look at the difference between a corner of Paradise Pier when DCA opened in 2001, which was cheap and bland and ugly...

Southwest corner of Paradise Pier circa 2001

Versus what it became in 2008, with the types of lavish detail and quality work that all of DCA has been getting in the 1.2 Billion dollar extreme makeover

Southwest corner of Paradise Pier circa 2008

There's a long list of sins being erased in DCA from 2009 to 2012, and everything that has shown up thus far is about 1,000% better than what it replaced from 2001. The quality is clearly at a DisneySea level, or at least very close to it.

 

[_Scar]

No, a ride count on paper doesn't make it good. DisneySea has some amazing eye candy and lavish detailing. Everything there is super quality.

But it's quite arguable that everything added to DCA since 2008 has been of DisneySea level quality. The finishes, detailing, materials, themeing that have been added to DCA are quite a huge improvement, and reach a DisneySea level in many places. This will only continue through 2011 and 2012. Look at the difference between a corner of Paradise Pier when DCA opened in 2001, which was cheap and bland and ugly...

Southwest corner of Paradise Pier circa 2001

Versus what it became in 2008, with the types of lavish detail and quality work that all of DCA has been getting in the 1.2 Billion dollar extreme makeover

Southwest corner of Paradise Pier circa 2008


There's a long list of sins being erased in DCA from 2009 to 2012, and everything that has shown up thus far is about 1,000% better than what it replaced from 2001. The quality is clearly at a DisneySea level, or at least very close to it.

Sorry, I would NOT agree with that at all.


This is what TSMM will be in TDS

And this is DCA's

And.... this is Glow Fest

And this is TDS' Bonfire Dance


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIq7fVLGwfI&playnext_from=TL&videos=hDNvb23Ze7s


And this is trolley

And this is TDS' electric vehicle transportation

And this is TLM

And this is TDS' TLM

 

[imagineer boy]

Yes. DCA is totally catching TDS. OLC better watch out.


DHS/DAK are probably worthy neighbors to DL imo. TDS, hell yes- no questions, not imo- this is fact. DCA.... hey, it has a lot of rides.....does that make it good?


It's not all about the ride count.
-sincerely,
DAK super fan

Agreed. While DCA is better than it was when it first opened, it still has problems. The layout is still a little screwey (and has caused problems for WoC's viewing area), you can still see parts of the city from inside the park, and the theme is really starting to drift all over the place. What exactly do Monsters Inc, a bug's life, The Little Mermaid, and a "best of Disney" water show have to do with California?

Just IMHO I wish they'd drop the California theme. Its just not a good theme park theme. Maybe they can find a new theme that ties all the existing stuff together better. I don't know what, but I'm sure there's somthing out there that can work.

 

[TP2000]

Sorry, I would NOT agree with that at all.

Scar, buddy, I've been to Tokyo DisneySea several times in the past few years. I have been to DCA several times in the past few months. I know the difference, so you just have to trust me since you haven't been to either location yet.

DCA circa 2001 had some sections of quality, surrounded by lots of cheap blandness. I was a huge DCA critic from the day I went to my AP Preview in 2001 onward. DisneySea circa 2001 had almost universally amazing quality everywhere. It's a stunning park, with only a few minor flaws.

DCA has changed a great deal in the last two years, and the majority of the changes are still ahead in 2011 and 2012. Everything new they've put into DCA since '08 has been at a quality level I've seen in DisneySea. The change at DCA has been stunning to watch unfold.

And while Midway Mania in DisneySea will be great I'm sure, perhaps even plussed from the American versions, it is being plopped into a quiet little corner themed to a New England fishing village right out of a Murder She Wrote episode. (With a big erupting volcano behind it, naturally) The phrase "shoehorn" comes to mind, but if anyone can pull it off it is OLC. :lol:

DisneySea Cape Cod section of American Waterfront - Future Gateway to Midway Mania

 

[_Scar]

Just because I haven't been to either doesn't mean I don't have an eye for quality.

And the playing field is matched. I have no biased towards each. That is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

 

[JimboJones123]

Agreed. While DCA is better than it was when it first opened, it still has problems. The layout is still a little screwey (and has caused problems for WoC's viewing area), you can still see parts of the city from inside the park, and the theme is really starting to drift all over the place. What exactly do Monsters Inc, a bug's life, The Little Mermaid, and a "best of Disney" water show have to do with California?

Just IMHO I wish they'd drop the California theme. Its just not a good theme park theme. Maybe they can find a new theme that ties all the existing stuff together better. I don't know what, but I'm sure there's somthing out there that can work.

If they link ToT with Carsland, the flow issues will be much better. They closed the path from Hollywood Street to ToT when I was there, and there was an alternate entrance from Bugsland. It was havok in Bugsland, and almost downright scary dealing with the extra traffic. If it flows back to Carsland though -- the park would be more like a figure eight meeting a the Warf.

I did find it funny that they ripped out the Mexican place to put in a Chinese place and ripped out the Chinese place to put in a Mexican place. Rumors are that the Mexican place was too busy, and Chinese not busy enough. Now they are balanced. Location. Location. Location. Heard the Chinese place was really good too.

 

[sponono88]

I agree, it's not all about the ride count. But having more attractions can help a park feel less like a half-day experience, and it gives guests more options to choose from. If you're paying a high-price ticket, you want to feel like you're getting your money's worth. Not enough rides and you end up with parks that close early and are practically dead at night.

Also, by having more rides you can afford to close down any ride that needs proper maintenance and work... without worrying about decreasing the ride count and making people upset that the park's headliner attraction is down during their trip.

Sorry, I would NOT agree with that at all.

And this is DCA's

That's the gift shop. Here's the real entrance

And.... this is Glow Fest

This I can kinda agree with.. but it gets a pass because it was a seasonal event so it was meant to be temporary. Didn't exactly look great during the day but was bright and colorful at night (and was extremely popular with guests.)

And this is trolley

More recent concept art

TDS has a beautiful mermaid lagoon. DCA's building, however, was specifically designed to fit into the early boardwalk setting:

Inspired by the Dragon Gorge scenic railway at the long-gone Ocean Park amusement zone in Southern California, the new Little Mermaid ride building has a dramatic arch that will feature relief carvings of frolicking mermaids and King Triton. Nautically themed glass work and tile work is designed to blend with the 1920s and ’30s seaside amusement park motif of the surrounding Paradise Pier area.

 

[JimboJones123]

Scar, the image for Tokyo's TSM seems to be of the same design that you are hating on for GlowFest.

I would really HATE to see TSM DCA look cartoonish like that. It would totally ruin the theme and make it look like Dinoland -- which is universally hated.

Why would DCA need a raised rail system in the park? It may be the absolute flattest Disney park there is.

The Ariel area in the picture at TDS is an ENTIRE LAND! The theme is that you are going under the sea as you enter, not as part of the ride. It would make no themeing sense to go under the sea to enter the building, mystically go ashore to load your clam, then go back under again. They are making great use of the Whoopie movie theater. It wasn't a bad looking building, and sure as heck not worth dumping an additional 5 million into to fancy up much more than they already are.

By the way, you see those Mountains yet? They are looking mighty themed, and in a more appropriate way than to just spruce up a show building. It isn't like it will look like Epcot's Sorin.

 

[TP2000]

Just because I haven't been to either doesn't mean I don't have an eye for quality.

And the playing field is matched. I have no biased towards each. That is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

Got it. But when you do visit Disneyland for the first time (and I hope you'll let us know in the Disneyland forum so we can bombard you with advice and tips!), I think you're going to be amazed at the difference in quality between stuff that opened with DCA in '01 versus what has replaced it. By 2012 very little of the cheap stuff from DCA 2001 will remain however, so the clock is ticking.

This type of stuff that opens in 2012 and is under construction now oozes quality and depth and detail. And from my own personal experience, looks very DisneySea-ish in its quality and good taste.

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2012

Compared to what it is replacing, it's like night and day!

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2001-2010

Which gets us back OT, because it will be interesting to see what becomes of these wildly popular seasonal street parties DCA discovered in 2010 once the entrance area is completely redone and rethemed. Will there be room for this sort of stuff? Will they want to shoehorn something like this into the area in front of Carthay Circle Theater? Will DCA want or need this type of nighttime entertainment once Cars Land opens?

Glow Fest and elecTRONica could become short bookmarks in the history book once the DCA construction projects are over in 2012. We may not see them ever again after New Years. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to see them continue. But the new entrance theme and setup will constrict some of the ideas they've worked with recently at Glow Fest and elecTRONica.

 

[JimboJones123]

Sponono, I totally agree with the rideshutting down statement.

At DL, we didn't even notice Star Tours being down. There were still 5 major thrill rides open in the park.

If RnR or ToT gore down with Star Tours at DHS, or god forbid BOTH, the park is dead! Honestly, 3 hr TSM waits, GMR and the Muppet show art NOT worth paying to go see themselves. Not at all.

Same thing at AK. Winter day, too cold to water ride (which pushes away more guests than thrill rides), if Everest and/or Dinosaur go down, whatis the point? Seriously? Two shows and looking at the same gorillas roll crap around on the side of a mountain? Who cares?

With Toy Story down at DCA, we still experienced a full day and a half at an amazing park and still skipped a few attractions, with many more to come.

Enriching each park experience to the point of making each impossible to do in a single day, or the dreaded half day that AK and DHS are if you skip a show or two (and who really gets anything from going out to the Planet Watch?), is the booster that both parks need.

HISTK playpark could fit two nice kid attractions. Cars spinning and stuff stunt show could fit 3-4 really nice rides, and guess what, you just added an entire half day park experience.

AK-- ugh. What an amazing pit of a wasteland. I am tired of apologists saying how great the theming is. IT IS NOT! Let's make Africa look like a depressing village FOR NO REASON! Wait, let's theme Asia now. Leave a bunch of crap found in the dump on the side of Imagineered cracks on a broken down walkway that looks exactly like the crappy road job that Lightning McQueen hastily put down in Cars and you have your Disney Magic Theming. It could look really nice, but they made it look dumpy, broken down, and depressing on purpose. So cleaver. Plus, the park's attractions pretty much suck. Lame retheme of Indy. A coaster who's themeing doesn't even work, much less even come CLOSE to The Mummy down the street. The lamest -- and shortest water raft ride ever. It is worth going, if nothing more than the two shows and Safari, but I would gladly be out by 2-2:30 every trip and never return.

 

[JimboJones123]

Got it. But when you do visit Disneyland for the first time (and I hope you'll let us know in the Disneyland forum so we can bombard you with advice and tips!), I think you're going to be amazed at the difference in quality between stuff that opened with DCA in '01 versus what has replaced it. By 2012 very little of the cheap stuff from DCA 2001 will remain however, so the clock is ticking.

This type of stuff that opens in 2012 and is under construction now oozes quality and depth and detail. And from my own personal experience, looks very DisneySea-ish in its quality and good taste.

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2012

Compared to what it is replacing, it's like night and day!

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2001-2010

Which gets us back OT, because it will be interesting to see what becomes of these wildly popular seasonal street parties DCA discovered in 2010 once the entrance area is completely redone and rethemed. Will there be room for this sort of stuff? Will they want to shoehorn something like this into the area in front of Carthay Circle Theater? Will DCA want or need this type of nighttime entertainment once Cars Land opens?

Glow Fest and elecTRONica could become short bookmarks in the history book once the DCA construction projects are over in 2012. We may not see them ever again after New Years. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to see them continue. But the new entrance theme and setup will constrict some of the ideas they've worked with recently at Glow Fest and elecTRONica.

I for one am saddened by some of the decisions so far. I really dig the entry mosaic. I would rather see a rethemed Epcot entrance.

Seeing the Sun logo leave the Wheel and replaced by a giant Mickey head is awful, yet they just eliminate the giant simplistic Mickey from the Coaster. At least some of the Sun logo remains on some of the artwork by the Avalon.
The Sun Logo is a perfect fit for the laid back California Attitude.

The park's original concept was, and continues to be the failure of the park. It doesn't match what the great state of California already offers in many ways. Hollywood is by far the best themed part so far. Condor Flats is pointless. Grizzly River area needs a strong theme enhancement like the Boardwalk got. Camping scout Donald could be themed throughout the water ride and the playpark.

The warf and boardwalk fall so far short of the many versions that already exist, that they are basically wallpaper. Why isn't there a Taffy shop on the Boardwalk? Why isn't it the greatest taffy ever?

Again, Carsland will make these DCA complaints disappear. It is looking pretty sweet already.

 

[askmike1]

Uh boy...... I will continue to try and restore sanity on that other thread.... but I think this one is just done for. Sanity and reason.... destroyed. :drevil:

 

[JimboJones123]

Uh boy...... I will continue to try and restore sanity on that other thread.... but I think this one is just done for. Sanity and reason.... destroyed. :drevil:

Seeya!

 

[Thurp]

I know I'm late to this party, har har, but the laserman was awesome! As someone who has spent hours and hours dancing and sweating at PI, I would absolutely love to see something like this anywhere on property.

It's time to go to that building down the street and start removing blinders. Either that, or start firing people, plain and simple.

 

[WDWFigment]

For all those knocking the present/future DCA, have you actually been there recently? I was not all that impressed with images I had seen of it, and had incredibly low expectations. When I actually experienced it, everything about the park exceeded my expectations (except World of Color). There's quite a difference between seeing images of something and seeing it in person, with dimensionality. I'm not saying that anyone is unqualified to wax poetic on the merits of one theme park they've never been to versus another they've never been to, but...wait, actually, I am saying that. Would you compare two foods you've never tried based solely on images? This is somewhat, although not wholly, comparable. Experiencing a theme park is a complete sensory experience that you simply don't get by looking at photos or watching videos.

Oh, and TP2000, I know everyone talks up Disneyland locals as being this discerning group with high expectations. Intuition tells me this must be the case because so much (changes, upkeep, etc.) happens at DLR that must be necessitated by guest demands (and possibly TDA's higher concern for quality as compared to TDO), but when I was there, I just didn't see much of this demographic. I know I just discussed not 'judging a book by its cover' so I might be contradicting myself a bit here, but many of the guests simply did not give the impression that they'd be the discerning, quality obsessed types--at least proportionality-wise. Maybe the vocal minority just has more leverage there?

 

[ToTBellHop]

For all those knocking the present/future DCA, have you actually been there recently? I was not all that impressed with images I had seen of it, and had incredibly low expectations. When I actually experienced it, everything about the park exceeded my expectations (except World of Color). There's quite a difference between seeing images of something and seeing it in person, with dimensionality. I'm not saying that anyone is unqualified to wax poetic on the merits of one theme park they've never been to versus another they've never been to, but...wait, actually, I am saying that. Would you compare two foods you've never tried based solely on images? This is somewhat, although not wholly, comparable. Experiencing a theme park is a complete sensory experience that you simply don't get by looking at photos or watching videos.

Oh, and TP2000, I know everyone talks up Disneyland locals as being this discerning group with high expectations. Intuition tells me this must be the case because so much (changes, upkeep, etc.) happens at DLR that must be necessitated by guest demands (and possibly TDA's higher concern for quality as compared to TDO), but when I was there, I just didn't see much of this demographic. I know I just discussed not 'judging a book by its cover' so I might be contradicting myself a bit here, but many of the guests simply did not give the impression that they'd be the discerning, quality obsessed types--at least proportionality-wise. Maybe the vocal minority just has more leverage there?

When I went to Disneyland, much of the "discerning local crowd" consisted of teenagers being dropped off at the park by their parents, leaving garbage everywhere and looking for a place to hook-up. Disneyland on a Saturday night is VERY different from Disney World on a Saturday night with DL having a clientele similar to that of a Six Flags. On the other hand, Disney World tends to attract reasonably-wealthy vacationers from around the USA and abroad. I would hazard a guess that, on average, the IQ of the average WDW visitor is actually greater than that of the average DL visitor. At the end of the day, the real difference probably doesn't have much to do with how "discerning" or intelligent the guests are, but rather the fact that Disneyland mostly attracts locals on day trips, so they need to constantly spruce things up to keep them returning, while WDW attracts people who come for a week every few years (on average). The management of each resort responds appropriately.