Why is Riviera resale so cheap?

[nickys]

Does that count for VGF2? Or we don’t yet?

VGF2 isn’t really a “thing”. The new studios are being converted from resort rooms and will be a different bookable type of studio. But they are being added to the existing VGF, so all points other than Riviera resale will be good to use there.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I wish there was some sort of historical chart showing resale pricing history. As Disney is charging 207/pt for Riviera currently, and seeing a 130/pt contract for 152, I don't see why I wouldn't bite on a resale. The benefits don't seem to be worth the rack rate to me (if you went to Disney every year, might be something to consider).

It all depends on what you value, but my personal opinion is that a resale contract at Riviera is too restrictive for the way I vacation at WDW. For instance, say you have some vacation time that frees up and you decide you want to go in 4 months, but you only have enough points for a studio at Riveria but those are all booked up, you have no other options. If you bought a legacy resort resale(or direct) you will have a lot more potential options.

 

[nickys]

So one thing to remember is that Disney will use banked points first. So if you have 14 points left over first year, you bank those. Next year, DVC will use those 14 first, and if all is the same, you would then have 28 to bank into the next year. If you do that for a bit, you can add a day or two for a longer vacation.
We do try to use as many of our points each year, but depending on the year, we may borrow from next year, or bank to the next year. We usually go for a 1 bedroom for just the 2 of us, and a 2 bedroom if one of the kids and his wife is coming along. If we end up having to borrow, we might get a studio for one of the trips (we normally do at least 2 or 3 trips every year) to make up the difference.

True, if you come up a bit short, DVC lets you buy up to 24 one time use points. They were $15 each, but not sure if that has changed, and it doesn't matter what resort you want to use them at - it's all the same price for those.

The one time use points cost $19 a point now.

To go back to @Schweino ’s query about left over points …. yes it can happen. I have 7 left over now, already banked and will expire at the end of November. Because they’re already banked I can’t transfer them. The only thing I could do with them now is to combine them with a handful of one-time points and book a night or two for someone.

That happened because I rented out my points and those weren’t needed. I don’t worry too much about it. In the past I’ve gifted left over points to someone and booked them a couple of nights. Last year sometime I upgraded a renter to a better view for no cost to use up a handful of points.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It all depends on what you value, but my personal opinion is that a resale contract at Riviera is too restrictive for the way I vacation at WDW. For instance, say you have some vacation time that frees up and you decide you want to go in 4 months, but you only have enough points for a studio at Riveria but those are all booked up, you have no other options. If you bought a legacy resort resale(or direct) you will have a lot more potential options.

That is an excellent point. All of our points are direct, and any future probably will be as well, since we will be leaving them to our kids. We don't want them to have any restrictions on usage.

 

[Schweino]

It all depends on what you value, but my personal opinion is that a resale contract at Riviera is too restrictive for the way I vacation at WDW. For instance, say you have some vacation time that frees up and you decide you want to go in 4 months, but you only have enough points for a studio at Riveria but those are all booked up, you have no other options. If you bought a legacy resort resale(or direct) you will have a lot more potential options.

Do they offer legacy direct anymore? I havent seen that on the DVC site. Also wonder if legacy is still 207/per like Aulani and Riviera?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Do they offer legacy direct anymore? I havent seen that on the DVC site. Also wonder if legacy is still 207/per like Aulani and Riviera?

Legacy won't be cheap, but yes, they offer it direct they just don't advertise it on the DVC website, and you may be limited in the points etc. Disney is always buying up resale contracts or getting points back from people that defaulted for whatever reason, so they have a stock of legacy resort points for each resort. Resale is cheaper, but you won't be able to book Riviera, which seems to be where you want to be.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Do they offer legacy direct anymore? I havent seen that on the DVC site. Also wonder if legacy is still 207/per like Aulani and Riviera?

They always have points available for "sold out" resorts. VGF was an exception for quite awhile, as they just didn't have enough, but that was a few years ago. Right now, they are not selling it until they start selling the new rooms that were just declared. I think they're trying to decide on what kind of incentive do they want to offer, and how it might compete with Riviera sales.

 

[Schweino]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input here I think I'm still leaning resale on Riviera.

• Direct DVC, the benefits IMO don't seem to add up to cover the 10-11k difference from current resale values (152/per ATM).
• Riviera having murphy beds in their studios is a good perk and we do love the rooms, if we did want to do a studio 1 year instead of banking two years for a 1BR.
• Can always rent out Riviera points and use the cash to travel elsewhere, or, rent DVC points to a different Deluxe. It's a hassle that wouldn't exist with Direct, but it's still possible.
• With primary travel times for WDW for us being 12/1 - 12/14, I am guessing it would be easier to get a week at Riviera (studio or 1BR) than it would be at CC or BR because of it's popularity. True/False in your opinion?

Again, thanks all!

 

[nickys]

Do they offer legacy direct anymore? I havent seen that on the DVC site. Also wonder if legacy is still 207/per like Aulani and Riviera?

Yes they do sell the legacy resorts. Right now there are incentives for Bay Lake Tower, for example, which are pretty good.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Yes they do sell the legacy resorts. Right now there are incentives for Bay Lake Tower, for example, which are pretty good.

Wish they'd offer some really good incentives for BWV. We'd jump on those. BLT is simply not our style at all. We have stayed there, but it was a one and done.

 

[nickys]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input here I think I'm still leaning resale on Riviera.

• Direct DVC, the benefits IMO don't seem to add up to cover the 10-11k difference from current resale values (152/per ATM).
• Riviera having murphy beds in their studios is a good perk and we do love the rooms, if we did want to do a studio 1 year instead of banking two years for a 1BR.
• Can always rent out Riviera points and use the cash to travel elsewhere, or, rent DVC points to a different Deluxe. It's a hassle that wouldn't exist with Direct, but it's still possible.
• With primary travel times for WDW for us being 12/1 - 12/14, I am guessing it would be easier to get a week at Riviera (studio or 1BR) than it would be at CC or BR because of it's popularity. True/False in your opinion?

Again, thanks all!

Not sure about that last point.

Copper Creek is especially difficult but booking anywhere for the first two weeks in December can be hard, even at 11 months. In fact mid September through to mid January (post race weekend) is peak season.

Also, as someone already said, if you buy Riviera resale then you might have to be flexible as to when you travel, and be able to plan a year out so you can book at 11 months. If a lot of owners want those dates it’s not as if you can book elsewhere, you would have to change your dates.

Other studios that sleep 5 include BCV, BWV, Poly, GFV and BRV (at WL).

 

[CastAStone]

I wish there was some sort of historical chart showing resale pricing history. As Disney is charging 207/pt for Riviera currently, and seeing a 130/pt contract for 152, I don't see why I wouldn't bite on a resale. The benefits don't seem to be worth the rack rate to me (if you went to Disney every year, might be something to consider).

If you only want 130 points and are certain you’ll hold it for 15+ years, you might not. Personally I wouldn’t want to be trapped into one resort. They offer substantial direct discounts on larger contracts direct which is why I would suggest direct for most.

Reading through the rest of your posts I actually wonder if a non-Disney timeshare is a better option for you? Resale they’re a fraction of the price.

 

[CastAStone]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input here I think I'm still leaning resale on Riviera.

• Direct DVC, the benefits IMO don't seem to add up to cover the 10-11k difference from current resale values (152/per ATM).
• Riviera having murphy beds in their studios is a good perk and we do love the rooms, if we did want to do a studio 1 year instead of banking two years for a 1BR.
• Can always rent out Riviera points and use the cash to travel elsewhere, or, rent DVC points to a different Deluxe. It's a hassle that wouldn't exist with Direct, but it's still possible.
• With primary travel times for WDW for us being 12/1 - 12/14, I am guessing it would be easier to get a week at Riviera (studio or 1BR) than it would be at CC or BR because of it's popularity. True/False in your opinion?

Again, thanks all!

1) the other thing direct is you pick your UY, but OTOH you have to buy at least 150 points. If you bought an April use year contract today from Disney, you would have one extra year of points vs the resale contract I see at $152, Which doesn’t have 2021 points left. That’s probably worth $15 a point, not $50
2) Those will supposedly eventually come to almost every resort, but yes that’s nice right now
3) renting out points will be somewhat harder if you are locked into only one resort. Probably still doable, but it increases the odds you get stuck. If you did buy direct, trading your points for other things is a terrible use of points financially. The perk that has financial value direct is access to the second tier annual pass.
4) You have literally picked the two hardest resorts to find a standard studio in. But for a preferred studio, Riviera will probably be easier. Quite a few more points though. I don’t think you’ll have issues with one-bedrooms if you are on top of it.

 

[Schweino]

4) You have literally picked the two hardest resorts to find a standard studio in. But for a preferred studio, Riviera will probably be easier. Quite a few more points though. I don’t think you’ll have issues with one-bedrooms if you are on top of it.

Well Riviera just looks so nice! We do plan vacations well, well in advance (like our 12/3-12/10 trip this year) so the 11 month window doesn't scare me at all. I guess my ultimate question is, once booking opens on the 11th month, right at 8 AM, is my chances very high of getting a studio for a week? (Assuming 1 BR is an auto-yes at the 11 month window). Like, if I can get it booked in 5 minutes

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Well Riviera just looks so nice! We do plan vacations well, well in advance (like our 12/3-12/10 trip this year) so the 11 month window doesn't scare me at all. I guess my ultimate question is, once booking opens on the 11th month, right at 8 AM, is my chances very high of getting a studio for a week? (Assuming 1 BR is an auto-yes at the 11 month window). Like, if I can get it booked in 5 minutes

Have you stayed there or are going by what you read and the website? If you buy a resale for Riviera, prepare for it to be your only option and don't count on renting it out every time you want to. I found using the websites that set it up to not be the easiest and as others have said, your points may not be that desired given the restrictions. On top of that, and this is my opinion, one never knows if the renting of the points will ever get hamstrung by DVC rules in the future. We have given our opinions and you are certainly welcome to go ahead and buy one, but I would for sure stay there first if you haven't.
It should also be said...don't buy if you need to finance it at all. Really makes no sense then.

 

[i<3riviera]

Why is Riviera so cheap? Is it the maintenance dues?​

resale prices trend pretty well with direct prices; as direct prices rise, so do resale prices; in general you can expect about a 20-30% savings buying resale instead of direct (but there are exceptions!)

what's probably most important is comparing apples to apples; on sale resorts (AUL + RVA) nearly always have incentives and more recently DVC has offered sold-out resorts with incentives; the typical direct purchase for a new member is 150-200 points these days; to better assess resort resale prices, you might pick a 200 point new member purchase with incentives vs. a resale contract

if you do that, RVA actually fits quite well in this pattern with a ~24% savings for resale given the current incentives; here's the data if you want to tweak any of the numbers (e.g. look at 150 point incentives or use another source for resale prices) ...

​

resort​	direct w/o incentives​	direct 200 points new member​	resale median (Dec 2021)​	resale savings (1 - resale / direct)​
OKW​	180​	180​	138​	23%​
BWV​	230​	230​	142​	38%​
BRV​	190​	190​	130​	32%​
BCV​	265​	265​	160​	40%​
SSR​	180​	180​	135​	25%​
AKV​	186​	176​	137​	22%​
BLT​	245​	219​	169​	23%​
VGF​	255​	255​	189​	26%​
PVB​	250​	240​	169​	30%​
CCV​	225​	215​	169​	21%​
RVA​	207​	193​	146​	24%​

what's up with BWV and BCV? they're priced very aggressively for direct sales so have a bigger delta; I imagine to persuade people of the "value" of RVA (and it apparently works); but there is ultimately a limit on how much people are going to pay for points resale, hence the larger difference

one caveat that any individual month can have some variability in its resale pricing; also, RVA doesn't have a ton of resale activity as many have mentioned so it's a bit hard to gauge RVA resale pricing

I wish there was some sort of historical chart showing resale pricing history.​

here you go; it's about a year old and I'm pretty sure I screwed up something with my 2017 data point but you can see the general trends; top is adjusted for inflation (probably more useful), bottom is raw ...

Well Riviera just looks so nice!

RVA is pretty nice but if you buy resale there you're missing out on one of the biggest advantage of DVC in being able to try out various resorts; since you're not totally sold on DVC, you might want to avoid direct as well because if you change your mind in a few years, it can be more financially painful

since you said CCV was your second choice, you might also consider BRV resale; BRV is due for a refurbishment this year and it will likely rival CCV for quality once it's complete; it can be challenging to get studios at BRV when you're talking about going but nowhere near as difficult as it is for CCV

points at BRV are cheaper per point because they expire in 2042; just like CCV (or any non-RVA resale) you can use them anywhere except RVA (and future resorts) at 7 months; if you find DVC works well for your family and do want to go all in, you can always add RVA resale / direct later plus keep or sell your BRV points; if DVC doesn't work for you, you're still be able to sell and likely recoup most of your buy in cost

there are 20 BRV resale listings <25k USD at the moment for 50-210 points

but it's just one other option to consider! best of luck with your decision!

 

[Schweino]

since you said CCV was your second choice, you might also consider BRV resale; BRV is due for a refurbishment this year and it will likely rival CCV for quality once it's complete; it can be challenging to get studios at BRV when you're talking about going but nowhere near as difficult as it is for CCV

I did see that BRV was due for a refurb (and sort of hoping it similarish to CC).

Have you stayed there or are going by what you read and the website?

We watched quite a few video tours of the rooms on Youtube.

Reading through the rest of your posts I actually wonder if a non-Disney timeshare is a better option for you? Resale they’re a fraction of the price.

It's something we briefly talked about, but ultimately decided against it. One of the secondary reasons we are even considering DVC is because we would love the ability to gift a week to our siblings (my sister is a big Disney fan and has 3 kids) randomly if we decided to not go. Also, as we are trying to have kids ourselves, we would absolutely go to WDW at the very least 2-3 times. The other times, we would just go to chill and get away from our nasty winters, which probably would be an every two year thing (stack points for 1 BR) and do a 130 pt resale.

What I really wish I knew, considering main travel times being 12/1 - 12/14, how difficult is it really to get a full week if I am on the site right when booking opens on the 11th month? If it opens at 8 AM on 1/1, and I can get everything booked by 8:05, do they really book up that fast? EDIT: This line of questioning is leading me down the Boulder Ridge path - if I can book in the first 5 minutes and not have to worry about 'missing' out, it's an option to consider.

 

[nickys]

What I really wish I knew, considering main travel times being 12/1 - 12/14, how difficult is it really to get a full week if I am on the site right when booking opens on the 11th month? If it opens at 8 AM on 1/1, and I can get everything booked by 8:05, do they really book up that fast? EDIT: This line of questioning is leading me down the Boulder Ridge path - if I can book in the first 5 minutes and not have to worry about 'missing' out, it's an option to consider.

Again it depends on the specific room and view.

There are some really useful charts of likely availability of specific rooms through the year on another website. Not sure if I can post it on here, but try googling “DVC availability charts” and you should find it.

 

[Schweino]

There are some really useful charts of likely availability of specific rooms through the year on another website. Not sure if I can post it on here, but try googling “DVC availability charts” and you should find it.

Thanks! I tried taking a look at a specific one, and it calls out that even at 11 months, a deluxe studio and 1BR's at Riviera and BR 12/1 - 12/15 would historically have 3-8 days available. With my noob self, deducing that if I wanted to get a full week, I better book like it's dining and get it done in 60 seconds and have some luck (speaking to the pro of direct, can use the points anywhere).

Black Friday - 12/2 does appear to be a better window in the charts, but I am sure after Thanksgiving it's really a toss up if it's better or not.

 

[Schweino]

Put together a little value chart to help my brain - if anyone wants to see if there's anything I potentially calculated wrong (dates hypothetically being 12/1 - 12/14 range and using 2023 point charts):

To note, I know there is little costs like closing, potential due increases, and even point increases for the rooms that are just impossible to calculate in, but it's at least rough.