Why I may not go again

[Pepper's Ghost]

There's no doubt that a WDW trip is very complicated, especially if you want to maximize your trip. You have to learn about all the tips and tricks, keep a lot of booking dates in mind, and the parks have become extremely overcrowded at almost all times. The most annoying part is that it's incredibly competitive and it feels disappointing when you don't get everything you tried to book - dining reservations, Genie+ selections, etc.

At the end of the day, I still have a blast there and will continue to go for life. But I often feel badly for people that aren't die-hard fans, like us, that don't know all the tips and tricks and everything. I wish it wasn't so tricky to book a vacation but to me it's still worth it. Maybe one day they'll come up with a better system to make everything more simple. Or perhaps they like the fact that by not getting every reservation we want, it keeps us coming back time and time again in hopes of booking those things next time.

I totally respect your desire to return over and over without limitation based on changes you don't like. I'm actually envious. I too would like to have the desire, sincerely. I just don't find it enjoyable like it once was, and that was BEFORE the recent changes that have created such an uproar. I'd love to experience that magic again, but it's gonna be a while before I give them a chance again. Btw, I'm not trying to convince anyone of feeling the way I feel, or agreeing with me. It's just how I feel. It will take something significant to happen... like maybe a majority of those on these boards raving about recent positive changes I wasn't aware of, or some major announcements about policy changes that eliminate the heavy dependence on phones and the draconian policies that have been put in place to make things so difficult. Short of something big happening, I can't see the magic returning any time soon. But I'll still cross my fingers they do make positive changes because I'd really like to want to go back.

 

[Otamin]

And it's everywhere. I don't participate in other Disney forums, but I do browse here and there, Reddit, etc. and this isn't just your standard churn. And although I don't do much social media, the only people who I do see that I personally know on social media that still are going are the ones who are "travel planners" who are getting comp'd left and right.

I can speak for myself - they priced me out awhile ago. At least WDW did, Disneyland at least is still manageable. But obviously, I'm still here - so I every so often entertain the idea of "to heck with it, I'll pay their stupid prices"...but then - I realize that even if I gave in on the money part, WDW still isn't a very pleasant place any more to be in my eyes.

Reading the OP here, personally Magical Express part doesn't bother me (I haven't been without my own car, even on property, for well over a dozen years, I want my flexibility), but everything else said really resonated. WDW has just become too restrictive and complex for me to actually have fun.

The fact that I can't just pay one price for a park hopper ticket to be able to go where I want, when I want, is a total dealbreaker. I'm the type that I wouldn't know what to do for a full day in a single park. I want to rope drop the MK, do my favorite rides - head over to AK for lunch and a spin on Dinosaur, then head over to MGM or Epcot for the nighttime show.

It was one thing back when it was just about booking restaurants three or even six months out. I'm one of those people who loved to plan, but also realized - plans are a guideline, sticking to them on a military schedule was never a good idea - the best planners know how to take advantage of whatever situation is going on at the moment, and are able to "plan" on the go. Sure, you labor over itineraries because it used to be fun - not required, and you weren't beholden to it. So you make your one reservation of the day for a sit-down meal, and just work around it.

But now? Park reservations? It's just crazy. I can almost see it if it is your "once in a lifetime" trip, but as someone who has spent months worth of days in my life at the parks - it is just so completely unappealing to me. I would feel like I was wasting my money. I want to go where I want, when I want. I would feel like it was a severely truncated experience.

And now, when you factor in all the other stuff - that I could write an essay about, but it's all so awful I don't even want to go there - the Genie + /pay per ride stuff, the decimation of entertainment, and so on...

...Let's just put it this way. If you had told me ten, even five years ago that the magic would have gone like this for me - I never would have believed it. I imagined I would be an AP holder until I die. And it has nothing to do with me falling out of love with the parks themselves - it is everything crappy around them that Disney has insisted on doing with them that has sucked all the fun out of visiting them, at the same time they have upped the pricing so high that it's cheaper to spend a week in pretty much any location in the world other than WDW.

Incredibly well said.

It is unfortunate, but they've become soulless, overpriced and overcrowded parks in recent years that don't allow for the kind of spontaneity they once did. I haven't been since 2008, but I know if I were to return it would sour the memories I had growing up.

Hopefully things improve in time, but I personally feel many of the damages made are unfortunately irreparable.

 

[Denise Thress]

And it's everywhere. I don't participate in other Disney forums, but I do browse here and there, Reddit, etc. and this isn't just your standard churn. And although I don't do much social media, the only people who I do see that I personally know on social media that still are going are the ones who are "travel planners" who are getting comp'd left and right.

I can speak for myself - they priced me out awhile ago. At least WDW did, Disneyland at least is still manageable. But obviously, I'm still here - so I every so often entertain the idea of "to heck with it, I'll pay their stupid prices"...but then - I realize that even if I gave in on the money part, WDW still isn't a very pleasant place any more to be in my eyes.

Reading the OP here, personally Magical Express part doesn't bother me (I haven't been without my own car, even on property, for well over a dozen years, I want my flexibility), but everything else said really resonated. WDW has just become too restrictive and complex for me to actually have fun.

The fact that I can't just pay one price for a park hopper ticket to be able to go where I want, when I want, is a total dealbreaker. I'm the type that I wouldn't know what to do for a full day in a single park. I want to rope drop the MK, do my favorite rides - head over to AK for lunch and a spin on Dinosaur, then head over to MGM or Epcot for the nighttime show.

It was one thing back when it was just about booking restaurants three or even six months out. I'm one of those people who loved to plan, but also realized - plans are a guideline, sticking to them on a military schedule was never a good idea - the best planners know how to take advantage of whatever situation is going on at the moment, and are able to "plan" on the go. Sure, you labor over itineraries because it used to be fun - not required, and you weren't beholden to it. So you make your one reservation of the day for a sit-down meal, and just work around it.

But now? Park reservations? It's just crazy. I can almost see it if it is your "once in a lifetime" trip, but as someone who has spent months worth of days in my life at the parks - it is just so completely unappealing to me. I would feel like I was wasting my money. I want to go where I want, when I want. I would feel like it was a severely truncated experience.

And now, when you factor in all the other stuff - that I could write an essay about, but it's all so awful I don't even want to go there - the Genie + /pay per ride stuff, the decimation of entertainment, and so on...

...Let's just put it this way. If you had told me ten, even five years ago that the magic would have gone like this for me - I never would have believed it. I imagined I would be an AP holder until I die. And it has nothing to do with me falling out of love with the parks themselves - it is everything crappy around them that Disney has insisted on doing with them that has sucked all the fun out of visiting them, at the same time they have upped the pricing so high that it's cheaper to spend a week in pretty much any location in the world other than WDW.

I am with you, especially on the park hopper. I live an hour away from WDW and get a Florida discount but quit going 9 years ago. I still consider a day or so there but just cannot work that money into my retirement budget or my patience quotient. I don't want to wait in long lines.

 

[Marijil]

I’m so down w this. But they do not seem to care. People are flocking there. I honestly don’t understand

 

[Diamond Dot]

I wrote to Disney via the email for Bob Chapek, I knew he wouldn't read it of course, but, hoped someone would and they did because I got a response. However, all they wanted to do was call me, at my convenience, to discuss what I said in the email, mainly about room checks. I replied by thanking them, but, I saw no point in this as I know I'll just get patronised (I didn't add that last part about being patronised), I did expand on my original emails while I was at it telling them my experience with Genie+ and asking why they felt the need to replace FP+ with it as it was a terrible waste of money. I also suggested that if they insist on doing room checks to only do them in the morning when the majority of guests have left the rooms and also asked why, when a lot of guests were wanting to get to the parks early for the extra half hour, the food courts at the value resorts don't open until 7am, which meant many guests had the choice of breakfast there and hit long queues or have breakfast in their rooms (meaning Disney are missing out on that revenue) so they can get take advantage of the extra 30 minutes.
I did make a snippy comment about those making the current decisions about Disney parks, how I wouldn't trust them to be able to organise a day out at the beach let alone guest experiences at their theme parks. I won't be expecting a reply from them for a while and they are hardly going to listen to one guest's suggestions. Still, I felt better.

I'm a grumpy old woman, deal with it.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I wrote to Disney via the email for Bob Chapek, I knew he wouldn't read it of course, but, hoped someone would and they did because I got a response. However, all they wanted to do was call me, at my convenience, to discuss what I said in the email, mainly about room checks. I replied by thanking them, but, I saw no point in this as I know I'll just get patronised (I didn't add that last part about being patronised), I did expand on my original emails while I was at it telling them my experience with Genie+ and asking why they felt the need to replace FP+ with it as it was a terrible waste of money. I also suggested that if they insist on doing room checks to only do them in the morning when the majority of guests have left the rooms and also asked why, when a lot of guests were wanting to get to the parks early for the extra half hour, the food courts at the value resorts don't open until 7am, which meant many guests had the choice of breakfast there and hit long queues or have breakfast in their rooms (meaning Disney are missing out on that revenue) so they can get take advantage of the extra 30 minutes.
I did make a snippy comment about those making the current decisions about Disney parks, how I wouldn't trust them to be able to organise a day out at the beach let alone guest experiences at their theme parks. I won't be expecting a reply from them for a while and they are hardly going to listen to one guest's suggestions. Still, I felt better.

I'm a grumpy old woman, deal with it.

Wow, thanks for telling them alot of what I would love to tell them. The only problem is; will they even listen? or are they going to give platitudes to you about what they are doing?? I hate to say so, but they must know what is going on in their parks with all the angry, confused, disillusioned guests (oops I mean customers) who are very vocal about the "new" disney.
I don't think you are grumpy at all, but I feel the same way, so, LOL.

 

[Diamond Dot]

Wow, thanks for telling them alot of what I would love to tell them. The only problem is; will they even listen? or are they going to give platitudes to you about what they are doing?? I hate to say so, but they must know what is going on in their parks with all the angry, confused, disillusioned guests (oops I mean customers) who are very vocal about the "new" disney.
I don't think you are grumpy at all, but I feel the same way, so, LOL.

If you don't tell them then they definitely won't be listening. It was so easy to just let them know, in a polite way, that the changes are not going down well, they may not listen to one voice, but, they will have to listen to many. Let the people who will fork out for the new extras carry one, but, the rest of us should speak out.

I did compliment on the Skyliner though, because I think that is absolutely awesome, to leave parks and not be waiting for buses that may take 20-30 minutes arrive because it's the middle of the day was fantastic.

 

[LittleMerman]

I totally respect your desire to return over and over without limitation based on changes you don't like. I'm actually envious. I too would like to have the desire, sincerely. I just don't find it enjoyable like it once was, and that was BEFORE the recent changes that have created such an uproar. I'd love to experience that magic again, but it's gonna be a while before I give them a chance again. Btw, I'm not trying to convince anyone of feeling the way I feel, or agreeing with me. It's just how I feel. It will take something significant to happen... like maybe a majority of those on these boards raving about recent positive changes I wasn't aware of, or some major announcements about policy changes that eliminate the heavy dependence on phones and the draconian policies that have been put in place to make things so difficult. Short of something big happening, I can't see the magic returning any time soon. But I'll still cross my fingers they do make positive changes because I'd really like to want to go back.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion and it sounds like you're not the only one that feels that way.

For me, a lot of the "magic" is gone, but the "fun" is still there, which keeps me going back.

 

[graphite1326]

If you don't tell them then they definitely won't be listening. It was so easy to just let them know, in a polite way, that the changes are not going down well, they may not listen to one voice, but, they will have to listen to many. Let the people who will fork out for the new extras carry one, but, the rest of us should speak out.

I did compliment on the Skyliner though, because I think that is absolutely awesome, to leave parks and not be waiting for buses that may take 20-30 minutes arrive because it's the middle of the day was fantastic.

Do you think they read these boards? I have always wondered that.

If not how do we contact them?

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

I wrote to Disney via the email for Bob Chapek, I knew he wouldn't read it of course, but, hoped someone would and they did because I got a response. However, all they wanted to do was call me, at my convenience, to discuss what I said in the email, mainly about room checks. I replied by thanking them, but, I saw no point in this as I know I'll just get patronised (I didn't add that last part about being patronised), I did expand on my original emails while I was at it telling them my experience with Genie+ and asking why they felt the need to replace FP+ with it as it was a terrible waste of money. I also suggested that if they insist on doing room checks to only do them in the morning when the majority of guests have left the rooms and also asked why, when a lot of guests were wanting to get to the parks early for the extra half hour, the food courts at the value resorts don't open until 7am, which meant many guests had the choice of breakfast there and hit long queues or have breakfast in their rooms (meaning Disney are missing out on that revenue) so they can get take advantage of the extra 30 minutes.
I did make a snippy comment about those making the current decisions about Disney parks, how I wouldn't trust them to be able to organise a day out at the beach let alone guest experiences at their theme parks. I won't be expecting a reply from them for a while and they are hardly going to listen to one guest's suggestions. Still, I felt better.

I'm a grumpy old woman, deal with it.

A note on why WDW always wants to CALL you, not mail or EMAIL you.
Phone calls leave no real records. Letters, and even EMAILS, do. See what happens if you ask permission to "record the conversation to insure customer satisfaction"

 

[HauntedPirate]

Do you think they read these boards? I have always wondered that.

If not how do we contact them?

The Mouse is watching. Maybe not every single thread, but they are out there.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

I think one thing people have to remember, is that there are those Disney fanatics that complain about the prices who actually helped drive them up. You can't close up shop for a prolonged period of time and expect there NOT to be cutbacks of staff and jacked up prices. I knew it two years ago, tried to tell people about it but few listened. It isn't how people want to remember it, but it is what it is. Disney prices go up the same way milk, cheese, gas for your car, restaurants, etc. have gone up. So I do find it ironic, because I hope very much people realize it is NEVER a good idea for an economy to crash, especially when people are demanding that it crashes, or turn a blind eye to it.

Anyway, I am guessing maybe the crowds will calm down as time goes on? There is a lot of backlogs for Disney trips. This leads to a lot of line ups and such from what I am reading.

I still say that we should go back to the old days where there were no fastpasses. I dealt with it the best I could back in 2018, and we went on pretty much everything at the MK in a day. Didn't miss anything other than Peter Pan and Snow White's Mine Train. Other than that, if we missed anything it was a Meet and Greet or something like that. At Epcot we saw everything, didn't miss a single attraction. Got on the Test Track just right before the fireworks started, and didn't miss them. I feel that knowing the ins and outs of the park and keeping your feet moving and head up for line lengths, then you are alright. Too often people are looking down at their phone checking the line times. Well, that wastes time, and if everyone does that then you aren't getting ahead. You have to buck the trend. It worked for me.

 

[Ginzuishou]

I think the worst is not knowing if you will be able to get on a ride (star wars, etc.) That's just sad.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I wrote to Disney via the email for Bob Chapek, I knew he wouldn't read it of course, but, hoped someone would and they did because I got a response. However, all they wanted to do was call me, at my convenience, to discuss what I said in the email, mainly about room checks. I replied by thanking them, but, I saw no point in this as I know I'll just get patronised (I didn't add that last part about being patronised), I did expand on my original emails while I was at it telling them my experience with Genie+ and asking why they felt the need to replace FP+ with it as it was a terrible waste of money. I also suggested that if they insist on doing room checks to only do them in the morning when the majority of guests have left the rooms and also asked why, when a lot of guests were wanting to get to the parks early for the extra half hour, the food courts at the value resorts don't open until 7am, which meant many guests had the choice of breakfast there and hit long queues or have breakfast in their rooms (meaning Disney are missing out on that revenue) so they can get take advantage of the extra 30 minutes.
I did make a snippy comment about those making the current decisions about Disney parks, how I wouldn't trust them to be able to organise a day out at the beach let alone guest experiences at their theme parks. I won't be expecting a reply from them for a while and they are hardly going to listen to one guest's suggestions. Still, I felt better.

I'm a grumpy old woman, deal with it.

Thanks for sharing!! Any chance you can post that email address on this thread? Sure, one "grumpy" young woman sending a couple of emails might not change anything, but what about a whole bunch of emails from their fan base? That might get some attention. I'm not saying it'll change anything, but it might garner attention. If you post it, I will write to them.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I think one thing people have to remember, is that there are those Disney fanatics that complain about the prices who actually helped drive them up. You can't close up shop for a prolonged period of time and expect there NOT to be cutbacks of staff and jacked up prices. I knew it two years ago, tried to tell people about it but few listened. It isn't how people want to remember it, but it is what it is. Disney prices go up the same way milk, cheese, gas for your car, restaurants, etc. have gone up. So I do find it ironic, because I hope very much people realize it is NEVER a good idea for an economy to crash, especially when people are demanding that it crashes, or turn a blind eye to it.

Anyway, I am guessing maybe the crowds will calm down as time goes on? There is a lot of backlogs for Disney trips. This leads to a lot of line ups and such from what I am reading.

I still say that we should go back to the old days where there were no fastpasses. I dealt with it the best I could back in 2018, and we went on pretty much everything at the MK in a day. Didn't miss anything other than Peter Pan and Snow White's Mine Train. Other than that, if we missed anything it was a Meet and Greet or something like that. At Epcot we saw everything, didn't miss a single attraction. Got on the Test Track just right before the fireworks started, and didn't miss them. I feel that knowing the ins and outs of the park and keeping your feet moving and head up for line lengths, then you are alright. Too often people are looking down at their phone checking the line times. Well, that wastes time, and if everyone does that then you aren't getting ahead. You have to buck the trend. It worked for me.

I don't know the Disney fanatics are who helped drive up prices. There aren't enough fanatics to sway them away from some terrible decisions. I don't think there are enough (at least not hard core) fanatics to jack up the prices. I think it's the general public. People say on here that for every fanatic who decides not to go, 4 more from the GP will fill that spot. While I don't really agree with that either, fanatics are just so much smaller a number to make a dent either way. JMO anyway.

For those who notice, sorry for repeating myself, but it's simply supply and demand. As long as there are massive crowds, prices will increase. One cannot complain about huge price increases, and huge crowds at the same time. If you think the crowds are too big now, imagine if they reduced prices. If you want smaller crowds, you should be lauding the price increases and hope for more to think out the crowds. If you want lower prices, you should be hoping for such big prices to get people to not go because that's the only way Disney will reduce prices. The only way to get lower prices is when the balance between revenue and crowds starts to tip the other direction. Once the attendance falls to a point where revenue is lower than before the prices increases, those prices will be scaled back with coupons. With crowds continuing to increase year over year, so will prices.

Oh, and Phil, I'm with you on getting rid of queue skipping systems all together. Disney created a monster with FP. Now it's a monster that is no longer beneficial to the customer in any way. It gots to go!

 

[Chi84]

A note on why WDW always wants to CALL you, not mail or EMAIL you.
Phone calls leave no real records. Letters, and even EMAILS, do. See what happens if you ask permission to "record the conversation to insure customer satisfaction"

The calls aren't always a bad thing. A few years ago, when Disney first started doing credit card holds, their system disconnected our credit card from MDE on more than one occasion, requiring us to make multiple trips to the front desk to add it again.

When we returned home, I wrote a straightforward, concise, non-emotional email to the president's office detailing exactly what happened and how we were inconvenienced. I ended up with "It's my job to decide how much of my money to give to Disney, and Disney's job to put in place systems that make it as easy as possible." I didn't ask for anything.

The next day, I received a call from a representative who asked a few questions about how things were handled, including a front desk CMs less than friendly attitude. Then she said she would like to make it up to us by giving us some anytime FP+s for our next trip (minimal) and 2 free nights in a deluxe studio at any DVC resort except Aulani or the Polynesian (definitely not minimal). We booked BLT ($750/night at that time) but unfortunately had to cancel that trip due to COVID. The offer has no expiration date, so we'll try again.

In my case, it was worth taking the call. But our issue was caused by inadvertent errors on Disney's part, not a planned system that sucks. I don't imagine they're going to be so accommodating to people complaining about Genie+, but I would urge people to email them anyway. Can't hurt.

 

[Trackmaster]

There's no doubt that a WDW trip is very complicated, especially if you want to maximize your trip. You have to learn about all the tips and tricks, keep a lot of booking dates in mind, and the parks have become extremely overcrowded at almost all times. The most annoying part is that it's incredibly competitive and it feels disappointing when you don't get everything you tried to book - dining reservations, Genie+ selections, etc.

The key words are maximize your trip. If you don't want to maximize your trip, don't plan and forth no effort. Its like anything else, if you want mediocre results, put forth mediocre effort.

My concern would be if a mediocre effort yielded completely unacceptable results. There will always be situations where a little more work will get you better results no matter what happens.

 

[DfromATX]

You have legitimate complaints. I haven't gotten to the point where I don't want to go again, but I agree with you. Mostly I will miss the ME and I HATE Genie. I wish no one would buy it so they'd get rid of it, but I guess people must be buying it - traitors!

 

[Diamond Dot]

I replied to the initial email I was sent after writing to the email for Bob Chapek. Here it the second reply from Claire V. As to how the cursory glance around the room that is done, most often from the doorway, can achieve what she claims these checks are for is beyound me, it's just placating waffle. Besides the return of adequate daily housekeeping would achieve that and at least you get your bed made as well. Let's be honest, what she says in the email is nonsense.
Take note of the last paragraph regarding imput from their guests. So drop Bob Chapek a line at Robert.Chapek@disney.com or contact guestservices directly. If we say nothing then nothing is changed.

Claire Vega (Disney Parks) May 3, 2022, 8:01 AM EDT Thank you so much for taking the time to respond back to my email. I appreciate you sharing additional feedback regarding our visual inspections. It is still important for us to visually inspect every room each day for maintenance, safety, security, and other purposes. We are able to schedule a visual inspection at a more convenient time during the day for you to ensure you are comfortable during your stay. During your next vacation at a Walt Disney World Resort Hotel, you can speak with a housekeeping Cast Member through an in-room phone for additional assistance. I truly appreciate that you are such a dedicated fan of the Walt Disney World Resort and that you care enough to share your feedback. We pride ourselves on continuously maintaining our company's reputation for providing outstanding Guest service. As Walt himself once said, "Times and conditions change so rapidly that we must keep our aim constantly focused on the future." We are always evaluating and refining our offerings and considering new ideas to build upon Disney stories. This philosophy is in keeping with Walt Disney’s vision for continuing to grow and evolve, giving Guests a mixture of familiar and new experiences with each visit. We rely on input from our Guests to help us determine when these changes should remain in effect or when we should implement something different. We truly believe by listening to our Guests, we will know what we’re doing right and—most importantly—what we should continue to improve upon. I can assure you that I have personally shared your correspondence with the appropriate Leadership so they are aware of your feedback as we continuously strive to improve our Guests' experiences.

 

[Diamond Dot]

The calls aren't always a bad thing. A few years ago, when Disney first started doing credit card holds, their system disconnected our credit card from MDE on more than one occasion, requiring us to make multiple trips to the front desk to add it again.

When we returned home, I wrote a straightforward, concise, non-emotional email to the president's office detailing exactly what happened and how we were inconvenienced. I ended up with "It's my job to decide how much of my money to give to Disney, and Disney's job to put in place systems that make it as easy as possible." I didn't ask for anything.

The next day, I received a call from a representative who asked a few questions about how things were handled, including a front desk CMs less than friendly attitude. Then she said she would like to make it up to us by giving us some anytime FP+s for our next trip (minimal) and 2 free nights in a deluxe studio at any DVC resort except Aulani or the Polynesian (definitely not minimal). We booked BLT ($750/night at that time) but unfortunately had to cancel that trip due to COVID. The offer has no expiration date, so we'll try again.

In my case, it was worth taking the call. But our issue was caused by inadvertent errors on Disney's part, not a planned system that sucks. I don't imagine they're going to be so accommodating to people complaining about Genie+, but I would urge people to email them anyway. Can't hurt.

Also, with phone calls you never have the time to always say what you want, it's easy for the well trained CM at the other end to distract you with waffle, which is why I refused a phone call from Disney in response to my original email.