Why I may not go again

[kalel8145]

You're right.

I think people sometimes miss the fact that those of us who complain are mainly doing so because we love WDW. We're so emotionally invested in it, that when we see a place that is so special and has meant so much to us (for many of us, over our entire lives) casting off the things that made it so special and meaningful, we go through all the predictable stages of mourning that loss.

We're feeling disbelief, anger, sadness, betrayal, and resignation, sometimes all at the same time, and naturally, we're going to post about it. It doesn't mean we can't still enjoy WDW, that we're blind to its good points, or that we're just a clutch of Debbie Downers who want to ruin everybody else's good time. It just means we're processing -- with the help of others on this forum who "get it" because they're going through the same emotions -- how Disney's changes over the past few years have made us feel. The fact that Disney still has some amazing things to offer isn't mentioned as much, not because it isn't true, but because on a WDW fan forum, we implicitly assume that everybody already knows that, since it's what brought us all here in the first place. At least, I know I do.

I couldn't agree more with being invested and caring about Disney so much you need a place to vent the frustrations with like minded fans. That's all good. Complain away. Its good to call Disney out, with the hope someone, somewhere that works for them might just see and who knows what could happen to make a difference.
My issue is those that actively dump on others excitement. One can make their point of their disappointment without directly or indirectly going after someone.

 

[Nubs70]

In all seriousness, it feels like a majority of large companies now treat us this way, not just WDW.

Room checks are done in response to the Las Vegas mass shooting a few years back
.

 

[Married5Times]

Forum members complain about hotel and ticket prices.

How often do forum members complain about the price of WDW margaritas?

but hotel pricing might well be, hypothetically, 25% over what is appropriate which could mean an extra $800 for the trip whereas if margaritas are, hypothetically, 25% overpriced then maybe that translates to another $8 for the trip.

 

[kalel8145]

but hotel pricing might well be, hypothetically, 25% over what is appropriate which could mean an extra $800 for the trip whereas if margaritas are, hypothetically, 25% overpriced then maybe that translates to another $8 for the trip.

I would much prefer that extra $800 to spend on margaritas.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Another oddity of vacations is that many people tend to pay more attention to some expenses than they do to other expenses. Forum members complain about hotel and ticket prices.

How often do forum members complain about the price of WDW margaritas?

Come on, really, after a couple of margaritas no one cares about how much or little they cost.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Room checks are done in response to the Las Vegas mass shooting a few years back
.

Sorry, I meant that more broadly, not room checks at all. I was mainly just agreeing that the corporate response = some placating waffle.

*******
[Yesterday, I wasted about 3 hours on hold listening to the disingenuous corporate, "We care about our customers and value your time," alternating with the even more annoying, 'Did you know we have a webpage?' (Mind, the 2 companies I called were NOT Disney.)

I already went to your stupid webpage. Sadly, your webpage is missing a key piece of information: your phone number!

Many companies no longer provide a phone number on their main webpage. Even the 'contact us' link no longer has a phone number.

Yesterday I called one of them because next to the email address was a note that said, "Please wait 4 business days for a reply to your email." YIKES!]

 

[JusticeDisney]

You're right.

I think people sometimes miss the fact that those of us who complain are mainly doing so because we love WDW. We're so emotionally invested in it, that when we see a place that is so special and has meant so much to us (for many of us, over our entire lives) casting off the things that made it so special and meaningful, we go through all the predictable stages of mourning that loss.

We're feeling disbelief, anger, sadness, betrayal, and resignation, sometimes all at the same time, and naturally, we're going to post about it. It doesn't mean we can't still enjoy WDW, that we're blind to its good points, or that we're just a clutch of Debbie Downers who want to ruin everybody else's good time. It just means we're processing -- with the help of others on this forum who "get it" because they're going through the same emotions -- how Disney's changes over the past few years have made us feel. The fact that Disney still has some amazing things to offer isn't mentioned as much, not because it isn't true, but because on a WDW fan forum, we implicitly assume that everybody already knows that, since it's what brought us all here in the first place. At least, I know I do.

Fair points, mostly. But my problem with the constant complaining around here is when someone has the attitude that those who are complaining are the ones who “get it.” Not everybody agrees that each change is a bad one. Maybe in some instances it’s the people who aren’t complaining who actually “get it.”

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I would like to think we have all learned something form the last 5 years of history, but maybe not. Pundits have repeatedly said, "X will not happen," and then X happened. Or we were told, "Politician Z cannot do X!" Then Politician Z did exactly X. So yes, it is entirely possible to complain about BOTH price increases and crowds.

Not only possible, but also possibly legitimate.

Disney has long had the ability to wildly manipulate crowd flow rate, or what I'll call CFR for short.
When you try to enter MK, you might find 3 gates open, or 15 gates open.
You try to buy a magnet and there are 1, 2, or 5 registers open in the gift shop.
Do you wait 5, 10, or 50 minutes for a bus back to your hotel?

IN VERY SIMPLISTIC TERMS: The number of people in MK is only a portion of the total equation. If only one turn-style is open, then the CFR would be very low and a group of 100 would have to wait in line. Conversely, if 20 turn-styles are open, the CFR will be much higher, 500 people might be able to enter without any wait at all. (Okay, so not quite 0 wait, but seconds instead of minutes.)

Short waits are not good for Disney.

What they want is an acceptable CFR. The more data WDW collects, the more they are able to control CFR.

The problem is that Disney has now decided a much lower crowd flow rate is acceptable. Lower CFR = more $/customer

But if you look at my random example above, it is perfectly possible that the purple 500 group paid more than the blue 100 group did. Price paid may well be somewhat independent from flow rates.

Disney is very good at advertising and offering 'sales' on Disney vacation packages. WDW prices Pop at $300 for Jan 10th, but then they offer 40% off that rate. It LOOKS like people are getting a 'discount,' but the whole ploy is nothing more than a tool to INCREASE the Jan 10th crowd.

Now if the Jan 10 crowd THINKS Jan 10 is going to be a 'slow' time of year to visit WDW, they will readily tolerate all sorts of CFR reductions, like shorter park hours.

G+ is also just another tool to manipulate us into tolerating a lower flow rate. It is a bit like winning a slot machine. The parkgoer that 'wins' a short attraction wait will happily tolerate a 45minute wait for a bus back to their hotel.

Yes, I am just throwing out random numbers that do not correlate to the real world.

I would counter your last point a little. Americans are complete suckers when it comes to the idea of 'winning.' As long as we think we have won, we are happy, and Disney is an expert in making us think we have won something.

Assuming the crowds you mentioned are all manageable, but are managed in different ways as you've illustrated, I agree. More recently though the common complaint is that the park is busting at the seams. There's just not enough park to go around. Not enough rides and attractions to eat up those crowds. If basically all rides and attractions have ridiculously long lines and wait times, there are only two ways to fix the issue. Either add more rides, more attractions, or a 5th gate to handle the crush of humanity and spread the crowds, or raise prices until you can thin the crowds. The goal is to either add more supply at the same price to find equilibrium, or raise prices to thin demand for equilibrium. (Yes, there are other variable solutions between these, but these are the two basic ones)

Now, like I'm saying I'd love smaller crowds at a reasonable price, but it's just not realistic without changing something... either higher prices, or more supply to thin crowds. Given that Disney recently only thinks about the bottom line, especially after the financial hit it took during covid, it makes more sense for them to just raise prices to make crowds more manageable. There's no incentive for them to add rides and attractions if what's currently there is already attracting a crush of attendance.

Btw, I'm not saying I like the price increase or feel they're justified. I'm just saying that if people are hoping for shorter lines and thinner crowds, price increases are the most likely solution for that. For the time being, it doesn't even seem to be thinning the crowds actually which means demand is just too high at the moment. Maybe G+ and it's considerable complicating of the process will help reduce demand.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I couldn't agree more with being invested and caring about Disney so much you need a place to vent the frustrations with like minded fans. That's all good. Complain away. Its good to call Disney out, with the hope someone, somewhere that works for them might just see and who knows what could happen to make a difference.
My issue is those that actively dump on others excitement. One can make their point of their disappointment without directly or indirectly going after someone.

I appreciate this post very much. You've been a little hard on those of us who've been venting, so seeing you can appreciate the frustration of those of us who feel it, even though you don't share the frustration is a very fair stance. I understand those who don't share the frustration, and who haven't been swayed by changes. Many of us wish we were part of that group, trust me. Thanks for posting this. Who knows... I'm sure many of us will change back as things continue to develop.

I just want to say that I never go after those who still enjoy the parks in their current state. I always say in my posts that I'm not trying to convince those who still have Disney excitement to feel how I feel. Not at all. Often I state in my posts that I sincerely envy those who still have the excitement that unfortunately I don't currently share due to changes. I begrudge no one for their continued patronage if they enjoy the parks. I think it's great that they can still enjoy their visit. If some fans here vent, and then go to the parks anyway, I guess the changes don't bother them as much as they might say. I'd hate to think it's one of those "do as I say, not as I do" kinda things.

 

[kalel8145]

I appreciate this post very much. You've been a little hard on those of us who've been venting, so seeing you can appreciate the frustration of those of us who feel it, even though you don't share the frustration is a very fair stance. I understand those who don't share the frustration, and who haven't been swayed by changes. Many of us wish we were part of that group, trust me. Thanks for posting this. Who knows... I'm sure many of us will change back as things continue to develop.

I just want to say that I never go after those who still enjoy the parks in their current state. I always say in my posts that I'm not trying to convince those who still have Disney excitement to feel how I feel. Not at all. Often I state in my posts that I sincerely envy those who still have the excitement that unfortunately I don't currently share due to changes. I begrudge no one for their continued patronage if they enjoy the parks. I think it's great that they can still enjoy their visit. If some fans here vent, and then go to the parks anyway, I guess the changes don't bother them as much as they might say. I'd hate to think it's one of those "do as I say, not as I do" kinda things.

Thank you. Believe me I share many, many of the frustrations that a lot of the members here do. More than I let on. I totally get when Disney announces something and hypes it up, only for it to be less then what you were expecting. I am a huge Star Wars fan, like obnoxiously huge fan, ask my wife. I was very disappointed with Batuu, still am. Many wasted opportunities. And don't get me started on the star cruiser hotel thing fiasco. I appreciate others are as well. And its been discussed a lot here with many other disappointments, so I don't feel like I need to join those conversations as I have nothing new to add to it and agree with a lot of.

But I am a kid at heart things like the magicband + excites me. I get it doesn't get everyone jazzed up. I get some see it as a ridiculous money grab, maybe it is. Will it make my next trip out of this word, or make Harmonious that much better, no it won't. But its a neat little toy to play with.

It's not everyone that vents here that go after the excited posters, in face most speak their mind and vent in a very respectful way. There are a select few and its obvious they know what they are doing.

Its a Disney Fan Forum. I mostly try to keep it light.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Thank you. Believe me I share many, many of the frustrations that a lot of the members here do. More than I let on. I totally get when Disney announces something and hypes it up, only for it to be less then what you were expecting. I am a huge Star Wars fan, like obnoxiously huge fan, ask my wife. I was very disappointed with Batuu, still am. Many wasted opportunities. And don't get me started on the star cruiser hotel thing fiasco. I appreciate others are as well. And its been discussed a lot here with many other disappointments, so I don't feel like I need to join those conversations as I have nothing new to add to it and agree with a lot of.

But I am a kid at heart things like the magicband + excites me. I get it doesn't get everyone jazzed up. I get some see it as a ridiculous money grab, maybe it is. Will it make my next trip out of this word, or make Harmonious that much better, no it won't. But its a neat little toy to play with.

It's not everyone that vents here that go after the excited posters, in face most speak their mind and vent in a very respectful way. There are a select few and its obvious they know what they are doing.

Its a Disney Fan Forum. I mostly try to keep it light.

I'm a pretty huge Star Wars fan too! I don't dress as a Jedi to see the new releases though. Too bad for me that I'd never stay in their Star Wars hotel. I heard the price, and it ain't worth it. I could afford it if I wanted, but that's insane. I haven't been back to the parks since the addition of GE. I'm hoping I'd like it if I saw it, but based on the feedback I've seen on these boards I'm guessing I'd be disappointed. I've heard rather than transporting fans into a real land of SW, they tried to create something that isn't actually a SW land, but feels like SW. I dunno. Guess I might find out in time... eventually.

 

[Diamond Dot]

In all seriousness, it feels like a majority of large companies now treat us this way, not just WDW.

Very true.

 

[drizgirl]

In all seriousness, it feels like a majority of large companies now treat us this way, not just WDW.

I told my husband the other day it feels like most businesses are at war with their customers these days. It all feels so much more aggressive.

 

[Married5Times]

it feels like most businesses are at war with their customers these days.

I definitely notice a difference. I'm not ready to say over 50% do it(maybe it's a majority, maybe it's not... I don't know) but I certainly see more aggression out of business now compared to just 2 or 3 years ago

 

[GimpYancIent]

Depending on the industry, the business, it has become normalized to look at customers / patrons / guests as monetary resources to be exploited to the fullest extent possible (to include deceptive and questionable business practices) to fatten the bottom line. The entertainment / hospitality industry deals in intangibles such as experiences where such things as over pricing / cheap presentation and minimal service diminish the quality of the service causing customer dissatisfaction. Too bad the corporate mentality now is provided as little as possible, as cheaply as possible for the maximum amount of money possible.

 

[Jrb1979]

I told my husband the other day it feels like most businesses are at war with their customers these days. It all feels so much more aggressive.

In general yes it feels that way. As far as the amusement/theme parks go, only a few seem to be at war with their guests.

 

[chama1]

I’m with you. The points that you began with, I am agreeing that I don’t like the changes but I can work around them. We no longer fly but now drive. If we still flew, losing the convenience of ME would be an issue, still we could work around it. Uber works well and is easy to arrange.
But the hassle to pick park days, being restricted where you can enjoy your days, having to pay more to ensure the attractions you want get done, along with excessive crowds are making me rethink whether Disney will be a destination for us. Money and higher costs aren’t as much a problem for us as other inconvenient policies. We do well to save for what we want, but what we want shouldn’t be so difficult to work out.
We aren’t going back probably for another year or two so we have time to decide what’s to come.

You are so right...even for me as a "local"....the reservations, parking prices, the prices of food/resorts are too high...my "happy place" it not so anymore...

 

[GimpYancIent]

I believe due to the money driven corporate mentality certain things will not change. The rack rates for the various resorts need to be commensurate with what is being offered by other resorts Disney's rates are overpriced for what is being offered. Charging for registered guests to park at the various resorts on property needs to go, we are doing what everyone else is doing thing is not acceptable Disney is supposed to be a cut above everyone else. I understand charging for parking for visitors that are not registered guests, but registered guests are already paying. Do away with the disastrous GENIE, period. Eliminate the park reservation thing if a park begins to hit max capacity STOP SELLING TICKETS don't jerk the visitors around. Lastly get the construction projects underway DONE! The construction zone look does nothing for the parks, rather detracting, potential guests will wait for the projected attractions to be completed and operating to schedule visits to experience them. Not a lot of vacationer's care to stare at construction walls, equipment, materials and dirt piles. Lastly stop blaming COVID for issues, that is last week's news.
TWDC worked diligently to achieve it but finally in 2021 the I Want to Come Back feeling was not there anymore.

 

[drizgirl]

In general yes it feels that way. As far as the amusement/theme parks go, only a few seem to be at war with their guests.

Good point. I honestly never felt like Universal was at war with me when we visited in January.

 

[Jrb1979]

Good point. I honestly never felt like Universal was at war with me when we visited in January.

Agreed. Even the regional parks are doing things to draw in guests.