Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yep. 2018 is a while

Really doubt that StarWarsland is coming to DHS, why build an expensive parking structure when StarWarsland could be fleshed out more easily in a fifth gate by the TTC, which has room for parking lot expansion?

There has been a spat of crazy rumors, saying Star Wars, then Carsland, then a Monster Inc. coaster at DHS . . . do the guys who make this stuff up even have a clue about DHS's land/logistical issues? Apparently not!

Maybe somebody will start a rumor that Ratatouille is coming to Epcot, followed by a StarWarsland and a Carsland behind the American Pavilion.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Really doubt that StarWarsland is coming to DHS, why build an expensive parking structure when StarWarsland could be fleshed out more easily in a fifth gate by the TTC, which has room for parking lot expansion?

I was waiting for you to start pushing a fifth gate, you did the same with the Carsland rumours so it was only a matter of time before you brought it up again in relation to a possible Star Wars expansion.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I was waiting for you to start pushing a fifth gate, you did the same with the Carsland rumours so it was only a matter of time before you brought it up again in relation to a possible Star Wars expansion.

5-6 million more guests in the next ten years (easily) have to go somewhere. There are two options:

1. New lands (not just reworked lands with similar operating capacity).
2. A fifth gate.

Logistically, a fifth gate could be put in the area near TTC which has monorail access, as well as room to expand the parking lot. Heck, they could even incorporate a hotel into it.

But building 1/2 of a new land, i.e. NFL, or re-doing a previously utilized guest area, i.e. Carsland in DHS, ain't gonna squeeze in 5 million more guests a year.

One of these two things will happen over the next 7 or so years, if Disney wants to catch the increasing flood of potential customers into Orlando. DHS could theoretically add a new land in the parking lot, but then you'd have to build a parking garage.

Or Disney could say that they don't want to increase capacity and they'll lose out on some of these pontential customers while they try to squeeze more into existing parks. Or they could throw up their hands and build theme parks solely in emerging markets like Brazil.

Or . . . Disney could just drastically increase ticket prices for the existing four parks, reducing need for guest capacity, and making more money, but they'd lose out on growth . . .

The populist solution would actually be to build a fifth gate, an investment, yes, but it would be a sponge that would allow for more guests to enjoy WDW as presumably ticket prices wouldn't skyrocket so much, though of course, with anything new Disney does, there seems to be a premium price tag these days.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Want to make more people visit and spend money at DHS? Forget the clone rides(carsland), forget making the whole back of the park an area for one movie(star wars). Open up the pocketbook and let the imaginears go to work on 2 original e ticket rides. Please update the outdated movie ride. Get rid of American idol and LMA. They take up valuable space for something more unique. Lets try a new show where beauty is now. And for once and for all, lets fix Fantasmic. How about bringing back a GOOD parade while we're at it.
Ok, got that off my chest.

 

[NewfieFan]

I respect the fact that many fans (myself included!) want to see new stuff at WDW. Fans will always want to see new attractions and major improvements in older parks.

But the reality is that WDW is setting attendance records, Burbank (same pot of money for the whole company) is heavily invested in Shanghai, and recently added major new attractions to Hong Kong and spent billions on DCA 2.0 which opened last summer and $400 million on NFL. They're pushing ahead with Avatarland, and yet fans expect that DHS, despite having attendance increases, will have a third of it demolished.

Ain't gonna happen. These rumors are all false, IMO.

Fans should be happy that WDW's attendance is up as it means more new lands, or a fifth gate, in the future.

Fans also don't get that DHS has logistical issues and wasn't meant to be expanded very much beyond its borders, the official expansion plan would involve a rerouting of World Drive . . . expensive. They could also expand into DHS's small and crowded parking lot . . .

Disney spent $$$ during the recession, to keep down construction costs, and is now seeing a return. I doubt DHS will see any sort of major reconstructive surgery in the future.

I'm not discussing whether or not this expansion will happen or if the rumors are true. I probably won't believe until I start seeing dirt moved (and maybe not even than). I want more Disney stuff just like any Disney fanboy/girl. I'm not discussing that at all.
And why should I be happy if attendance is up... I thought Disney's slogan was if it ain't broke, don't fix it!?! I think Disney will have to take a hit at this point to see any real progress/expansion.

And I know you're kidding about a fifth gate... I don't expect to see that in my lifetime!

 

[GoofGoof]

Really doubt that StarWarsland is coming to DHS, why build an expensive parking structure when StarWarsland could be fleshed out more easily in a fifth gate by the TTC, which has room for parking lot expansion?

There has been a spat of crazy rumors, saying Star Wars, then Carsland, then a Monster Inc. coaster at DHS . . . do the guys who make this stuff up even have a clue about DHS's land/logistical issues? Apparently not!

Maybe somebody will start a rumor that Ratatouille is coming to Epcot, followed by a StarWarsland and a Carsland behind the American Pavilion.

You call these crazy rumors and then start talking about a 5th gate? You must be a Disney bus driver. Just kidding, but seriously, a 5th gate is out of the question for a really long while, if ever. It would be cheaper to flat out buy SeaWorld now that its a public company.

On the notion of building on undeveloped land vs reusing existing structures. Look down the road to MK. Last time I checked FLE was built primarily on land that occupied other attractions.

 

[FrankLapidus]

5-6 million more guests in the next ten years (easily) have to go somewhere. There are two options:

1. New lands (not just reworked lands with similar operating capacity).
2. A fifth gate.

I'm sure your logic makes sense to you but if these rumours come to be a reality then you're ideas are clearly at odds with those of the decision makers at WDW.

It's not a debate I want to get into myself, personally I could care less about logistics and guest numbers,but speaking as a regular WDW guest I just want to see some much-needed improvements come to DHS and for me a Star Wars Land and a Pixar expansion of some sort certainly qualify as big improvements if they are done right.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm not discussing whether or not this expansion will happen or if the rumors are true. I probably won't believe until I start seeing dirt moved (and maybe not even than). I want more Disney stuff just like any Disney fanboy/girl. I'm not discussing that at all.
And why should I be happy if attendance is up... I thought Disney's slogan was if it ain't broke, don't fix it!?! I think Disney will have to take a hit at this point to see any real progress/expansion.

And I know you're kidding about a fifth gate... I don't expect to see that in my lifetime!

Attendance was down at DCA because of a perceived lack of quality, tongue in cheek. Disney knew they could do better, and they had plans for expansion, and they believed that there was potential in Anaheim to build something new, and charge a premium for them. Remember how ridiculous it was when DCA was charging high prices similar to Disneyland?

Given that DCA succeeded, so well, Burbank is kinda looking more closely at plans for a third gate in Anaheim because they realize there is still flexibility in the market.

If the market gurus in Burbank figured that DCA 1.0 was failing because everybody was going to Knotts, and that the crowds weren't coming back, then they would have slashed ticket prices even more, and perhaps keept DCA open on just certain days, or close earlier.

WDW's attendance growth proves there is a market, and if you don't think that 5-6 million *more* guests a year at WDW can be stuffed easily into a water park and that the parks aren't crowded as is . . . then I got a bridge to sell ya in Brooklyn!

WDW is kinda a city more "citizens" need more space to play.

 

[maxairmike]

Or . . . Disney could just drastically increase ticket prices for the existing four parks, reducing need for guest capacity, and making more money, but they'd lose out on growth . . .

The populist solution would actually be to build a fifth gate, an investment, yes, but it would be a sponge that would allow for more guests to enjoy WDW as presumably ticket prices wouldn't skyrocket so much, though of course, with anything new Disney does, there seems to be a premium price tag these days.

I'm really surprised that folks haven't keyed in on this as the main goal of most mature entertainment venues, not just theme and amusement parks. WDW is a very mature venue in the sense that it has reached a point where investment for general growth is becoming a very high cost, but attaching a premium and nudging out your budget visitors in favor of "open wallet" guests is a much less cost intensive measure with more immediate and obvious return (relatively speaking, the $2+bn NexGen investment is a slight anomaly in that regard). It doesn't require a very large increase in capacity in the long run, though in the short and intermediate timeframe you need to allow for that positive growth in attendance as you continue to reach the price point where profits continue to surge despite a flat or lowered attendance. You then reach an equilibrium where you only need to sustain your business. The last decade has been a sort of equilibrium with regards to the previous type of visitor WDW was targeting, current and short term growth/expansion will be squarely aimed at reaching that higher profit but slower or negative general growth equilibrium.

 

[bethymouse]

All I know from after visiting WDW this past week is that the crowds are up and Disney is just slipping in some of its abilities to handle crowds, and Fast Passes! It was ridiculous! DHS needs something, and so does EPCOT IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm sure your logic makes sense to you but if these rumours come to be a reality then you're ideas are clearly at odds with those of the decision makers at WDW.

It's not a debate I want to get into myself, personally I could care less about logistics and guest numbers,but speaking as a regular WDW guest I just want to see some much-needed improvements come to DHS and for me a Star Wars Land and a Pixar expansion of some sort certainly qualify as big improvements if they are done right.

Every Disney park needs improvements/maintenance on some level. But when fans talk about adding new lands, taking out whole areas (such as Streets of America which is very popular with the Osbourne Lights each year), of course money, guest demand projections and capacity issues come into play.

As WDW has record attendance, I would be surprised if DHS got one of the major rumored new attractions/lands in the near term. And of course, there are logistics issues.

I guess all of these rumors are fan driven wants for WDW. Not saying Carsland wouldn't be great at WDW, but that it doesn't make fiscal sense to do it in DHS, especially when increases in guest capacity are desperately needed.

 

[NewfieFan]

Attendance was down at DCA because of a perceived lack of quality, tongue in cheek. Disney knew they could do better, and they had plans for expansion, and they believed that there was potential in Anaheim to build something new, and charge a premium for them. Remember how ridiculous it was when DCA was charging high prices similar to Disneyland?

Given that DCA succeeded, so well, Burbank is kinda looking more closely at plans for a third gate in Anaheim because they realize there is still flexibility in the market.

If the market gurus in Burbank figured that DCA 1.0 was failing because everybody was going to Knotts, and that the crowds weren't coming back, then they would have slashed ticket prices even more, and perhaps keept DCA open on just certain days, or close earlier.

WDW's attendance growth proves there is a market, and if you don't think that 5-6 million *more* guests a year at WDW can be stuffed easily into a water park and that the parks aren't crowded as is . . . then I got a bridge to sell ya in Brooklyn!

WDW is kinda a city more "citizens" need more space to play.

I'm not going to get into the fifth gate debate and I'm surprised you're bringing it up. How can you seriously doubt these rumors and expansion ideas but in another breath talk about a fifth gate?

Disney has the space to play. There's plenty of expansion room within the current four parks. Whether they add rides or redo existing ones, the space is there for any influx of guests. When the other four parks are perfect than we can talk about the fifth park...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm really surprised that folks haven't keyed in on this as the main goal of most mature entertainment venues, not just theme and amusement parks. WDW is a very mature venue in the sense that it has reached a point where investment for general growth is becoming a very high cost, but attaching a premium and nudging out your budget visitors in favor of "open wallet" guests is a much less cost intensive measure with more immediate and obvious return (relatively speaking, the $2+bn NexGen investment is a slight anomaly in that regard). It doesn't require a very large increase in capacity in the long run, though in the short and intermediate timeframe you need to allow for that positive growth in attendance as you continue to reach the price point where profits continue to surge despite a flat or lowered attendance. You then reach an equilibrium where you only need to sustain your business. The last decade has been a sort of equilibrium with regards to the previous type of visitor WDW was targeting, current and short term growth/expansion will be squarely aimed at reaching that higher profit but slower or negative general growth equilibrium.

100% Agree!

Everything Disney has done recently is to sacrifice guest attendance for higher spending crowds. NextGen will allow guests to spend more, so you don't need more rides and more guests . . .just for the average guest to spend more!

Fans don't get that with hundreds of millions at stake, Disney graphs out expected demand for attractions and what the optimal ticket price will be in terms of profits. Obviously, if Disney charged $35 bucks admission and fair food prices, they be mobbed with tons of guests.

If fans want more reasonable wait times, less price increases, and less crowded parks, then building new lands/a fifth gate is the only way to go. With the rebounding economy the crowds are here to stay at WDW. Though of course there is a breaking point, if people give up spending 45 minutes to ride the Tea Cups.

I personally think that five theme parks operating at 95% capacity, versus four theme parks operating at 105% capacity, is the way to make money in the longterm, but with Shanghai and DCA 2.0 and other investments, is there the cash?

 

[FrankLapidus]

I guess all of these rumors are fan driven wants for WDW. Not saying Carsland wouldn't be great at WDW, but that it doesn't make fiscal sense to do it in DHS, especially when increases in guest capacity are desperately needed.

Nothing ever does seem to make sense to you besides a fifth gate which doesn't sound like its happening any time soon.

Time will tell if you're right or wrong. Personally, I think you might well be proven wrong here and are assuming that you know more, or better, than the people who's job it is to decide when and how the parks need and should be improved. But like I said I'm not getting into a debate again, I did over the Carsland rumours when you kept insisting that the only feasible way to add that particular land was to build it as past of a fifth gate and I have no desire to bang my head against that particular wall again.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm not going to get into the fifth gate debate and I'm surprised you're bringing it up. How can you seriously doubt these rumors and expansion ideas but in another breath talk about a fifth gate?

Disney has the space to play. There's plenty of expansion room within the current four parks. Whether they add rides or redo existing ones, the space is there for any influx of guests. When the other four parks are perfect than we can talk about the fifth park...

Adding Carsland to DHS won't soak up 5-6 million a year! Unless they build Carsland on the parking lot, there are issues with marginal increases in guest capacity. Remember, demand is already there.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Nothing ever does seem to make sense to you besides a fifth gate which isn't happening any time soon.

Time will tell if you're right or wrong. Personally, I think you might well be proved wrong and are assuming that you know more, or better, than the people who's job it is to decide when and how the parks need and should be improved. But like I said I'm not getting into a debate again, I did over the Carsland rumours when you kept insisting that the only feasible way to add that particular land was to build it as past of a fifth gate and I have no desire to bang my head against that particular wall again.

Obviously you wouldn't want to discuss what would happen to Osbourne Lights with Carsland.

So what besides new lands (built on undeveloped space) and a fifth park would soak up 5 million more guests? A new water park?

For the record, a couple new pavilions in Epcot, a new land in AK would make sense to me as this would be de novo developments that could soak up the guests.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Here is the conundrum:

Diehard Fans: "We want to see new stuff in DHS because we like all the parks to look good and DHS's Backlot has been neglected and we know about Carsland and DCA looks like DHS and eventually stuff gets imported to WDW so . . . hurry up and build it."

Burbank: "We'll have 5-6 million more guests over the next decade, where do we put them? Well, we could do a lot of little expansions, or save money by building a couple new lands, or get started on a fifth gate. Get out the maps and the expansion plans. We could also raise prices while we decide."

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

One factor favoring expansion at DHS (into the parking lot or across World Drive mind you) is that having a half-day park versus a full-day park costs Disney some in terms of the expenses of running the "free" transportation around the resort. I.e. monorail and the buses.

Though the reason for park hopping is also due to guest desire to see a show somewhere else, or to make dinner reservations at Epcot, not necessarily because a park is just a "half-day" park.

I'm not 100% against Carsland at DHS, but I'm a realist in that I know it will have to go into the parking lot, or across World Drive, which could be rerouted, but it would be expensive.

Eisner screwed up DHS as there is little room to easily expand this park, primo real estate was reserved for hotels.

But will DHS ever be able to soak another 5 million and hold as many guests as MK? Doubt it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Attendance being up slightly over a few years does not equate to being at capacity.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Obviously you wouldn't want to discuss what would happen to Osbourne Lights with Carsland.

So what besides new lands (built on undeveloped space) and a fifth park would soak up 5 million more guests? A new water park?

For the record, a couple new pavilions in Epcot, a new land in AK would make sense to me as this would be de novo developments that could soak up the guests.

It's not up to you or me what happens to Osbourne Lights. That will be decided by the people who are paid to weigh up the consequences of a potential overhaul like the one that could be happening at DHS.

Like I said, I could really care less about talking guest numbers and logistics. I learned from the Carsland debate that in your mind there's only one solution to all of the problems that you see at DHS so I'm not getting into it again.

I'd love new Epcot pavilions and a new land in AK (that has no association with Avatar), they would all improve my personal experience at WDW and that's what I care about, the same as everybody else.