Why Have People Put Up With Disney So Lazy and Cheap?

[eliza61nyc]

Holding Disney to a higher standard would be like:

-Wanting Chevrolet to creating a great race car with the new ZR1
-Holding high hopes for Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption 2 game
-being excited for the future of the new Tesla electric cars
-Anticipating the greatness that would be Christopher Nolan's next movie

Ridiculous, right!?

Lol. Thanks for the giggles, that was funny.

As evidenced by this thread there are so many variables and so much is based on perception.
Is it higher standard than the competition? Higher standard from 20, 30 years ago?? On and on. Is John q public comparing it or is it just the Disney loyalist who are concerned?
Does the mouseworld management even care.
All I can say for sure is if people are really upset, I hope they won't be afraid to "move on ". To spend 1000's of dollars on a vacation and the only thing you have are complaints is not good.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

You are clearly stuck on some type of anger an bargaining phase in terms of this subject.

When did I ever disagree that Disney has not expanded the parks? You continue to put words in my mouth and have yet to show me any proof that I said such things. A straw man fallacy is your only hope?

And the original longer track version had additional show scenes that would have made the attraction much more than "12 seconds" longer and I fail to see how additional track (the very same type of track the ride has now) could have possibly made it "less family friendly". And as usual you end your post with strong emotions and call everybody "miserable".

Are you trying to convince us, or yourself?

Now I see: you're a troll. I'm done with this and you. I explained all of that in my previous post (and the one before that).

But I will explain these things before I go, so that it won't look like I'm dodging: No. Not much more. 12-15 seconds, depending on the speed of the car. All you have to do is divide the time of the ride against the length of the final track, then estimate time with the other two tracks that you provided. It's easy. "Less family friendly." (I think I said possibly?) You see all the twists and turns in the first version? Some little kids (and parents) don't like those things.

Now, I'm done.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Lol. Thanks for the giggles, that was funny.

As evidenced by this thread there are so many variables and so much is based on perception.
Is it higher standard than the competition? Higher standard from 20, 30 years ago?? On and on. Is John q public comparing it or is it just the Disney loyalist who are concerned?
Does the mouseworld management even care.
All I can say for sure is if people are really upset, I hope they won't be afraid to "move on ". To spend 1000's of dollars on a vacation and the only thing you have are complaints is not good.

Agreed! Everyone thinks differently and it of course depends on our tastes, wants, emotions, etc.

At the end of the day, it's about $$$. To someone like me, a merger of Parks and merchandising would be a eye brow lifter. To someone who visits the parks every few years with their kids, I just don't see them caring. I'm too headstrong and opinionated to accept some of the newer stuff as I believe they're being thrown in solely to advertise. At least this has been the case at DL ("season" of the force, Mission Breakout, Pixar Pier, all junk to me).

 

[wdisney9000]

Now I see: you're a troll. I'm done with this and you. I explained all of that in my previous post (and the one before that).

But I will explain these things before I go, so that it won't look like I'm dodging: No. Not much more. 12-15 seconds, depending on the speed of the car. All you have to do is divide the time of the ride against the length of the final track, then estimate time with the other two tracks that you provided. It's easy. "Less family friendly." (I think I said possibly?) You see all the twists and turns in the first version? Some little kids (and parents) don't like those things.

Now, I'm done.

Now Im a troll? And everybody that disagrees with you is "miserable". Name calling is an emotional weapon and used when there is a lack of an educated or non emotional response and usually is an indicator of ones self esteem. And then you threaten that you are leaving which is just a form of basic coercion. It is the adult version of a child threatening to run away from home. Your emotions have now completely taken over.

As far as your theory that the attraction would only be 12-15 seconds longer, I believe you are wrong. From what I understand the additional show scenes would have the coaster slow down in a similar fashion to how the current show scene does. That most definitely add more than 12 seconds and also allow for a better story telling effect for the ride. I would also suggest that you avoid the new Slinky Dog coaster in Toy Story land because it has many more twists and turns than 7DMT which puts in your "less family friendly" classification.

 

[wdisney9000]

Prior to 2012 I said DVC is the best investment I ever made and we joined when you got length of stay passes for the parks during a stay on points, we were charter members at 2 resorts so yeah we LOVED DVC!

2012 and on was the beginning of a series of DVC related vacation snafu's (mild term inserted - real feelings would be unsuitable for a family board) that we found completely unacceptable.

I had 800 points across 7 contracts. It takes a lot to make me quit on anything but Disney managed it, It started with Disney losing the second half of a split stay during the hotels converting from the old system to LILO (thank god for Southwest) and got worse from there.

Through it all was the attitude of 'what do you expect me to do about it'. And that stems directly from TDO's disempowerment of the front line CM/Manager to actually fix things because while the guest expects the CM in front of them to be able to fix an issue in reality that decision needs to be punted to a 'senior' manager who does not want to be bothered with low level administrivia in addition to their regular duties.

As to family when they are addicted to drugs and constantly wanting money without earning it, Yeah you do cut them off from further contact and give up on them.

Yeah for 30 years WDW was my 'happy place' sadly corporate greed has left that feeling 'null and void'

In the 30+ years I have been visiting (15+ years as an adult paying for myself), I have had my fair share of snafu's. Some major, some minor. None that were not resolved by keeping calm and working with Disney to fix the issue. I have had several resort issues upon check in and simple proof such as email, screenshot, confirmation numbers, etc. is usually enough to get the ball rolling. We had an issue a few years ago at BC when we checked in which tarted off with a rude CM but when Ispoke to the manager (calmly), he quickly provided us with a temporary room and explained that there are always "emergency" rooms available in the event of a situation like ours. Not sure what happened with your situation but its hard to imagine Disney not taking care of you in some way, even if it would be a different resort or different type of room.

 

[ford91exploder]

In the 30+ years I have been visiting (15+ years as an adult paying for myself), I have had my fair share of snafu's. Some major, some minor. None that were not resolved by keeping calm and working with Disney to fix the issue. I have had several resort issues upon check in and simple proof such as email, screenshot, confirmation numbers, etc. is usually enough to get the ball rolling. We had an issue a few years ago at BC when we checked in which tarted off with a rude CM but when Ispoke to the manager (calmly), he quickly provided us with a temporary room and explained that there are always "emergency" rooms available in the event of a situation like ours. Not sure what happened with your situation but its hard to imagine Disney not taking care of you in some way, even if it would be a different resort or different type of room.

Here's the rub insiders on the business side of TDO have repored that TDO executives consider DVC members and AP holders as 'bad business' because they are a drag on the revenue numbers.

That said as far as they are concered you are 'locked in' as in WDW knows they have your money, And with DVC they have your money for the next 30-40 years.

As such WDW managers have no incentive to 'make it right' because it's not like a DVC member is going to end their stay and head off to the Swolfin or the Marriott Grand Vista. So when you have a problem the attitude is generally 'suck it up buttercup, youre lucky to be here'. And if DVC members end their stay early well thats an upsell possibility for CRO and 'breakage' income for DVD.

As I've said this is a NEW attitude which started about 2012 and followed the end of the 'open' association meetings where at one time members could go 'on the record' about issues with DVC.

Also read your contract carefully, while DVD MUST give you your yearly allocation of points, there are NO corresponding guarantees that you will be able to exchange them for DVC lodging directly during your use year. Trade them for 'cash' rooms yes, ABD yes, cruises Yes, RCI Yes. see a pattern here?

I wish you better experiences than we have had with DVC recently, For a long time it was GREAT, I was its biggest fan and did lots of referrals to other people. Recently just awful and getting worse.

Like everything else going wrong at WDW it's because they no longer see you as a Guest rather they see you as a wallet.

 

[jakeman]

Here's the rub insiders on the business side of TDO have repored that TDO executives consider DVC members and AP holders as 'bad business' because they are a drag on the revenue numbers.

Please provide a source.

 

[eliza61nyc]

So I'm here now at Kidani village. I've owned since 2000. NEVER, EVER have I not gotten a corresponding room for my points. I've got another vacation in August at OKW. The resort is fabulous! Room spectacular and we are having a ball.
I'll post a few specifics tomorrow but I see not one thing wrong. Parks are spotless, cms have been beyond helpful and had 4 wonderful meals. LOL 2 in my party are 1st timers and love it.

So I have not had all these horrible experiences with my dvc and if I'm a "drag" in business they certainly haven't treated me that way.
18 years of fabulous vacations and counting.

 

[Figment_Of_Imagination]

Honestly, I still feel the magic every time we visit. There's nothing that makes me feel as excited as booking the next Disney trip. Sure, there are some pitfalls here and there but overall I love disney and find it to be just as amazing as it was when I visited as a kid.

 

[wdisney9000]

Here's the rub insiders on the business side of TDO have repored that TDO executives consider DVC members and AP holders as 'bad business' because they are a drag on the revenue numbers.

I would have to respectfully disagree. If they felt DVC was a drag on revenue, then why continue to build more DVC additions?

 

[ford91exploder]

I would have to respectfully disagree. If they felt DVC was a drag on revenue, then why continue to build more DVC additions?

Because initial DVC sales are insanely profitable, Example at the BLT inital offering price the 15.7 million points that were sold brought in about 875 million dollars (plus financing income). BLT itself probably cost about $250 million to build and furnish. That's a REALLY nice profit but it's a one time event.

However once that's done the DVC rooms bring in far less revenue than selling the same room for cash. Right now say a GV rents for 75 points per day, based on MF that's about $700 bucks/night, Since that SAME room can via breakage be sold for cash for $2500-$3500/Night which customers make the Disney books look better? Hint it's not the DVC customer.

Using the insurance industry's term of art it creates a significant 'Moral Hazard' for gamesmanship.

DVC members would be a lot better off if there was an 'arms length' relationship between DVC and TWDC but right now since everyone reports to the same BoD, The pressure is on DVD to make the maximum revenue even at the cost of member satisfaction.

Disney's model these days is the 'One and Done' guest because they SPEND the most on everything from rooms to merchandise, DVC is a relic of a day when Disney cared about the repeat guest, The only reason it still exists is it allows Disney to build hotels for 'Free'.

 

[wdisney9000]

Because initial DVC sales are insanely profitable, Example at the BLT inital offering price the 15.7 million points that were sold brought in about 875 million dollars (plus financing income). BLT itself probably cost about $250 million to build and furnish. That's a REALLY nice profit but it's a one time event.

However once that's done the DVC rooms bring in far less revenue than selling the same room for cash. Right now say a GV rents for 75 points per day, based on MF that's about $700 bucks/night, Since that SAME room can via breakage be sold for cash for $2500-$3500/Night which customers make the Disney books look better? Hint it's not the DVC customer.

Using the insurance industry's term of art it creates a significant 'Moral Hazard' for gamesmanship.

DVC members would be a lot better off if there was an 'arms length' relationship between DVC and TWDC but right now since everyone reports to the same BoD, The pressure is on DVD to make the maximum revenue even at the cost of member satisfaction.

Disney's model these days is the 'One and Done' guest because they SPEND the most on everything from rooms to merchandise, DVC is a relic of a day when Disney cared about the repeat guest, The only reason it still exists is it allows Disney to build hotels for 'Free'.

I think BLT is the one exception that has a higher rate of actual DVC members staying vs guests staying paying cash. Most of the other DVC resorts have a high volume of "cash room" guests, such as AKL, BWV, BCV, SSR, OKW and even GFV and Poly seem to have a pretty high rate of cash paying guests. All those resorts are generating a lot of revenue even though there are many DVC guests there as well. Add in the money that the DVC guests drop of food and merch, I would wager that it adds up to a nice chunk of change. Just my guess though. I have no clue what the actual revenue numbers are

 

[ford91exploder]

I think BLT is the one exception that has a higher rate of actual DVC members staying vs guests staying paying cash. Most of the other DVC resorts have a high volume of "cash room" guests, such as AKL, BWV, BCV, SSR, OKW and even GFV and Poly seem to have a pretty high rate of cash paying guests. All those resorts are generating a lot of revenue even though there are many DVC guests there as well. Add in the money that the DVC guests drop of food and merch, I would wager that it adds up to a nice chunk of change. Just my guess though. I have no clue what the actual revenue numbers are

I also have no idea of the revenue numbers but with a fair amount of certainty I can say that a CASH guest generates far more revenue than a DVC guest.

 

[eliza61nyc]

but aren't you basing this on an "assumption" that all dvc rooms would even sell at regular price points. that's a huge assumption. would the market bear 7k a night rooms (3 bedroom grand villas)??
from what I understand, which is obviously not as much as others it seems Disney is perpetually in discount mode to keep the deluxes full. I don't know anyone who has ever paid rack rate for a room especially without a free dining promotion.

 

[John park hopper]

I am confused---- if Disney has to discount rooms and offer "free dining" in order to keep the resorts filled why then the continual price increases year after year

 

[ParentsOf4]

I am confused---- if Disney has to discount rooms and offer "free dining" in order to keep the resorts filled why then the continual price increases year after year

Two reasons.

First, discounted prices are not offered year-round. Even when discounts are offered, some pay full price, being unaware of discounts.

Second, many buyers will purchase only if an item is "on sale". So, raise the MSRP to a high level and then offer a "discount" on that high MSRP. It's a very old pricing strategy that, time and again, has been proven to work.

In their financial disclosures, Disney reports a metric called "Per Room Guest Spending" (PRGS), which is the amount spent at the hotels per occupied room. This number's annual increase tends to closely follow the amount Disney increases the price of its hotels, food, and merchandise. (PRGS also includes food and merchandise sales at the hotels.)

However, this metric performs better in years when Disney offers fewer discounts, and worse in years when Disney offers more discounts.

Historically, WDW discounts are a function of two factors: the overall economy and new offerings.

When the economy is strong or WDW adds a major attraction, then Disney offers fewer discounts.