Where in the World Isn't Bob Saget?

Mr Ferret 75

Mr Ferret 75

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Songbird76

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
PUSH said:
To be fair to teachers and schools, they were fed a line of crap for decades. The programs that gained popularity promised to address all kids' needs in easy ways. And they have "evidence" to prove it. However, none of the "evidence" was research based. Again, I recommend the Sold a Story podcast to learn more. It's fascinating.

As far as the "sound counting" down his arm, I'm assuming you mean he tapped the sounds. That is a good strategy, and that is how students learn how to read. It's part of the Science of Reading. Segmenting sounds is incredibly important when you go to encode (spell words) and decode (sound out words). Tapping on your arm is just one way it can be done, although I like to have kids tap their fingers.

He's not actually tapping syllables, but phonemes (the smallest unit of sound). For example, if we segment "cat" into it's phonemes, you would hear /c/ /a/ /t/. It has three phonemes. If he was talking about syllables, he likely confused syllables for sounds. Obviously "cat" only has one syllable, and that's because it has only one vowel sound.

Doing it orally, without any words, is part of phonemic awareness, which is crucial for good reading. It's almost "prereading". It's the manipulation of sounds. Often when a student is struggling with reading, it's because they have poor phonemic awareness. In the whole language approach, there was no instruction on this aspect of reading.
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I'm curious about the process of learning to read nowadays, because I heard somewhere that schools are now requiring kids to learn to read and write before they let them into kindergarten? Or at least in my home town in Wyoming. When I was there a couple of years ago, I was talking to a woman working at Walmart who said that her son had just had to do the assessment for kindergarten, which I vaguely remember something like....they wanted to know if kids knew their colors, could count to 10 or 20, knew their alphabet, etc...but she said now, they expect kids to know how to do all the things they USED to do in kindergarten. And I remember when I started kindergarten, we were learning the letters. I remember my mom coming to help in our class with the letter D....we made donuts. My parents were seperated at the time, and we were living with a friend in a different town. When my parents got divorced, the judge granted the divorce on the condition that we had to move back onto the ranch with my dad for 6 months and they were to get counseling. So I had to switch schools right after my 6th birthday, halfway through kindergarten. At this school, they were already reading, so I was behind, and remember the teacher putting the word "run" up on the board and asking me to read it, but I didn't know how to read. I was so embarrassed, because all the other kids knew how to read, and there I was in front of everyone, and I couldn't do it. I've never forgotten that. And it was just a difference between schools and when they taught things. But someone said there was a push to get kids started reading faster and stop the play-oriented kindergarten. I wondered if that was all over the US, or if that is just a thing in my hometown area. My kids would have thrived in that environment, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. They also both did really well with remote learning during Corona when most kids struggled without the regular instruction. I'm just curious.
 
MinnieM123

MinnieM123

Premium Member
PUSH

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Songbird76 said:
I'm curious about the process of learning to read nowadays, because I heard somewhere that schools are now requiring kids to learn to read and write before they let them into kindergarten? Or at least in my home town in Wyoming. When I was there a couple of years ago, I was talking to a woman working at Walmart who said that her son had just had to do the assessment for kindergarten, which I vaguely remember something like....they wanted to know if kids knew their colors, could count to 10 or 20, knew their alphabet, etc...but she said now, they expect kids to know how to do all the things they USED to do in kindergarten. And I remember when I started kindergarten, we were learning the letters. I remember my mom coming to help in our class with the letter D....we made donuts. My parents were seperated at the time, and we were living with a friend in a different town. When my parents got divorced, the judge granted the divorce on the condition that we had to move back onto the ranch with my dad for 6 months and they were to get counseling. So I had to switch schools right after my 6th birthday, halfway through kindergarten. At this school, they were already reading, so I was behind, and remember the teacher putting the word "run" up on the board and asking me to read it, but I didn't know how to read. I was so embarrassed, because all the other kids knew how to read, and there I was in front of everyone, and I couldn't do it. I've never forgotten that. And it was just a difference between schools and when they taught things. But someone said there was a push to get kids started reading faster and stop the play-oriented kindergarten. I wondered if that was all over the US, or if that is just a thing in my hometown area. My kids would have thrived in that environment, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. They also both did really well with remote learning during Corona when most kids struggled without the regular instruction. I'm just curious.
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They don't need to read in order to be let into kindergarten. At least not public schools. But I bet they do fall benchmark assessments to see where students are at. They probably don't expect them to know how to read at that point.

By the end of kindergarten, we want them to be able to read CVC words like "ham". As well as digraphs like th, sh, and ch. Then in first grade we get into long vowel spellings.

Play based kindergarten is mostly a thing of the past. It's unfortunate, but I also understand the need for more academics.

As far as learning letters, research says it's better to start with sounds before letters. It's a shift from how many people learned, but it's part of the phonemic awareness I was talking about.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
Coming next month, the first Canadian coin to feature King Charles III. This image will be featured on all of our coinage, starting with the Loonie. (Make of that what you will.)

Current $1 coin, aka Loonie
View attachment 754215

New image with Charles:
View attachment 754212

Looks more like him than the image Australia has chosen:
View attachment 754213
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Pretty generous with hair for King Chucky. ;) I still don't think it's fair that he was born 2 months after me and I'm not King. I should have been next in line. I do have to give the Brits credit that they have no problem with hiring the elderly. I guess we don't either. Personally I decide based on degree of insanity. And the bar was pretty low for a while.
 
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Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
Coming next month, the first Canadian coin to feature King Charles III. This image will be featured on all of our coinage, starting with the Loonie. (Make of that what you will.)

Current $1 coin, aka Loonie
View attachment 754215

New image with Charles:
View attachment 754212

Looks more like him than the image Australia has chosen:
View attachment 754213
Click to expand...
I just noticed that and it's because Australia gave him a face lift and backed off the natural aging. I'm his age and I no longer have a wrinkle free face and neck.
 
FutureCEO

FutureCEO

Well-Known Member
www.insider.com

An American woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska isn't actually an island, calling for an 'overhaul' of the school curriculum

A woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska is not an island, and that you can drive to it, despite how it looks on the maps she saw at school.
www.insider.com www.insider.com

I'm not sure if she's doing this for views or she's actually serious. I never thought of Alaska as an island so... but then again people think Rhode Island is part of Long Island and an actual island. :banghead: :banghead:
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
FutureCEO said:
www.insider.com

An American woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska isn't actually an island, calling for an 'overhaul' of the school curriculum

A woman said she was shocked to discover that Alaska is not an island, and that you can drive to it, despite how it looks on the maps she saw at school.
www.insider.com www.insider.com

I'm not sure if she's doing this for views or she's actually serious. I never thought of Alaska as an island so... but then again people think Rhode Island is part of Long Island and an actual island. :banghead: :banghead:
Click to expand...
I wondered how this could be possible, but there is a semi-plausible explanation in the article.

“As it is one of the US's noncontiguous states, along with Hawaii, it is often shown separately in a box at the bottom of maps of the US, which could lead some people to assume it's not part of the same land mass.”
 
Songbird76

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
PUSH said:
They don't need to read in order to be let into kindergarten. At least not public schools. But I bet they do fall benchmark assessments to see where students are at. They probably don't expect them to know how to read at that point.

By the end of kindergarten, we want them to be able to read CVC words like "ham". As well as digraphs like th, sh, and ch. Then in first grade we get into long vowel spellings.

Play based kindergarten is mostly a thing of the past. It's unfortunate, but I also understand the need for more academics.

As far as learning letters, research says it's better to start with sounds before letters. It's a shift from how many people learned, but it's part of the phonemic awareness I was talking about.
Click to expand...
That's interesting.... It makes sense, that they start with the CVC and then the digraphs, but how do you teach the sounds without teaching the letters that make them? I remember learning random letters. I specifically remember D because that was the one where my mom came and we made donuts. But I know we learned others... It was like, Mrs. D and Mr. M. and then we learned words that started with that letter. And when my daughter was in this special class, they did a letter box. They had this little tiny suitcase and every week it went home with a different kid, with a different letter in it. They had to put things in the suitcase that started with the letter they were given. It was all letter oriented. Of course they learned the sound it made, but it was based on the letter.

I wonder why my home area is so set on kids already being able to read and write before kindergarten. It seems kind of counter-intuitive. Not every parent is a good teacher, and some parents might be all but illiterate themselves. That's what school is supposed to be for. To teach them. It doesn't make sense to put that onto people who have no training and possibly very little education themselves. But several people told me that's the way it is now. It just boggles my mind. I was quite a late bloomer. My birthday missed the cutoff, so I was nearly 6 when I started kindergarten and I couldn't read. I knew the alphabet, but not how to sound out words. I'd never have made it in!
 
Songbird76

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
I wondered how this could be possible, but there is a semi-plausible explanation in the article.

“As it is one of the US's noncontiguous states, along with Hawaii, it is often shown separately in a box at the bottom of maps of the US, which could lead some people to assume it's not part of the same land mass.”
Click to expand...
Yep... I thought that for a while until I got older and we started studying geography in school. I was probably 10 before I found out it was attached.
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
Songbird76 said:
Yep... I thought that for a while until I got older and we started studying geography in school. I was probably 10 before I found out it was attached.
Click to expand...
Most maps of Canada show Alaska as well, (mainly to illustrate coastlines), so I would think the vast majority of us know it’s not an island.

IMG_4973.png

Without showing Alaska, it mistakenly makes it look like Yukon Territory borders the Pacific Ocean.
IMG_4974.png
 
Songbird76

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
Most maps of Canada show Alaska as well, (mainly to illustrate coastlines), so I would think the vast majority of us know it’s not an island.

View attachment 754362

Without showing Alaska, it mistakenly makes it look like Yukon Territory borders the Pacific Ocean.
View attachment 754363
Click to expand...
I also used to think Alaska was next to Hawaii because that's where it's always shown on a US map. In my case, I learned that it wasn't where I thought it was in elementary school. But given that there are US citizens who can't even find their state on a map, and can't find the US on a map of the word, apparently the education system has failed a lot of people.
 
PUSH

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Songbird76 said:
That's interesting.... It makes sense, that they start with the CVC and then the digraphs, but how do you teach the sounds without teaching the letters that make them? I remember learning random letters. I specifically remember D because that was the one where my mom came and we made donuts. But I know we learned others... It was like, Mrs. D and Mr. M. and then we learned words that started with that letter. And when my daughter was in this special class, they did a letter box. They had this little tiny suitcase and every week it went home with a different kid, with a different letter in it. They had to put things in the suitcase that started with the letter they were given. It was all letter oriented. Of course they learned the sound it made, but it was based on the letter.

I wonder why my home area is so set on kids already being able to read and write before kindergarten. It seems kind of counter-intuitive. Not every parent is a good teacher, and some parents might be all but illiterate themselves. That's what school is supposed to be for. To teach them. It doesn't make sense to put that onto people who have no training and possibly very little education themselves. But several people told me that's the way it is now. It just boggles my mind. I was quite a late bloomer. My birthday missed the cutoff, so I was nearly 6 when I started kindergarten and I couldn't read. I knew the alphabet, but not how to sound out words. I'd never have made it in!
Click to expand...
They do things orally. For example, they learn to say and blend the sounds /c/ /a/ /t/, into the word cat. But it's done orally, with no letters. Then when they learn the letters, they connect them to the sounds. Because a letter is pretty meaningless if you don't know the sound that it represents. After all, the only reason we have letters is to represent sounds in a written form. Thank the Phonecians.
 
PUSH

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
PUSH said:
They do things orally. For example, they learn to say and blend the sounds /c/ /a/ /t/, into the word cat. But it's done orally, with no letters. Then when they learn the letters, they connect them to the sounds. Because a letter is pretty meaningless if you don't know the sound that it represents. After all, the only reason we have letters is to represent sounds in a written form. Thank the Phonecians.
Click to expand...
Quoting myself, I know...

The human brain is wired for speech. We learn that naturally. It is not wired for reading. We have to be explicitly taught that. That's another reason oral manipulation of words comes first.
 
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Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Lilofan said:
The US map you might have seen placing AK next to HI was maybe an April Fools joke. In regards to some US citizens that can't find their state on a map, I've never come across someone who did not know. For education in our country failing a lot of people nothing can be farther from the truth.
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No, it was for space. In order to show the correct location of Alaska the map of the US would have had to include Canada which would have only served to confuse the easily confusable even more. It also was scaled much smaller then the lower 48. I'm not sure about whether the scale of Hawaii is the same as the mainland.
 
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