Where in the World is Bob Saget?

[Zweiland]

Daylight Saving Time was almost certainly invented by Meg. I can't get to sleep, and I have to be up early tomorrow. Ugh.

 

[englanddg]

Home Depot is not going to like this.

The same group did the work for Home Depot.

 

[englanddg]

They came up with the little home depot man, if you remember him...

 

[englanddg]

I may get flamed for this, but I don't understand why teachers can't keep their own classrooms clean.

 

[Gabe1]

When was this PTO meeting?

Here's the thing I found when I was (admittedly not a BoE member) but working with BoE and frankly government people in general.

The term "budget" is a joke to them. It's used as an excuse when they want to do something, and since they are never held accountable to it, it's the eternal excuse to push whatever their own pet project is. Either it was done due to political means, or it wasn't done due to political means...all of which are "magically" out of their control.

I would never make it on a BoE, because the first thing I would require of every "highly" education "principal" is that they submit to me the years budget, in detail. Starting with facility expenditures and ending with, what I would term, "fluff" (staff rewards, incentive programs, etc.)...

I doubt most Principals spend more than a few hours on such concerns. Rather, their role...as they have grown to see it, is to deflect negative attention from themselves (for their own advancement) and to reflect any negative attention back to the board/county/big blob of "not enough money"...

It really makes me want to puke, as the only ones who suffer from this sort of weak leadership (and it's all over) are the children.

Hey, if you want to turn your business from a cheetah to a sloth, that is your prerogative. But, if you want to do so at the expense of children's development?

Yeah...it makes me sick.

(note, I use the proverbial you, not YOU @Gabe1)

I'm not taking that personally but even the board members I take exception to do not take the budget as a joke. We have to balance a budget. Line items cannot merge without permission. (that is why I had the Musical Funds broken out into separate line items.) Some funds legally cannot be rededicated to other funds. If we 'borrow' from those funds that are permissible we have to vote and in that vote we have a payback date. Every year we need to borrow against funds because our district operates 90% off of local property taxes that are paid in two installments. The second installment never arrives by the close of the financial year from the country. We have to pay salaries and utilities but the money always comes back and we are required by law to be audited. So like us or hate us on a whole, we are accountable and we are easier to get rid of than a bad teacher or an administrator 'cause we are all elected officials here, at the Will of the Residents. We are not tenured, we are not paid. In the 20+ years I've had a kid in our district not one of us and there have been many, have ever climbed to a higher political post. You need some good financial backing to do that and we BOE members generally have our own careers already and if we are good or bad members we just seem to know better than to want to jump into real politics.

Though we all do seem to come in with our own agendas. I had an over achieving DD for her grade level. A math wiz. I had a teacher explain to me their gifted program was the reading girls and the math boys cause girls don't like math and boys don't like to read so the girls would not go into accelerated math curriculum. Ultimately my DD got perfect scores on her ACT and SAT in the math portions. Her talent. (didn't get it from me, her Dad, also a math major in college) My DD was also an IEP student as she had a physical disability that could interfere with her learning. No IEP students in gifted learning programs.

That is when I ran for the BOE. I was ticked. My agenda was accelerated learning not being held back by grade level curriculum or gender and IEP students being allowed to excel. I also needed to draw attention to this antiquated thought process of what girls couldn't do. I was appalled that in the year 2000 that we had math boys and reading girls, by a female teacher that was younger than me. If I could have unloaded that tenured teacher I would have. She is still there.

What do you mean When was this PTO meeting...not following your question. Day Month Time of Day????

 

[acishere]

Daylight Saving Time was almost certainly invented by Meg. I can't get to sleep, and I have to be up early tomorrow. Ugh.

I like it getting darker later, but this time change is brutal. How is it 2am right now?

We need to eliminate non-daylight savings time.

 

[englanddg]

What do you mean When was this PTO meeting...not following your question. Day Month Time of Day????

Time of year is what I meant...was it before the coming school year. To cut a drama / music collaboration program mid-year, to me, would be inexcusable (though I have seen it done)...

To do so prior to a coming year, however, is a different discussion.

It sounds like you are a rather small district, and one that is relatively stable politically. Certainly not a viable one. I suspect your district in state and federal elections is rather solid one way or another, so both state party organizations, largely, ignore your BoE politics. This is fairly common.

You are not a battleground district. And, that is good for you all.

 

[Gabe1]

I may get flamed for this, but I don't understand why teachers can't keep their own classrooms clean.

Meaning what? Organized or physically clean a classroom?

There is no way I'm going to tell any professional to wash windows, vacuum rugs, scrub desks, wash white boards, take out garbage etc. They are contracted for 8 hour days, 6.5 in classroom, balance for grading, lesson planning, parent contacting, data (grades etc) online, before and after-school help for students. Homework online postings.

When I was still in a corporate environment we had a custodial service come in at night that dealt with cleaning the office building.

 

[Gabe1]

Time of year is what I meant...was it before the coming school year. To cut a drama / music collaboration program mid-year, to me, would be inexcusable (though I have seen it done)...

To do so prior to a coming year, however, is a different discussion.

It sounds like you are a rather small district, and one that is relatively stable politically. Certainly not a viable one. I suspect your district in state and federal elections is rather solid one way or another, so both state party organizations, largely, ignore your BoE politics. This is fairly common.

You are not a battleground district. And, that is good for you all.

Not sure what you mean by us not being a viable one??? We are in the top 10 of the state academically so I consider that viable. Politics can not alter our funding. We are 90% locally funded so we are not influenced by the state of feds. The funds we get out the 10% are fixed for transportation, partial funding for language challenges, milk, etc.
Most Federal and State mandates are never fully funded, not even close, no matter what state you hail from so I never cared what politicians spouted at election time.

 

[Gabe1]

Warning: Mini-rant ahead!

I've been sitting here for about an hour trying to start a rough draft for a research paper, but I have no idea where to go. We are supposed to be forming a research question based off of research we did on this region of the world. Well, I researched my family history and have absolutely zero ideas of what to write about. My professor is no help either. Whenever you ask her a question she starts to answer it and then trails off into nowhere. She usually leaves you more confused than you were. I asked her about my topic, and she said it was too broad and I'd have to narrow it down. Then she started going off on some idea, but there's absolutely no sources to research further into it. Between sources, her open-ended instructions, and the confusion of her class, I'm getting to the point that I'm just going to BS (not Bob Saget) the entire thing.

Rant over.

I'm sorry. She sounds like a real prize. Good luck with all that. Seems like we all have had our ramts on education this weekend.

 

[englanddg]

Meaning what? Organized or physically clean a classroom?

There is no way I'm going to tell any professional to wash windows, vacuum rugs, scrub desks, wash white boards, take out garbage etc. They are contracted for 8 hour days, 6.5 in classroom, balance for grading, lesson planning, parent contacting, data (grades etc) online, before and after-school help for students. Homework online postings.

When I was still in a corporate environment we had a custodial service come in at night that dealt with cleaning the office building.

Both organize and physically clean. Why should that be a line item? How hard is it to pay a professional to clean their own room or to (more importantly) task their younger audience to do so?

So, because someone is smart they are allowed to be dirty? Because they have an "education" they are allowed to feel entitled? (the latter is the real reason, I think)...

Does a professional cook get to blame their dirty cutting board on someone else?

I will certainly tell a "professional teacher" that they should wash windows, vacuum rugs, wipe down desks, wash white boards and take out garbage. We are talking about a total of 15 minutes of work if they don't drag their butts. It's not like a teacher at a local school has better things to do. Their JOB is to present information to children and inspire them. And part of that is their surroundings. The minute they wish to cede their surroundings to a "clean up crew", I question their intent.

What puts them "above" such work? The fact they got a degree? Well, considering they can't churn out intellectuals who can compete internationally, but when teachers did have to care about their environment did make us one of the best educated in the world, I'd say we have an issue.

Additionally, why can't children clean up after themselves? Why have a child sit in detention staring at the walls instead of cleaning the school desks?

Going even further, why not have extra-curricular (paid at minimum wage by the district) where students are involved in the maintenance of the school properties? Or food preparation? Or landscaping? Or plumbing and electrical work? Real world skills that these same lazy "educated" teachers pay hundreds of dollars for in their houses they pay for with their salaries because they are too stupid to do it themselves...when none of it is that frigging complex.

But, they are too stupid to do it on their own, but they CAN tell my kid she is stupid because of their own arbitrary definitions.

Yeah, I promised I wouldn't rant...

I won't...and this is turning into a rant. So, I'll stop. Sorry to rant.

My point is simple. Schools are a great way to educate children, and they certainly should be tax subsidized and free. However, when the schools have become centers of failure, when the schools have become units of income for the bureaucracy...then things should be evaluated.

And, that evaluation is not being done. And, the reason why I would never make it to BoE, is...I would demand that evaluation. And, I'd be shut down by the political class who controls it.

 

[englanddg]

Not sure what you mean by us not being a viable one??? We are in the top 10 of the state academically so I consider that viable. Politics can not alter our funding. We are 90% locally funded so we are not influenced by the state of feds. The funds we get out the 10% are fixed for transportation, partial funding for language challenges, milk, etc.
Most Federal and State mandates are never fully funded, not even close, no matter what state you hail from so I never cared what politicians spouted at election time.

Again, a rather predictable and small district.

 

[Gabe1]

I'll give you an example of how stupid honoring "education" over "ability" is...

A practical example.

When I worked for the federal government, years ago, on a military network, we got hit by the Chinese often.

The guy who ran it all was a GS-13...how did he get his GS-13? Well, he met, among other things, the educational requirements.

He was quite proud of his education, insisting that he be called "Doctor"...

Because he had a doctorate.

He chewed me out one day, because I called him Mr.

NO... HE HAS A DOCTORATE!!!

In...Theology.

He's over IT for a rather large region, but, he should be referred to as Doctor...because he has a Doctorate in friggin THEOLOGY!

Think about that for a few minutes.

Then realize that if you have to rely upon your certifications alone to justify your performance or your position, than you probably cannot perform.

It is etiquette. All of our principals are required to have a doctorate. They are all addressed as Dr. Teachers that have doctorates are also addressed as Dr. The balance Mr. and Mrs. We as board members in a meeting are addressed as Member Smith, Member Jones, Member Day etc. Never would anyone call me Mrs Smith or Gabe in a meeting. My sister always has Esquire in her correspondence to her as she is an attorney, also having a doctorate.

 

[englanddg]

I listened to my father explain how great UT is with their "academic commitment" to their scholars.

And, I am quite aware of Pat Summitt's record that under her reign, no women's B-Ball scholar player has not graduated. I am also aware that Pat (and other athletic programs) pumped a BUNCH of money into their systems to provide state of the art tutoring centers for their players.

What I didn't have the heart to tell him was...where they ended up.

The first Pat Summitt grad I employed was in Louisville, KY.

A great woman (they all are)...

She graduated UT with her business degree, and ended up working for me, a high school grad.

And she made, at the time (early 2000s) 34k a year.

I have lost touch with her, but her life could have gone three ways. One, she ended up breaking into corporate (which I know she didn't), or she ended up owning the industry and going off to other things (which I suspect she didn't, as all she wanted to do was show up and do a good job, which she did!). The third way is that she went off and did something for herself, which I doubt she did.

Mind you, she was an amazing person, and certainly an asset. She never saw herself as such, and that is where Pat fooled them all.

If you want a real world breakdown, here it is.

You are an asset, you are a liability or you are an expense.

Or you control it yourself.

Learn that, realize that.

 

[englanddg]

It is etiquette. All of our principals are required to have a doctorate. They are all addressed as Dr. Teachers that have doctorates are also addressed as Dr. The balance Mr. and Mrs. We as board members in a meeting are addressed as Member Smith, Member Jones, Member Day etc. Never would anyone call me Mrs Smith or Gabe in a meeting. My sister always has Esquire in her correspondence to her as she is an attorney, also having a doctorate.

Titles are worthless without proof of performance.

We both agree that a certain amount of civility is required, but submission is not.

A title is just that, a title. It does not denote submission of authority. However, many think it does.

 

[englanddg]

Would you hire someone who has never run a restaurant, but studied "business" to run your new restaurant?

No...you wouldn't.

If you did, you need to have your head examined.

 

[Gabe1]

Both organize and physically clean. Why should that be a line item? How hard is it to pay a professional to clean their own room or to (more importantly) task their younger audience to do so?

So, because someone is smart they are allowed to be dirty? Because they have an "education" they are allowed to feel entitled? (the latter is the real reason, I think)...

Does a professional cook get to blame their dirty cutting board on someone else?

I will certainly tell a "professional teacher" that they should wash windows, vacuum rugs, wipe down desks, wash white boards and take out garbage. We are talking about a total of 15 minutes of work if they don't drag their butts. It's not like a teacher at a local school has better things to do. Their JOB is to present information to children and inspire them. And part of that is their surroundings. The minute they wish to cede their surroundings to a "clean up crew", I question their intent.

What puts them "above" such work? The fact they got a degree? Well, considering they can't churn out intellectuals who can compete internationally, but when teachers did have to care about their environment did make us one of the best educated in the world, I'd say we have an issue.

Additionally, why can't children clean up after themselves? Why have a child sit in detention staring at the walls instead of cleaning the school desks?

Going even further, why not have extra-curricular (paid at minimum wage by the district) where students are involved in the maintenance of the school properties? Or food preparation? Or landscaping? Or plumbing and electrical work? Real world skills that these same lazy "educated" teachers pay hundreds of dollars for in their houses they pay for with their salaries because they are too stupid to do it themselves...when none of it is that frigging complex.

But, they are too stupid to do it on their own, but they CAN tell my kid she is stupid because of their own arbitrary definitions.

Yeah, I promised I wouldn't rant...

I won't...and this is turning into a rant. So, I'll stop. Sorry to rant.

My point is simple. Schools are a great way to educate children, and they certainly should be tax subsidized and free. However, when the schools have become centers of failure, when the schools have become units of income for the bureaucracy...then things should be evaluated.

And, that evaluation is not being done. And, the reason why I would never make it to BoE, is...I would demand that evaluation. And, I'd be shut down by the political class who controls it.

We are on opposite sides of the fence here. I believe students are in school to be educated, not to do chores.
I believe teachers are professionals hired to educate students not be part time custodians. It is cheaper to hire custodians than to pay certified teachers a stipend to clean especially in overtime stipend range and I'm not in favor of taking time away from student education become slave labor. There job is to be a student and to become educated. If a parent wants to have their children learn to clean, they can do so at home.

I have a DD that is highly allergic to most cleaning supplies. I wash floors and bathrooms when she will not be in the house for several hours. She cannot use team towels as she is allergic to the soap. Can't use school hand soap either, brought her own. With all the asthmatic students we have in a district we would get sued if any of these kids became ill by the chemicals that went airborne while they were in our charge. Add in the latex allergies, oy. We have to send out warnings and opt outs when we have to use pesticides in the school or fertilizer on the lawns by law.

 

[englanddg]

We are on opposite sides of the fence here. I believe students are in school to be educated, not to do chores.
I believe teachers are professionals hired to educate students not be part time custodians. It is cheaper to hire custodians than to pay certified teachers a stipend to clean especially in overtime stipend range and I'm not in favor of taking time away from student education become slave labor. There job is to be a student and to become educated. If a parent wants to have their children learn to clean, they can do so at home.

I have a DD that is highly allergic to most cleaning supplies. I wash floors and bathrooms when she will not be in the house for several hours. She cannot use team towels as she is allergic to the soap. Can't use school hand soap either, brought her own. With all the asthmatic students we have in a district we would get sued if any of these kids became ill by the chemicals that went airborne while they were in our charge. Add in the latex allergies, oy. We have to send out warnings and opt outs when we have to use pesticides in the school or fertilizer on the lawns by law.

We will, respectfully, agree, to disagree.

Your daughter is not the norm. I am not a medical professional, and I will not comment on her medical limitations.

However, your job is not just to represent her, but to represent the average person who attends the schools your daughter attends.

And, while I wholly applaud you for doing the former, I am not sure you are doing the latter. I will note, I am not attacking you in any way, shape or form, as I do not know your situation in detail, I am merely commenting.

I am left to wonder, however, if your daughter is so special that she cannot come into contact with chemicals, how can she perform standard experiments in chemistry courses?

What precautions are provided?

The vast majority of children are not special flowers who need special protections, rather they are people...just like you and me, who DO need guidance and skills to succeed in life.

We accomplish nothing by teaching our children that they are stupid.

And that is exactly what we are doing by forcing higher education upon them.

 

[Gabe1]

Titles are worthless without proof of performance.

We both agree that a certain amount of civility is required, but submission is not.

A title is just that, a title. It does not denote submission of authority. However, many think it does.

I do not have a doctorate but I always address someone with the degree as Doctor unless they tell me not to. I follow proper etiquette, to not is a bad reflection on me, not the person I am improperly addressing. I have a great deal of respect for education and have taught that to my children. If they ever started calling one of our principals Mr or Ms instead of Dr they would have seen my wrath. They earned the title through their education. The title is on their diplomas. Even if I don't like them or agree with their stances I would not loose my own credibility by not addressing them as Doctor, again that reflects badly on me, not them.

 

[Gabe1]

We will, respectfully, agree, to disagree.

Your daughter is not the norm. I am not a medical professional, and I will not comment on her medical limitations.

However, your job is not just to represent her, but to represent the average person who attends the schools your daughter attends.

And, while I wholly applaud you for doing the former, I am not sure you are doing the latter. I will note, I am not attacking you in any way, shape or form, as I do not know your situation in detail, I am merely commenting.

I am left to wonder, however, if your daughter is so special that she cannot come into contact with chemicals, how can she perform standard experiments in chemistry courses?

What precautions are provided?

The vast majority of children are not special flowers who need special protections, rather they are people...just like you and me, who DO need guidance and skills to succeed in life.

We accomplish nothing by teaching our children that they are stupid.

And that is exactly what we are doing by forcing higher education upon them.