What's Still On and What's Now Off

[GoofGoof]

Couldn't they use the boarding pass from ROTR for all omnimover-type attractions? Let in one full cycle of guests at a time, clean the full cycle, repeat. So if there's, say, 40 Doom Buggies on Mansion, eighty people are let in, two per buggy, and as they exit all forty are then thoroughly cleaned before another group of eighty get notified they can arrive.

Personally I think the better way to open early would be to only do private parties or some sort. Let super rich people pay to let them and their friends come in and only open small portions of the parks to them. Like, maybe just Main Street, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland or something.

That could work too. They would just need to load the whole chain and then let it go through one pass with guests and then one pass completely empty and then clean the cars as they come back through the unload.

 

[flynnibus]

UV Light has been shown to be effective against CV. I can't imagine something couldn't be built to blitz vehicles quickly with UV light between load and unload.

#detailsMatter yet again

UV-C light - aka the stuff that requires safety protection... the stuff that has its power drop off with the inverse square... the 'effective' requires TIME being exposed to the light.. not just 'blitzed'

 

[MisterPenguin]

What’s off: paychecks for 100k Disney employees, mostly cast members.

Disney to Halt Pay to Some 100,000 Workers Amid Coronavirus Lockdown

Disney will stop sending paychecks to more than 100,000 employees, mainly cast members, in an effort to save cash as the coronavirus lockdown continues.

www.thestreet.com

Isn't that the consequence of what we knew over two weeks ago. You stop paying the people you laid off. Not news at all unless I'm missing something?

 

[monothingie]

#detailsMatter yet again

UV-C light - aka the stuff that requires safety protection... the stuff that has its power drop off with the inverse square... the 'effective' requires TIME being exposed to the light.. not just 'blitzed'

The exposure of germicidal ultraviolet is the product of time and intensity. High intensities for a short period and low intensities for a long period are fundamentally equal in lethal action on germs. The inverse square law applies to germicidal ultraviolet as it does to light: the killing power decreases as the distance from the lamps increases. The average germ will be killed in ten seconds at a distance of six inches from the lamp.

 

[flynnibus]

The exposure of germicidal ultraviolet is the product of time and intensity. High intensities for a short period and low intensities for a long period are fundamentally equal in lethal action on germs. The inverse square law applies to germicidal ultraviolet as it does to light: the killing power decreases as the distance from the lamps increases. The average germ will be killed in ten seconds at a distance of six inches from the lamp.

And even in your c/p research... figure out how you'll get 6" from a surface for 10 seconds.. then do that for all surfaces on an varied item like a ride vehicle... oh and do that for multiple seating positions.. and get it all done in a few ride cycle times.

Nothing about that says 'blitzed' - you can go back in the thread and see where this was discussed before. (Edit: sorry, in the general corona thread - not this one)

This isn't the UV sanitizer at your doorway...

 

[monothingie]

And even in your c/p research... figure out how you'll get 6" from a surface for 10 seconds.. then do that for all surfaces on an varied item like a ride vehicle... oh and do that for multiple seating positions.. and get it all done in a few ride cycle times.

Nothing about that says 'blitzed' - you can go back in the thread and see where this was discussed before. (Edit: sorry, in the general corona thread - not this one)

This isn't the UV sanitizer at your doorway...

Getting to the my C/P research which you yourself googled and concluded was bad just for the purpose of disagreeing with me and not because you have any actual knowledge of it beyond Google. It's actually fairly straightforward to build an enclosure with appropriate UV lighting at an appropriate intensity around omnimover and other vehicles which have a long enough distance between load and unload to achieve sufficient disinfecting. Pirates, Buzz, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain all could be modified in such a way to accommodate this safely.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Isn't that the consequence of what we knew over two weeks ago. You stop paying the people you laid off. Not news at all unless I'm missing something?

I failed to look at the calendar and fell for the clickbait.

 

[VaderTron]

Sorry.. I’m not an expert on any of this. I definitely mixed some of the dates up (I thought it ran its course and was finished August the same year.)

I do know that I never lost my job during h1n1!

I didn’t know there was a vaccine for h1n1! Again I’m learning all this as I go. What I “know” has now changed.

I apologize that I was curt in my reply. I just get frustrated with having to constantly question every statement made in all of these posts. If we all take a few minutes to check our own statements for accuracy we could all benefit from better understanding of the situation rather than infighting. Yes, including me. I will try to hold to my own suggestion.

 

[GladToBeHear]

So many experts in here. Who knew?

 

[VaderTron]

It seems like all you're good at doing is disparaging others whom you disagree with. Your conduct is really very off-putting and tbh sad.

Getting to the my C/P research which you yourself googled and concluded was bad just for the purpose of disagreeing with me and not because you have any actual knowledge of it beyond Google. It's actually fairly straightforward to build an enclosure with appropriate UV lighting at an appropriate intensity around omnimover and other vehicles which have a long enough distance between load and unload to achieve sufficient disinfecting. Pirates, Buzz, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain all could be modified in such a way to accommodate this safely.

While I like the ingenuity, may I present a few potential issues? First, UV-C is the only proven UV ray to have the capability of killing a virus. UV-C rays are extremely dangerous. Much more so than UV-A and UV-B rays, which already cause damage to human tissue. The UV chamber would have to be completely unmanned. How could you retrofit all of the rides with these large, enclosed "sanitation stops" between unloading and loading zones? Ride designers would likely agree that retrofitting rides is the quickest way to increase malfunctions. Having the ride breakdown in the chamber would put repair workers at higher risk, not to mention if the UV-C system were to malfunction and engage while someone was inside servicing the area. Second, the UV-C technology is not cheap if applied to such a large area. How would you ensure the UV rays are get into the crevasses, under the lip of seats, the underside of grip bars and other areas not in direct line of sight between overhead UV bulbs? I do repairs that involve UV curing and a simple towel or umbrella shading an area can prevent natural UV rays from the sun from reacting with and curing the repair. Without mounting UV-C bulbs into ride vehicles I'm not sure how they could ensure the all areas of the ride system where people have touched are fully disinfected. If mounted inside the ride system, then you have the potential hazard of unexpected exposure from bulbs that didn't turn off. We all know malfunctions happen, and it only takes one horror story to spoil the whole idea.

I just don't see how they could do it safely, affordably AND effectively all at the same time.

And to be honest, we still don't have proof it will definitely kill the virus at an effective enough percentage. That's a lot of money/effort to expend for something you hope would work.

 

[flynnibus]

Having the ride breakdown in the chamber would put repair workers at higher risk, not to mention if the UV-C system were to malfunction and engage while someone was inside servicing the area

Easy fix

Second, the UV-C technology is not cheap if applied to such a large area. How would you ensure the UV rays are get into the crevasses, under the lip of seats, the underside of grip bars and other areas not in direct line of sight between overhead UV bulbs?

My hair brained idea is something like a spider dropping onto a ride vehicle that would have appendages that are light rods that would reach into areas to improve the line of sight issues. Then the spider 'rides' with the vehicle, being supported by it.. but I have no mad scientist answer for how to cycle the spiders back to the starting point. Maybe 'over the top' conveyor to carry them back to the start

But none of it fits in the existing structures, etc.

It's something that is interesting, but I just don't think practical.. and where it is, it would have limited uses vs all the attractions Disney needs to cover.

Given Disney's abundance of manpower... I would still bet on CMs climbing in and wiping common surfaces with reduced # of ride vehicles as the most likely scenario.

Imagine spraying a ride seat down... and leaving that seat empty for a cycle... but the time the ride cycles again, that seat could be dry. So if every other vehicle was used... etc. Maybe ideas like that

 

[TrojanUSC]

FOLK, Nemo, U

I still can’t wrap my head around how this is going to work. Other posters have pointed out that this system as designed seems extremely difficult financially. It’s going to be tight. How is Disney going to enforce social distancing? Cast Members. How is Disney going to sanitize rides? Cast Members. How is Disney going to measure guest temperature? Cast Members. Meticulous crowd control will be a necessity and that takes Cast Members. And Cast Members cost lots of money. Obviously, there is a large amount of fat they can cut. Costs will fall thanks to no entertainment, fewer restaurant workers, and fewer lanes open at the turnstiles. Even then the parks will still be labor intensive, and in some areas even more labor intensive than before.



Then you have the logistical hurdles. If virtual queues are a thing, which seems believable, then you have huge numbers of people backing up into the walkways. The lines/attractions are essential crowd control methods. People can fit densely together will queuing or riding attractions. Virtual queues never made sense, because you are still queuing. You WILL be waiting somewhere even if that isn’t in a dense queue. If each guest needs a 6 fit radius around them, how many people can fit? Especially if attractions are running at half or less capacity. That limits the number of people. The crowds we’ve become accustomed to are just not tenable in this social distancing situation.



The 5,000-15,000 they could let in daily hardly justify reopening parks. Suppose Magic Kingdom allows 10,000 people inside the gates. That’s a fraction of the 50+ thousand guests that Disney was inviting in on an average day. Even Walt Disney Studios Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland were outpacing that on an average day pre COVID-19. I’m not exactly sure why this is being planned. It feels like it could drive Walt Disney World further into the red.



A couple ideas are maybe this is about supply chain and retention. If Walt Disney World stays closed too long the reopening costs will continue to mount. It may be better to run at a short-term loss and keep Walt Disney World’s suppliers open. This may be essentially Walt Disney World bailing out its suppliers and contractors. That’s a guess. In a few months when Walt Disney World starts to see a surge in attendance, then Walt Disney World will be able to slowly end social distancing. It could also be that Disney wants investors to know that Walt Disney World is on a path to normalcy. It will look like progress, but not actually be progress. Walt Disney World could also be trying to stop AP cancellations and being forced to extend APs week after week. If an AP expires, it’s awfully hard to get guests to buy a new one if the product is closed. The continuous extensions of APs will also steal AP sales down the road. Finally Disney could start fulfilling APs again.



Everyone expecting massive discounts to “enjoy” this product… I see that as unlikely. No, I would expect Disney is going to need every dollar to make this work. Maybe if it falls flat then discounts would follow.



As for Epcot, I fully expect that it’s closed until the end of the year. Why doesn’t Disney build a 5th gate? Because it steals guests from other parks and increases operating costs if it isn’t filled to the brim. The same is true of reopening Epcot. I’m not hopeful about it.

Many of these ideas seemed like they were dreamed up in corporate brainstorming sessions by people who rarely visit the parks. It's untenable.

Also what happens when there is an outbreak. If a restaurant has an outbreak of Hepatitis, they notify their guests. What happens when a couple CMs test positive at Splash Mountain? Does Disney then have to notify everyone that rode Splash in the x number of days they need to be tested due to an outbreak there? That would be a nightmare to someone's vacation, not to mention the guest would (rightly) feel like their vacation was ruined due to panic and stress.

Many variables here but people thinking its as easy as some masks, a bit of distancing and some temperature scans are in for a rude awakening.

 

[tirian]

I now have multiple corroborating sources that have informed me of some specific things.

1) There is a worst-case scenario plan for WDW that is either developed or under development which prioritizes maintenance for the remainder of 2020 if the parks and resort are unable to reopen. This would see certain areas of the resort under much less upkeep in order to limit costs. This might also see many of the roads closed at WDW to public access.
2) Disney is currently in talks with the NBA to resume the NBA season / postseason with the players finishing all games at the ESPN complex. Details are being negotiated, and could fall through, but players would likely stay at Caribbean Beach Resort with Cayman, Sea Breeze, and Victory Way closed except to NBA and Disney vehicles. The aim would be to restart the NBA in late May to early June. Again, this could fall through, but it is being worked on and I believe some details have already begun to leak.
3) DeSantis has been in communication recently with Disney, Universal, IAAPA, etc, and is keen on getting the parks up and running as soon as safely possible. This is a marked departure from the approach the California government is taking. While Disneyland may remain closed for a long time, there is actually optimism that WDW may be able to reopen during the summer with intense restrictions and limitations.
4) The "Secure Circuit" protocol is still the preferred plan for reopening. Secure Circuit does the following:

• Magic Kingdom reopens with limited capacity, no theaters, no parades, no castle shows, no fireworks and sanitized ride vehicles after every guest exit.
• Magic Kingdom resorts reopen with strict distancing guidelines in place.
• Monorails would not operate.
• Ferries and boat transportation would operate with distancing in place.
• Health checks would be introduced at every security checkpoint. This would include temperature checks and Q&A (including locations you have traveled to in the past 14 days).
• Guests will have to sign additional legal forms clearing Disney of liability for potential exposure to COVID-19.
• EPCOT will remain closed if other parks are able to reopen prior to September.
• Hollywood Studios reopens with limited capacity, no indoor theaters, no parades, no fireworks, and sanitized ride vehicles after every guest exit.
• Animal Kingdom reopens with limited capacity, no indoor theaters, no parades, no Rivers of Light, and sanitized ride vehicles after every guest exit. Maharajah Jungle Trek would remain closed, and no close encounters with any animals at any place in the park will be permitted. Details about Animal Kingdom are still being developed.
• Transportation guidelines are still being developed.
• Dining guidelines are still being developed.
• No character meet and greets.
• No character dining.
• Water parks will not reopen while Secure Circuit is in place.
• DVC details are still being developed.
• Sanitation stations will be available throughout the parks, as well as directions on the ground to keep guests moving in proper directions for limited pedestrian crossing.
• It is likely, though not officially determined, that masks will be a requirement for adults.
• Magic Bands mandatory for all guests, fingerprints temporarily on hold.
• Non-MK resorts are unlikely to reopen until Phase 2 begins (Secure Circuit is for Phase 1).
• Disney is currently evaluating every single ride and queue to determine how and if it can operate with strict distancing guidelines. This includes determining how to move people through the queue in a safe manner even if virtual queue is in place for that particular ride. For example, even just moving through the queue of Pirates exposes guests to whatever guests passed through the queue 20 seconds prior.
• Chapek ultimately makes the call on when to reopen and how, once DeSantis gives the green light... so while the protocols for Secure Circuit have been developed, there may be changes from the top.
• What's on and what's off for future construction is now largely on how much and when Disney receives US government money, as well as the realities of the economy on the other side of this situation. Expect Disney to NOT announce cancellations of projects in 2020, but also for some projects to simply sit with no announcement. Disney is likely to be very bearish in 2020 until we get Q4 economic data.

Best regards - hope everyone is safe.

Years ago, I sat behind a guest who sneezed without covering his mouth on a ride. The ride vehicle kept moving and I felt the wet particles hit my face. That was during the height of swine flu, and even though I knew the likelihood of catching it was low, I was understandably upset.


That didn’t stop me from enjoying theme parks, but my experience does make me question the public’s ability to maintain any rules the resorts put into place. For example, unless Disney hands out N95 masks, that rule is basically a psychological tactic for Covid-19.

 

[FigmentsFangirl]

Be away for 3 days since my last post and miss 5 pages. Can I get a summary post ?

 

[VaderTron]

FOLK, Nemo, U


Many of these ideas seemed like they were dreamed up in corporate brainstorming sessions by people who rarely visit the parks. It's untenable.

Also what happens when there is an outbreak. If a restaurant has an outbreak of Hepatitis, they notify their guests. What happens when a couple CMs test positive at Splash Mountain? Does Disney then have to notify everyone that rode Splash in the x number of days they need to be tested due to an outbreak there? That would be a nightmare to someone's vacation, not to mention the guest would (rightly) feel like their vacation was ruined due to panic and stress.

Many variables here but people thinking its as easy as some masks, a bit of distancing and some temperature scans are in for a rude awakening.

Not sure reality is much of a factor for some. The rude awakening has already manifested itself in several ways worldwide, yet many heads are still neck deep in the sand.

I still believe an opening before fall would be miraculous and would result in another closure.

 

[Joel]

Be away for 3 days since my last post and miss 5 pages. Can I get a summary post ?

People try to predict the future. Most of them will be wrong to varying extents.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Years ago, I sat behind a guest who sneezed without covering his mouth on a ride. The ride vehicle kept moving and I felt the wet particles hit my face. That was during the height of swine flu, and even though I knew the likelihood of catching it was low, I was understandably upset.


That didn’t stop me from enjoying theme parks, but my experience does make me question the public’s ability to maintain any rules the resorts put into place. For example, unless Disney hands out N95 masks, that rule is basically a psychological tactic for Covid-19.

 

[wishiwere@wdw]

Years ago, I sat behind a guest who sneezed without covering his mouth on a ride. The ride vehicle kept moving and I felt the wet particles hit my face. That was during the height of swine flu, and even though I knew the likelihood of catching it was low, I was understandably upset.


That didn’t stop me from enjoying theme parks, but my experience does make me question the public’s ability to maintain any rules the resorts put into place. For example, unless Disney hands out N95 masks, that rule is basically a psychological tactic for Covid-19.

Well said. Back when Universal started the mandatory lockers on rides like Hulk and Rocket, I often was amused at how it basically looked like one giant social experiment while waiting in the queue. Nobody knew what to do without their phones!

I have to wonder if this will also be like a social experiment but in a different way. Basically, could the guests of a certain/proper mindset outweigh the morons and rule by mob mentality? While online shaming, which we are seeing plenty of now, is mostly pointless, being in the same vicinity and potentially affecting the lives of direct family could change the outcome (no hiding behind the keyboard). There are going to be a lot more folks besides Disney looking at how this goes as it will create great study for so many other circumstances and demonstrate how our behaviors will adapt. Both good and bad lol

 

[CastAStone]

Be away for 3 days since my last post and miss 5 pages. Can I get a summary post ?

Disney has some contingency plans.

The ones that open the park during corona time are suboptimal.

They’re probably also the best they can do.

It is unclear if they will ever be executed.

 

[icc2515]

Basically, could the guests of a certain/proper mindset outweigh the morons and rule by mob mentality?

Very rarely do people bring others up to their model of thinking/actions, usually it's the other way around and the morons bring the others down to their level.