What's Still On and What's Now Off

[doctornick]

Still hoping we get quite a few River Country easter eggs in Reflections. Or at least have one of the pools be a recreation of Upstream Plunge.

Yeah, it seems like a no brainer to me to base the water recreation on homages to River Country. You'd probably sell at least a few DVC points just on the basis of nostalgia alone.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Yeah, it seems like a no brainer to me to base the water recreation on homages to River Country. You'd probably sell at least a few DVC points just on the basis of nostalgia alone.

Honestly, what kept them from going full-out Disney's River Country Resort?

 

[Disney Maddux]

Honestly, what kept them from going full-out Disney's River Country Resort?

And my question, why didn't they just turn it from a "water park" to Disney's Fort Wilderness - River Country Pool? More so, why did they even abandon it?

 

[Imagineer45]

And my question, why didn't they just turn it from a "water park" to Disney's Fort Wilderness - River Country Pool? More so, why did they even abandon it?

It had been sitting there abandoned for almost two decades. Water is very damaging over time, so a complete teardown and new structure would likely cost just as much as a restoration/refurbishment. Knowing Disney, I am sure they will put some easter eggs around the new resort.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Why are people more excited about Easter eggs of a defunct and failed water park than the new build. Will there be Hidden Amoebae?

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Why are people more excited about Easter eggs of a defunct and failed water park than the new build. Will there be Hidden Amoebae?

Because what they're building isn't exciting!

 

[aladdin2007]

Honestly, what kept them from going full-out Disney's River Country Resort?

that would/could have been so cool,,,but no instead we get something that looks like an upscale apartment building that belongs in a city downtown, not to mention a name that sounds like a retirement community.

 

[bpiper]

If Reflections was strictly DVC like Riviera then I could see DVC pushing ahead because they can manipulate sales with incentives to push Riviera faster or slower as desired. But Reflections also has the hotel side that I believe is still the majority of rooms. They're currently needing to reconsider demand for deluxe hotels. There's so much uncertainty that any decision one way or the other would be a hunch. It's unlikely anyone is going to the Bobs with "We believe the demand will still be there but we really don't know."

True, they can manipulate sales rates with incentives, but why should they? That will give them less money and they need money right now. I think they mainly use the incentives to seamlessly line up the closeout of the current hotel's sales with the opening of the new one. I think the only way you will see incentives on the Riviera is if sales in general crater.

Was there any info on the number of non-DVC vs DVC rooms at Reflections? Another point is that until units are declared into DVC inventory, Disney just sells them into cash night reservations. So, when the hotel first opens, probably over 95% of the rooms are nightly cash reservations. Can the economy support this in 2 years? Who knows.

 

[bpiper]

They’ve done a tiny bit more than that

Column support footers are visible in Bios' pictures for one wing.

 

[BisonLion]

Balfour Beatty is also the contractor on Ratatouille and Ice Breaker. Owner-Contractor agreements have provisions for the owner to unilaterally suspend the work.

for a cost typically. Usually contracts like that have a "fee" associated with breaking the contract. It usually covers some sort of lost overhead/expenses due to having work in backlog and then removed, along with costs associated with removal of temporary office space, people, equipment, etc. So you then have to balance is the cancellation fee and then the associated costs to restart the project, out weigh the costs to simply move forward. My company does a lot of work at WDW and we have been more willing to "help" out and put stuff on hold simply because we don't want to ruin the relationship. We also have a lot of local presence so we don't have as much fixed cost/cost to leave the site. We also have several projects there and have one office that supports them, so as long as we have at least one thing going on, we can justify that cost some. The bigger fear would be them canceling the contracts, versus delaying the contract.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Perhaps. A lot are opening, however- Outback, Carrabba’s, Longhorn, Olive Garden, Bahama Breeze, Red Lobster, Applebee’s, Huey Luey’s, Buffalo’s, some Ippolito’s, Del Frisco Double Eagle Steakhouse, Del Frisco Grille, Joe’s Crab Shack, Morton's The Steakhouse, McCormick & Schmick’s and The Oceanaire Seafood Room and that’s just the number of reasonably we’ll known local chains. A lot of mom & pop places have also opened or are opening soon.

i suspect there’s enough open to make an impact.

I feel bad for you living in the 7th level of chain restaurant hell

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well they already cleared the land. Maybe they could use it for something else, like a new water park for the monorail area resorts!!

Yeah...the popularity of water parks are always greatly exaggerated though...

They’ve done a tiny bit more than that

Really interesting to see what they do there...
I didn’t see this robust market for more $40,000 DVC contracts or $600 a night rooms at that spot...and that was 6 months ago when all the armchair economists where convinced that there would never be a recession again ....the 2012 mitt Romney theory.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Apparently the construction company hired for Reflections is holding Disney to their contract. I think it's Balfour Beatty, and it's something I should dig into a bit. Disney wants to hold all new construction, that site isn't vertical... I'll see what I can find out. If anyone else has info, feel free to share.

There will be some point in the progress where they could negotiate a pause...a benchmark or something.

Disney also typically doesn’t lose in court on these types of matters. Write-offs also are “good for business” in many instances.

 

[Rich Brownn]

And my question, why didn't they just turn it from a "water park" to Disney's Fort Wilderness - River Country Pool? More so, why did they even abandon it?

Because it was designed to use non filtered lake water, it was no longer usable for guests.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because it was designed to use non filtered lake water, it was no longer usable for guests.

They also didn’t nor do need the extra ops cost of a third waterpark. That isn’t where the money is made.

 

[nickys]

True, they can manipulate sales rates with incentives, but why should they? That will give them less money and they need money right now. I think they mainly use the incentives to seamlessly line up the closeout of the current hotel's sales with the opening of the new one. I think the only way you will see incentives on the Riviera is if sales in general crater.

Was there any info on the number of non-DVC vs DVC rooms at Reflections? Another point is that until units are declared into DVC inventory, Disney just sells them into cash night reservations. So, when the hotel first opens, probably over 95% of the rooms are nightly cash reservations. Can the economy support this in 2 years? Who knows.

IIRC it was 50/50. I think both sides were getting the cabins by the water too.

 

[Surferboy567]

Very dumb question but it’s something I’ve been thinking about.

Is their a point where there are “too many” hotels?

Why use precious capital on a hotel complex (especially now) rather then the actual parks people take a vacation for?

Is it part of a DVC contract?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Very dumb question but it’s something I’ve been thinking about.

Is their a point where there are “too many” hotels? Why use precious capital on a hotel complex rather then the actual parks people take a vacation for?

Is it part of a DVC contract?

I think you’re looking at it the exact opposite Disney does...

Rides don’t make money...or at least extra rides don’t. They invest in those only to make more people come and fill those “extra” hotels.

They won’t stop building DVC until people stop buying it at higher and higher prices...it’s a no brainer for Disney to sell if they don’t really have to work for it...which they haven’t had to for a long time.

 

[Surferboy567]

I think you’re looking at it the exact opposite Disney does...

Rides don’t make money...or at least extra rides don’t. They invest in those only to make more people come and fill those “extra” hotels.

They won’t stop building DVC until people stop buying it at higher and higher prices...it’s a no brainer for Disney to sell if they don’t really have to work for it...which they haven’t had to for a long time.

I understand that...but doesn’t building more attractions drive further attendance. Leading to more guest spending and revenues?

For example- Animal Kingdom pre and post Pandora

Same with HWS

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I understand that...but doesn’t building more attractions drive further attendance. Leading to more guest spending and revenues?

For example- Animal Kingdom pre and post Pandora

Same with HWS

The traditional theory/model was “yes...new stuff brings new blood”...

But something noticeably weird happened on Iger trip to the bank. They now equate “growth” with having nothing really to do with amusement park experiences...only exposure to their IP.

It wasn’t Eisner - because he always gets blamed - until his late tenure Struggles with out of control budgets...he “overbuilt” to get ahead of attendance and comfortably grow.

Not bob...who cares only for the content and does minimal new installs. Ever wonder why they open new “lands” with two swamped rides that don’t provide much time of enjoyment in the day?

It’s not about the physical experience under the current management philosophy...rides don’t really matter except for an IP platform.

So to answer your question: I don’t think this management believes new rides = new people anymore. It’s inline with blue ocean theory that Iger certainly seems to adhere to...