What would you change about the new Fantasyland?

[lebeau]

First of all, this is a very good post!

Glad you liked it. I always enjoy your posts even though we disagree on this.

Oh, I' not denying there are a lot of princess fans. But the fact that this expansion only appeals to Princess fans is a mistake. There's plenty of families without princess fans, not to mention long time guests are getting tired of the cartoonification of the MK, and I really think there's a huge risk of rubbing a lot of people the wrong way..

Well, Dumbo is part of the expansion. So I wouldn't say it only appeals to princess fans. To some extent, that's true of any theme. Will WWoHP only appeal to HP fans? I couldn't give a whif about Harry Potter, but I can't wait to check it out.

I really, really doubt this. DAK failed to get people to stay longer, I doubt a gaggle of meet and greets will succeed where another park failed.

I didn't mean to imply they'd extend their vacations. That's silly. But I think they will spend more time in the parks on their visits. There's simply going to be more for these families to do.

Yea, and I see plenty of people being suckered in and complaining when they wait an hour each for story time, card making, and the Cinerella thing(I actually think Cindy is the only worthwhile one being built, but I still don't see people being happy).

It really depends on the execution. I'm skeptical. But I think it will be satisfying. On our next trip, I'm paying $120 to eat breakfast in Cinderella's castle. (And the baby is free, thank goodness!) It was a pain to even get the reservation. I expect the food to be mediocre and the entire experience to be rushed. Compared to that, I think card making with Aurora will be all right. At least my wallet will approve.

And let's face the fact that MK has been around for 40 years, most as the most visited park in the world, without making "attractions" out of meet and greets.

Times and demand change. I maintain that Disney is only giving people what they are asking for. The fact that people are lining up for it backs up my theory.

I remember when the characters roamed freely. But the parks have changed in a lot of ways since then. Now, roaming characters would be mobbed.

On our last trip, we were sitting on a bench as a bunch of characters walked offstage after meet'n'greets. It was a hot day and I'm sure they were all tired. But they stayed in character and tried to keep moving towards their exit. Poor Snow White. I didn't think she was ever going to make it. Even with her handler announcing she would be appearing in Fantasmic! laster that night. She was at least 15 minuted behind everyone else thanks to the mob.

And guess what? You can already meet all these characters at the MK! If the demand wasn't being met, the line for said meet and greets would be 3 hours long and out the door of the Toontown tent. It's not. I just don't agree that the need for M&Gs isn't being met.

The lines for the meet and greets are pretty darn long!

At our local amusement park, you can see Spongebob Squarepants, Scooby Doo or Dora the Explorer with no wait whatsover. I've never seen a line of more than 10 kids and that is rare. But at Disney, you'll wait up to an hour. (I hear the lines for Tink are especially bad.)

I've been in line for character meet and greets where we didn't even get to meet the character. They sent the characters off on their breaks and told people to line up again in 20 minutes. And you know what? People did!

Also, remember that the meet and greets in Toontown are going away. So, the one place where you can count on meeting the princesses without a 180-day reservation is going away. In the place of meet and greets in tents everyone complained about for years, you're getting meet and greets in a fabulously themed area + a major dark ride. Where's the downside again?

 

[lebeau]

I totally agree. It used to be that way, that you would just see a character and go up to him/her.
I dislike the whole m&g situation.


That's a good idea. PH is just going to be a glorified m&g anyhow, so why not throw Peter into the mix?[/QUOTE]

Exactly make it big enough for Tink, Peter, Captin Hook, Smee Wendy ect...

I figure this is likely to happen eventually anyway. Epsecially if Disney ever gives up on the Fairies concept.

 

[SirGoofy]

Well, Dumbo is part of the expansion. So I wouldn't say it only appeals to princess fans. To some extent, that's true of any theme. Will WWoHP only appeal to HP fans? I couldn't give a whif about Harry Potter, but I can't wait to check it out.

I was more talking about the new additions, although I do think Dumbo will be neat.

I'm glad you brought up HP. The difference is HP has the appeal of having one of (if not THE) the best themed attractions ever built by man. Forbidden Journey will attract Potter fans and ride fans alike. Now, I think Uni will drop the ball in marketing, as they always do, but still. If FLE had a technoligical masterpiece or a great, family friendly(ala Splash or Big Thunder) thrill ride paired with it, it really would have been great.

I didn't mean to imply they'd extend their vacations. That's silly. But I think they will spend more time in the parks on their visits. There's simply going to be more for these families to do.

Ah, I got it.:wave:

It really depends on the execution. I'm skeptical. But I think it will be satisfying. On our next trip, I'm paying $120 to eat breakfast in Cinderella's castle. (And the baby is free, thank goodness!) It was a pain to even get the reservation. I expect the food to be mediocre and the entire experience to be rushed. Compared to that, I think card making with Aurora will be all right. At least my wallet will approve.

Actually, I ate at CRT on New Years Eve. I enjoyed my meal greatly! I reccommend either the Salon or the Prime Rib.

The lines for the meet and greets are pretty darn long!

I'm not denying that M&Gs aren't popular. They are. What I' saying is that it's a big mistake to make them the focus of a $500 million expansion. They could have kept the same M&G structure and added at least one more big ticket to go along with Mermaid, which is what I think the park desperately needs.

Also, remember that the meet and greets in Toontown are going away. So, the one place where you can count on meeting the princesses without a 180-day reservation is going away. In the place of meet and greets in tents everyone complained about for years, you're getting meet and greets in a fabulously themed area + a major dark ride. Where's the downside again?

Like I said, they could have moved the M&Gs to a new themed part of the new expansion, while still giving the park another big attraction.

 

[Lee]

Where's the downside again?

The downside is that those of us:
a) With no kids
and
b) With no interest in meeting characters

Have been waiting a LONG time for something new and exciting to come to the MK. (Long time meaning since Splash Mountain.)
This ain't it.

Mermaid will be ok. The restaurant (so long as it's a normal one and not totally character meal focused) will be nice.

Otherwise.....:shrug:

Seriously. Spending between $300-$500 million and only getting one new ride? I just don't understand that.

 

[lebeau]

I was more talking about the new additions, although I do think Dumbo will be neat.

I'm glad you brought up HP. The difference is HP has the appeal of having one of (if not THE) the best themed attractions ever built by man. Forbidden Journey will attract Potter fans and ride fans alike. Now, I think Uni will drop the ball in marketing, as they always do, but still. If FLE had a technoligical masterpiece or a great, family friendly(ala Splash or Big Thunder) thrill ride paired with it, it really would have been great.

I would have preferred that as well. But I still see this as a big improvement. And TLM will be a big draw. I think it's a much bigger deal than the meet and greets everyone is focused on. In my mind, we're still just trading M&Gs under a tent for M&Gs in themed environments with stuff to do while you wait in line.

Oh, plus we're getting a much-needed sit-down restaurant which promises to be cool.

Actually, I ate at CRT on New Years Eve. I enjoyed my meal greatly! I reccommend either the Salon or the Prime Rib.

We'll be there for breakfast. $120 gets me the usual breakfast fare, a plastic wand and a picture I don't want. But the princesses will all be there in one spot with no lines. So it's worth it (I hope).

I'm not denying that M&Gs aren't popular. They are. What I' saying is that it's a big mistake to make them the focus of a $500 million expansion. They could have kept the same M&G structure and added at least one more big ticket to go along with Mermaid, which is what I think the park desperately needs.

Like I said, they could have moved the M&Gs to a new themed part of the new expansion, while still giving the park another big attraction.

Yeah, I'd prefer more attractions. If I didn't have two daughters, the princesses wouldn't appeal to me at all. But I'd still go check out TLM and Be Our Guest. And that's where the money's going.

Is it a big mistake? I can't see how. Okay, it won't appeal equally to everyone. But it will appeal immensely to a lot of people. It's going to accomplish everything Disney is looking to accomplish. Unless they drop the ball on execution, I think this is going to be very successful.

 

[fyn]

I totally agree. It used to be that way, that you would just see a character and go up to him/her.
I dislike the whole m&g situation.

I dislike it as well, but I can see the reason for it. Over the years I've witnessed more than a few bad situations where characters and handlers have gotten overwhelmed by (sometimes aggressive) guests. A m&g with a planned queue eliminates most of those situations. It's not an ideal solution, but it is a solution.

 

[lebeau]

The downside is that those of us:
a) With no kids
and
b) With no interest in meeting characters

Have been waiting a LONG time for something new and exciting to come to the MK. (Long time meaning since Splash Mountain.)
This ain't it.

Mermaid will be ok. The restaurant (so long as it's a normal one and not totally character meal focused) will be nice.

Otherwise.....:shrug:

Seriously. Spending between $300-$500 million and only getting one new ride? I just don't understand that.

The only thing you're losing is Toontown which presumably didn't interest you in the first place.

I agree, it would be nice to see Disney spend some money on an attraction in the MK that was aimed at an older demographic. But they are doing that in the 3 other parks.

Trading Toontown for TLM, Be Our Guest and better themed meet and greets seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Sorry you weren't the target demo for FL. But there will be other stuff that may appeal to you more.

If it makes you feel any better, it's been a while since they added anything that appealed to my 4-year-old. (She thought TSM was okay but wouldn't wear the 3-D glasses. Same with Mickey's Philharmagic. Beyond that... :shrug.

 

[SirGoofy]

But they are doing that in the 3 other parks.

This is what truly worries me about what's been going on at MK for the past 10-15 years. Every new experience sees to be aimed at the 3-10 crowd. It's supposed to be a park where everyone can enjoy themselves and it seems like they're really getting away from that.

I think this is going to be very successful.

We'll agree to disagree then. I will say this, I don't think I'll even experience it anytime soon, unless I get the job I want at WDW. If that doesn't happen, I'll make my trip for Star Tours, and then will be visiting the other pars across the world before returning to WDW, unless they do something to earn my oney.

 

[Lee]

The only thing you're losing is Toontown which presumably didn't interest you in the first place.

I agree, it would be nice to see Disney spend some money on an attraction in the MK that was aimed at an older demographic. But they are doing that in the 3 other parks.

Yeah. That's a problem. I don't want to have to give up on MK due to it's transforming into some sort of "Kid's Kingdom." There needs to be a better mix of new things. Philharmagic, Pooh, Stitch, MILF, the Stitch show...the list of kid focused new attractions is long. The broader-appeal attractions....haven't seen a new one since Splash.

Trading Toontown for TLM, Be Our Guest and better themed meet and greets seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Yes. But not for that price. For that many millions I would expect more.

 

[lebeau]

Yeah. That's a problem. I don't want to have to give up on MK due to it's transforming into some sort of "Kid's Kingdom." There needs to be a better mix of new things. Philharmagic, Pooh, Stitch, MILF, the Stitch show...the list of kid focused new attractions is long. The broader-appeal attractions....haven't seen a new one since Splash.


Yes. But not for that price. For that many millions I would expect more.

I agree that I would hate to see MK turn into a kids-only park. It's a valid concern. Honestly, when my wife and I went before we had any kids, MK was her least favorite park for precisely that reason. Even with kids, she doesn't like MK very much.

I can see your point on some of the previous changes. Toad for Pooh and Timkeeper for MILF in particular. (Although I can see the need to get ride of the alien - sorry AE fans.) But in this case you're trading kiddie trash for something better even if it is still primarily aimed at kiddies.

(And hey, we're talking FL here. Toons and kiddie stuff is expected.)

Maybe I should be more concerned about the price tag. I know costs will be passed on to the consumer and all that. But I tend to let Disney worry about whether or not their decisions make financial sense.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

I remember when the characters roamed freely. But the parks have changed in a lot of ways since then. Now, roaming characters would be mobbed.

Exactly. That's the kind of thing that people like Lee have obviously yet to realize and need to get used to.

Structured meet-and-greets are basically here to stay. Free-roaming characters are already pretty much a thing of the past for the reasons Lebeau stated.

Yes, it would be nice if they could find a way to let them run around and play, dance, etc. without getting mobbed sometimes, but either way, it's for the best that they have attendants looking after them every step of the way to protect them.

So, Lee, if you REALLY want to go to a Disney park that still has mostly free-roaming meet-and-greet characters, go to Tokyo Disney.

Slightly OT, too many Disney elitists get extremely annoying with their "everything has to be an E-ticket" mentality, which they need to drop from their mentalities because it's a major causes of their blatant close-mindedness.

I agree that I would hate to see MK turn into a kids-only park. It's a valid concern.

And the MK NEVER going to become a kids-only park, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Also, Lee, you may hate Pooh, PhilharMagic, Stitch, MILF, etc., but those attractions DO have broad appeal and are enjoyed by adults and kids alike. So, quit the hate and discrimination, please.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Lee, your points on the expansion are well taken, but I do feel that Mickey's PhilharMagic has been an addition that appeals to more than just kids. The Princess Meet and Greets definitely do not (or at least not adult males).

I agree that this addition is lacking in substance for many fanboys, but I think quite a few people in that fanboy demographic (Adult Males) would avoid Fantasyland in many instances anyways. I do feel that this type of expansion was needed, I just recognize that I was not the target audience for it, and that annoys me - purely for selfish reasons.

I'm also not a big Star Wars/Tours fan, and while I anticipate the changes, I'm far more excited about The Wizarding World of Harry Potter than I am for the new Fantasyland or Star Tours 2.0

 

[_Scar]

I don't get why people think there are now rides in EPCOT:brick:

1.SSE
2.Nemo
3. LWTL
4.SOarin
5. JII
6. TT
7. MS
8. UOE
9. GFT
10. Malestrom

And only 3 of those are major, modern attractions :lookaroun

 

[Lee]

Lee, your points on the expansion are well taken, but I do feel that Mickey's PhilharMagic has been an addition that appeals to more than just kids.

Ok...I'll give you PhilharMagic. If you can wade throught the sea of strollers to get to it...it's very nice for most ages.
Everything else that has been added in the last several years.....kid stuff.
(I forgot to add the pirate show, the Bippity Boutiquie, the Pirate League...etc.)

 

[_Scar]

Yeah. That's a problem. I don't want to have to give up on MK due to it's transforming into some sort of "Kid's Kingdom." There needs to be a better mix of new things. Philharmagic, Pooh, Stitch, MILF, the Stitch show...the list of kid focused new attractions is long. The broader-appeal attractions....haven't seen a new one since Splash.


Yes. But not for that price. For that many millions I would expect more.

Not including PhilharMagic, I think the bolded also target many adults too.

Many people grew up with The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh original movie, and I bet kids don't even know what a Heffalump or Woozle is. (well- maybe the heffalump...) Or the other shorts incorporated in the attraction. When's the last time the original movie with all of its segments was released on DVD? Has it ever? It's like Splash Mountain except on a much smaller level- adults know exactly what's going on, kids think it's a brand new experience- mostly. All Fantasyland rides are for the young and young at heart.

MILF sorta targets everyone. There's always a few kids featured in the show and "that guy". With the encouragement of text messaging your own jokes and some jokes that may go right over children's heads I'd say this one is for anybody in the mood for a corny comedy club.

 

[Figment632]

And only 3 of those are major, modern attractions :lookaroun

Only major moder attractions.

MK:
1. Splash Mountain
2. BTM

DAK:
1. KS
2. DIno
3. EE
4. KRR

MGM

1. TOT
2. RnRC
3. TSMM

ALso

I would call SSE, UOE, and LWTL major attractions.

 

[_Scar]

Only major moder attractions.

MK:
1. Splash Mountain
2. BTM
3. Philharmagic
4. Haunted Mansion
5. Hall of Presidents
6. Pirates of the Caribbean


DAK:
1. KS
2. DIno
3. EE
4. KRR
5. FotLK
6. FN:TM
7. ITTBAB

Basically every attraction in the park is relatively new and modern...

MGM

1. TOT
2. RnRC
3. TSMM
4. LMA
5. American Idol
6. Soon-to-be Star Tours 2

ALso

I would call SSE, UOE, and LWTL major attractions

What's modern about those? Many of the effects are outdated in UoE and SSE...

 

[Figment632]

What's modern about those? Many of the effects are outdated in UoE and SSE...

SSE had a major refurb in 07 and just bacuse something isn't Modern doesn't make it to be less of a scale. EPcot has more qualtity E-tickets than any other park.

 

[Figment632]

Philharmagic
4. Haunted Mansion
5. Hall of Presidents
6. Pirates of the Caribbean


DAK:
1. KS
2. DIno
3. EE
4. KRR
5. FotLK
6. FN:TM
7. ITTBAB

Basically every attraction in the park is relatively new and modern...

MGM

1. TOT
2. RnRC
3. TSMM
4. LMA
5. American Idol
6. Soon-to-be Star Tours 2

To your standards there is nothing modern to POTC, HM any of the DAK stuff you added.

LMA is a show so if we are including thos EC has AA the biggest show Disney has ever done.

There is nothing major about Philhar it is a C-ticket, AI is also a C-ticket,

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

SSE had a major refurb in 07 and just bacuse something isn't Modern doesn't make it to be less of a scale. EPcot has more qualtity E-tickets than any other park.

Had.:zipit: