What will it take to stop you from going to WDW?

[Pepper's Ghost]

It is wonderful that you are a superior planner. That is a handy talent. However, it is only handy if you know that it is needed to simply go to a theme park. I was fortunate that I made my first WDW encounter in 1983. It would never have occurred to me that it would require so much complication to ride an amusement park ride. Or that I should even have to research it.

It is extremely possible that a first timer might be familiar with the name WDW but not the cluster it currently is. They might not know that it is more work now go to a place that is thought of as a fun place then actually working for a living. Yes, the price is high, but likely not indicative of the degree of planning that is involved. And that every time they make a move it involves someone's hand reaching in their pocket and removing more and more money.

I went to Europe for a month long adventure (I won't say vacation because it was anything but relaxing) but it involved less complicated planning than a trip to a fantasy theme park. It is not always a matter of being good at planning as it is having the knowledge that planning might be required.

Agree went in the 70's and 80's never required planning but each subsequent decade it took more and more planning to where we are now.

Hear! Hear! It's gotten so ri-gosh-darn-diculous regarding excessive planning. I run the operations for a construction company, planning different phases of projects, etc. It's still not as complicated as planning a Disney vacation, seriously. It's pretty straight-forward actually, and no FOMO. You just schedule, move forward, and adjust as needed. Trying to fit all the pieces together for a Disney vacation is effing ridiculous. 15 years ago it was planning for airline tickets, hotel, park tickets, and maybe some restaurant reservations if desired. You were way ahead of the game if you mapped out what parks on which days to take advantage of Extra Magic Hours. Now it's like mapping out the plan to run for president with every literal footstep planned out months in advance. In addition to the above, you have to somehow make sure that park reservations fit just right. It's not a matter of just booking park reservations. It's making sure you can get them for the days you want to be there. Then add in Genie+ and reserving rides the morning of days at whatever parks. It's just too much.

The comparison that it requires lots of planning to visit other countries shouldn't apply unless you're visiting WDW from another country. Why should going on a domestic vacation to what used to be a fun place require so much intricate planning? Planning, of course, but to this level?? You should be able to book the tickets, airfare, hotels, and then go have fun like almost any other vacation. Not have to study for a PhD and plan excessively in hopes of possibly doing a fraction of what used to be possible in the past. Even while on vacation you can't have fun. Wake up early to get those ride reservations... hopefully. Then stare at your phone all day and carry a portable phone charger in hopes of booking other rides... hopefully. If you choose not to do any of these things, instead of experiencing 80% of what used to be possible, you experience 40% of what you used to be able to do, and for outrageously more $$. It's only a matter of time before all the Jane and John Does who remembered their WDW vacation from yesteryear and want to take one with their kids realize how complicated it is and attendance plummets. It will be a a couple/few years, but Disney will pay the price for their actions and greed of today.

 

[WishIWasRetired]

But that's pretty much everything where. When I first flew, I went to laquardia my dad walked me up to the gate , handed the gate agent ticket got on. Often times got there maybe 30 minutes prior. Now air travel requires planning.
Went to Iceland last month, getting covid testing itself required some planning. I know it's not exactly the same but my question is, in today's tech savvy and Google slap happy world. There are still first timer that roll up to Disney unawares?? Heck in most major destinations you still need a dinner reservation to get seated yet people don't know this??

At least you didn't have to wake up early and log into an app to try to get the flight you want and hope the time of the flight works for you

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

At least you didn't have to wake up early and log into an app to try to get the flight you want and hope the time of the flight works for you

Yep. It seems to be a lot of guessing, hoping, and still not any assurance being able to do things. I have no desire to spend a vacation that way. If nowhere else, Universal is my vacation spot for the immediate future until Disney takes the pain out of the vacation to their parks. Again, I realize not everyone has the same experience. Some people don't even go on rides and just walk the parks and have a fantastic time. That's fantastic, sincerely. Enjoy the people watching while you have it because I truly believe without changes and fast, the parks will be a lot roomier.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Yep. It seems to be a lot of guessing, hoping, and still not any assurance being able to do things. I have no desire to spend a vacation that way. If nowhere else, Universal is my vacation spot for the immediate future until Disney takes the pain out of the vacation to their parks. Again, I realize not everyone has the same experience. Some people don't even go on rides and just walk the parks and have a fantastic time. That's fantastic, sincerely. Enjoy the people watching while you have it because I truly believe without changes and fast, the parks will be a lot roomier.

Just returned from our first family trip to Universal Orlando. Six days, four in the theme parks. Two days at Volcano Bay using early entry/private entrance from Cabana Bay. Used APs with Express Pass after 4p and saw everything we wanted to without ridiculous waits or planning of any sort, even during a ridiculously crowded time of year. Walked right up to a great nighttime parade viewing spot a half hour beforehand our first night there. We had an absolute blast and found plenty of dining options in the parks and at our hotel with no mobile ordering needed. Service was friendly and efficient throughout. The food was good and reasonably priced. No park reservations, no ridiculous upsells and no hyper planning. Used their mobile app to check wait times periodically and set a couple of alerts but other than that the phone stayed in the pocket the vast majority of the time.

All in all the vibe there was very reminiscent of our WDW visits during the 90s and early 2000s. Ironically the only anxiety we felt was the feeling that we were too relaxed (if that makes any sense). Chalk up a big win in Universal’s column as far as this former Disney diehard family is concerned. Universal’s not perfect by any means but they gave us a great family vacation full of spontaneous fun and *value* for the price paid.

Your move Disney. Time to step up because you’ve got big problems at home and some serious competition up the road.

 

[NelleBelle]

Totally agree that planning is now required for most vacations anywhere! For example, it's next to impossible to find any open camping sites in the PNW without making reservations 6-mo in advance. So taking our airstream out in the spring/summer requires ridiculous amount of planning if we want to be in a state campground that has partial hookups. We had to book last month for a camping trip 2-hrs north of Seattle to find 2-adjacent spots in August for my mom's b-day. Gone are the days when you can just pull into a campground/RV park and expect to find any vacant spots. Now you need to now how far you're going to travel in one day, where you're going to stop for the night, how long you're going to be there, and so on and so on.

 

[NickMaio]

Just returned from our first family trip to Universal Orlando. Six days, four in the theme parks. Two days at Volcano Bay using early entry/private entrance from Cabana Bay. Used APs with Express Pass after 4p and saw everything we wanted to without ridiculous waits or planning of any sort, even during a ridiculously crowded time of year. Walked right up to a great nighttime parade viewing spot a half hour beforehand our first night there. We had an absolute blast and found plenty of dining options in the parks and at our hotel with no mobile ordering needed. Service was friendly and efficient throughout. The food was good and reasonably priced. No park reservations, no ridiculous upsells and no hyper planning. Used their mobile app to check wait times periodically and set a couple of alerts but other than that the phone stayed in the pocket the vast majority of the time.

All in all the vibe there was very reminiscent of our WDW visits during the 90s and early 2000s. Ironically the only anxiety we felt was the feeling that we were too relaxed (if that makes any sense). Chalk up a big win in Universal’s column as far as this former Disney diehard family is concerned. Universal’s not perfect by any means but they gave us a great family vacation full of spontaneous fun and *value* for the price paid.

Your move Disney. Time to step up because you’ve got big problems at home and some serious competition up the road.

You nailed it.....WDW has completly killed any spontaneity in a WDW vacation.
It's crazy

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Totally agree that planning is now required for most vacations anywhere! For example, it's next to impossible to find any open camping sites in the PNW without making reservations 6-mo in advance. So taking our airstream out in the spring/summer requires ridiculous amount of planning if we want to be in a state campground that has partial hookups. We had to book last month for a camping trip 2-hrs north of Seattle to find 2-adjacent spots in August for my mom's b-day. Gone are the days when you can just pull into a campground/RV park and expect to find any vacant spots. Now you need to now how far you're going to travel in one day, where you're going to stop for the night, how long you're going to be there, and so on and so on.

I can't pretend to know anything about camping sites or those types of vacations. The next time I take one will be the first. What you described seems to be a timing thing due to recent popularity. You need to book enough in advance. It kills spontaneity just like Disney has done, but is it a super complicated process that you need to download an app, wake up at 7am each morning to book water hookup or whatnot? Do you have to constantly stare at your phone to book other hookups? I know that's not how it works. Just wondering if it's really as complicated, or is it just the popularity that is causing long-in-advance reservations that were never needed before?

 

[NelleBelle]

I can't pretend to know anything about camping sites or those types of vacations. The next time I take one will be the first. What you described seems to be a timing thing due to recent popularity. You need to book enough in advance. It kills spontaneity just like Disney has done, but is it a super complicated process that you need to download an app, wake up at 7am each morning to book water hookup or whatnot? Do you have to constantly stare at your phone to book other hookups? I know that's not how it works. Just wondering if it's really as complicated, or is it just the popularity that is causing long-in-advance reservations that were never needed before?

If you want to try and get a coveting campsite in a particular national park, yes, you have to be up at a certain time of day on a certain date to try and get a lottery drawing for a campsite. I've tried for years to get into Yosemite and have failed. And there just aren't great places to stay outside the national park either. Same for Yellowstone. And quite a few of the campgrounds in Key West. It was this way even prior to the pandemic when everyone thought they needed to go buy an RV.

I actually feel I plan more for our RV trips of 2-weeks than our 2-weeks at WDW, even now. But I do understand that there is a lot of planning involved for WDW.

 

[NickMaio]

It's not just the immense planning to get TO WDW, but the incessant planning whe years there.
I miss the years of going to get a paper fast pass.
Before the app.....it was much simpler, and we aways ended up getting more rides in.
Today it's a gong show of heads down and thumbs flicking away.
Our last trip we even saw people doing this on their phones, on the RIDES. C'mon why did you even come to WDW, to bury your head on a ride?
Its just got worse..........

 

[Goofyernmost]

I miss the days when there was no Fastpass at all. The lines looked long but they were constantly moving and we got to the ride quickly. No long pauses watching other people cutting in front.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

It's not just the immense planning to get TO WDW, but the incessant planning whe years there.
I miss the years of going to get a paper fast pass.
Before the app.....it was much simpler, and we aways ended up getting more rides in.
Today it's a gong show of heads down and thumbs flicking away.
Our last trip we even saw people doing this on their phones, on the RIDES. C'mon why did you even come to WDW, to bury your head on a ride?
Its just got worse..........

Cell phones are a hot-button item for me in general. Love my phone. It's everything I need and a great convenience, but I can go literally hours without looking at it and not miss it. When I see people constantly living life through their phones, it really triggers me. Look around, people. Interesting stuff is usually all around. Check your phone occassionally, fine. I get it, but having your eyes fixed on it all the time, or subconsciously checking your phone literally every 30 seconds is ridiculous. And now Disney is MAKING you do that in order to "maximize" your experience. Uhhh, no thanks. I still think it's deliberate for two reasons. If your eyes are constantly on your phone, they can sell push advertising, and also if your eyes are on your phone, they don't have to try as hard around the parks in general. People are complaining on condition, cleanliness, etc. That seems to fit my theory.

 

[Ayla]

I miss the days when there was no Fastpass at all. The lines looked long but they were constantly moving and we got to the ride quickly. No long pauses watching other people cutting in front.

I loved my last 2 trips during covid with no version of fastpass.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I loved my last 2 trips during covid with no version of fastpass.

Yes, I agree. I loved all my trips before fastpass was even a thing! We were all equal. We all stood in the lines. We talked to others, people watched, played games with the kids. The lines always moved! I don't understand Why disney had to have a fp in the first place? The everyone equal line for all was a winner IMO. You can go back to no fp and I bet people would love it that way. But, sadly, disney won't change. Just one more reason we won't be back. I'm always hoping that disney will return to great customer service and reverse all the negative changes I've seen, but am doubtful that will ever happen.

 

[NelleBelle]

I loved my last 2 trips during covid with no version of fastpass.

Me too! I met a lovely family behind us (their party was quite large that it was hard to keep the "6-ft distance" between us" and the dad and I had a great time talking about everything we had in common! I can't remember the last time that happened in line. Everyone was much more polite I felt and I honestly didn't see the line jumping either because the queues moved!!!! Can you imagine how low the wait time would be if they opened both sides of SM as stand-by lines?!

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Yes, I agree. I loved all my trips before fastpass was even a thing! We were all equal. We all stood in the lines. We talked to others, people watched, played games with the kids. The lines always moved! I don't understand Why disney had to have a fp in the first place? The everyone equal line for all was a winner IMO. You can go back to no fp and I bet people would love it that way. But, sadly, disney won't change. Just one more reason we won't be back. I'm always hoping that disney will return to great customer service and reverse all the negative changes I've seen, but am doubtful that will ever happen.

While I agree with everything you said, there are very clear reasons why they will never return to pre-FP times. They want their $$s. Genie+ and LL, skip-the-line, whatever you want to call it is now a revenue generator. For that, they will never change. This gets back to my complaining in several previous posts about nickle and diming. I'd much rather they raise the ticket prices up front, generate their desired revenue, and eliminate Genie+ and FP/LL than to charge us a few dollars here and there and make the process so incredibly complicated. Your assessment that pre-FP was fair to all because everyone was equal for each ride is dead on.

Now that said, there were people who knew how to play the FP+ system well to maximize their experience and get more than others. I understand why they prefer going back to FP+, but for most people, no fast pass would be the most beneficial. Also, there are those who are more limited in mobility and can't stand the heat of waiting in line. I can understand their plight as well, but I feel that those folks are far smaller in number compared to the majority, and they should adjust accordingly. There are other solutions that don't have to include FP such choosing to visit during the cooler months among many others. I'm sorry, but in life I can't stand when everything has to change to accommodate a few people that find it hard to participate. It happens everywhere in life. Simply said, life can't change for everyone to allow everyone to be able to do everything. That sounds cold-hearted and lacking empathy, but it's just a fact.

 

[Diamond Dot]

If I'm honest, I did have a better time than I expected, but, the reservation system is a nonsense, it's about controlling the crowd and not the numbers. I didn't go to the reserved park in the morning, but, didn't realise you had to go to it to unlock the hopper. So I went to MK in the evening and they told me I couldn't enter as my park hopper hadn't been unlocked. I questioned the logic of this, that all the reservations for MK had been taken, but, if I'd unlocked the hopper I could get in. So it couldn't be about capacity. I think it's because I'm on my own, but, they unlocked the hopper at guest relations so I could go into MK.
The reservation system is another shameful con by those who make the decisions. WDW is being run like a cheapskate operation and I'm not sure if I like being treated like a sheep being herded into where they want me to go, cutting services like mousekeeping and treating guests like possible criminals with the room checks and the lack of janitorial staff means the bathrooms are a disgrace.
I do hate the reservation system, it has taken all the spontaneity out of a Disney vacation and is completely unnecessary, let people into the park and when it reaches the desired capacity then stop people entering, have people swipe their bands/tickets on leaving or have sensors at the exits and then start letting others in. They can do it for car parking, why not in the parks, but, I fear this system will still be here long after the pandemic is in the history books.

 

[walee]

A leaked photo of Mickey with no head. At this point we’re getting pretty close the standards are lowering fast.

 

[NickMaio]

Me too! I met a lovely family behind us (their party was quite large that it was hard to keep the "6-ft distance" between us" and the dad and I had a great time talking about everything we had in common! I can't remember the last time that happened in line. Everyone was much more polite I felt and I honestly didn't see the line jumping either because the queues moved!!!! Can you imagine how low the wait time would be if they opened both sides of SM as stand-by lines?!

Very fast indeed......

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes, I agree. I loved all my trips before fastpass was even a thing! We were all equal. We all stood in the lines. We talked to others, people watched, played games with the kids. The lines always moved! I don't understand Why disney had to have a fp in the first place? The everyone equal line for all was a winner IMO. You can go back to no fp and I bet people would love it that way. But, sadly, disney won't change. Just one more reason we won't be back. I'm always hoping that disney will return to great customer service and reverse all the negative changes I've seen, but am doubtful that will ever happen.

The whole thing was a dog and pony show. It was promoted as something to help the Type A personalities think that they were getting to see rides faster. That never was what happened. The time you saved with a FP you more then paid for when you had to get in standby because they stopped issuing FP's. It also was thought that if they got a few through quicker they might spend more money shopping while waiting for the next FP window to open up. That didn't work either. The first time I visited WDW after FP came out I noticed that the standby lines had something that they never really had before. Pure unadulterated anger! People were hot and frustrated because if they wanted to see their favorite attraction they had to stand there watching dozens or more folks walking up and past them while you stood in one place and hardly ever moved. However, once the elephant in the room (Fastpass) was established they couldn't get rid of it and only issued a different version that was always worse then the original, no FP needed, lines.

 

[WDWJoeG]

The whole thing was a dog and pony show. It was promoted as something to help the Type A personalities think that they were getting to see rides faster. That never was what happened. The time you saved with a FP you more then paid for when you had to get in standby because they stopped issuing FP's. It also was thought that if they got a few through quicker they might spend more money shopping while waiting for the next FP window to open up. That didn't work either. The first time I visited WDW after FP came out I noticed that the standby lines had something that they never really had before. Pure unadulterated anger! People were hot and frustrated because if they wanted to see their favorite attraction they had to stand there watching a dozen or more folks walking up and past them while you stood in one place and hardly ever moved. However, once the elephant in the room (Fastpass) was established they couldn't get rid of it and only issued a different version that was always worse then the original, no FP needed lines.

Yup. They have worked themselves into a corner now. For decades they surveyed people and (not shockingly) the number one complaint was long lines. So they developed FastPass to combat that issue and change the perception. It absolutely worked to change the perception, people felt like they had a way to avoid lines, and didn't really understand that yes, you have a FastPass for Space Mountain, but now you're waiting an hour for Peter Pan.

To try to roll it back, they open themselves up for the number one complaint. Add in the fact that it is now monetized and we are never going back.

I personally hate these systems. They make your day "about the rides" and you end up being a slave to the system, pounding your phone, running around the park, and all of the stress/hassle everybody has mentioned.

I really noticed it at Disneyland during that window last summer - we wandered into a land and fully got to experience the shops, atmosphere, all of the attractions, etc. before moving on to the next land. It wasn't about THIS ride and then over here to THIS ride. It was taking in the entire experience.

That's what is making the park more Six Flags and less Disney, it's not about being a slave to the rides.