What will it take to stop you from going to WDW?

[GimpYancIent]

Disney must be using the reservations to predict how many people will attend each park each day so they can set staffing levels. They probably used FP+ reservations to do this but those 30 day ressies are gone, only day-of now,.which is not far enough in advance to change staffing.

So IMO there is a reason, it's not a great one and it serves management rather than guests. In a way asking them to do away with reservations is asking for FP+ back. They could maybe use ticket sales and restaurant reservations, but they require some guesswork compared to park reservations or FP+.

Got it. Yes, it's a service for management (simply as a feeling of control if anything) and not the customer / patron / guest. My point is (as it has been pointed out by other posters) when I go on vacation I do so to relax, enjoy, take a break, not have to work, do something not in my normal daily routine and not have to adhere to a planned schedule. As things stand now to do a Disney vacation a detailed analysis needs to be performed, a schedule developed, budgeting by item / experience established and a time line established. Then to keep up with everything one has to keep the smart device charged and in front to the face. Disney has successfully taken the vacation out of a vacation.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The real danger for Disney is generational. I agree that people will be going less. But that doesn't mean they will stop going on vacation.

There are far too many people right now that have an emotional attachment to the place (me included). Not going is not an option. So going less becomes the viable alternative. But in doing so, we help fulfill their objective of going less but spending more. And adhering to their vision of how we should vacation while at Disney. That is - until we individually reach our own personal "red-line".

When the emotional connection dissipates over a generation or two - Disney will become a shell of what it is even today from an experience perspective. Hopefully, somebody there recognizes this and tries to "right the ship" - but I wouldn't count on it.

Here is the problem with their system. I was 35 before I ever went. After that, until now, I have gone 46 time since 1983. Two thirds of that was from Vermont. In the last 5 years I have only been once due to health problems. My point is that for many years WDW was a huge part of my life and the thing that I looked forward to with excitement year after year. I even took a side trip to Disneyland on its 50th. Made a trip to Europe six years ago and took a day out to visit Disneyland Paris. My children who are now in their late 40's with grown children have been about 10 times total and only about three times since their children were born and one of those was financially sponsored by me as a full family trip. Their kids including the family one have been 2 and 3 times. How many times does anyone think that my grandchildren will go on their own. I'll bet zero and so the customer number drops by generations. They aren't feeling it now, but someday they will. The place will survive, but with far fewer, more wealthy guest who, due to that wealth, will quickly get bored and find some other fun places to vacation again.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Got it. Yes, it's a service for management (simply as a feeling of control if anything) and not the customer / patron / guest. My point is (as it has been pointed out by other posters) when I go on vacation I do so to relax, enjoy, take a break, not have to work, do something not in my normal daily routine and not have to adhere to a planned schedule. As things stand now to do a Disney vacation a detailed analysis needs to be performed, a schedule developed, budgeting by item / experience established and a time line established. Then to keep up with everything one has to keep the smart device charged and in front to the face. Disney has successfully taken the vacation out of a vacation.

WDW is getting close to if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.

 

[Sternhoo]

I'm copying this from Editor516 ....

"I’m a Disney fan. I’ve been to WDW more than 30 times. I’m a shareholder. I’m the guy friends turn to when they plan trips.

But I’m pretty much done with Disney for a while.

I’m old enough to remember when IP wasn’t smeared across EPCOT. When on-property hotels were both specially themed places and affordable for a family of four. When Extra Magic Hours were, you know, actual hours. When Disney didn’t charge you to park at their hotels. When they picked you up and dropped you off at the airport, and the price of that service was baked into the cost of your stay. When you didn’t have to pay for FastPass. When you got MagicBands. When tickets for special events didn’t run you hundreds of dollars. When you’d never see a burned out light bulb on the facades of the Main Street USA shops, and when the insides of those shops were filled with unique items (like the magic shop). When all of the boutiques inside the EPCOT pavilions had unique and cool items from the countries they represented.

I remember a time when you could immerse yourself in the bubble and forget about the world that went on outside that bubble. It seemed that Disney corporate leadership worked hard to create and maintain that bubble, too.

But those days are long gone, and probably won’t return.

I get that the parks have to adapt to modern guest sensibilities. I get Disney is a moneymaking business.

But what I don’t get is how or why Disney has sucked the magic out of what used to be a special place.

Gone is the importance of the guest experience. Here is the new Disney, a woke corporation that will add their intellectual property to anything and everything, who will burst the bubble of fantasy with the preachiness, posturing, and lecturing of every other modern corporation, and who will charge you hundreds and thousands of dollars for the privilege.

Like sports leagues did to their games, Disney is ruining their products by letting their new corporate ideology permeate the way they operate their parks. Just as I watched a pro football game to escape from the crushing weight of the news, I would go to Disney to enter that bubble of fantasy. But as far as I can tell, that bubble burst and has been replaced by a greedy, unimaginative corporate landscape.

I’m scheduled to next visit Disney World in December. It’s going to be my last trip for a while. I’m showing my dissatisfaction with their woke-profiteering-first, improved-guest-experience-last attitude by taking my dollars elsewhere. If friends weren’t traveling a great distance to meet us there, I’d have already cancelled the trip.

Disney World used to be a magical place. It’s not anymore. It’s a mashup of politically correct profiteering coated with a veneer of intellectual property. And I can’t - and won’t - support it anymore."

..... my family have been going to WDW for 25 years now. My wife and I spent our honeymoon there and our two sons grew up on trips almost every year. This year will probably be our last for a while. Saddens me that the Magic has been stripped from Disney. I honestly don't believe that this is the end product that Walt Disney or Roy Disney themselves envisioned or expected. No one can change my mind on that.

 

[DarthVader]

Disney must be using the reservations to predict how many people will attend each park each day so they can set staffing levels.

I've heard someone postulate that very reason. Their hypothesis is that with the reservation system in place they can provide the minimum amount of staffing. A somewhat pessimistic perspective to be sure, but I'm of the opinion that's probably not too far off from the truth.

 

[Chi84]

I wouldn't be too quick to attribute an evil motivation to the park reservation system. The FP+ system gave Disney a very good idea of where people were going to be each day and I'm sure they distributed the passes in a way that guided people to particular parks. Now that FP+ is gone, park reservations give them the same general idea of where people will be. I haven't heard of them being unduly limited on days that aren't busy. Also, every business would like to know how to optimize staff so that you don't have too many people in one place and too few in another.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Here is the problem with their system. I was 35 before I ever went. After that, until now, I have gone 46 time since 1983. Two thirds of that was from Vermont. In the last 5 years I have only been once due to health problems. My point is that for many years WDW was a huge part of my life and the thing that I looked forward to with excitement year after year. I even took a side trip to Disneyland on its 50th. Made a trip to Europe six years ago and took a day out to visit Disneyland Paris. My children who are now in their late 40's with grown children have been about 10 times total and only about three times since their children were born and one of those was financially sponsored by me as a full family trip. Their kids including the family one have been 2 and 3 times. How many times does anyone think that my grandchildren will go on their own. I'll bet zero and so the customer number drops by generations. They aren't feeling it now, but someday they will. The place will survive, but with far fewer, more wealthy guest who, due to that wealth, will quickly get bored and find some other fun places to vacation again.

Here's the thing, that's making the assumption that Disney is static and does nothing. How much do you want to bet that if those numbers drop in any meaniful way that Disney will do something. now of course whether or not it will be enough remains to be seen and actually that might be a good thing... a substantial drop in visitors might force them to listen to their customers.

Next, not sure if you remember but I remember the forecast of doom when ticket prices crossed the $100 mark. People here and every where else had a freaky melt down about how Disney was now for the rich (and personally I do not remember a time when it wasn't expensive but I only started going in the early 2000's) and that they would soon rue the day because people would stop going. has not happened yet

Now the one thing the pandemic did show is that no business is too big to fail so I never say never but I will say if I had 10 bucks for every time we've predicted that wdw would be feeling a substantial decrease in visitors/revenue. I'd be rich.

I think the next 20 years they'll be okay. lol after that I'll probably be happy if I remember my own name.

 

[GimpYancIent]

WDW is getting close to if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.

CLOSE? It's there!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Here's the thing, that's making the assumption that Disney is static and does nothing. How much do you want to bet that if those numbers drop in any meaniful way that Disney will do something. now of course whether or not it will be enough remains to be seen and actually that might be a good thing... a substantial drop in visitors might force them to listen to their customers.

Next, not sure if you remember but I remember the forecast of doom when ticket prices crossed the $100 mark. People here and every where else had a freaky melt down about how Disney was now for the rich (and personally I do not remember a time when it wasn't expensive but I only started going in the early 2000's) and that they would soon rue the day because people would stop going. has not happened yet

Now the one thing the pandemic did show is that no business is too big to fail so I never say never but I will say if I had 10 bucks for every time we've predicted that wdw would be feeling a substantial decrease in visitors/revenue. I'd be rich.

I think the next 20 years they'll be okay. lol after that I'll probably be happy if I remember my own name.

I wasn't one that forecast the end of Disney due to $100. tickets. Even so, I think 20 years is more optimistic than I believe possible.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I wasn't one that forecast the end of Disney due to $100. tickets. Even so, I think 20 years is more optimistic than I believe possible.

So let me ask a hypothetical question, and this is totally quessing. What do you see as a possible fallout?? Worst case scenario??
Disney sees a 50% drop in attendance??
Do you think within the next 20 years something happening to make a significant change in management of the parks??

My guess is that if anything that drastic was a possibility they might sell off the parks ( which wouldn't be a bad thing).

Personally I think Disney might see a dip in attendance and then they'll just offer up discounts to lure folks back.

Lol ps. I know zero about park business operations. This is just crystal ball gazing

 

[Goofyernmost]

Hypothetically, I don't know, but I feel strongly that 20 years from now you won't even recognize WDW, it is is there at all. However, twenty years from now I will be 94 and if I still exist I think it highly unlikely that I will give a damn.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I wouldn't be too quick to attribute an evil motivation to the park reservation system. The FP+ system gave Disney a very good idea of where people were going to be each day and I'm sure they distributed the passes in a way that guided people to particular parks. Now that FP+ is gone, park reservations give them the same general idea of where people will be. I haven't heard of them being unduly limited on days that aren't busy. Also, every business would like to know how to optimize staff so that you don't have too many people in one place and too few in another.

Regarding your first sentence, I would be. I feel like the rest of your response speaks to it. Disney used to be a company that tried to maximize the experience for each and every guest, and worked hard to make people want to return, and want to be on property, etc., etc. If you're inconveniencing your customers with another process so that you can minimize staff, you don't really care about your customer's experience. You only care about your costs. I'm not saying that makes Disney good or bad. I'm saying that it makes Disney different than they once were, and what separated them from all other companies in the entertainment business. Now, just like all other companies, they only care about the presidential flash cards they collect, and not about your experience, or that you even want to return to their property after visiting.

Back to my original "I would be"... to quote myself. I would call their implementation of the reservation system as having nefarious motivation. Not that Disney is more evil than any other company necessarily, but the motivation to implement the system as you stated which makes them not the Disney so many of us have been loyal to for years, decades, eons. It's just a sad deterioration of the way they have always made things special in the past.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Regarding your first sentence, I would be. I feel like the rest of your response speaks to it. Disney used to be a company that tried to maximize the experience for each and every guest, and worked hard to make people want to return, and want to be on property, etc., etc. If you're inconveniencing your customers with another process so that you can minimize staff, you don't really care about your customer's experience. You only care about your costs. I'm not saying that makes Disney good or bad. I'm saying that it makes Disney different than they once were, and what separated them from all other companies in the entertainment business. Now, just like all other companies, they only care about the presidential flash cards they collect, and not about your experience, or that you even want to return to their property after visiting.

Back to my original "I would be"... to quote myself. I would call their implementation of the reservation system as having nefarious motivation. Not that Disney is more evil than any other company necessarily, but the motivation to implement the system as you stated which makes them not the Disney so many of us have been loyal to for years, decades, eons. It's just a sad deterioration of the way they have always made things special in the past.

The fundamental shift happened when they stopped respecting their guests and starting looking at them as just stupid rubes ready to be fleeced.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

The fundamental shift happened when they stopped respecting their guests and starting looking at them as just stupid rubes ready to be fleeced.

Ain't that the truth, and who could blame them really.

Speaking only for myself, I had other circumstances that stopped me from visiting past 2009 for a few years, but after I resolved those, I stopped wanting to return. FP+ and the incessant planning required to "have fun" ruined the experience for me. Staring at my phone isn't how I want to spend a vacation, nor the planning for rides, etc. months in advance. I know many people loved that system because they knew how to work it, but these are just my feelings about those changes. I stopped wanting to go, therefore stopped going. I haven't taken a vacation since '09 due to the changes implemented. I dropped in for a 1-day while in town for work and it was horrific. It's impossible to enjoy a last minute pop-in at the parks. That was about 5 years ago and I have no desire to return.

My point being that if they keep making changes, and people's behavior doesn't change, in fact attendance increases, they are left with one of two conclusions. Either they're pushing all the right buttons and doing things right, or they've come to realize that no matter how badly they screw things up, people will still pour their hard-earned money into their coffers. Or possibly both. To paraphrase Field of Dreams... if you screw it up, they will still come.

 

[Diamond Dot]

I've never seen so much line jumping as on this trip, especially on ROTR. A young lad, aged in his mid teens squeezed past everyone loudly telling us his family were in line ahead. Call me cynical, but, something told me he wasn't being truthful. Perhaps I'll try that next time.

 

[cindy_k]

I'm a DVC member and have been since the early 2000's and a local. I am have reduced my visits to Disney World to Moonlight Magic Nights (free park night party perk for DVC members) and perhaps a visit with out of state relatives, rare.
I haven't had a Annual Pass in 4 years now. We bought a Universal one a few years ago, but barely used it, (the traffic thru Orlando is terrible), so I cancelled that too.
I am renting out my DVC points now, taking the money and going on other vacations.
The price will have to come down a lot before I will start going to parks again regularly.

 

[Diamond Dot]

Ain't that the truth, and who could blame them really.

Speaking only for myself, I had other circumstances that stopped me from visiting past 2009 for a few years, but after I resolved those, I stopped wanting to return. FP+ and the incessant planning required to "have fun" ruined the experience for me. Staring at my phone isn't how I want to spend a vacation, nor the planning for rides, etc. months in advance. I know many people loved that system because they knew how to work it, but these are just my feelings about those changes. I stopped wanting to go, therefore stopped going. I haven't taken a vacation since '09 due to the changes implemented. I dropped in for a 1-day while in town for work and it was horrific. It's impossible to enjoy a last minute pop-in at the parks. That was about 5 years ago and I have no desire to return.

My point being that if they keep making changes, and people's behavior doesn't change, in fact attendance increases, they are left with one of two conclusions. Either they're pushing all the right buttons and doing things right, or they've come to realize that no matter how badly they screw things up, people will still pour their hard-earned money into their coffers. Or possibly both. To paraphrase Field of Dreams... if you screw it up, they will still come.

With FP+ I never felt the need for incessant planning or to constantly look at my phone. I got on the computer 60 days out, booked my FP+, having already decided what I wanted to do and job done. I'd write them out on prices of paper to reference them in the parks and only used my phone after the three had been used up, usually in line after scanning magic band, to book another.
The new system of reservations is the worst thing Disney bods have done, it is unnecessary and controlling. If you thought it was bad before, then it's worse now. No more sitting at home or at a hotel thinking 'I quite fancy popping into EPCOT or Magic Kingdom' because it ain't gonna happen, even for an evening. Disney says 'No reservation, no entry' even if the park involved was at 50% capacity at that point in the day, because it had no reservations available when it opened that morning according to the website and that is how it works and I'm talking from personal experience, not rumours or hearsay.