What will it take to stop you from going to WDW?

[Pepper's Ghost]

The whole thing was a dog and pony show. It was promoted as something to help the Type A personalities think that they were getting to see rides faster. That never was what happened. The time you saved with a FP you more then paid for when you had to get in standby because they stopped issuing FP's. It also was thought that if they got a few through quicker they might spend more money shopping while waiting for the next FP window to open up. That didn't work either. The first time I visited WDW after FP came out I noticed that the standby lines had something that they never really had before. Pure unadulterated anger! People were hot and frustrated because if they wanted to see their favorite attraction they had to stand there watching a dozen or more folks walking up and past them while you stood in one place and hardly ever moved. However, once the elephant in the room (Fastpass) was established they couldn't get rid of it and only issued a different version that was always worse then the original, no FP needed lines.

BINGO!! The bolded above is absolutely true. I saw the same.

Yup. They have worked themselves into a corner now. For decades they surveyed people and (not shockingly) the number one complaint was long lines. So they developed FastPass to combat that issue and change the perception. It absolutely worked to change the perception, people felt like they had a way to avoid lines, and didn't really understand that yes, you have a FastPass for Space Mountain, but now you're waiting an hour for Peter Pan.

To try to roll it back, they open themselves up for the number one complaint. Add in the fact that it is now monetized and we are never going back.

I personally hate these systems. They make your day "about the rides" and you end up being a slave to the system, pounding your phone, running around the park, and all of the stress/hassle everybody has mentioned.

I really noticed it at Disneyland during that window last summer - we wandered into a land and fully got to experience the shops, atmosphere, all of the attractions, etc. before moving on to the next land. It wasn't about THIS ride and then over here to THIS ride. It was taking in the entire experience.

That's what is making the park more Six Flags and less Disney, it's not about being a slave to the rides.

That's exactly how it was pre-FP. You could enjoy the park as it unfolded in front of you. Now it's a rush to get here or there. The overall experience sucks now quite frankly.

 

[WDWJoeG]

The overall experience sucks now quite frankly.

Agreed. And for what benefit? That's what bothers me, you've ruined the experience for what? So AP's can power through the E tickets because they know how to game the system?

People are angry, frustrated, and complaining.

I read these trip reports that say "You need to rope drop Big Thunder!" What kind of vacation experience is that?

Maybe, I want to stroll down Main St, have a coffee, enjoy the music and atmosphere entertainment, wander into a land and explore, etc.

Racing to a roller coaster at 8:00 am with your family in tow just sounds like the antithesis of a Disney vacation. You run through the other lands, miss everything, to get to a ride. Ugh.

And I would have said that when I was a teenager as well. If I want that, I'll go to Six Flags.

YMMV

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't want to say that pre FP was always calm and relaxed. Back then, at rope drop, the most popular attraction, Space Mtn. was literally approached on a dead run. It was bad enough that they occasionally had staff slowing the crowd down ahead of them. My approach was to go to the left at the end of MSUSA and let the others run to the right. I could get into most of the attractions by going clockwise and meet the morning dashers somewhere around Small World and then most of the attractions were easy to get too once we past that crowd.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The sooner everyone accepts it the better you'll all be.

Disney is not "Disney" anymore. It's a theme park (or resort if you prefer) that is themed around Disney IP. Nothing more. Everything that made Disney "Disney" no longer exists. Set your expectations accordingly and you won't feel let down. Disney owes nothing to it's guests. It's guests owe nothing to Disney. Guest loyalty to the brand is diminishing. Disney's loyalty to the guest is near non-existent. It's not changing.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

It's no longer a relaxing get-away vacation destination to escape reality at this point, nor is it feasible to my wallet.

Going to Disney is more of a job now that you have to put in a calendar:

1. Park appointments need to be scheduled
-- > One park per day unless Park Hopper assigned
-- > Park Hopper assigned at certain times only available if you are at reserved park initially
2. Time needs to be set for certain lines
-- > If time is overlapping with food schedule:
-- > Book Fast Lightning Lane; Pay for Genie+
--- > Wake up early to check LL; Reserve ride schedule times
3. Reservations for Restaurants....
4. Ask Sam for help
-- > If Sam does nothing....

 

[Naplesgolfer]

The sooner everyone accepts it the better you'll all be.

Disney is not "Disney" anymore. It's a theme park (or resort if you prefer) that is themed around Disney IP. Nothing more. Everything that made Disney "Disney" no longer exists. Set your expectations accordingly and you won't feel let down. Disney owes nothing to it's guests. It's guests owe nothing to Disney. Guest loyalty to the brand is diminishing. Disney's loyalty to the guest is near non-existent. It's not changing.

Unfortunately you are right. I have a hard time excepting it sometimes because I want it to be different.

 

[DarthVader]

I'm late to this thread, but I stopped going, we had a trip planned for this past February. Cost, crowds, and disney making life harder were the major reasons.

A week trip (I think it was 8 nights), with 6 day park hopper ticket was in the neighborhood of 6,000 dollars. That was for a moderate resort, not a top tier resort. Throw in obscene flight prices, about 4k, food budget and other day to day costs of a vacation, we were looking at a 12,000 to 14,000 dollar vacation. I'm not rich, I've been saving up for 4+ years. There's no way a Disney vacation at a moderate resort is worth that.

Then as I was looking, I noticed that every resort was full, i.e., looking for a cheaper resort illustrated that every resort, value, moderate and luxury had no availability. There was no way I wanted to pay that much money and be crushed into a park like sardines with insane wait times.

Disney's wacky requirement of making park reservations, no longer having free fast passes, and ADRs now have be made a lot sooner was all that was needed to convince the family that this was not worth it.

 

[NelleBelle]

So I hear everyone complaining about the park reservations and how you have to plan ahead what park you're going to be in. Didn't we all have to do that back when we were using (and "loving" FP+)?? You had to make your selections for every day for the parks you wanted to be in so I'm not sure what the angst is about? Park reservations don't necessarily bother me; the park hopping at 2pm is somewhat annoying to me (we generally hop later in the afternoon anyway) but can definitely see how it does impact other guests. And I wholeheartedly agree that genie needs to be trashed!!!

One thing I miss is getting the mailers from Disney saying, "Smith family, we miss you, here's a special code for $___ off your next stay with us!" Haven't got one of those in years

 

[Patcheslee]

So I hear everyone complaining about the park reservations and how you have to plan ahead what park you're going to be in. Didn't we all have to do that back when we were using (and "loving" FP+)?? You had to make your selections for every day for the parks you wanted to be in so I'm not sure what the angst is about? Park reservations don't necessarily bother me; the park hopping at 2pm is somewhat annoying to me (we generally hop later in the afternoon anyway) but can definitely see how it does impact other guests. And I wholeheartedly agree that genie needs to be trashed!!!

One thing I miss is getting the mailers from Disney saying, "Smith family, we miss you, here's a special code for $___ off your next stay with us!" Haven't got one of those in years

I'd say Genie+ being toted as an improvement because people don't have to preplan is what irks me. We still do, they just changed what part we have to plan ahead. It's not like TS or Genie+ that is optional, it's required to visit at all.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

So I hear everyone complaining about the park reservations and how you have to plan ahead what park you're going to be in. Didn't we all have to do that back when we were using (and "loving" FP+)?? You had to make your selections for every day for the parks you wanted to be in so I'm not sure what the angst is about? Park reservations don't necessarily bother me; the park hopping at 2pm is somewhat annoying to me (we generally hop later in the afternoon anyway) but can definitely see how it does impact other guests. And I wholeheartedly agree that genie needs to be trashed!!!

One thing I miss is getting the mailers from Disney saying, "Smith family, we miss you, here's a special code for $___ off your next stay with us!" Haven't got one of those in years

Back when we had the paper FastPasses, it was still a joy to plan the parks. However, they weren't having to be "reserved" to use said FastPass. When FP+ came out, things started to get jumbled up. Then welcome Genie+ and LL on top of park reservation alongside the weirdest Park Hopping option...

 

[DarthVader]

not sure what the angst is about?

I won't disagree, and yes FP+ meant that you were rewarded for sticking with your initial plan. Where as with the park reservation, you're not rewarded but punished. Let me put it this way, 2019, we make FP+ reservations for HS, but when we arrive, the kids want to go to MK. At that point we can go to MK, and just deal with the standby lines.

Fast forward to 2022, we make a park reservation for HS, but again the kids want to go to MK that day. Can I? No.

With proper planning, discipline and understanding the constraints we are in, its not a show stopper, but it removes facets of a vacation that tend to increase enjoyment. Everyone is different to be sure, and for me vacations are not about rigid schedules but decompressing doing things that the family wants to do.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

decompressing

This! 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x this!
The way it seems now is, especially for myself, I need to decompress after coming back home from Disney.

I don't like feeling like I need a vacation from my vacation, but that's just me.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I won't disagree, and yes FP+ meant that you were rewarded for sticking with your initial plan. Where as with the park reservation, you're not rewarded but punished. Let me put it this way, 2019, we make FP+ reservations for HS, but when we arrive, the kids want to go to MK. At that point we can go to MK, and just deal with the standby lines.

Fast forward to 2022, we make a park reservation for HS, but again the kids want to go to MK that day. Can I? No.

With proper planning, discipline and understanding the constraints we are in, its not a show stopper, but it removes facets of a vacation that tend to increase enjoyment. Everyone is different to be sure, and for me vacations are not about rigid schedules but decompressing doing things that the family wants to do.

Yep. Have to agree with all of this. Great screen name btw. Yes, everyone is different, but this is the biggest problem I have with Genie+, LL, park reservations, and the old FP+. You can't just go and enjoy. First, it's the hassle of a ridiculous amount of pre-planning for vacation. Planning... fine, but it's just too much. Second, it's the need to stick to the plan, or basically waste all the money you've poured into the vacation. The biggest problem is that Disney is sacrificing vacationers fun, spontaneity, relaxation, etc. so that they can staff as they see fit. They don't want to you changing your mind to attend another park on a whim because they're planning for employees based on the plans which you locked into months ago. That really bothers me. When you go to a vacation resort, or islands, do you have to lock in every aspect of every day months in advance? Mostly not. You can absorb the vacation as it comes to you and just have a good time.

Now that said, they're Disney's parks and they can do what they want with them. The only issue they'll run into is backlash from customers who don't like their drastic changes. And with that, I can choose to spend my dollars elsewhere more relaxing than Disney, as can everyone else. Sure, there will be plenty of people who won't be deterred and don't mind a strict regimen of Disney fun. Those will be the folks who will be left in the parks not having to pay for LL or Genie+ eventually when crowds shrink due to the pain of planning, and being told they're not allowed spontaneity. It's just my opinion, but I truly believe Disney's parks will suffer severely in the coming years based on these decisions.

 

[Greg in TN]

I talked with a friend who just got back from a Disney trip--Disney veteran, multi-time return visitor, but not a frequenter of boards like these. We were talking about other things first, but she brought up the Disney trip. She said she got very frustrated. Makes her not want to ever go again. Blamed the crowds, the complications, the extreme-planning necessary, the uber-expense, combined with charging for things that used to be included in the price, the reduction of benefits, etc.

So, for everyone on these boards who's frustrated with Disney and questioning any return trips, how many are there NOT on these boards, who get back from their most recent or their one-&-done trip feeling the same way?

I know, there have always been folks who get frustrated with this or that about Disney and say they won't go back, but what I'm seeing now, the frequency, the anger, is FAR beyond what I've seen in the past.

 

[Mrs Potato Head]

I think alot of people may be going LESS as opposed to not at all. For our family we still want to experience Disney regularly but unlike preCovid we are no longer traveling 3 times a year. First it was the rise in annual passes that cut back our trips and now the general nickel and diming and reduced perks (looking at you Genie) leaves us feeling like it's not as magical a trip. We were just there 3 weeks ago and our next trip back will be early Spring 2023. Normally we'd do a summer and then fall trip in between but not anymore. We are ready to try some other locations in the US that won't break the bank.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So I hear everyone complaining about the park reservations and how you have to plan ahead what park you're going to be in. Didn't we all have to do that back when we were using (and "loving" FP+)?? You had to make your selections for every day for the parks you wanted to be in so I'm not sure what the angst is about? Park reservations don't necessarily bother me; the park hopping at 2pm is somewhat annoying to me (we generally hop later in the afternoon anyway) but can definitely see how it does impact other guests. And I wholeheartedly agree that genie needs to be trashed!!!

One thing I miss is getting the mailers from Disney saying, "Smith family, we miss you, here's a special code for $___ off your next stay with us!" Haven't got one of those in years

The difference was, and it is a big difference, they never denied you admission to whatever park you were to pick and leave you hanging or starting over.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I think alot of people may be going LESS as opposed to not at all. For our family we still want to experience Disney regularly but unlike preCovid we are no longer traveling 3 times a year. First it was the rise in annual passes that cut back our trips and now the general nickel and diming and reduced perks (looking at you Genie) leaves us feeling like it's not as magical a trip. We were just there 3 weeks ago and our next trip back will be early Spring 2023. Normally we'd do a summer and then fall trip in between but not anymore. We are ready to try some other locations in the US that won't break the bank.

The real danger for Disney is generational. I agree that people will be going less. But that doesn't mean they will stop going on vacation.

There are far too many people right now that have an emotional attachment to the place (me included). Not going is not an option. So going less becomes the viable alternative. But in doing so, we help fulfill their objective of going less but spending more. And adhering to their vision of how we should vacation while at Disney. That is - until we individually reach our own personal "red-line".

When the emotional connection dissipates over a generation or two - Disney will become a shell of what it is even today from an experience perspective. Hopefully, somebody there recognizes this and tries to "right the ship" - but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[WDWJoeG]

The real danger for Disney is generational. I agree that people will be going less. But that doesn't mean they will stop going on vacation.

There are far too many people right now that have an emotional attachment to the place (me included). Not going is not an option. So going less becomes the viable alternative. But in doing so, we help fulfill their objective of going less but spending more. And adhering to their vision of how we should vacation while at Disney. That is - until we individually reach our own personal "red-line".

When the emotional connection dissipates over a generation or two - Disney will become a shell of what it is even today from an experience perspective. Hopefully, somebody there recognizes this and tries to "right the ship" - but I wouldn't count on it.

Just remember, every single time you go and spend money you are telling management that you support what they are doing and simply reinforcing their strategy.

Customers can only blame themselves.

 

[DarthVader]

Just remember, every single time you go and spend money you are telling management that you support what they are doing and simply reinforcing their strategy.

Customers can only blame themselves.

That's the bottom line, literally.

They're making money hand over fist, if resorts and parks are full, they'll continue along the same path.

In all honesty, I can't control what others do, what disney does or what the future will hold. I'll try to make the best decision for my family and I'll hold no ill will for others who choose to go to disney. Its not my money, and not my time.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I think alot of people may be going LESS as opposed to not at all. For our family we still want to experience Disney regularly but unlike preCovid we are no longer traveling 3 times a year. First it was the rise in annual passes that cut back our trips and now the general nickel and diming and reduced perks (looking at you Genie) leaves us feeling like it's not as magical a trip. We were just there 3 weeks ago and our next trip back will be early Spring 2023. Normally we'd do a summer and then fall trip in between but not anymore. We are ready to try some other locations in the US that won't break the bank.

The real danger for Disney is generational. I agree that people will be going less. But that doesn't mean they will stop going on vacation.

There are far too many people right now that have an emotional attachment to the place (me included). Not going is not an option. So going less becomes the viable alternative. But in doing so, we help fulfill their objective of going less but spending more. And adhering to their vision of how we should vacation while at Disney. That is - until we individually reach our own personal "red-line".

When the emotional connection dissipates over a generation or two - Disney will become a shell of what it is even today from an experience perspective. Hopefully, somebody there recognizes this and tries to "right the ship" - but I wouldn't count on it.

I believe this will be the case with many of the diehards, including those on these boards. Although it doesn't speak as loudly as those who don't like the changes and won't visit, it does send a message. It really comes down to numbers. Not sure about the figures for the entire resort, but I recall that in 2019 (pre-covid), MK had attendance of approximately 21M visitors. If those who decide not to go anymore mixed with those who reduce visits takes that down 10% or 20%, you're talking about sending Disney a huge message.

I'd never expect anyone to not go to Disney based on my opinions obviously, but those who choose to continue to go regularly or without change to frequency, you're telling Disney with your dollars that their choices are perfectly acceptable and they're on the right track. No one who is unhappy with Disney's decisions should visit and then expect any changes to processes or policies. That'd be like buying another Sams&ng dryer after complaining for the last 4 years that your brand new Sams&ng dryer has required 7 repairs. I know, I know... awfully specific example, right? Yep, I'll never buy another Sams&ng home appliance the rest of my life. Love their cell phones though, so go figure.