What will happen when the Skyliner breaks down?

DisAl

DisAl

Well-Known Member
UltimateRollercoaster said:
You are absolutely ridiculous! Comparing these ropeways to Boeing is insane. The aerial ropeway systems that Disney has purchased are not innovative or new in anyway. It's a proven system, in operation at thousands of sites all over the world.

Most of you don't understand aerial ropeways or Gondolas. Clearly there is a lack of understanding about the safety systems that are in place. In addition to the primary electrical drive motors, each Gondola section will have least one backup motor to drive the section (typically the backup is a diesel powered motor). The secondary drive is typically used in case of a power failure or serious problem with the primary drive. After a lift is evacuated the backup drive typically can be used for regular operation, but at a reduced capacity. However, Disney has put in place additional redundancy by putting in backup power generators incase of a power failure. Those generators will allow Disney to operate the entire system without any service interruption.

Under most shut scenarios the gondolas will be evacuated by simply stopping the loading, and then unloading the onboard passengers at the next station. If the rope speed is not reduced the time to evacuate will be no longer than the travel time of the span being ridden. In other words it will take minutes. The longest span will be the two section ride from Rivera Resort to EPCOT estimated to be 9 minutes.

During wind events Dopplemayr has a set of parameters involving wind direction and speed at which the system can safely operate. Wind may impact the speed at which the ropeway may operate, but not shut it down entirely, so on windy days the system may operate at a reduced speed. Anemometers will be positioned around the various spans and give feedback to the brains of each lift. The system will automatically slow or shut down if wind speed and direction exceeds operating parameters. Management will then make decisions on whether to slow, temporarily stop, or shut down the lift. Under high wind conditions the lift in most situations can be operated very slowly to evacuate the line and then shut down when clear. The lift can also be safely stopped and then restarted if wind is gusting at times.

Line evacuations are rare and always a last option scenario. Typically only done after catastrophic failure.

The lack of air conditioning is not of huge concern. The interior of the cabins will provide shade from the sun and be well ventilated. If the cabins were enclosed with no ventilation then it would be a concern. Sitting in one of the cabins is really going to be no different than walking around outdoors in one of the theme parks.

Disney will have automatic systems to transfer cabins on and off the line should there be a maintenance issue with an individual cabin or grip. Incidents like this may temporarily stop a line, but likely for not more than a few minutes, if at all.

In the past 12 ski seasons I've skied 556 days and taken a total of 8,857 lift rides. Out of all those rides I've never been evacuated and I can count on one hand the number of times the lift was stopped for more than 10 minutes and never longer than about 15 minutes. The concerns over the Disney Gondolas are unwarranted!
Click to expand...
FINALLY, SOMEBODY ON THIS THREAD WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!! Excellent post.
 
Heppenheimer

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
UltimateRollercoaster said:
You are absolutely ridiculous! Comparing these ropeways to Boeing is insane. The aerial ropeway systems that Disney has purchased are not innovative or new in anyway. It's a proven system, in operation at thousands of sites all over the world.

Most of you don't understand aerial ropeways or Gondolas. Clearly there is a lack of understanding about the safety systems that are in place. In addition to the primary electrical drive motors, each Gondola section will have least one backup motor to drive the section (typically the backup is a diesel powered motor). The secondary drive is typically used in case of a power failure or serious problem with the primary drive. After a lift is evacuated the backup drive typically can be used for regular operation, but at a reduced capacity. However, Disney has put in place additional redundancy by putting in backup power generators incase of a power failure. Those generators will allow Disney to operate the entire system without any service interruption.

Under most shut scenarios the gondolas will be evacuated by simply stopping the loading, and then unloading the onboard passengers at the next station. If the rope speed is not reduced the time to evacuate will be no longer than the travel time of the span being ridden. In other words it will take minutes. The longest span will be the two section ride from Rivera Resort to EPCOT estimated to be 9 minutes.

During wind events Dopplemayr has a set of parameters involving wind direction and speed at which the system can safely operate. Wind may impact the speed at which the ropeway may operate, but not shut it down entirely, so on windy days the system may operate at a reduced speed. Anemometers will be positioned around the various spans and give feedback to the brains of each lift. The system will automatically slow or shut down if wind speed and direction exceeds operating parameters. Management will then make decisions on whether to slow, temporarily stop, or shut down the lift. Under high wind conditions the lift in most situations can be operated very slowly to evacuate the line and then shut down when clear. The lift can also be safely stopped and then restarted if wind is gusting at times.

Line evacuations are rare and always a last option scenario. Typically only done after catastrophic failure.

The lack of air conditioning is not of huge concern. The interior of the cabins will provide shade from the sun and be well ventilated. If the cabins were enclosed with no ventilation then it would be a concern. Sitting in one of the cabins is really going to be no different than walking around outdoors in one of the theme parks.

Disney will have automatic systems to transfer cabins on and off the line should there be a maintenance issue with an individual cabin or grip. Incidents like this may temporarily stop a line, but likely for not more than a few minutes, if at all.

In the past 12 ski seasons I've skied 556 days and taken a total of 8,857 lift rides. Out of all those rides I've never been evacuated and I can count on one hand the number of times the lift was stopped for more than 10 minutes and never longer than about 15 minutes. The concerns over the Disney Gondolas are unwarranted!
Click to expand...
What a lot of people don't seem to get... these systems are designed to withstand the winds in the Alps. Barring a hurricane, the wind in Florida usually doesn't compare.

I've been on a lift when the power at the ski resort out. It stopped for about 10 minutes before the back-up generator fired up. Other than the fact that they stopped loading as soon as he power died and the lift was moving a bit slower, you wouldn't notice any difference. I somehow survived with my sanity intact.
 
NormC

NormC

Well-Known Member
UltimateRollercoaster said:
Most of you don't understand aerial ropeways or Gondolas. Clearly there is a lack of understanding about the safety systems that are in place. The concerns over the Disney Gondolas are unwarranted!
Click to expand...
Many of us completely understand this and have already explained it in the actual Skyliner gondola thread many times but the facts get lost in the noise of the juvenile "Ways to die on a gondola" idiocy that has polluted the thread.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Why even bother to respond in this thread. Those that make statements of fear have either not read and understood the number of times everything has been explained in the original Gondola thread or they just refuse to acknowledge that they are just afraid of everything and will never be good with it. More room for the rest of us.

They act like Disney CM's will all be armed military weapons and forcing everyone to ride them. I say, let the fools stay off them. Comparatively, they are a minority anyway and are just playing a game of fear tactics. The Skyliner will be used a lot and it will prove itself to be safe and fun. I don't stay onsite but I will be riding them if I can get there. I remember the old Skyway and I remember that it was fun, messy roof tops and all. If this thread cannot be combined with the original, I think we should just stop posting (after this one, of course) and let it die. Then we will know what will happen if this Skyliner thread breaks down. The Skyliner will be the ultimate, life threatening, thrill ride for that group.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Why even bother to respond in this thread. Those that make statements of fear have either not read and understood the number of times everything has been explained in the original Gondola thread or they just refuse to acknowledge that they are just afraid of everything and will never be good with it. More room for the rest of us.

They act like Disney CM's will all be armed military weapons and forcing everyone to ride them. I say, let the fools stay off them. Comparatively, they are a minority anyway and are just playing a game of fear tactics. The Skyliner will be used a lot and it will prove itself to be safe and fun. I don't stay onsite but I will be riding them if I can get there. I remember the old Skyway and I remember that it was fun, messy roof tops and all. If this thread cannot be combined with the original, I think we should just stop posting (after this one, of course) and let it die. Then we will know what will happen if this Skyliner thread breaks down. The Skyliner will be the ultimate, life threatening, thrill ride for that group.
Click to expand...
I agree. Not only will it be safe and fun but there is no doubt that the SkySauna will help people lose weight as well. What's not to like?
 
Lensman

Lensman

Well-Known Member
Kingtut said:
I was originally dismissive of the Disney Gondolas of Death predictions, but I have been looking at the Boeing 737 MAX issues and realized that while no single person will design a system in such a way that it's users have a good chance of dying. In today's massive companies with committee after committee after committee - we can end up with decisions where the actual safety is impacted. Not intentionally but in a thousand little cuts where doing it this way is OK because X will cover it. Then the next committee decides that X can be reduced and so on. It's not an evil intent but a result of systems where no single person can fully comprehend the ramifications of each decision- and furthermore no single person knows all of the decisions and trade-offs made during design and implementation.

Boeing would never design a flight system which tried to crash the plane but ..... So Disney would never design a gondola system which would put guests at risk - right?

Perhaps we should be a bit more forgiving when people voice their concerns about potential safety issues.
Click to expand...
Boeing seems to have dropped the ball gthere, but let's remember that planes have gotten safer over the years and planes within a model get safer over time as the situations that make them crash are discovered and corrected.

Excess profit motive has led to compromises to safety as much in the past as today, probably more. You don't need a bloated bureaucracy for that, just wrongheaded thinking by people in power.

Specifically to the Boeing case, a faulty AoA sensor plus MCAS only taking input from one AoA sensor plus MCAS having unlimited trim capability plus aerodynamic forces making trim control difficult plus modern pilots not being trained extensively on difficult manual trim situations might have led to disaster. I'm sure there will be 10 or more changes improving safety plus the overall analysis of safety and testing procedures and culture at Boeing plus a review of FAA certification procedures coming out of this.

I'm going to be much less worried before getting on the gondola than I will be getting into the taxi taking me to the airport. Heck, getting on the Skyliner is probably safer than getting into my bathtub.
 
K

Kingtut

Well-Known Member
UltimateRollercoaster said:
You are absolutely ridiculous! Comparing these ropeways to Boeing is insane. The aerial ropeway systems that Disney has purchased are not innovative or new in anyway. It's a proven system, in operation at thousands of sites all over the world.

Most of you don't understand aerial ropeways or Gondolas. Clearly there is a lack of understanding about the safety systems that are in place. In addition to the primary electrical drive motors, each Gondola section will have least one backup motor to drive the section (typically the backup is a diesel powered motor). The secondary drive is typically used in case of a power failure or serious problem with the primary drive. After a lift is evacuated the backup drive typically can be used for regular operation, but at a reduced capacity. However, Disney has put in place additional redundancy by putting in backup power generators incase of a power failure. Those generators will allow Disney to operate the entire system without any service interruption.

Under most shut scenarios the gondolas will be evacuated by simply stopping the loading, and then unloading the onboard passengers at the next station. If the rope speed is not reduced the time to evacuate will be no longer than the travel time of the span being ridden. In other words it will take minutes. The longest span will be the two section ride from Rivera Resort to EPCOT estimated to be 9 minutes.

During wind events Dopplemayr has a set of parameters involving wind direction and speed at which the system can safely operate. Wind may impact the speed at which the ropeway may operate, but not shut it down entirely, so on windy days the system may operate at a reduced speed. Anemometers will be positioned around the various spans and give feedback to the brains of each lift. The system will automatically slow or shut down if wind speed and direction exceeds operating parameters. Management will then make decisions on whether to slow, temporarily stop, or shut down the lift. Under high wind conditions the lift in most situations can be operated very slowly to evacuate the line and then shut down when clear. The lift can also be safely stopped and then restarted if wind is gusting at times.

Line evacuations are rare and always a last option scenario. Typically only done after catastrophic failure.

The lack of air conditioning is not of huge concern. The interior of the cabins will provide shade from the sun and be well ventilated. If the cabins were enclosed with no ventilation then it would be a concern. Sitting in one of the cabins is really going to be no different than walking around outdoors in one of the theme parks.

Disney will have automatic systems to transfer cabins on and off the line should there be a maintenance issue with an individual cabin or grip. Incidents like this may temporarily stop a line, but likely for not more than a few minutes, if at all.

In the past 12 ski seasons I've skied 556 days and taken a total of 8,857 lift rides. Out of all those rides I've never been evacuated and I can count on one hand the number of times the lift was stopped for more than 10 minutes and never longer than about 15 minutes. The concerns over the Disney Gondolas are unwarranted!
Click to expand...
My intent was NOT to compare the complexity of the 737 MAX to the Disney gondolas. It was to compare the increasingly bureaucratic cultures in large corporations where decisions are made far from the actual systems where such decisions can have an effect on overall system safety and reliability. I was asking for a little more consideration for people who were expressing concerns.

So you feel there could be no safety issues with the gondolas. You know Disney bought the manufacturer recommended package without any Disney required modifications or deletions. You know that the selected manufacturer did not "adjust" anything in order to achieve a lower bid cost. You know that there were no specific installation situations which could be problematic. You know that there are no software control issues with a rope system this larger and more complex than most.

What, me worry?
 
R

RollerCoaster

Well-Known Member
Kingtut said:
My intent was NOT to compare the complexity of the 737 MAX to the Disney gondolas. It was to compare the increasingly bureaucratic cultures in large corporations where decisions are made far from the actual systems where such decisions can have an effect on overall system safety and reliability. I was asking for a little more consideration for people who were expressing concerns.

So you feel there could be no safety issues with the gondolas. You know Disney bought the manufacturer recommended package without any Disney required modifications or deletions. You know that the selected manufacturer did not "adjust" anything in order to achieve a lower bid cost. You know that there were no specific installation situations which could be problematic. You know that there are no software control issues with a rope system this larger and more complex than most.

What, me worry?
Click to expand...

Clearly you're a conspiracy theorist when you suggest companies are purposely sacrificing safety for profits.

For your information this is not a complicated ropeway at all. There are much more elaborate and complex systems in operation around the world. Peak-2-Peak at Whistler Blackcomb for example is 1,430 feet off the ground at one point and has the longest free span between towers- 1.88 miles. Imagine an evacuation under those circumstances?

In terms of selecting Dopplemayr there are only two suppliers that Disney would consider, Leitner Poma and Dopplemayr, both of which are outstanding companies with exceptional products. While I love the product from Leitner Poma, I feel Dopplemayr is perceived to be the premium supplier. Looking at the installation at Disney to date there is nothing cheap about anything.
 
disneyfireman

disneyfireman

Well-Known Member
I have no concerns using the gondola...or a 737 max. Statistically, I'm more like to be alive at 1500 years old than die in a gondola accident or plane crash. In other words...I dont worry about that crap. Cant wait to ride the gondola at WDW...no worries at all.
 
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disneyfireman

disneyfireman

Well-Known Member
Kingtut said:
I was originally dismissive of the Disney Gondolas of Death predictions, but I have been looking at the Boeing 737 MAX issues and realized that while no single person will design a system in such a way that it's users have a good chance of dying. In today's massive companies with committee after committee after committee - we can end up with decisions where the actual safety is impacted. Not intentionally but in a thousand little cuts where doing it this way is OK because X will cover it. Then the next committee decides that X can be reduced and so on. It's not an evil intent but a result of systems where no single person can fully comprehend the ramifications of each decision- and furthermore no single person knows all of the decisions and trade-offs made during design and implementation.

Boeing would never design a flight system which tried to crash the plane but ..... So Disney would never design a gondola system which would put guests at risk - right?

Perhaps we should be a bit more forgiving when people voice their concerns about potential safety issues.
Click to expand...
jeez...is the earth also flat? lol
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I'm just hoping, for the sake of humanity that some of these statements are just unidentified jokes. If not, the world is in trouble.
 

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