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What will Disney’s response be to Universals 4th gate?

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
??? I'm talking about Universal and how they've got a narrow group they're appealing to. My dad can do everything he wants to at WDW and at Disneyland except the Indiana Jones ride because it's too hard on his shoulder.

WDW has a ton of stuff across all age groups.
It is true that Universal isn't interested in going after the little diapered Davey and Pacemaker Pam demos. They are going after the demos that Disney ignores. You know people who expect their theme parks to have rides that move faster than a walking pace. The Disney demo thinks riding in a car going 58mph is a thrill ride.
 
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The Pho

Well-Known Member
It is true that Universal isn't interested in going after the little diapered Davey and Pacemaker Pam demos. They are going after the demos that Disney ignores. You know people who expect their theme parks to have rides that move faster than a walking pace. The Disney demo thinks riding in a car going 58mph is a thrill ride.
Universal doesn’t exactly target the thrill market either. They did just remove two thrill coasters in favor of a family coaster. And at least two of the four lands in the new park seem to be very family oriented. They absolutely want that family market.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Well-Known Member
Lots of good stuff in here...well, from everyone but the mayor of four corners 😂

I just have to reaffirm how stupid one stance is: that opinions can’t be “wrong”

What a ridiculous stance. If you make judgements based on false narratives, lack of understanding of the details, agendas that are immature...or you just lack wisdom or common sense...then you’re wrong.

But it is “yours to keep”. Just like if you store what your dog leaves in the park in a big glass jar.

I mean...it’s “yours”.:.:and nobody can take it away from you. You have all rights to it. But in the end it’s a jar of crap.
That’s what incorrect opinions are. Not “credibility” as they are increasingly being treated...especially by Disney fans.

Like yesterday: money is up even though attendance isn’t and the products are being peddled like used cars...more “premium experiences”.

That’s good, right? Wrong. Incorrect opinion. But we have to respect the insane?...I guess? 🤯
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Universal doesn’t exactly target the thrill market either. They did just remove two thrill coasters in favor of a family coaster. And at least two of the four lands in the new park seem to be very family oriented. They absolutely want that family market.
Hagrid's isn't a family coaster. I think that was the plan, but after management rode it they realized it is more intense than they expected and have backed off the "family coaster" label.



They are also building a thrill coaster in JP that will have multiple inversions and a 175' top hat element.

Here is Universal Parks and Resorts CEO Tom Williams thoughts: "The conversation also included Williams noting that Universal doesn’t have to compete against Disney and that “Disney owns the very young ones,” while explaining that Universal can be successful without having to pull in the numbers that Disney resorts do by focusing instead on the whole family."


Universal mostly focuses on the over 6 crowd. And catering more towards the teen/young adult crowd that is underserved by Disney. Disney is playing catch up with that demo by building 2 new thrill coasters now.

I personally think that's fine. Both resorts do what they do very well. It makes the Orlando market stronger and gives everybody options to fit their tastes.
 
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Tom P.

Well-Known Member
Disagree tremendously. I think the Star Wars hotel is going to flop. Normal adults don't want to LARP around a pretend spaceship for 3 days. The amount of people this thing is going to appeal to will be shockingly low. In the early days it may seem like a hit, but the target audience is quickly going to become exhausted and a couple things are likely to happen.

1. Discounts.
2. Shuttered.
I often disagree with the things you post, but in this case I am in 100% agreement. This project seems like a very bad idea and I think is doomed to failure.

Interestingly, I am probably in the target demographic for something like this. I grew up on the original Star Wars trilogy. I have been a sci-fi geek since I was young. Granted, I am more in the Star Trek camp than the Star Wars camp, but I do like them both. And yet I really have zero interest in this. Star Wars-themed things would attract me, yes. But I have no desire to go around a hotel I am staying at role-playing 24/7.

When you look at the number of potential customers who are both (a) interest in this type of 24/7 LARP experience and (b) financially able to afford it, I think the pool is very small.

Generally, I think Disney has vastly overestimated the potential market for anything with the name "Star Wars" on it. Yes, the original trilogy is beloved and ingrained in our pop culture. But Star Wars is not the kind of property that can sell anything and everything to the masses just because of the name.
 
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AimYourBrent

Well-Known Member
That's not actually an answer to the question: What is the benefit of expecting something other than what is offered? The question is a bit introspective, and forces those engaging in that kind of habitual behavior to view what they do with a critical eye, something that perhaps requires more maturity than some are willing to muster.

Yes, we do, but what makes anyone think that Disney hasn't already hit on the perfect mix for the guests that they're targeting?

I made the point a couple of weeks ago about how many guests are very happily spending most of their days walking around the World Showcase Lagoon eating food and drinking wine and taking in some live performances, walking through shops, etc. I made the point a couple of weeks ago that my family spends upward of 45 minutes in The Oasis and Discovery Island Trails at Animal Kingdom, while others are sprinting to FoP. Let's also mention the hour-long queues for meeting costumed characters. And so on.
There is a difference between anticipating the experience based on current reality and expectations for the future based on what’s already been demonstrated.

Or.

I know I’m not gonna walk into EPCOT in a few years and be able to go on Horizons. I hope that I can walk into EPCOT in a few years and be wowed by the new architecture, experiences, and atmosphere.
 

RustySpork

Oscar Mayer Memer
I often disagree with the things you post, but in this case I am in 100% agreement. This project seems like a very bad idea and I think is doomed to failure.

Interestingly, I am probably in the target demographic for something like this. I grew up on the original Star Wars trilogy. I have been a sci-fi geek since I was young. Granted, I am more in the Star Trek camp than the Star Wars camp, but I do like them both. And yet I really have zero interest in this. Star Wars-themed things would attract me, yes. But I have no idea to go around a hotel I am staying at role-playing 24/7.

When you look at the number of potential customers who are both (a) interest in this type of 24/7 LARP experience and (b) financially able to afford it, I think the pool is very small.

Generally, I think Disney has vastly overestimated the potential market for anything with the name "Star Wars" on it. Yes, the original trilogy is beloved and ingrained in our pop culture. But Star Wars is not the kind of property that can sell anything and everything to the masses just because of the name.
I was actually standing in a virtual line for this hotel because it had my name written all over it. Then I got pretty turned off of Star Wars in general because Disney oversaturated every market they could with it because that's what Disney does. It's not even the good stuff, it's just a regurgitated "new" trilogy that's (to me) little more than a search and replace of the original scripts. I have no interest what-so-ever in Galaxy's Edge or the new hotel.

..but I digress..
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
With the current parks, they are re-inventing at least 2 of them.

You don't need a 5th gate until the existing 4 are completely utilized.
This is true. And, really, if additional parks were the answer to crowd control, we'd already be there. The problem is the crowd at Magic Kingdom. No matter what else Disney has put out there, folks first and foremost associate the Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World. It is the park that is a "must do" for every visitor. It had around 7 million more visitors than Animal Kingdom, the next most visited park, in 2018 at WDW.

Until Disney has something that can pull the crowds away from Magic Kingdom, no other parks matter.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
Lots of good stuff in here...well, from everyone but the mayor of four corners 😂

I just have to reaffirm how stupid one stance is: that opinions can’t be “wrong”

What a ridiculous stance. If you make judgements based on false narratives, lack of understanding of the details, agendas that are immature...or you just lack wisdom or common sense...then you’re wrong.

But it is “yours to keep”. Just like if you store what your dog leaves in the park in a big glass jar.

I mean...it’s “yours”.:.:and nobody can take it away from you. You have all rights to it. But in the end it’s a jar of crap.
That’s what incorrect opinions are. Not “credibility” as they are increasingly being treated...especially by Disney fans.

Like yesterday: money is up even though attendance isn’t and the products are being peddled like used cars...more “premium experiences”.

That’s good, right? Wrong. Incorrect opinion. But we have to respect the insane?...I guess? 🤯
I agree that opinions can be wrong-it is easy for someone to correct someone else's opinion based on factual information. In the same vein, what some people can't seem to understand is that opinions aren't always fact-the only thing that is fact is the proven, factual information itself. This whole mindset of "This is what I think/believe, so it should be what everyone thinks/believes because what I think/believe is always 100% correct" drives me crazy. Logic and reason seem to be lost for a decent portion of our population.
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
I agree that opinions can be wrong-it is easy for someone to correct someone else's opinion based on factual information. In the same vein, what some people can't seem to understand is that opinions aren't always fact-the only thing that is fact is the proven, factual information itself. This whole mindset of "This is what I think/believe, so it should be what everyone thinks/believes because what I think/believe is always 100% correct" drives me crazy. Logic and reason seem to be lost for a decent portion of our population.
Perhaps this is splitting hairs, but even when the underlying facts are wrong, opinions are not technically right or wrong. Someone may change their opinion when they get new information, but that doesn't make the opinion "wrong." It just makes it a less informed opinion. One can argue that better informed opinions are more valuable than less informed ones. But that doesn't make them right or wrong.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
This is true. And, really, if additional parks were the answer to crowd control, we'd already be there. The problem is the crowd at Magic Kingdom. No matter what else Disney has put out there, folks first and foremost associate the Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World. It is the park that is a "must do" for every visitor. It had around 7 million more visitors than Animal Kingdom, the next most visited park, in 2018 at WDW.

Until Disney has something that can pull the crowds away from Magic Kingdom, no other parks matter.
Animal Kingdom has become the second best park and it’s not even close. Never thought I’d say that.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This is true. And, really, if additional parks were the answer to crowd control, we'd already be there. The problem is the crowd at Magic Kingdom. No matter what else Disney has put out there, folks first and foremost associate the Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World. It is the park that is a "must do" for every visitor. It had around 7 million more visitors than Animal Kingdom, the next most visited park, in 2018 at WDW.

Until Disney has something that can pull the crowds away from Magic Kingdom, no other parks matter.
The Magic Kingdom has the most attractions and longest operating hours. ”Boring” EPCOT Center had attendance nearly on par with the Magic Kingdom. Disney can pull people away but that would mean building out more capacity.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Well-Known Member
I agree that opinions can be wrong-it is easy for someone to correct someone else's opinion based on factual information. In the same vein, what some people can't seem to understand is that opinions aren't always fact-the only thing that is fact is the proven, factual information itself. This whole mindset of "This is what I think/believe, so it should be what everyone thinks/believes because what I think/believe is always 100% correct" drives me crazy. Logic and reason seem to be lost for a decent portion of our population.
It’s used to justify Disney constantly. “I think it’s worth it to ME”.

But that is wrong. Because worth is an inference of “value”, and if you pay $120 for 4 hours as opposed to $120 for 9 prior...it is not “worth it” on the scale of value.

From an academic perspective...that opinion is wrong. All the time.

And Disney preys on that...so they steer you towards that opinion with false equivalency or emotional advertisements.
Perhaps this is splitting hairs, but even when the underlying facts are wrong, opinions are not technically right or wrong. Someone may change their opinion when they get new information, but that doesn't make the opinion "wrong." It just makes it a less informed opinion. One can argue that better informed opinions are more valuable than less informed ones. But that doesn't make them right or wrong.
That is splitting hairs 😂

I get your point. What I’m talking about is the contention that a personal opinion cannot BE wrong because of “personal choice”

How dumb is that? We run into 100 instances a day of completely wrong, stupid personal opinions.
Animal Kingdom has become the second best park and it’s not even close. Never thought I’d say that.
That’s what it was designed to be...they just punted.
 
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Tom P.

Well-Known Member
It’s used to justify Disney constantly. “I think it’s worth it to ME”.

But that is wrong. Because worth is an inference of “value”, and if you pay $120 for 4 hours as opposed to $120 for 9 prior...it is not “worth it” on the scale of value.

From an academic perspective...that opinion is wrong. All the time.

And Disney preys on that...so they steer you towards that opinion with false equivalency or emotional advertisements.
Let me give you a hypothetical.

I am a night person. Always have been, always will be. I value the time in the Disney parks at night. You could not get me to go to a park at rope drop even if the ticket was free. No way I'm getting up that early on vacation.

So suppose Disney offered a ticket that ran from 6 a.m. - 6 p.m. for $100. And then they offered a ticket that ran from 6 p.m. - 2 a.m. for $200. The latter is 4 hours less than the former. You would tell me that it is wrong to prefer that ticket because of the value. But I would definitely buy the more expensive ticket. Because it is the one that matches my preferences.
 
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