Rumor What is everyone’s confidence level that a Villain’s land will happen?

[BrianLo]

I still think its sounds too fanboy dreamy... but Disney trotted this out on a stage. Not the other way around. And nothing from that Blue Sky session has been seemingly overtly canned, from what we know so far. Just aggressively shuffled.

There is a villains land project. Whether it comes to pass is TBD. I would say it has to present on stage though again this year to come to pass. If it doesn't, the project is ultimately not moving forward. Anything heavily rumoured and NOT presented on stage, or at least hinted at, is a cancelled project.

The one factor, if the teams were really stuck on this, is to continue to pitch that it could be a viable second viewing location for the fireworks. If designed with that in mind from the get go. I think that's a massive pitch that would make ops happy.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

By having it not be a single show building but instead a series of them. If you're in a dark forest, for instance, you don't need the ceilings to be that high - not if the "trees" are providing a lot of cover and you're getting "moonlight" shinning through here and there with most of it lit by "torches" and "candles" (and of course, black lights galore). put that more towards the front.

In other areas, if the ceilings are simply matte black and not lit, they can be made to seem a lot taller than they are with forced perspective used on the themed structures inside.

You don't have to enclose the entire area like it's a pavilion. It can all be broken up between smaller and bigger buildings some connected and some not.

The trick would be to avoid the sprawling open dead spaces that Galaxy's Edge is full of and use the slightly claustrophobic nature of feeling like you're a little confined to their advantage.

Splash Mountain Tiana's Bayou Aventure is a massive show building hiding in plain site in all guest facing directions - it can and has been done to a greater extent than would be needed for this. (actual attraction buildings aside)

... Not pretending it would be cheap to construct, though.

Good point! Idk if modern Imagineering would even think to go this route (cough cough Guardians Blue Cube), but I think it could work.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Ideally, they would lift an idea from Wizarding World and knockoff what Universal did in Diagon Alley with Knockturn Alley.

There could be LOTS of areas like this, largely essentially enclosed, with minimal ambient light and lots of black lighting and even with a little AC. They could make the entrance to these areas a seedy ally like Universal did, one could be a forest with a path that transitions from open, to heavy-ish tree cover to completely inside in a way that just makes it look and feel like you've gone to a dark place.

If they did all of this with the black lighting and paint like they do in the dark rides, they could have the creepy but also cartoonish effect and keep it family-friendly.

I mean, in a lot of ways, the company has a lot under their belts to pull this all off, already. It's basically trying to take what they do in dark rides in general and make that most of a whole land - have the outdoor areas be basically just ways to transition from one dark area to another where needed.

Make more of an effort to have the ceilings for these areas hidden or at least things like catwalks and pipes and lighting setups hidden than they have in a lot of their newer attractions and it could be both whimsical and immersive.

This would solve tons of sightline problems and allow them to make something in a smaller footprint feel larger than it really is, too by making the whole area intentionally convoluted and winding.

I don't know if the current group of people working in Imagineering are up to such a task or if leadership would be willing to spend for this but since there will be unfair direct comparisons made to Dark Universe, this is something Disney could capitalize on that Universal isn't currently doing in an expansive way.

I haven't been to Knockturn Alley but it is mostly indoors and air conditioned, right? I think that would be ideal but question Disney's willingness to shell out on AC (I have mixed feelings on the topic as I get that AC is not environmentally friendly, but in a sense "mass AC" is probably kinda like "mass transit" - lots of people can crank up the thermostat at home if they're visiting the parks.) That said, flagging summer attendance might help to convince them that they need to do something about the Florida heat. I'm open to straight-up AC areas or environmentally friendly (and for Disney, cheaper,) alternatives like good old fashioned shade - but one or the other needs to happen. Especially if we're talking Villain's Land, which by design should be dark.

On black light effects - I actually hope that Villain's Land, if it happens, has a more mature look to it. I think bold, bright colors and a "cartoony" style can be great for areas that cater to little kids, but presumably they aren't the target audience for a Villain's Land. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Dull Grey Greyness either, but I think they could do something with a cool, mystical feel to it.

On Imagineering - I have zero knowledge of how they system at Disney works, but from an outsider perspective, it does seem like they've been going through something like a Cambrian Era recently (throw out lots of new stuff, let natural selection decide what survives later). I'm probably in a minority but I actually really like that. Good for them. But at some point they probably do need to examine what works and what doesn't, narrow down, and find a communal focus. I feel like now is a natural time to do that, and hopefully we'll see that on upcoming projects.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I still think its sounds too fanboy dreamy... but Disney trotted this out on a stage. Not the other way around. And nothing from that Blue Sky session has been seemingly overtly canned, from what we know so far. Just aggressively shuffled.

There is a villains land project. Whether it comes to pass is TBD. I would say it has to present on stage though again this year to come to pass. If it doesn't, the project is ultimately not moving forward. Anything heavily rumoured and NOT presented on stage, or at least hinted at, is a cancelled project.

The one factor, if the teams were really stuck on this, is to continue to pitch that it could be a viable second viewing location for the fireworks. If designed with that in mind from the get go. I think that's a massive pitch that would make ops happy.

I was quite skeptical about this land initially, but the more I think about it (and the more I see other factors, like EU, unfold,) the more it seems like this might check a lot of boxes for Disney. I.e.:

- Appealing to an older age group (older kids / teens,) which can sometimes be a weak area for Disney compared to Universal (and vice versa, as Universal is building a park for littles in Texas)

- Gender neutral, not a "princess park" add-on but with appeal to both genders

- Huge opportunities for merch and food sales (Who wouldn't want Villain's themed snacks!) Also, if they added this at DL, which has no Epcot, it seems like an obvious place to build in a festival area.

- Super social media friendly. Oh, the selfie opportunities.

- Disney hasn't had a lot of new IP that's really taken off in the past few years. What was the last thing that really made a splash, Encanto? Everything else has been a sequel or live action remake. The villains are "new" in the sense that they haven't been utilized much in the parks in the past, and are also IP based, which seems to be a mandate at the moment.

 

[MrPromey]

I haven't been to Knockturn Alley but it is mostly indoors and air conditioned, right?

It is but like all of Diagon Alley, it is not a large place.

On black light effects - I actually hope that Villain's Land, if it happens, has a more mature look to it. I think bold, bright colors and a "cartoony" style can be great for areas that cater to little kids, but presumably they aren't the target audience for a Villain's Land. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Dull Grey Greyness either, but I think they could do something with a cool, mystical feel to it.

I think they could strike a balance. Black Lights is at least 2/3 the lighting in Haunted Mansion so it doesn't necessarily have to evoke a Whnnie the Pooh aesthetic with largely flat painted surfaces. I think I said cartoonish but what I meant was fantasy. Twisted knotty trees, larger-than-life vines (sort of like around Sir Mickey's and sort of like the old Briaer Patch but toned down just a little.)

On Imagineering - I have zero knowledge of how they system at Disney works, but from an outsider perspective, it does seem like they've been going through something like a Cambrian Era recently (throw out lots of new stuff, let natural selection decide what survives later). I'm probably in a minority but I actually really like that. Good for them. But at some point they probably do need to examine what works and what doesn't, narrow down, and find a communal focus. I feel like now is a natural time to do that, and hopefully we'll see that on upcoming projects.

I have no insider insights but my understanding is that they're ranks have been diminished but obviously, they're having to ramp up with the things they want to do so time will tell.

Anyway, my idea is more of a dream than anything - I don't expect them to try that hard with it.

 

[BrianLo]

- Disney hasn't had a lot of new IP that's really taken off in the past few years. What was the last thing that really made a splash, Encanto? Everything else has been a sequel or live action remake. The villains are "new" in the sense that they haven't been utilized much in the parks in the past, and are also IP based, which seems to be a mandate at the moment.

Ties in really nicely to Halloween and I think ultimately Halloween season turns into a two parter for events. Villainous summer after hours parties (June-Aug) segueing into Halloween. Aka Halloween parties half the year, but a 'unique' one that actually drags people to the resort in the summer when they are having increasing attendance issues.

It's these type of pitches that get management interested, if the project team is playing their cards correctly.

 

[MrPromey]

EU would be old news by the time this finally opens, in 5+ years.

The wait queue for Hagrid's Motorbike Adventure has entered the chat...

 

[MrPromey]

The one factor, if the teams were really stuck on this, is to continue to pitch that it could be a viable second viewing location for the fireworks. If designed with that in mind from the get go. I think that's a massive pitch that would make ops happy.

They'd have to come up with a new show though that didn't revolve around the front of the castle.

In actuallity, if they hadn't gone that route, they'd still have other viewing areas for the fireworks, today. Front and center was always the preferred spot but since most of the pyro in the past was actually behind the park, all of Fantasyland was also a good place to see a lot of it in the past. When they started doing lower pyro closer up, that changed a little but now with so much of the focus being on projections, they really pushed themselves into a corner... but that seems to be what they've been choosing to do with other shows like the ones they do in Hollywood Studios, too so for whatever reason, stuffing people into one area like sardines seems to be by design for reasons I can't fathom. I mean, they even kind of tried to do that with Harmonious by making only one spot an ideal viewing area for that one.

 

[BrianLo]

They'd have to come up with a new show though that didn't revolve around the front of the castle.

In actuallity, if they hadn't gone that route, they'd still have other viewing areas for the fireworks, today. Front and center was always the preferred spot but since most of the pyro in the past was actually behind the park, all of Fantasyland was also a good place to see a lot of it in the past. When they started doing lower pyro closer up, that changed a little but now with so much of the focus being on projections, they really pushed themselves into a corner... but that seems to be what they've been choosing to do with other shows like the ones they do in Hollywood Studios, too so for whatever reason, stuffing people into one area like sardines seems to be by design for reasons I can't fathom. I mean, they even kind of tried to do that with Harmonious by making only one spot an ideal viewing area for that one.

Oh, I should clarify, I'm being quite presumptuous that Villains land also includes a castle. Namely Maleficent's.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Ties in really nicely to Halloween and I think ultimately Halloween season turns into a two parter for events. Villainous summer after hours parties (June-Aug) segueing into Halloween. Aka Halloween parties half the year, but a 'unique' one that actually drags people to the resort in the summer when they are having increasing attendance issues.

It's these type of pitches that get management interested, if the project team is playing their cards correctly.

Consumer spending on Halloween in the US is very high, especially when you factor in the fact that the only thing you're obligated to buy at Halloween is candy for trick-or-treaters (As opposed to December holidays, where gift giving, office parties, and family entertaining is usually involved.) In a big picture way, I think many cultures traditionally have a festival around that time of year to celebrate "the harvest" (sometimes with supernatural themes, as in Day of the Dead and Halloween). Long story short - I think people really really like pumpkin season, and a Villain's Land could totally be a part of that. Let's pack up, head to Orlando, and present our pitch, lol!

 

[MrPromey]

Oh, I should clarify, I'm being quite presumptuous that Villains land also includes a castle. Namely Maleficent's.

I suspect if they were to do something like that, it would be smaller in scale than Sleeping Beauty's castle in DL with a ton of forced perspective to make it look larger, especially from a little bit of distance.

I say that both because I can't see them spending to make it larger unless it's hiding a show building behind it and because they obviously don't want it to compete with Cinderella's castle for attention and grandeur when it comes to sightlines (but having it visible in the distance in Fantasyland would be awesome since it would be the right size and distance to actually make the effect work in a way Beast's Castle never will).

Maybe that'd be enough, though. I mean, they use IASW's facade like that in DL and it's big but it's not Cinderella's castle big. Throw up some local pyro on a smaller scale to mimic what they do with the castle today and at the same time, have people a lot closer to the bigger stuff behind that's seen by everying which would probably offset that - could work.

If they were smart, they'd maybe even do an alternate version of the projections and audio and different colors of the low stuff with the same timing so it would be a second experience, all together.

 

[BrianLo]

I suspect if they were to do something like that, it would be smaller in scale than Sleeping Beauty's castle in DL with a ton of forced perspective to make it look larger, especially from a little bit of distance.

I say that both because I can't see them spending to make it larger unless it's hiding a show building behind it and because they obviously don't want it to compete with Cinderella's castle for attention and grandeur.

Maybe that'd be enough, though. I mean, they use IASW's facade like that in DL and it's big but it's not Cinderella's castle big. Throw up some local pyro on a smaller scale to mimic what they do with the castle today and at the same time, have people a lot closer to the bigger stuff which would probably offset that - could work.

If they were smart, they'd maybe even do an alternate version of the projections and audio and different colors of hte low stuff with the same timing so it would be a second experience, all together.

Ya exactly. They are doing it in Batuu at DL with its own music loop now. So it's certainly not a thought that escapes management. I'd expect a bit grander than New Fantasyland for whatever facade they choose. Tokyo's beast castle demonstrates they are still willing to build something reasonably sized that could have reasonable projection mapping. Whether that's Maleficent, Bald Mountain, or both.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I don't get why Villiansland wouldn't work today. It doesn't need to be scary at all. It just showcases other IP.

They sell villain merchandise at DHS, and they have made how many from-the-baddies-point-of-view movies.

If not ‘scary’, what’s the hook for this land? Maleficent and Hades? Most of the other major villains are already repped somewhere else.

 

[Bocabear]

I would imagine a good blend of light and fright...Like Haunted mansion but probably much more cartoony.
I's Disney...it won't be very scary...they know their audiences...I am hoping for lots of great design and eye candy...The level of detail in Fantasy Springs....

 

[ZachPL]

The wait queue for Hagrid's Motorbike Adventure has entered the chat...

universal is working on fixing this as we speak, expanding the maintenance bay to hopefully consistantly run the intended 10 trains

 

[Moth]

There's been proposals for this land at DHS and MK with budgets and everything but no "GO!' sign. But they're serious about this happening eventually internally.

If this shows up at D23, I'll be very shocked if they announce a park that'd house it and I expect more BlueSky involving it.

This post is more a recap of what we know but, just throwing all cards on the table.

 

[Streetway]

There's been proposals for this land at DHS and MK with budgets and everything but no "GO!' sign. But they're serious about this happening eventually internally.

If this shows up at D23, I'll be very shocked if they announce a park that'd house it and I expect more BlueSky involving it.

Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studio execs will settle who gets Villains in Hell in a Cell at
Wrestlemania.

 

[tissandtully]

They'd have to come up with a new show though that didn't revolve around the front of the castle.

After having just been to DL a week or so ago and watching "Fire of the Rising Moons", which is just the Pixar fireworks seen from Galaxy's Edge, it was really cool. Has its own original character, own soundtrack that is mostly timed to the fireworks. They could make it work pretty easily. The Pixar show also relies on projections quite a bit, which is a detriment cause of the small castle, though they have other places they project on too.

 

[MrPromey]

universal is working on fixing this as we speak, expanding the maintenance bay to hopefully consistantly run the intended 10 trains

Any idea how many typically run at this point?

I had no idea it wasn't already at full capacity.

Curious how much that'll put a dent in the demand vs. supply situation, there.

 

[Surferboy567]

There's been proposals for this land at DHS and MK with budgets and everything but no "GO!' sign. But they're serious about this happening eventually internally.

If this shows up at D23, I'll be very shocked if they announce a park that'd house it and I expect more BlueSky involving it.

This post is more a recap of what we know but, just throwing all cards on the table.

Really hoping it’s not another blue sky thing. That’s really not what is needed right now.

I’m optimistic for D23