MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more!
They need WAY more garbage cans for us to put our plates on when we're eating!
Nothing like trash-can dining in one of the top tourist destinations in there world, is there?
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What is EPCOT now?
- Thread starter Disgruntled Walt
- Start date
They need WAY more garbage cans for us to put our plates on when we're eating!
Nothing like trash-can dining in one of the top tourist destinations in there world, is there?
Epcot is now a permanent world's fair, with both educational opportunities and rides for thrill-seekers (such as they are). Disney, unfortunately, can't win. They need rides like Guardians and Frozen to keep people coming through the turnstiles, and the festivals to draw seasonal crowds and the local dollar. When they do add something that harks back to the original mission of EPCOT, like Moana's Journey Into Water, they are needlessly criticized even before the attraction opens.
My view is that they should focus on World Showcase by adding more attractions and, hopefully, more countries. For heaven's sake, bring Switzerland and the Matterhorn to Florida.
My view is that they should focus on World Showcase by adding more attractions and, hopefully, more countries. For heaven's sake, bring Switzerland and the Matterhorn to Florida.
One fellow guest during Food and Wine festival brought his own checkerboard tablecloth to put over his tabletop garbage can for better presentation while eating and drinking while other guests deposited their waste in the can.Couldn't agree more!
They need WAY more garbage cans for us to put our plates on when we're eating!
Nothing like trash-can dining in one of the top tourist destinations in there world, is there?
I miss the outdoor entertainment Mo' Rockin at Morocco with the eye candy belly dancer who invited the little ones on stage to dance with her.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
In a word "eclectic".
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
This is the sort of stuff that might embarrass management if they had any shame.
My guess is they'd look at it as proof they don't need to provide high top tables that would cost money and might compete with the retail space for these events.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
It's, ah, not there being any sort of edutainment aspect to the Moana thing people are taking issue with in that thread - not even remotely.
Cowboy Steve
Well-Known Member
Totally agree here. Problem now is technology has progressed to a point where by the time you intigrate it into something to interact or educate with, it is outdated. I remember the very first place I saw a motion detector automatic door opener was at EPCOT. Prior to that most, if not all, automatic doors were activated by stepping on the pad in front of the door (see Toy Story 2 and Al's Toy Barn). We take that stuff for granted now, but in 1982, it was almost miraculous lol.
A random collection of movie IP shoehorned in with near-year-round festivals focused on maximizing food and alcoholic beverage sales with a couple of stalwarts left from the park's original inspirational and aspirational beginnings.
Smiley/OCD
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%! Plus the fact that leading companies don't want to showcase technology in the works for fear of the IP getting stolen…
mightynine
Well-Known Member
Magic Kingdom’s bonus features.
chrisbarry
Active Member
I’d rather walk around Epcot today than just about anywhere else on Earth. Loved it 20 years ago. Still love it today.
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
Best post of the day!
osian
Well-Known Member
This is long...
It used to be easy to answer the question "Why is EPCOT?". You just go back to the dedication plaque in the entrance plaza, this is its raison d'etre, its mission statement, its remit:
It came from Walt's ideas that not only underpinned his vision for EPCOT and Progress City but that which was evident from the conception of Disneyland, and even before. His fascination/obsession with technology, industry, ways of living past, present and future, social and cultural behaviour, transport, family life, who we are and where we're going. After his passing, imagineers took those concepts to create a new kind of theme park. Yes, copying existing world's fairs and expos, that Disney had already been part of in the past and where pavilions that explored those concepts had already been built and eventually found their way into Disneyland. So this is not an Epcot-only thing, it's what Disney has done from 1955 and before, it's just that Epcot took the concept and ran with it.
You do wonder whether current Disney management has ever read that plaque and, if they have, whether they feel a tingle of guilt or betrayal of the original concept.
No, I don't like the IP intrusion. But I'm not against it, and I'm not against change. It's just that change has to make things even better. Not to make it worse or go against the grain.
I understand why some people say that Remy's Ratatouille Adventure fits into the France pavilion, and Frozen Ever After fits into the Norway pavilion, and Nemo fits into the Seas pavilion. But they're wrong! The purpose of the France pavilion is to showcase the country of France. The Remy attraction doesn't do that. It showcases the movie and it tells a story about the characters in the movie. So it clashes with the pavilion and doesn't fit there. A fitting inclusion of the characters would have been if they had narrated or been the hosts of a new version of Impressions de France, or if the Rat ride itself was a rat's eye trip around French landmarks. And as for Beauty and The Beast Sing-Along, I'm not quite sure anything can save that.
Similarly Frozen Ever After. That's an even more tenuous link as it's not even set in Norway. But even if you say it's "similar" to Norway, it still showcases the movie and the story of the characters. It doesn't tell Norway's story.
And as a UK citizien, in Wales, I'm really quite upset that it seems my pavilion could be converted into a Mary Poppins tribute! Is that really how I want my country represented and showcased to the rest of the world? [There was an earlier post in this thread about The American Adventure...I mean, a similar thing would be if that building was gutted and replaced with a Huckleberry Fin meet 'n greet. He's an American character after all, so he fits there surely??]
A fitting use of the Guardians of the Galaxy IP would have been if in Cosmic Rewind they took us deliberately on a time-travel trip to the beginning of time to show us and explain what the Big Bang is and how it created the universe, with an exploration of the universe coming as part of the ride. Instead of this stupid space-God--thief story. Granted, the Big Bang is is sort-of explained in the first pre-show room, if you're "lucky" enough to be in a long line and waiting in that area and continually looking up at the screen on the ceiling and paying attentionm to every word, but in reality the most people take away from this ride at the moment is the thrill of anticipating what song they're going to get and collecting all six of them. Did the amazing Disney storytelling work and demonstrate to use our place in the universe and how we came to be? What or whose story is this attraction telling?
The Journey of Water, inspired by Moana. Well...the inspired-by bit tells us everything. This attraction didn't start with concept of showing us the water cycle as per classic Epcot attraction, but it started out by looking at ways of incorporating Moana's story into an attraction and making a connection, even a tenuous connection, between Moana's relationship with water and how on earth they could wangle this into an Epcoty attraction. The "education" bit comes from just reading the message boards, the attraction itself doesn't stand alone in telling the story of water, it actually tells Moana's story in how she is able to communicate with water. Like Cosmic Rewind where you have to listen to the lecture at the beginning to get the education bit, then you go onto the completely separate entertainment bit. The art of storytelling has been lost.
And I think the word edutainment is overplayed and Epcot gets bogged down by the term which is almost always used negatively. Disney has always been about learning as you have fun, it's on the dedication plaques for Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom as part of their remit, and it's what Disney has always done. Remember True-Life Adventures.
So, why is EPCOT now? It's clear the direction has changed (for the better or worse?), and it's a gradual change so yes, it's a mish-mash of conflicting aims. But with each refresh and refurb, the original dedication plaque becomes more irrelevant. By replacing just a few words, you get a truer picture of why Epcot is now, what its purpose is now:
Epcot's purpose now is to showcase and advertise Disney's products that exist outside of the theme parks, that are in the movie and streaming divisions of the company. The "human achievements" bit, technology and enterprise, shaping a future world, have been dropped. It's now self-referential, it's all about Disney and re-telling the same stories over and over again to cement the movies and characters in our minds. It's about marketing the Disney brand. Why is there a Marvel shop in Epcot??
Was Harmonious really for the 50th only or was it originally intended to be the long-running Epcot show? It didn't celebrate Epcot at all did it? It celebrated Disney movies and songs, loosely tied to Epcot's World Showcase by forcing natives of those countries to sing the Disney songs. It didn't even celebrate the 50th anniversary of WDW. It was literally all about Disney movies.
It used to be easy to answer the question "Why is EPCOT?". You just go back to the dedication plaque in the entrance plaza, this is its raison d'etre, its mission statement, its remit:
It came from Walt's ideas that not only underpinned his vision for EPCOT and Progress City but that which was evident from the conception of Disneyland, and even before. His fascination/obsession with technology, industry, ways of living past, present and future, social and cultural behaviour, transport, family life, who we are and where we're going. After his passing, imagineers took those concepts to create a new kind of theme park. Yes, copying existing world's fairs and expos, that Disney had already been part of in the past and where pavilions that explored those concepts had already been built and eventually found their way into Disneyland. So this is not an Epcot-only thing, it's what Disney has done from 1955 and before, it's just that Epcot took the concept and ran with it.
You do wonder whether current Disney management has ever read that plaque and, if they have, whether they feel a tingle of guilt or betrayal of the original concept.
No, I don't like the IP intrusion. But I'm not against it, and I'm not against change. It's just that change has to make things even better. Not to make it worse or go against the grain.
I understand why some people say that Remy's Ratatouille Adventure fits into the France pavilion, and Frozen Ever After fits into the Norway pavilion, and Nemo fits into the Seas pavilion. But they're wrong! The purpose of the France pavilion is to showcase the country of France. The Remy attraction doesn't do that. It showcases the movie and it tells a story about the characters in the movie. So it clashes with the pavilion and doesn't fit there. A fitting inclusion of the characters would have been if they had narrated or been the hosts of a new version of Impressions de France, or if the Rat ride itself was a rat's eye trip around French landmarks. And as for Beauty and The Beast Sing-Along, I'm not quite sure anything can save that.
Similarly Frozen Ever After. That's an even more tenuous link as it's not even set in Norway. But even if you say it's "similar" to Norway, it still showcases the movie and the story of the characters. It doesn't tell Norway's story.
And as a UK citizien, in Wales, I'm really quite upset that it seems my pavilion could be converted into a Mary Poppins tribute! Is that really how I want my country represented and showcased to the rest of the world? [There was an earlier post in this thread about The American Adventure...I mean, a similar thing would be if that building was gutted and replaced with a Huckleberry Fin meet 'n greet. He's an American character after all, so he fits there surely??]
A fitting use of the Guardians of the Galaxy IP would have been if in Cosmic Rewind they took us deliberately on a time-travel trip to the beginning of time to show us and explain what the Big Bang is and how it created the universe, with an exploration of the universe coming as part of the ride. Instead of this stupid space-God--thief story. Granted, the Big Bang is is sort-of explained in the first pre-show room, if you're "lucky" enough to be in a long line and waiting in that area and continually looking up at the screen on the ceiling and paying attentionm to every word, but in reality the most people take away from this ride at the moment is the thrill of anticipating what song they're going to get and collecting all six of them. Did the amazing Disney storytelling work and demonstrate to use our place in the universe and how we came to be? What or whose story is this attraction telling?
The Journey of Water, inspired by Moana. Well...the inspired-by bit tells us everything. This attraction didn't start with concept of showing us the water cycle as per classic Epcot attraction, but it started out by looking at ways of incorporating Moana's story into an attraction and making a connection, even a tenuous connection, between Moana's relationship with water and how on earth they could wangle this into an Epcoty attraction. The "education" bit comes from just reading the message boards, the attraction itself doesn't stand alone in telling the story of water, it actually tells Moana's story in how she is able to communicate with water. Like Cosmic Rewind where you have to listen to the lecture at the beginning to get the education bit, then you go onto the completely separate entertainment bit. The art of storytelling has been lost.
And I think the word edutainment is overplayed and Epcot gets bogged down by the term which is almost always used negatively. Disney has always been about learning as you have fun, it's on the dedication plaques for Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom as part of their remit, and it's what Disney has always done. Remember True-Life Adventures.
So, why is EPCOT now? It's clear the direction has changed (for the better or worse?), and it's a gradual change so yes, it's a mish-mash of conflicting aims. But with each refresh and refurb, the original dedication plaque becomes more irrelevant. By replacing just a few words, you get a truer picture of why Epcot is now, what its purpose is now:
Epcot's purpose now is to showcase and advertise Disney's products that exist outside of the theme parks, that are in the movie and streaming divisions of the company. The "human achievements" bit, technology and enterprise, shaping a future world, have been dropped. It's now self-referential, it's all about Disney and re-telling the same stories over and over again to cement the movies and characters in our minds. It's about marketing the Disney brand. Why is there a Marvel shop in Epcot??
Was Harmonious really for the 50th only or was it originally intended to be the long-running Epcot show? It didn't celebrate Epcot at all did it? It celebrated Disney movies and songs, loosely tied to Epcot's World Showcase by forcing natives of those countries to sing the Disney songs. It didn't even celebrate the 50th anniversary of WDW. It was literally all about Disney movies.
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Smiley/OCD
Well-Known Member
I understand your displeasure with Epcot, BUT no one said the UK pavilion was being gutted to make way for Mary Poppins…she’s being added TO the pavilion the same way Ratatouille was ADDED to the France pavilion…out of the IP’s that have beef added so far, I’m least happy with FEA only because I really liked the darkness of Maelstrom.
Unfortunately in 2023 and beyond, IP is going to be incorporated into Epcot whether we embrace it or not. If it’s done tastefully and with tact, I don’t have a problem with it.
Unfortunately in 2023 and beyond, IP is going to be incorporated into Epcot whether we embrace it or not. If it’s done tastefully and with tact, I don’t have a problem with it.
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eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
It's a themed vacation destination where people have fun. Why does it have to be anything more than that
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Does anyone really think a Pavillion is a literal representation of the country??
First let me say I didn't go to Disney in the 70s and 80s so it may be a point of not missing what I never had , I think the mission statement is still a bit accurate.
Epcot at least for my family still entertains, informs and inspires.
In the 80's (from what I remember as a child) the Pavilions were more of a "hey, come visit us" travel brochure for each country. I specifically remember the Mexico boat ride as one big commercial to come visit. It was awesome though. I distinctly remember eating at Alfredo's in Italy and the restaurant that was in France at the time. And my dad making us watch the movie in the round in China and I remember I didn't want to stand.
Now with the internet and youtube videos and everything at our fingertips for research, countries don't need to advertise themselves to get people to visit. Of course the World Showcase isn't going to have the same cultural meaning as it once did. Americans travel more to those countries than back in the 80s. It's a "disneyfied" representation of a country where you can taste the food, see/buy some of the products you'd find if visiting, hear the music and also learn about the country. That's still a good time in our book.
So I think having Remy in France is perfectly fine. It's the France Pavilion, the movie took place in Paris, kids (and some adults) love it and it doesn't take away from the rest of the Pavilion.
Figment was better back in the 80s although I remember mostly playing in the Pavilion afterwards. I loved Spaceship Earth, Living With the Land, World of Motion and Horizons. Thankfully the first 2 are still there and just as amazing. And honestly, I also love Soarin' and Remy now just as much as I remember loving rides as a kid.
I know the Communicore buildings were there, but honestly, I couldn't tell you anything that was in them, I just don't remember. I'll ask my dad and see what he remembers.
And I'll tell you what else, only from watching the video, but I know if I was experiencing Journey of Water as a child, it would definitely stay in my head as a memory like the play area did after the Figment ride.
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