What is Disney doing to its customer life cycle?

[SteveAZee]

It's interesting. I'm here now and you wouldn't believe how many folks I talked to have zero problem with Genie +. It's currently 90°and humid almost every one U chatted up about genie + said they would pay ANYTHING not to stand in line
Now granted I'm not sure fully understand the new system but I expected this massive backlash to it, like I read here. Totally understand this is super unscientific

Interesting. Are they people you're talking with in the parks or at the hotel? Does it seem like most people are familiar with what G+ is and how it replaces the free FP+ system? It seems like a big annoyance for people is that there was something free that's now replaced by and arguably worse said system.

I guess I'm just thinking that many people with little historical knowledge but are sweating it out in long lines would opt for a paid option if it gets them to the front of the line quickly.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Interesting. Are they people you're talking with in the parks or at the hotel? Does it seem like most people are familiar with what G+ is and how it replaces the free FP+ system? It seems like a big annoyance for people is that there was something free that's now replaced by and arguably worse said system.

I guess I'm just thinking that many people with little historical knowledge but are sweating it out in long lines would opt for a paid option if it gets them to the front of the line quickly.

I'm having lunch in MK. The conversation hasn't covered that it use to be free. Most have 2 or 3 small kids, and standing in a 50 minute line at dwarf mine train sweating so it could be frustration rearing it's ugly head

 

[SteveAZee]

I'm having lunch in MK. The conversation hasn't covered that it use to be free. Most have 2 or 3 small kids, and standing in a 50 minute line at dwarf mine train sweating so it could be frustration rearing it's ugly head

There's financial liberation in that there perspiration.

 

[Goofyernmost]

For me, Disney has always been a place that created memories. Memories of spending time there as a kid with my parents and grandparents (who have all passed). I was invested. And I wanted to share that experience with my kids. Thus, investing some more into making new memories. The nostalgia for things like Toad, Horizons, World of Motion etc. was nice - but it wasn't the primary motivating factor.

The next generation of Disney guests will not have the attachment nor the investment in the brand the way the last generation did. I think that is the danger to Disney.

That generation that you are speaking about is already in their 20's and were not, for the most part, shown the excitement of Disney parks that my kids experienced both from me and their friends. My children on their own made it a one time family trip, partially because of the cost, but also because they did not find the joy in it that we did. As a small child it is an exciting thing to be part of but, small children have both short and inaccurate memories that do not carry forward over the almost two decades it takes to become an adult and the ability to make the decision on their own to attend. The didn't go much, if at all, with their parents and never really heard much about it. There are a few stragglers that are "half generations" that did but it is a much smaller group. They heard about the movies (i.e. Frozen, Cars, etc.) just like preceding generations, but those were non-reality exposures, enjoyed but not really any indication of what a theme park would be like.

Just a little evaluation when considering the people that became almost addicted to Disney from 1955 to 1980 were Boomers. Subsequent generations were the ones that were met with high prices and the, shake every cent possible out of the pockets of Guests, Disney attitudes. They simply went less and figured that if they owed their children a trip, one would do nicely because they, themselves had not drunk enough of the Kool-Aid to make it anymore then the one.

 

[Greg in TN]

all I can say is that I've been on this forum for 9 or 10 years. we've been saying that for 9-10 years.

We've said a lot of things for a lot of years, here--from guest satisfaction to attraction maintenance, etc. But right now it's all the "little" up-charges for items that used to be included, or "at no extra cost." In my opinion, the extra costs (or, nickle-&-diming-people-to-death) have accelerated recently, and serve to highlight the other problems that have been discussed over the years.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So when do customers react en mass? Short answer: probably never. Even during a pandemic when half the parks offerings were discontinued for the same price and you had to wear a mask all day, people came. Changes will happen, people will come and go, but for almost 70 years Disney seems to know how to run their parks in a way that balances guests/money. And if people decide it’s not worth it to them anymore, other people will take their place.

It was balance once. In fact, it was leaning strongly toward the guests. No where else could you get that much entertainment in one day for just under $100.00. That is up until recently. Now it isn't even able to be estimated as to how much it will cost to go there if you want the whole experience. The pendulum of balance has shifted completely in the favor of Disney. What used to be is no longer. I think they have over done it, and the pandemic has fueled the current popularity because people have been so idle for so long.

Everyone keeps saying “new generations won’t have the same connection to Disney as we did”. Have you seen Instagram? Tiktok? Selfies in the parks? YouTube streams? Younger generations are just as engulfed, maybe even more so, in the brand as older generations are, it’s just in a different way.

Those social networks are very small compared to actual populations. Just because you see what seem to be a lot of participation on them, you have to realize that any given participation is probably less then one hour of entries into any single park. Not enough to pay the bills but if you are part of them then it seems like the support is huge. Just this board itself has a very large contingency of unwavering Disney Fans, but if you took every single person participating on this board you would have less then one days attendance to one park at WDW. There are still a large number of people that go there, but even here you find that many are not going as often as they once did. That is no small thing.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

WDW is targeting the "once and done", high disposable income demographic while maximizing net margin through commoditization of offerings with digitization of the experience. The digitization of experience creates an illusion of a customized individual experience.

The demographics don’t support that approach…However.

bur it’s not like the ceo is a cutthroat that would try to cash out quickly - so no worries there

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

all I can say is that I've been on this forum for 9 or 10 years. we've been saying that for 9-10 years.

That’s because they’ve bought their way out of recessions since the crash of 2008…scoreboard, Liz

It's interesting. I'm here now and you wouldn't believe how many folks I talked to have zero problem with Genie +. It's currently 90°and humid almost every one U chatted up about genie + said they would pay ANYTHING not to stand in line
Now granted I'm not sure fully understand the new system but I expected this massive backlash to it, like I read here. Totally understand this is super unscientific

To be fair…no one has ever seen the genie yet. So a lot of abstract analysis.

 

[Goofyernmost]

To be fair…no one has ever seen the genie yet. So a lot of abstract analysis.

Absolutely, all they know about it is that you can buy a FP and it seems affordable. The rest of the details are too abstract to really understand it right now. FP is the focus, pretty clever really.

 

[eliza61nyc]

That’s because they’ve bought their way out of recessions since the crash of 2008…scoreboard, Liz

To be fair…no one has ever seen the genie yet. So a lot of abstract analysis.

Oh absolutely and again this was totally unscientific BUT I also don't discount the power of emotions coupled with convenience. Heck it's how the old guy and I actually got in the habit of renting a car. The first time I didn't have to trudge back to the FW cabins in the heat with 3 minions after a long day in the park, we were hooked. I'd eat Ramen noodles for a month to budget in the cost.
Sure it's a lot of abstract but what won't be an abstract is how they felt today waiting in "surface of the sun" heat. Now they've got the company waiving a "magic wand" to remove that??

 

[eliza61nyc]

That’s because they’ve bought their way out of recessions since the crash of 2008…scoreboard, Liz

To be fair…no one has ever seen the genie yet. So a lot of abstract analysis.

Lol to quote the great philosopher Vin Diesel " Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning "
Rarely is the reason "why" you got the success remembered or cared about to John q. Public. Pretty much why wer'e still stuck with the Bob C comedy show.

 

[BeentoallDParks]

Lol to quote the great philosopher Vin Diesel " Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning "
Rarely is the reason "why" you got the success remembered or cared about to John q. Public. Pretty much why wer'e still stuck with the Bob C comedy show.

Well, to invoke the Greek king Pyrrhus of Epirus, there’s also something called a Pyrrhic victory, which is a win that costs you so much in resources and goodwill to attain that you no longer have enough resources to win the next battle.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Well, to invoke the Greek king Pyrrhus of Epirus, there’s also something called a Pyrrhic victory, which is a win that costs you so much in resources and goodwill to attain that you no longer have enough resources to win the next battle.

Very true but like I said, we've been predicting the supposedly comeuppance of Disney for AT least the 9 years I've been in this play yard. So if I had to pick a side for the next battle......

Of course any thing is possible but what we tend to forget is that while we old timers might be up in arms, Disney is cultivating new fans and like I said the people I spoke with were very happy.
Now I just got back from a 10 day trip and yes planning my next which unfortunately is not until 2023. There were some things I wish had not changed ( illuminations in Epcot) but others I loved (rise of the resistance). Will Genie+ change my opinion? Who knows.

But my crystal ball has been out of wack for quite a while. I will say that these new changes have been widely panned. Across social media platforms folks have been calling out Disney on their greedy practices and some times bad publicity can do wonders

 

[Goofyernmost]

Very true but like I said, we've been predicting the supposedly comeuppance of Disney for AT least the 9 years I've been in this play yard. So if I had to pick a side for the next battle......

Of course any thing is possible but what we tend to forget is that while we old timers might be up in arms, Disney is cultivating new fans and like I said the people I spoke with were very happy.
Now I just got back from a 10 day trip and yes planning my next which unfortunately is not until 2023. There were some things I wish had not changed ( illuminations in Epcot) but others I loved (rise of the resistance). Will Genie+ change my opinion? Who knows.

But my crystal ball has been out of wack for quite a while. I will say that these new changes have been widely panned. Across social media platforms folks have been calling out Disney on their greedy practices and some times bad publicity can do wonders

What you say is true in the sense that we are all just speculating. Partially out of concern, partially out of confusion and partially out of knowing that there is a limit to everything. Yes, like myself, we have been predicting that at some point the wall will appear. I know I don't have any idea when, but my experience in life tells me that it is closer now then it ever has been in the time that I have been a Disney Fan. I don't want to see it happen and I certainly didn't want it to affect me right now when I'm retired and have lots of idol time to do what was once my favorite thing to do, but my part of the story has happened and come to an end.

I have money but since I don't have a way to replenish what I spend anymore I cannot responsibly spend it. I look at my Quicken account and see that I have spent approximately $35K as a single person going there as a solo since 2003. Right now I wish I had that back. I know that is just my story, but I can't help but thinking that I am not the only one affected. I have stated over and over that the downfall isn't in the immediate future, but I cannot help but think that a lot of the massive success of the Disney Company is the result of the actions and the memory of Walt Disney. The boomers are the last group that remember him as a live person. When we are gone or pushed aside, that will have at least some affect on the company when we are all gone or unable physically go to the place. Those coattails are old and tattered but amazingly still holding on by those threads for over 50 years. How much longer can they do it.

 

[eliza61nyc]

What you say is true in the sense that we are all just speculating. Partially out of concern, partially out of confusion and partially out of knowing that there is a limit to everything. Yes, like myself, we have been predicting that at some point the wall will appear. I know I don't have any idea when, but my experience in life tells me that it is closer now then it ever has been in the time that I have been a Disney Fan. I don't want to see it happen and I certainly didn't want it to affect me right now when I'm retired and have lots of idol time to do what was once my favorite thing to do, but my part of the story has happened and come to an end.

I have money but since I don't have a way to replenish what I spend anymore I cannot responsibly spend it. I look at my Quicken account and see that I have spent approximately $35K as a single person going there as a solo since 2003. Right now I wish I had that back. I know that is just my story, but I can't help but thinking that I am not the only one affected. I have stated over and over that the downfall isn't in the immediate future, but I cannot help but think that a lot of the massive success of the Disney Company is the result of the actions and the memory of Walt Disney. The boomers are the last group that remember him as a live person. When we are gone or pushed aside, that will have at least some affect on the company when we are all gone or unable physically go to the place. Those coattails are old and tattered but amazingly still holding on by those threads for over 50 years. How much longer can they do it.

This is all speculation, lol I know nothing.

Very True. but I wonder how much they are even worried about the boomer generation?? you are right, we're getting older the things we remember fondly are not the things the younger generation values. lol, my young adult children remind me of that all the time. One big example is work attitude. LOL when I was a kid/young adult people got jobs with good companies and stayed for their entire work life. I just retired after 33 years with the same company. My sons think that is insane, they fully expect to have 5 or 6 different jobs.

Back in the 60's and 70's the companies success came from what 2 streams. fast forward to now where a large chunk of the companies success comes from it's media outlets. I also wonder how much of the park profit is from old return visitors vs. the young family who may only come once or twice in their life time. I still go and stay on site but I think disney knows, I'm not the big spender. I don't buy souvenirs, I don't do character meals. been there done that. Now go back to my first visit wit my kids and hubby. We brought mickey ears, we brought t-shirts, sweat shirts and toys. we did character breakfastes and hoop dee do. We did the water parks, disneyquest etc etc.
My uncle owned a bar near madison square garden, he use to say all the time, he didn't want the old guy who came in and brought maybe 2 drinks all night. He wanted the young guys who came in to watch the rangers game and brought round after round of beers for his buddies. So while the old guy was his loyal customer and everyone knew his name, he didn't bring the revenue.

I was amazed when talking with my neighbors about genie +, they were not in the uproar we were, every last one (only 4) said the same thing. they'd pay just about anything to not have to stand in line with 3 small kids. I pointed out that it use to be free and while they thought it sucked that they are now charging for up, no one was cancelling trips. They are all young 30's with young children.

as always I do say, I don't have those great memories you guys have and that makes a huge difference. My first time going was in the 70's with my family and we thought it was a colossal rip off so we never returned. I fell in love with it in the early 2000's when I was married with small kids so by that time the change was ramping up.

Hey there is always the chance that a huge massive public outcry could be a good thing, it may be what is needed to get rid of current leadership.

either way the future will be very interesting.

 

[Goofyernmost]

This is all speculation, lol I know nothing.

Very True. but I wonder how much they are even worried about the boomer generation?? you are right, we're getting older the things we remember fondly are not the things the younger generation values. lol, my young adult children remind me of that all the time. One big example is work attitude. LOL when I was a kid/young adult people got jobs with good companies and stayed for their entire work life. I just retired after 33 years with the same company. My sons think that is insane, they fully expect to have 5 or 6 different jobs.

Back in the 60's and 70's the companies success came from what 2 streams. fast forward to now where a large chunk of the companies success comes from it's media outlets. I also wonder how much of the park profit is from old return visitors vs. the young family who may only come once or twice in their life time. I still go and stay on site but I think disney knows, I'm not the big spender. I don't buy souvenirs, I don't do character meals. been there done that. Now go back to my first visit wit my kids and hubby. We brought mickey ears, we brought t-shirts, sweat shirts and toys. we did character breakfastes and hoop dee do. We did the water parks, disneyquest etc etc.
My uncle owned a bar near madison square garden, he use to say all the time, he didn't want the old guy who came in and brought maybe 2 drinks all night. He wanted the young guys who came in to watch the rangers game and brought round after round of beers for his buddies. So while the old guy was his loyal customer and everyone knew his name, he didn't bring the revenue.

I was amazed when talking with my neighbors about genie +, they were not in the uproar we were, every last one (only 4) said the same thing. they'd pay just about anything to not have to stand in line with 3 small kids. I pointed out that it use to be free and while they thought it sucked that they are now charging for up, no one was cancelling trips. They are all young 30's with young children.

as always I do say, I don't have those great memories you guys have and that makes a huge difference. My first time going was in the 70's with my family and we thought it was a colossal rip off so we never returned. I fell in love with it in the early 2000's when I was married with small kids so by that time the change was ramping up.

Hey there is always the chance that a huge massive public outcry could be a good thing, it may be what is needed to get rid of current leadership.

either way the future will be very interesting.

And for your uncle that was a very good business choice. Why? Because they were getting booze and getting a buzz for their money. We older folks go to Disney because we love the nostalgia and we get our buzz the same why. Do generations after get that same buzz from it that we did. Do they get memories of the Mickey Mouse Club original, the Sunday night Wonderful world of color, Davy Crockett, etc. that brought us to the parks for the same fix? Your uncles business plan fit perfectly for his business. Does that same thing apply to WDW? Where you spend money for the sawdust on the floor when you are there just to drink? Disney has us paying for the sawdust because they don't want any overhead in fact they want no overhead at all. Just people paying for every service and thing that were once part of what you paid for when you bought a ticket. Now the ticket cost is just to get in so you can buy other things that you thought was covered with the cover charge.

 

[NickMaio]

Yep. I think the bottom line is that people continue re-visiting Disney to re-live the Magic they experienced in their early visits. When Disney becomes (became?) just another money-grabbing vacation destination, an EXPENSIVE money-grabbing destination, Disney will have lost the Magic that kept generations of families coming back for years & years.

More and more will eventually realize and or feel this sentiment.

 

[eliza61nyc]

And for your uncle that was a very good business choice. Why? Because they were getting booze and getting a buzz for their money. We older folks go to Disney because we love the nostalgia and we get our buzz the same why. Do generations after get that same buzz from it that we did. Do they get memories of the Mickey Mouse Club original, the Sunday night Wonderful world of color, Davy Crockett, etc. that brought us to the parks for the same fix? Your uncles business plan fit perfectly for his business. Does that same thing apply to WDW? Where you spend money for the sawdust on the floor when you are there just to drink? Disney has us paying for the sawdust because they don't want any overhead in fact they want no overhead at all. Just people paying for every service and thing that were once part of what you paid for when you bought a ticket. Now the ticket cost is just to get in so you can buy other things that you thought was covered with the cover charge.

that will be the magical question but they may make memories just in a different way. Remember Goofy, kids today are getting their memories way differently than we did. whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion and a lot of it is the new visitor simply has no idea of the "old" disney. Some people hate the IP in Epcot but the reality is today's generation want to see Elsa and Anna every where, again they might not have any historical background to compare it to but they know when they're little girls get excited to see Olaf. They simply aren't making memories in the same way. the magical world of Disney was long gone by the time my son's were little and we did not do Sunday dinners around the table but they still managed to fall in love with Disney. just differently.

I have no solution at all and of course time will tell. We just got back from our trip and had a magical time but of course the new changes have not taken effect, Most of the annoyances for us were covid related. I'm the type that reevaluates after every trip. We had a marvelous time, felt we got our money's worth with a few exceptions.

 

[Goofyernmost]

that will be the magical question but they may make memories just in a different way. Remember Goofy, kids today are getting their memories way differently than we did. whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion and a lot of it is the new visitor simply has no idea of the "old" disney. Some people hate the IP in Epcot but the reality is today's generation want to see Elsa and Anna every where, again they might not have any historical background to compare it to but they know when they're little girls get excited to see Olaf. They simply aren't making memories in the same way. the magical world of Disney was long gone by the time my son's were little and we did not do Sunday dinners around the table but they still managed to fall in love with Disney. just differently.

I have no solution at all and of course time will tell. We just got back from our trip and had a magical time but of course the new changes have not taken effect, Most of the annoyances for us were covid related. I'm the type that reevaluates after every trip. We had a marvelous time, felt we got our money's worth with a few exceptions.

And there will still be many that have the same visceral reaction to WDW that we did, but Disney has gone out of it's way to put up way to many obstacles designed to make them money but resulting in increased hassle, stress and expense for the people paying the bills. The Guests! Those elements were not nearly as, in your face, as they are now. Now you do have to evaluate your trip to know how much you enjoyed it in spite of problems that didn't exist back then. We didn't evaluate we knew that we wanted more and more of what we experienced. We didn't try and determine if the requirements were outweighed by our enjoyment. We just knew it did.

I am an old aged supporter of the IP's. I think the idea that they take away from the "magic", as it were, is just bull. Just a reason to be upset about the fact that things need to change to survive. I cannot even come up with a family friendly word to describe the upset about the changes. I loved Epcot, once it got its act together, but even I was tiring of the same old omni-based attractions that were entertaining at first but gradually made Epcot became a park full of "let's take a nap in the cool air" been there, done that, attractions. Epcot, in particular, went from an inspiring, pre-internet place to see something new, into an eat, drink and puke location. That prompted games like "Drink around the World" which is not what Walt had in mind when he built Disneyland and hardly family friendly unless the families were all alcoholics. Attendance started to fall and Epcot was dying. I was in favor of anything that might breath new life into a beautiful park. IP's started that change and I can only hope it continues. That said, however, whoever, or possibly whomever, approved Taco Lagoon needs a very long prison term.

 

[123mart123]

Disney parks are designed to profit off volume…especially wdw.

the management isn’t family or longterm (which is why the structure is now in slow erosion) and that means it isn’t required to care about erosion. That’s a GE or Kodak scale potential mistake that can’t be known now.

here’s what I have noticed on boards by ardent fans that really leads Disney astray in their planning and analysis:

1. it can’t be sustained if they push this “luxury” nonsense…it can’t succeed in that market due to the structure. Diamond “peg” being jammed into a sterling silver “slot”.

2. There is an undertone by many big fans that paying Disney large sums of money is equal to their own personal “accomplishment” in life.

it is not so. It’s a consumer product that should be treated just as that. Expectations on the consumer side should determine the path of the supplier.

I can and do go to wdw at will. It doesn’t mean I’ve made it in life and people admire me. It’s a complete false equivalency.

Disney is reading many that cross those two streams incorrectly. And they have - frankly - an unskilled ceo and board that are allowed to sell the farm as they misread it.

Wow…this is amazing…thanks for this.