What is Disney doing to its customer life cycle?

[John park hopper]

I have asked this many times and maybe someone can answer. For every person who is done with Disney what does that translate to the number of people that person turns Disney off to as well. I have had friends who have a bad experience at a restaurant so I as well avoid

 

[SteveAZee]

I have asked this many times and maybe someone can answer. For every person who is done with Disney what does that translate to the number of people that person turns Disney off to as well. I have had friends who have a bad experience at a restaurant so I as well avoid

That's difficult to measure, but I suppose a poll would give us some idea. I think that the difference between following someone's negative impression of a restaurant compared to Disney is that there are lots of restaurants to choose from so it's easier to just avoid going to one with a bad review from a friend. Disney's kind of baked into the American ethos, so it might be a lot easier for them to dismiss your new dislike of Disney as a singular bad experience and something that certainly wouldn't happen with them. People will believe what they want to believe, so it's tough to change people's minds about Disney. It will take time.

 

[erasure fan1]

Many companies have rewards programs for loyal repeat customers liken my Hilton Honors program, Chrysler always sends me discounts on a new truck for buying Chrysler in the past. Yet all the times I have vacationed at WDW never once have they sent me anything for being a loyal customer

"Thanks for visiting us here at the Disney Parks Moms Panel with your question. Unfortunately, there are no discounts for repeat visitors at the Walt Disney World Resort."

From my perspective Disney doesn't care, this has been a one sided love affair with Disney and it's time to leave
Might add as a Hilton Honors I get free parking and a designated Dimond club parking spot, on checkin a snack bag, morning a breakfast snack bag, rewards points for future travel Disney zip -nada

This has always amazed me as well. The last few times we've been to Disney, we have used DVC points to stay a few days, use the pool, go do other things. You would think that at some point Disney would say, hmm, these guys have been coming every year for around 20yrs, what happened? I called my cell phone company up for something and they said, oh I see you've had our service for 21yrs, here's a 20$ bill credit. Disney? Nothing. Why? They just don't care. And I guess why should they. As long as people are throwing money at them for a new cupcake and after hours party after they cut so many things. Why bother. By the time it matters, it will be someone elses problem.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Many companies have rewards programs for loyal repeat customers liken my Hilton Honors program, Chrysler always sends me discounts on a new truck for buying Chrysler in the past. Yet all the times I have vacationed at WDW never once have they sent me anything for being a loyal customer

"Thanks for visiting us here at the Disney Parks Moms Panel with your question. Unfortunately, there are no discounts for repeat visitors at the Walt Disney World Resort."

From my perspective Disney doesn't care, this has been a one sided love affair with Disney and it's time to leave
Might add as a Hilton Honors I get free parking and a designated Dimond club parking spot, on checkin a snack bag, morning a breakfast snack bag, rewards points for future travel Disney zip -nada

There was a time if you were a semi-regular WDW customer, but not too regular customer, AND you checked the correct box (the one that said you wanted to get WDW emails), then it was somewhat common to get a personal discount PIN code. The PIN codes weren't consistent: some were = to the same discount that anyone (General Public) could book, but often they were a bigger discount. So if the GP discount was 30%, the PIN code was often 40%. (If you want to get them, you sign up for All Disney emails through MDE, on their website, though it doesn't always work.)

Even in the past year, I received one, but it was just the same as the GP discount.

Usually though, it hasn't been hard to get some sort of WDW discount if you are flexible about when you book, and when you go. (I know, NOT a loyalty program.)

1. They don't often offer discounts over Christmas week. Other major holidays are maybes.
2. The discounts are for onsite hotels and packages, not tickets.
3. They are only offered during a certain time frames. Like about 6-8 months out or less. If you book you room more like a year out, that's too early, If you book your trip less than 3 months out, you might get a deal, or you might not. August 2021 discounts were available in early July. Some discount offers get booked up quickly.

but not, not anything like free parking or rewards like Hilton offers.

Many years ago, there was a Disney loyalty program called the Mickey Mouse Club, I think. I think it ended maybe...about 2004 or 2005.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I have asked this many times and maybe someone can answer. For every person who is done with Disney what does that translate to the number of people that person turns Disney off to as well. I have had friends who have a bad experience at a restaurant so I as well avoid

That's going to be interesting. One thing I will say about the mouse company is the have turned the trip into a "must do". I know parents with "youngins" that already know that they will be going to Disney AT least once. And as long as they keep pumping out the movies they'll have an audience.
I want to know what %of their guest are first timers

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

"- from “free” to “fee” changes all over the place…nickel and diming on a grand scale"

What has gone from free to fee, other than FastPass +?

I just thought of two more major policy changes at WDW. Though not quite free-to fee, both are major ways WDW has become less customer-friendly than they once were.

1. The no show ADR fee. Mind, this has partly been alleviated now that WDW is again allowing walk-up dining. Well, electronic walk-up dining. Before that WDW had almost no walk-up dining, and if you missed an ADR you were charged $10 a person. So more or less, if you wanted to eat anything other than fast food, you had to make dining reservations well in advance of your visit. But folks stopped booking ADR's, so they had to come up with something slightly more customer friendly. The no show policy is still in place for dining booked in advance.

2. WDW ticket policies. Prior to 2006, all tickets were no-expire park hoppers. Then WDW changed hopping and no expire to add-on fees.

2B.) At alter date, WDW stopped selling the no expire option. If you happened to catch a cold mid-trip, and only used 2 days of a 7 day ticket, you lost the rest of it. (Unless you upgraded it to an AP.) However, unused tickets from this era were still no expire. (good forever as long as you never used them.)

2C.) In the next round of we-no-longer-care-about-u, WDW did entirely away with the no expire option. Now, even if you do NOT use your ticket, it still expires.

2D.) In the NEXT round of we-care-even-less about-u, I'm not sure how to explain, but ticket valid-dates decreased even further. Instead of being good for 1 year, most tickets are now ONLY valid for a very SPECIFIC few days. If you don't use it that very specific time period, you are at WDW's mercy. You are supposed to be able to put the value of that ticket towards a new one, but you are at WDW's mercy.

So while park tickets were never free, they went from simple policies to increasingly complicated pricing and policies that are not clearly explained. When ticket policies were simple, WDW used to LOUDLY advertise that their tickets NEVER expired. Now their policies are complicated and slippery. They've gone to opaque pricing, and just a much less customer-friendly attitude.

Another way WDW tickets got very sneaky is the way they are listed in MDE. If you happen to have an old non-expired ticket in MDE- WATCH OUT! you have to MAKE CERTAIN it isn't 'prioritized' or you will use it up without even knowing it. Instead of using the NEW ticket you just bought, the system will try to use the oldest ticket. So without realizing it, one week at WDW will = losing both the old and the new ticket. Once that old ticket is accidentally used, it CANNOT be replaced. Period. WDW will not issue no expire replacement tickets.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Long time lurker here (10+ years) and love the info and insight. What a wealth of knowledge some of the veterans bring.

I finally felt compelled to post a perspective and question.

I am stunned by the Disney parks business model over the last 15+ years. The Decline in value has been stunning and accelerating. The causes seem obvious, but Disney continues to accelerate down this path. I’m clearly not alone in in this view (anecdotally, this website and all of my family / friends that are/were huge Disney fans)

I’ve begun to wonder what the lag time is for their actions. WHEN will customers leave the business. The 5 stage customer life cycle leads me to believe that their are 5-10 years (??) between actions and consequence to the parks…sort of like car shoppers? The negative experience has to erode (4) retention and (5) advocacy. But if Disney thinks it’s much shorter than that, they will be far Down the wrong path and in a huge hole before they really feel it (Not unlike the domestic auto brands)..

I have been loyal, patient and and strong advocate Of Disney Parks. But I no longer advocate (at all) and we are actively shifting vacation patterns away from Disney (retention). The last few years and this one in particular have finally crossed the line. No need to go into extra detail, but the short list of observations…
- pricing increases seem far higher than inflation
- from “free” to “fee” changes all over the place…nickel and diming on a grand scale
- constant cuts of the “little things” like shows, entertainment
- investment in digital overlays (DME, fp+, etc) instead of rides and attractions
- investment in tent pole rides in mediocre lands with limited capacity or reliability
- direction of EPCOT is a mess…world showcase lagoon barges are hideous
- hard to believe the huge Hollywood studios investment yielded a smaller park with few rides
- deluxe hotel pricing is bizarro-world and seem to be a feeder to their DVC sales…which I think is ultimately killing their gross operating margins.
I could go on…admittedly some of this is personal preference…

So when do customers react en mass? What is the timespan for that positive/negative feedback loop (retention, advocacy)?

Wow…this is amazing…thanks for this.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The problem is we look at WDW from our own perspective while Disney has to look at the parks from multiple generations perspectives.

So if that’s what they have to do…they’re ignoring it

boomers and X have the money and they will for some time…that’s who they are putting the grind on most.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The other possibility is maybe enough rich people can fill Disney parks without the need for peasants?

Excellent post…by the way…

im gonna try not to soliloquy and address this:

the answer is No. Disney parks are designed to profit off volume…especially wdw.

the management isn’t family or longterm (which is why the structure is now in slow erosion) and that means it isn’t required to care about erosion. That’s a GE or Kodak scale potential mistake that can’t be known now.

here’s what I have noticed on boards by ardent fans that really leads Disney astray in their planning and analysis:

1. it can’t be sustained if they push this “luxury” nonsense…it can’t succeed in that market due to the structure. Diamond “peg” being jammed into a sterling silver “slot”.

2. There is an undertone by many big fans that paying Disney large sums of money is equal to their own personal “accomplishment” in life.

it is not so. It’s a consumer product that should be treated just as that. Expectations on the consumer side should determine the path of the supplier.

I can and do go to wdw at will. It doesn’t mean I’ve made it in life and people admire me. It’s a complete false equivalency.

Disney is reading many that cross those two streams incorrectly. And they have - frankly - an unskilled ceo and board that are allowed to sell the farm as they misread it.

 

[Michaelson]

boomers and X have the money and they will for some time…that’s who they are putting the grind on most.

Nope. I'm a boomer and getting ready to retire. I don't have any more money than the next 'Joe', and have no clue when my next trip will be. There are as many 'haves and have nots' in our ranks as anyone else.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[SteveAZee]

Excellent post…by the way…

im gonna try not to soliloquy and address this:

the answer is No. Disney parks are designed to profit off volume…especially wdw.

the management isn’t family or longterm (which is why the structure is now in slow erosion) and that means it isn’t required to care about erosion. That’s a GE or Kodak scale potential mistake that can’t be known now.

here’s what I have noticed on boards by ardent fans that really leads Disney astray in their planning and analysis:

1. it can’t be sustained if they push this “luxury” nonsense…it can’t succeed in that market due to the structure. Diamond “peg” being jammed into a sterling silver “slot”.

2. There is an undertone by many big fans that paying Disney large sums of money is equal to their own personal “accomplishment” in life.

it is not so. It’s a consumer product that should be treated just as that. Expectations on the consumer side should determine the path of the supplier.

I can and do go to wdw at will. It doesn’t mean I’ve made it in life and people admire me. It’s a complete false equivalency.

Disney is reading many that cross those two streams incorrectly. And they have - frankly - an unskilled ceo and board that are allowed to sell the farm as they misread it.

I agree with most of this, though admittedly I had to read through it a couple of times. It's the nature of your prose.

The thing I wonder about is #2. While I don't doubt that some people think that way (and that Disney, along with other things in people's spending, are there as trophies as much as for their actual value), I wonder if it's really a large portion (or even a noticeable portion) of the customer base. I just have no information one way or the other.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with most of this, though admittedly I had to read through it a couple of times. It's the nature of your prose.

The thing I wonder about is #2. While I don't doubt that some people think that way (and that Disney, along with other things in people's spending, are there as trophies as much as for their actual value), I wonder if it's really a large portion (or even a noticeable portion) of the customer base. I just have no information one way or the other.

Sorry…the soliloquy Came out.

#2…there’s a chunk but not nearly big enough for Disney to survive on.

the problem is they bought it when King Bob I floated “luxury”…which was really a misdirection

now King Bob the Lesser is gonna try to push that more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nope. I'm a boomer and getting ready to retire. I don't have any more money than the next 'Joe', and have no clue when my next trip will be. There are as many 'haves and have nots' in our ranks as anyone else.

Regards! Michaelson

I wasn’t addressing individuals…the statistics say that X has less overall wealth than the Boom on average…

…and Y/Z don’t pay their rent or car insurance yet.

not the upper and lower extremes…of course

 

[SteveAZee]

Sorry…the soliloquy Came out.

#2…there’s a chunk but not nearly big enough for Disney to survive on.

the problem is they bought it when King Bob I floated “luxury”…which was really a misdirection

now King Bob the Lesser is gonna try to push that more.

LOL, no problem. It makes for interesting reading.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's much there. I can imagine the people who live their lives through the Facebook/Instagram lens wanting to have WDW on their list of accomplishments, but that tide can turn quickly too.

 

[Greg in TN]

The OP’s question about the “customer life cycle” hasn’t been entirely addressed. To me, that’s a generational question: Who is growing up to be tomorrow’s customer? I grew up in the 1970s, when AAs and flat rides were enough to completely dazzle kids, and the resort was, while not cheap, at least priced low enough for my family to comfortably go a few times a year and still have money left. Then we grew up and we wanted to share that experience with our own kids. They loved it, too. I’d argue that the heyday of WDW came when those 1970s kids began bringing their own families. All four parks were open and the whole resort was basking in love and generosity. But I have serious doubts that the next generation of kids cares as much. There’s so many other things for them to do. The people who are paying the bills? They have those old memories. The next generation, the ones who only know WDW from recent years, won’t have nearly as many warm memories. They’ll remember the hassle of planning, their parents’ stress over the prices, a park that has been Igered to the edge with IP and upsells instead of genuine generosity and magic. Back then, guests got “dreamed”—now they get uosold and crowd-controlled. People always say now, “Well, Disney is a business, and they’re allowed to make money.” That is absolutely true. But my generation is at WDW today because the seed was planted at a time when WDW didn’t feel like a business. It felt magical because you got so much more for your time and money, were lavished with so many generous surprises, than anywhere else. The upcoming generation, for the most part, doesn’t feel as emotionally connected as we did. The people who stay up to 3am to see Disney+ premieres aren’t kids—they’re adults who got the seed planted when they were kids, though. Yes, some kids still love Disney. But I’m not kidding when I say that in the ‘70s and ‘80s, pretty much every kid loved Disney. Now it’s just a brand preference. Lots of kids have not had the seed planted, or they associate the parks with greed. The reputation is unquestionably sliding; you see complaints everywhere and anti-Disney hostility that was rarely present in the first 30 years. That is brand erosion. And the more expensive and burdensome Disney makes it today, the worse that will get. We know what Disney is doing to make profits today. What is Disney’s doing to grow tomorrow’s customers?

Yep. I think the bottom line is that people continue re-visiting Disney to re-live the Magic they experienced in their early visits. When Disney becomes (became?) just another money-grabbing vacation destination, an EXPENSIVE money-grabbing destination, Disney will have lost the Magic that kept generations of families coming back for years & years.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Nope. I'm a boomer and getting ready to retire. I don't have any more money than the next 'Joe', and have no clue when my next trip will be. There are as many 'haves and have nots' in our ranks as anyone else.

Regards! Michaelson

I don't think it's an individual thing. most companies do trends and stats on demographics. boomers do tend to have more "disposable" income. I just retired, my kiddies are sorta kinda self sufficient, no college tuition bills to worry about, I'm 3 years away from having a paid off mortgage, yada yada yada. the big unknown of course is health care but the big child care ticket is done.
that's why retirees are known to travel a lot etc etc.

 

[Nubs70]

WDW is targeting the "once and done", high disposable income demographic while maximizing net margin through commoditization of offerings with digitization of the experience. The digitization of experience creates an illusion of a customized individual experience.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Yep. I think the bottom line is that people continue re-visiting Disney to re-live the Magic they experienced in their early visits. When Disney becomes (became?) just another money-grabbing vacation destination, an EXPENSIVE money-grabbing destination, Disney will have lost the Magic that kept generations of families coming back for years & years.

all I can say is that I've been on this forum for 9 or 10 years. we've been saying that for 9-10 years.

 

[SteveAZee]

all I can say is that I've been on this forum for 9 or 10 years. we've been saying that for 9-10 years.

"Live every day like it's your last, since one day you're bound to be right." At some point, it's conceivable that the backlash will arrive for Disney. Same as I can predict that the stock market will crash.

 

[eliza61nyc]

"Live every day like it's your last, since one day you're bound to be right." At some point, it's conceivable that the backlash will arrive for Disney. Same as I can predict that the stock market will crash.

It's interesting. I'm here now and you wouldn't believe how many folks I talked to have zero problem with Genie +. It's currently 90°and humid almost every one U chatted up about genie + said they would pay ANYTHING not to stand in line
Now granted I'm not sure fully understand the new system but I expected this massive backlash to it, like I read here. Totally understand this is super unscientific