What is Disney doing to its customer life cycle?

[John park hopper]

Resort parking was free if you were registered at that resort ever since WDW began then in 2018 I believe they started charging have had 1 or 2 price increase already. Moderate resort will cost 25/day. Transportation to and from the airport was free Disney did away with that.

 

[mysto]

Your ride from the airport won't be free for much longer. Disney isn't charging you directly, but walking is the remaining free option. Hitch?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Resort parking was free if you were registered at that resort ever since WDW began then in 2018 I believe they started charging have had 1 or 2 price increase already. Moderate resort will cost 25/day. Transportation to and from the airport was freeDdisney did away with that.

Years ago...probably like 2010, we dined at the 50's Prime Time Café, where the wait staff was supposed to be sassy. After taking our order, but before our food was ready, our waiter randomly came to our table and dropped some 20 WDW pens (pick-up sticks style) right in the middle of the table saying, "Here, this is the only free thing you're ever going to get from WDW! Hold on to them!"

In the same era, WDW CM's used to give away LOTS of free Mickey Stickers. Back then, you'd find them stuck randomly all over WDW, and slowly I've seen fewer and fewer of them. One day at WoD, a CM randomly handed me almost an entire roll of Mickey stickers!

In the semi-sorta-same realm, WDW used to have other small freebies that, well, I'm not sure how to qualify them, but they used to be free and now they are just gone, or nearly gone. WDW napkins used to wish us a magical day, but now they are just plain boring brown napkins. And Transportation CM's used to give out little cards. I have heard those aren't completely gone, but I haven't seen one in years. CM's used to give them out quite often.

While the WDW birthday buttons still exists, they also aren't as prolific as they once were. there was stretch of about 4 or 5 years where WDW went birthday-special event crazy. If it was your birthday or something CM's were super enthusiastic about little things like giving out some sort of free sweet.

There were other little perks too. Like certificates for being the first customer of the day. We also once got a golden Fastpass just for answering a question a CM posed. I mean it was literally golden, and good on any ride that day. I'm not sure where it is, but it was too cool to actually use it!

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Oh, there was also the free coloring pages in every food court, the free make-your-own plastic robots in Epcot, Free make-your-own handmade paper in Epcot, free honey sticks during the food festival, free flight of Sam Adams beer samples during the food festival.

And does anyone else remember the Kidcot stations that were in Future World? Instead of stamps/bags, each station gave kids a tag. There was a ladybug for the land, and an orange traffic cone at TT...

Speaking of ladybugs...remember when WDW had ladybug releases every day? If you were at GF, you could release a little box of them to help control aphids. There is still a reference in Living in the Land to using Ladybugs "to control aphids" instead of pesticides. I'm thinking maybe the ladybug releases weren't effective perhaps? They quietly disappeared a while ago.

The resorts also used to have more freebies and free activities. A few still exist, but not like 10 years ago. When AKL opened, they had a ton of them. Every night, an African storyteller CM in the Cultural Exchange Program told African folktales by the AKL campfire. I could see how it maybe that wouldn't fly in 2020, but those CM's were amazing storytellers! It was such a treat to hear African folktales told by a talented storyteller. As someone who has studied the history of oral storytelling, it was extremely memorable. Oral storytelling was once part of every world culture, especially nighttime storytelling by a fire.

AKL CM's also used to invite kids to play African musical instruments in the lobby every evening, and crayon rubbings of the lobby medallion, hoola hoop, free cookie decorating. It was a big cookie! The hotels gave out free WDW character temporary tattoos.

WDW was just so much more than rides. It was one surprise treat after another. not everywhere, not every visit, but often.

 

[John park hopper]

Oh, there was also the free coloring pages in every food court, the free make-your-own plastic robots in Epcot, Free make-your-own handmade paper in Epcot, free honey sticks during the food festival, free flight of Sam Adams beer samples during the food festival.

And does anyone else remember the Kidcot stations that were in Future World? Instead of stamps/bags, each station gave kids a tag. There was a ladybug for the land, and an orange traffic cone at TT...

Speaking of ladybugs...remember when WDW had ladybug releases every day? If you were at GF, you could release a little box of them to help control aphids. There is still a reference in Living in the Land to using Ladybugs "to control aphids" instead of pesticides. I'm thinking maybe the ladybug releases weren't effective perhaps? They quietly disappeared a while ago.

The resorts also used to have more freebies and free activities. A few still exist, but not like 10 years ago. When AKL opened, they had a ton of them. Every night, an African storyteller CM in the Cultural Exchange Program told African folktales by the AKL campfire. I could see how it maybe that wouldn't fly in 2020, but those CM's were amazing storytellers! It was such a treat to hear African folktales told by a talented storyteller. As someone who has studied the history of oral storytelling, it was extremely memorable. Oral storytelling was once part of every world culture, especially nighttime storytelling by a fire.

AKL CM's also used to invite kids to play African musical instruments in the lobby every evening, and crayon rubbings of the lobby medallion, hoola hoop, free cookie decorating. It was a big cookie! The hotels gave out free WDW character temporary tattoos.

WDW was just so much more than rides. It was one surprise treat after another. not everywhere, not every visit, but often.

Gee I had forgotten all that now I'm really depressed

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Gee I had forgotten all that noe I'm really depressed

I know, right?

And like, WDW sometimes adds scavenger hunts, but the new ones now cost $ to play, which is kind of insane. You have to pay like $10 for a sheet of paper!

I hope post-covid they bring back the GF chocolate Easter eggs, but I don't know. If you never saw them, they were an extraordinary display of WDW's talent! The GF lobby was full of very large chocolate eggs that were each decorated with a Disney story or character theme. Like one was made to look like Lion King safari scene, and another looked like Mike from Monster's INC. Each one was wildly unique and very detailed.

Oh, and don't get me started on the loss of the GF musicians. At least the very talented piano player, Wes, has now returned.

It pains me to think of the tremendous talent WDW just completely dumped. The band spent years training to play the kind of music WDW wanted them to play. Now they have lost their livelihood. My heart goes out to them.

 

[larryz]

Glad you asked....

Up through at least 2019/early 2020, penny press machines were $0.51. Insert your two quarters plus the penny to be pressed and turn the crank! (WDW started slowly replacing them - I think - in 2019.)

In MK, there is a covered walkway/set of bathrooms that connect Adventureland to the edge of Liberty Square and Frontierland.
(On the current park map, it is between #17 Jungle Nav Co Skipper Canteen, and #31 Diamond Horseshoe.)

Just outside that bathroom was a brown change machine like the kind found in old arcades. Except this one was special. If you inserted a $1 dollar bill, the machine gave back $1.02! If you inserted $5, the machine gave back $5.10. So the machine actually GAVE out money!

There used to also be a couple of the old pressed penny machines in that tunnel. (The $.51 kind).

Now there is only one machine. It is the one of the new machines. No need for quarters. It now swallows dollar bills and even takes credit cards, but the pressed pennies now cost $1 each!

Below is an image of the old machine:

I guarantee that as soon as Bobba the Hutt saw that, he's like "No more giving away free money!"

 

[larryz]

Speaking of ladybugs...remember when WDW had ladybug releases every day? If you were at GF, you could release a little box of them to help control aphids. There is still a reference in Living in the Land to using Ladybugs "to control aphids" instead of pesticides. I'm thinking maybe the ladybug releases weren't effective perhaps? They quietly disappeared a while ago.

I think that stopped the year after they tried the preying mantis release experience...

 

[123mart123]

"- from “free” to “fee” changes all over the place…nickel and diming on a grand scale"

What has gone from free to fee, other than FastPass +?

genie/fast pass
parking (parks and resorts)
magical express (now you have to pay for meers)
after hours / extra magic hours (paid events, evening is now deluxe/DVC only)
photo pass (was part of annual passes, now it’s back to add on)
evolution of the dining plan (never used it every few years it offered less as prices rose)

just to name a few popular things… combining some of these could easily add $500 to a week for things that were free. Ignoring the significant price increases on top of that.

Jim Hill and @lentesta go through a bunch of cuts and increases just in the last year alone on their podcast.
It is quite the picture and doesn’t include all the “little“ price increases everywhere.

 

[lentesta]

genie/fast pass
parking (parks and resorts)
magical express (now you have to pay for meers)
after hours / extra magic hours (paid events, evening is now deluxe/DVC only)
photo pass (was part of annual passes, now it’s back to add on)
evolution of the dining plan (never used it every few years it offered less as prices rose)

just to name a few popular things… combining some of these could easily add $500 to a week for things that were free. Ignoring the significant price increases on top of that.

Jim Hill and @lentesta go through a bunch of cuts and increases just in the last year alone on their podcast.
It is quite the picture and doesn’t include all the “little“ price increases everywhere.

Also complimentary MagicBands for resort guests (now $6 per person, I think).

 

[123mart123]

I used to think I would be shopping at Sears and JC Penny forever...it will catch up to them

Agree.
that’s the genesis of my long winded post to start the thread.

my theory is the actions of this year wont have a negative or positive feedback (en masse) for many years. if true,
1. it could make “cause and effect“ hard to recognize so Disney keeps digging not recognizing it
2. they could miss the window to course correct…and as it continues to spiral, their corrective actions could appear ineffective because those too would take a while to have an enduring impact… (never mind how long it takes them to do new projects)

 

[BeentoallDParks]

The OP’s question about the “customer life cycle” hasn’t been entirely addressed. To me, that’s a generational question: Who is growing up to be tomorrow’s customer? I grew up in the 1970s, when AAs and flat rides were enough to completely dazzle kids, and the resort was, while not cheap, at least priced low enough for my family to comfortably go a few times a year and still have money left. Then we grew up and we wanted to share that experience with our own kids. They loved it, too. I’d argue that the heyday of WDW came when those 1970s kids began bringing their own families. All four parks were open and the whole resort was basking in love and generosity. But I have serious doubts that the next generation of kids cares as much. There’s so many other things for them to do. The people who are paying the bills? They have those old memories. The next generation, the ones who only know WDW from recent years, won’t have nearly as many warm memories. They’ll remember the hassle of planning, their parents’ stress over the prices, a park that has been Igered to the edge with IP and upsells instead of genuine generosity and magic. Back then, guests got “dreamed”—now they get uosold and crowd-controlled. People always say now, “Well, Disney is a business, and they’re allowed to make money.” That is absolutely true. But my generation is at WDW today because the seed was planted at a time when WDW didn’t feel like a business. It felt magical because you got so much more for your time and money, were lavished with so many generous surprises, than anywhere else. The upcoming generation, for the most part, doesn’t feel as emotionally connected as we did. The people who stay up to 3am to see Disney+ premieres aren’t kids—they’re adults who got the seed planted when they were kids, though. Yes, some kids still love Disney. But I’m not kidding when I say that in the ‘70s and ‘80s, pretty much every kid loved Disney. Now it’s just a brand preference. Lots of kids have not had the seed planted, or they associate the parks with greed. The reputation is unquestionably sliding; you see complaints everywhere and anti-Disney hostility that was rarely present in the first 30 years. That is brand erosion. And the more expensive and burdensome Disney makes it today, the worse that will get. We know what Disney is doing to make profits today. What is Disney’s doing to grow tomorrow’s customers?

 

[SteveAZee]

Agree.
that’s the genesis of my long winded post to start the thread.

my theory is the actions of this year wont have a negative or positive feedback (en masse) for many years. if true,
1. it could make “cause and effect“ hard to recognize so Disney keeps digging not recognizing it
2. they could miss the window to course correct…and as it continues to spiral, their corrective actions could appear ineffective because those too would take a while to have an enduring impact… (never mind how long it takes them to do new projects)

I think there will be repercussions sooner than many years from now, but probably a few years it might become apparent. The pandemic has caused trendlines and projections to be really difficult. I think that Disney does lots of polling to get the pulse of guest sentiment and satisfaction, but if those surveys are designed to bias the results in Disney's favor, they may not get the right feedback in time to course correct.

 

[josephinelcajon]

Long time lurker here (10+ years) and love the info and insight. What a wealth of knowledge some of the veterans bring.

I finally felt compelled to post a perspective and question.

I am stunned by the Disney parks business model over the last 15+ years. The Decline in value has been stunning and accelerating. The causes seem obvious, but Disney continues to accelerate down this path. I’m clearly not alone in in this view (anecdotally, this website and all of my family / friends that are/were huge Disney fans)

I’ve begun to wonder what the lag time is for their actions. WHEN will customers leave the business. The 5 stage customer life cycle leads me to believe that their are 5-10 years (??) between actions and consequence to the parks…sort of like car shoppers? The negative experience has to erode (4) retention and (5) advocacy. But if Disney thinks it’s much shorter than that, they will be far Down the wrong path and in a huge hole before they really feel it (Not unlike the domestic auto brands)..

I have been loyal, patient and and strong advocate Of Disney Parks. But I no longer advocate (at all) and we are actively shifting vacation patterns away from Disney (retention). The last few years and this one in particular have finally crossed the line. No need to go into extra detail, but the short list of observations…
- pricing increases seem far higher than inflation
- from “free” to “fee” changes all over the place…nickel and diming on a grand scale
- constant cuts of the “little things” like shows, entertainment
- investment in digital overlays (DME, fp+, etc) instead of rides and attractions
- investment in tent pole rides in mediocre lands with limited capacity or reliability
- direction of EPCOT is a mess…world showcase lagoon barges are hideous
- hard to believe the huge Hollywood studios investment yielded a smaller park with few rides
- deluxe hotel pricing is bizarro-world and seem to be a feeder to their DVC sales…which I think is ultimately killing their gross operating margins.
I could go on…admittedly some of this is personal preference…

So when do customers react en mass? What is the timespan for that positive/negative feedback loop (retention, advocacy)?

I can only speak of Disneyland Resort and the Disney Company. Growing up going to Disneyland at least once a year I saw nothing but improvements. Even DCA was an improvement that could have been done much better. This was the very first time I saw Disney go cheap! Never before did they seem to cut corners. Its been a constant and accelerating problem. I broke my back about 10 yrs ago that really put my health and finances in a bad way I slowed then stopped going completely. Its been 5+ yrs sense going. All I hear and see is bad! Tomorrowland the forgotten and half closed. Cast members talking to Walt's grand daughter. Then George Lucas was disgusted with the new Star Wars area. The last two years was even worse taking Walt's personal creations and destroying them over racism and sexism! I don't have the health money or heart to be broken to even attempt to go back and see the destruction! I would rather die with what good memories I have left! RIP Walt if you can that is! :-(...

 

[Karakasa]

I feel like management might think the Disney Play app is a sufficient replacement for all the little things. "Oh, well, people come for the rides anyway, if they're bored they can just play on their phones". But... you can use the app outside of the parks so uh, it's not really different than any other app except for Galaxy's Edge, and even then the promised interactivity doesn't really pan out. It doesn't help it's quite a big app- not as big as some phone games can get, but not exactly small either. I had to uninstall some apps to get it on my phone and after I realized how it's not really essential for enjoying GE I uninstalled without a second glance.

Years ago...probably like 2010, we dined at the 50's Prim Time Café, where the wait staff was supposed to be sassy. After taking our order, but before our food was ready, our waiter randomly came to our table and dropped some 20 WDW pens (pick-up sticks style) right in the middle of the table saying, "Here, this is the only free thing you're ever going to get from WDW! Hold on the them!"

In the same era, WDW CM's used to give away LOTS of free Mickey Stickers. Back then, you'd find them stuck randomly all over WDW, and slowly I've seen fewer and fewer of them. One day at WoD, a CM randomly handed me almost an entire roll of Mickey stickers!

In the semi-sorta-same realm, WDW used to have other small freebies that, well, I'm not sure how to qualify them, but they used to be free and now they are just gone, or nearly gone. WDW napkins used to wish us a magical day, but now they are just plain boring brown napkins. And Transportation CM's used to give out little cards. I have heard those aren't completely gone, but I haven't seen one in years. CM's used to give them out quite often.

While the WDW birthday buttons still exists, they also aren't as prolific as they once were. there was stretch of about 4 or 5 years where WDW went birthday-special event crazy. If it was your birthday or something CM's were super enthusiastic about little things like giving out some sort of free sweet.

There were other little perks too. Like certificates for being the first customer of the day. We also once got a golden Fastpass just for answering a question a CM posed. I mean it was literally golden, and good on any ride that day. I'm not sure where it is, but it was too cool to actually use it!

If it's any consolation, on my last trip, a Cast Member in the Morocco pavillion was handing those Mickey stickers out. I foolishly put it on my chest without thinking, I could've saved it as a souvenir to put on my computer at home, aaah! Instead I wore it for three hours before taking it off, lmao.

Edit: Oh yeah, and when it was my birthday, I did have a number of cast members and in one case a character go out of their way to do stuff for me, so to speak.

I think it's a matter of circumstance in both cases, however. It was awfully slow the week I was there so maybe they were just able to do the things they used to without costing the company too much.

 

[John park hopper]

Many companies have rewards programs for loyal repeat customers liken my Hilton Honors program, Chrysler always sends me discounts on a new truck for buying Chrysler in the past. Yet all the times I have vacationed at WDW never once have they sent me anything for being a loyal customer

"Thanks for visiting us here at the Disney Parks Moms Panel with your question. Unfortunately, there are no discounts for repeat visitors at the Walt Disney World Resort."

From my perspective Disney doesn't care, this has been a one sided love affair with Disney and it's time to leave
Might add as a Hilton Honors I get free parking and a designated Dimond club parking spot, on checkin a snack bag, morning a breakfast snack bag (if not eating the the sit down breakfast-complimentary), rewards points for future travel Disney zip -nada

 

[Ayla]

Also complimentary MagicBands for resort guests (now $6 per person, I think).

Plain colors are $10, plus tax.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Plain colors are $10, plus tax.

I have never wanted the band. I haven't kept up with recent incarnations of the band stuff, but can you still use a hard ticket instead of the band. I always found it just as easy to reach into my pocket and pull out the ticket then to constantly have to check my wrist to see if it was still there or not.

 

[Ayla]

I have never wanted the band. I haven't kept up with recent incarnations of the band stuff, but can you still use a hard ticket instead of the band. I always found it just as easy to reach into my pocket and pull out the ticket then to constantly have to check my wrist to see if it was still there or not.

Yes, you can ask for a card instead at check-in.

 

[123mart123]

The OP’s question about the “customer life cycle” hasn’t been entirely addressed. To me, that’s a generational question: Who is growing up to be tomorrow’s customer? …

Who are the “new“ customers and how easy is it to be successful pulling in new ones when you are losing / failing with so many others?
especially when they seem to really be targeting the wealthier and smaller part of the population.

The next generation, the ones who only know WDW from recent years, won’t have nearly as many warm memories. They’ll remember the hassle of planning, their parents’ stress over the prices, a park that has been Igered to the edge with IP and upsells instead of genuine generosity and magic. Back then, guests got “dreamed”—now they get uosold and crowd-controlled. People always say now, “Well, Disney is a business, and they’re allowed to make money.” That is absolutely true.

I think that is the implied “tolerance” of the really loyal fans that I was referring to. I used to advocate for Disney and was patient and ‘tolerant’ As it started to diminish. At some point, it’s “enough is enough”. I’m honestly very surprised at the family and friends I know from a wide swath of backgrounds saying the same type of thing.

But my generation is at WDW today because the seed was planted at a time when WDW didn’t feel like a business. It felt magical because you got so much more for your time and money, were lavished with so many generous surprises, than anywhere else.

Those little things made it hard to explain the totality of the experience. Expensive as heck…yeah, but like nothing else in the world in so many ways.

The reputation is unquestionably sliding; you see complaints everywhere and anti-Disney hostility that was rarely present in the first 30 years. That is brand erosion. And the more expensive and burdensome Disney makes it today, the worse that will get. We know what Disney is doing to make profits today. What is Disney’s doing to grow tomorrow’s customers?

great post (I clipped some to focus on and emphasize the generational perspective)

Definitely seeing brand erosion imho.