What do you think Legoland will do to WDW's attendance?

[scbb11Sketch]

Yeah, everytime we drove down the turnpike toward Disney or Universal, passing that sign for Cypress Gardens always seemed so strange. It was in the middle of nowhere and seemed like a tourist-trap type attraction. I'm sure Legoland will get more traffic than Cypress Gardens did, though, purely because of their marketing and having a park based off a household name. Distracting people away from Disney, though, will not be easy.

 

[yeti]

Do you think that Legoland will take visitors from WDW? I mean, it's pretty much a big thing! People go to Anaheim and pass up Disneyland to go to Legoland... what do you think Legoland will do to WDW's attendance rates etc.?

Walt Disney World isn't Disneyland.

 

[SeaCastle]

Walt Disney World isn't Disneyland.

Thank you for stating a fact that's lost on most posters on Disney forums today.

 

[Disneyfanman]

I live in Salt Lake City, home of super huge families, and I hear about Legoland CA all the time. Maybe it's because many folks have been driving to DL for years, but it seems to have grown quite a fan base with young children. Everyone says it's very expensive, but I haven't heard anyone say that it wasn't worth the trip. I have never gone because my kids are older.

They are going to have to deal with the issues with the remote location, and they are going to have to deal with the high price for admission (it sounds like it's going to be lower than CA initially), and the marketing will have to be clever, but it will certainly draw families with kids in the target demo. There is only one other lego park in the states and it will create quite a buzz.

It's going to take away folks from the MK. I think, more than Universal initially did with IOA. Should Disney be quaking in their mouse boots? Nope, but I bet they will be able to measure the drop. I really love the MK, and would never go to WDW without spending considerable time there, but they need to step up their game at that park with MORE attractions and interesting things to do. FLE needs to be maximized.

Any competition for Disney is good from that perspective.

 

[joe80x86]

The Legoland Florida website shows the pricing at $65 for adults and $55 for kids.

I would just like to point out that according to the Legoland FL website those are the exclusive preview prices. So the actual at the gate price after opening will be higher!

http://florida.legoland.com/buy_tickets/tickets/

 

[thelookingglass]

Yeah, everytime we drove down the turnpike toward Disney or Universal, passing that sign for Cypress Gardens always seemed so strange. It was in the middle of nowhere and seemed like a tourist-trap type attraction. I'm sure Legoland will get more traffic than Cypress Gardens did, though, purely because of their marketing and having a park based off a household name. Distracting people away from Disney, though, will not be easy.

Ironically, Cypress Gardens was around way before Walt Disney World - since 1936.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

They must be doing something right...

If they weren't doing well in the theme park business...why would they open another? Lego has been around forever and isn't exactly known to make bad business moves.

Sure, it may not do much to Disney...but to say Lego doesn't have a fanbase is just very naive. I looked at the site and I can definitely tell you that it has a lot that my nephew would love whereas all of Disney...he likes maybe a handful of attractions (IASW, Buzz, TSMM, Indy Speedway and that's about it)

 

[DizNole]

Legoland Florida is not even close to a freeway. It's an hours drive from Disney World over back-country roads out in the middle of nowhere. Upon opening next year it will have a relatively small number of attractions and entertainment, amid a mish-mash of themes and concepts since they have stated they will keep some of the gardens open and have young ladies wearing the Southern Belle hoop skirts that made Cypress Gardens famous in the 1930's. It's not 1938 anymore, so I wonder how big of a draw that will be? .

I live less than 5 minutes from Cypress Gardens/Legoland.

While I would like for Legoland to be successful because it will be a big boost to the economy, WDW has nothing to fear from Legoland. They aren't in the same league.

As far as being in the middle of nowhere and hard to get to, that's not entirely true. I don't know what you consider back roads, but while granted it's about 20-25 miles from the interstate, it's only 2 turns from WDW. I-4 West, South on US 27 (mostly a six lane road, with the rest in the process of being six-laned) and then right on SR 540/Cypress Gardens Blvd (4 lanes). It takes me 30 minutes to get to Disney, 45 in heavy traffic without speeding.

The reason why Legoland is keeping the gardens is because they don't really have a choice. The gardens are protected from develpment by the State of Florida. Also, I believe it's the county that actually owns the original botanical gardens which are then leased to Legoland who must maintain them.

 

[jt04]

Those are all valid points, and certainly part of the equation here.

Interestingly, Legoland California predicted in 1999 it would get about 2 Million in attendance in its first year. It never made it. It got about 1.4 Million that first year, then attendance dropped off through the early 2000's after people visited and saw that it was nothing like any other SoCal theme park.

Legoland California went on a major expansion program in the latter 2000's, and their attendance climbed slowly as they added large new park rides, a separate waterslide park, and new hotels and timeshares connected to the park itself. But only when they added the separate-ticket SeaLife Aquarium adjacent to the maingate did their attendance increase by 30% in 2008-09, when you add in those separate aquarium ticket sales to the Legoland mix.

Still, with all they've done for the past decade, they are still below the 2 Million mark for yearly attendance.

Interestingly, there is a strong contingent of local annual passholders that go to Legoland a lot. It's a typically SoCal demographic made up primarily of middle and upper-middle class housewives living in the affluent suburbs of Orange and San Diego counties who take their young children there a lot and have no problem stating that they find Legoland to be more intelligent and stimulating for their children than Disneyland or Sea World or any of the other SoCal theme parks.

I'm not sure there's enough of that type of demographic in central Florida to help pad the yearly attendance figures of Legoland Florida, like they do in California.

Prepare to be shocked. The threat comes in two forms. First loss of locals to this new option. Everyone claims it is too far away but if you live on the booming west coast (Tampa- St Pete) it is much much closer than Disney. Secondly, many alternatives to Disney of this caliber will probably create the option of non-Disney vacation packages to Orlando. Even if the non-Disney parks do not get together to create flex passes, I would think some enterprising travel agencies will be glad to put together just such inclusive iteneraries. I could go into detail as to why off property vacations are highly marketable as central Florida adds more competition for the mouse house but I think I will leave it to the readers imagination.

All forms of entertainment are competition for WDW.

The DVD you picked up this weekend.
The cable bill you paid last weekend.
The album you downloaded on iTunes.
The TGI Fridays dinner you have tonight.


Disney World is large enough to say to themselves that ANY dollar you don't spend there is a dollar spent at the competition.

Why do you think there are multiple levels of rooms, dining, shopping, transportation, everything.

You rent a car, Disney loses $$$.

Go to Legoland- Disney loses A LOT more than Admission. Disney loses over $100 per person per day from guests that do something besides Disney.

Bingo Jimbo

We all keep coming back to this issue of accesibility and transportation to the Legoland Florida site. I vaguely remember my one visit to Cypress Gardens around 1990, and it wasn't easy to get to from WDW. Looking on the map and satellite images, it's pretty much out in the middle of nowhere.

Doing the natural comparison to Legoland California, where they've struggled for 10 years of major capital investment to get 1.8 Million visitors, it's amazing how convenient it is to all sorts of transportation options.

It's clearly labeled off the major I-5 Interstate Freeway, the main freeway between LA and San Diego along the coast, with two big off-ramps, and it's about a 3 minute drive once you're off the freeway to the Legoland entrance. (#17 on this map)

Less than a mile from the Legoland main gate is the Carlsbad Palomar Airport, where several major airlines offer commuter jet and turboprop service to other airports in California, Nevada, Baja California, and Arizona.

Then, on the other side of I-5, along the ocean and about 1.5 miles from the Legoland main entrance, is the Carlsbad train station which has dozens of trains per day from Sprinter and Coaster commuter trains of San Diego County Transit...
Carlsbad, California train station

Coaster and Sprinter train service of North San Diego County

As well as connecting service from dozens of daily Metrolink commuter trains from Orange and Los Angeles counties, and over a dozen daily Amtrak Surfliner trains from the Santa Barbara/Los Angeles/San Diego route...
Amtrak Surfliner passing by Carlsbad, California beach

In short, you can freeway, fly or train to major off-ramps and stations and terminals all within a mile of the Legoland California main entrance. And yet even after a decade of major expansion and improvements, Legoland California can't yet muster up the 2 Million yearly attendance they said they would get back in 1999.

And WDW management is supposed to be scared of Legoland Florida out in the middle of nowhere? I don't think they are worried. :lol:

.

OK, I'm going to say this and drop the subject because I know this is correct but I don't want to deal with the knee-jerk emotional outbursts it will cause. But Legoland will have a bigger impact on the MK than TWWoHP does in it's present form. If HP-land expands that may change things but as it stands now Legoland is the bigger threat.

Nobody is saying these other options are going to hurt Disney in a major way, but they certainly can greatly impact profit margins. Which is why all the rumors of all the new options coming to WDW will only accelerate. Because they are worried about the bottom line. And they should be.

 

[SeaCastle]

Prepare to be shocked. The threat comes in two forms. First loss of locals to this new option. Everyone claims it is too far away but if you live on the booming west coast (Tampa- St Pete) it is much much closer than Disney. Secondly, many alternatives to Disney of this caliber will probably create the option of non-Disney vacation packages to Orlando. Even if the non-Disney parks do not get together to create flex passes, I would think some enterprising travel agencies will be glad to put together just such inclusive iteneraries. I could go into detail as to why off property vacations are highly marketable as central Florida adds more competition for the mouse house but I think I will leave it to the readers imagination.



Bingo Jimbo



OK, I'm going to say this and drop the subject because I know this is correct but I don't want to deal with the knee-jerk emotional outbursts it will cause. But Legoland will have a bigger impact on the MK than TWWoHP does in it's present form. If HP-land expands that may change things but as it stands now Legoland is the bigger threat.

Nobody is saying these other options are going to hurt Disney in a major way, but they certainly can greatly impact profit margins. Which is why all the rumors of all the new options coming to WDW will only accelerate. Because they are worried about the bottom line. And they should be.

If you paid any attention to TP2000's posts, you'll see why they have a hard enough time getting locals to come to Legoland. It's like saying Times Square will lose visitors because they put a rollercoaster in at COney Island. I'm sure you know Central Florida tourism demographics to know otherwise, but I have a haard time buying into the fact that a re-themed sideshow an hour away from WDW will have a greater impact (if any) than a several hundred million dollar, attendance increasinng, profit augmenting Harry Potter Wonderland 20 minutes away. Unless you can provide some stats like TP did, you don't have much of an argument.

 

[scottnj1966]

Location will be the primary problem as Cypress Gardens was.
Most people are very happy to come to Disney and stay there the whole visit. Less having to get in the car the better. Driving an hour or so away is not what they will be looking for.

The location has always been the problem. If your not close to Orlando your going to lose out no matter who you are.

I for one will probably go once to check it out, but that's it.
I love going to busch Gardens in Tampa but since it is so far away from Central Florida we go maybe once every three or four years, and they give Florida Residents a GREAT DEAL.

I do wish them all the luck. Florida needs more options, but it needs to be close to where people are willing to travel.

 

[jt04]

If you paid any attention to TP2000's posts, you'll see why they have a hard enough time getting locals to come to Legoland. It's like saying Times Square will lose visitors because they put a rollercoaster in at COney Island. I'm sure you know Central Florida tourism demographics to know otherwise, but I have a haard time buying into the fact that a re-themed sideshow an hour away from WDW will have a greater impact (if any) than a several hundred million dollar, attendance increasinng, profit augmenting Harry Potter Wonderland 20 minutes away. Unless you can provide some stats like TP did, you don't have much of an argument.

As usual my proof will be experienced rather than just theorized about. The California and Florida Legoland comparrison is a non-starter with me as they represent such different issues. If ever there was an apples/oranges comparrison this is it. About the only thing they have in common is the name. Again, this new addition will not empty WDW's queues and parking lots. Nobody is claiming it will. But it will impact profit margins which are never as stable as people think. So, watch and learn. And expect more announcements from the mouse house. My guess, sooner rather than later.

 

[Brian Noble]

It might nibble around the margins, but probably not by much. Most on-property guests are already such a captive audience it won't matter. Off-property guests *might* steal a day from WDW to go down, but I'm guessing they are more likely to steal a day from some other activity because of the ticket pricing structure. Overall WDW attendance is still likely to increase due to improving economic conditions, but it might increase a little less than it "would have".

 

[unkadug]

As usual my proof will be experienced rather than just theorized about. The California and Florida Legoland comparrison is a non-starter with me as they represent such different issues. If ever there was an apples/oranges comparrison this is it. About the only thing they have in common is the name. Again, this new addition will not empty WDW's queues and parking lots. Nobody is claiming it will. But it will impact profit margins which are never as stable as people think. So, watch and learn. And expect more announcements from the mouse house. My guess, sooner rather than later.

As usual you are making up stuff and calling it fact. You talk about the locals like they are a mainstay at WDW. We KNOW that isn't the case, if that was fact then TDO would have more seasonal overlays, etc. that everyone blames on the lack of a local crowd. TDO has proved time again that the local market is not that important to them. They put up a good front for PR reasons, but they could really care less about their market. The locals DO NOT spend like the tourists do. (With a few exceptions of course.:lookaroun)

Talk about comparing apples to oranges, I believe you are the past master champion on that feat.

 

[TREVON 2.0]

Oops... Sorry... I just know that Legoland is in Cali. and someone told me it was near Anaheim... will it is near... that's what I meant...

 

[SeaCastle]

As usual my proof will be experienced rather than just theorized about. The California and Florida Legoland comparrison is a non-starter with me as they represent such different issues. If ever there was an apples/oranges comparrison this is it. About the only thing they have in common is the name. Again, this new addition will not empty WDW's queues and parking lots. Nobody is claiming it will. But it will impact profit margins which are never as stable as people think. So, watch and learn. And expect more announcements from the mouse house. My guess, sooner rather than later.

So, you're implying that TDO is so scared of Legoland hurting their profits that they'll announce the FLE changes, Monsters Inc Coaster, Pleasure Island re-do, and the new DVC in reaction?

And if you can elaborate on how Legoland is going to draw enough people to hurt WDW Co.'s profits substantially, go ahead. You have failed to do so.

 

[BLY]

We as a family of five with three children aged 9 and under will definately visit Legoland. We have one here in the UK which is a four hour drive away and we try and go once a year (with an overnight stay.) We love Magic Kingdom mainly because the whole family can enjoy virtually all the attractions in the park. Legoland is similar for families with young children. We will still go to MK of course but we will take out a Disney day or two to go to Lego. We stay in Davenport just near HW27 so it wont take us much longer than it takes us to get to Universal.

We go to Orlando for Disney but its great to have more choice to do something different.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Again, this new addition will not empty WDW's queues and parking lots. Nobody is claiming it will. But it will impact profit margins which are never as stable as people think.

I agree with JT on this one. And he phrased it well. MK might not lose any business but the less popular parks might lose a day otherwise spent there.

And let's not forget who owns Legoland and how they're related to Busch Gardens, Sea World and Universal. A powerful multi-day flex ticket is coming and that HAS to be a concern to Disney. A very viable, favorably-priced 5-day flex-ticket could do some real damage to the bottom line.

BobK/Orlando

 

[UrbanDonovan]

I find it too funny that people who obviously have zero knowledge of the Cypress Gardens area get on this board and speak like experts.

Keep it up guys. You're keeping me laughing.:ROFLOL:

 

[funkycold]

So, you're implying that TDO is so scared of Legoland hurting their profits that they'll announce the FLE changes, Monsters Inc Coaster, Pleasure Island re-do, and the new DVC in reaction?

And if you can elaborate on how Legoland is going to draw enough people to hurt WDW Co.'s profits substantially, go ahead. You have failed to do so.

i know this is totally off-topic, but when did they officially announce the monsters inc coaster? i always thought it was just rumor never confirmed...?