What do you think Legoland will do to WDW's attendance?

[TP2000]

^ Plus, the majority of the trip from Disney to Cypress Gardens/Legoland is on US 27 and SR 540, both of which have a ton of stop lights and take you through some run down areas that an out-of-town tourist may not be comfortable going through.
Cypress Gardens, in it's last few years before closing, had a ton of billboards around central Florida, and even with all that, the park didn't survive! Granted, the "Lego" brand itself will be a bigger draw, but still.

US 27 and SR 540 have stoplights??? I had assumed these were major highways with controlled access, or at least US 27 was that way. These don't sound like freeways, but instead sound more like rural roads with stoplights and such. Again, I don't remember much of my one visit to Cypress Gardens about 20 years ago, but I do remember it wasn't easy to get to. I just don't remember stoplights and specifics.

Legoland has a dedicated exit off the 10 lane I-5 freeway, with the park itself about a short 2 or 3 minute drive up the hill once you exit the freeway.

Legoland Drive to the parking area is up the hill, overlooking some rather bland office parks and the Pacific Ocean. It's not ultra-posh by any means, but it's clean and modern and very safe. Carlsbad is a solidly middle-class, newer suburb of San Diego, with aspirations of being more upscale in spots with very nice beachside restaurants and shopping.

Freeway Offramp to Legoland Parking Lot looking downhill away from theme park

And remember, it's taken a full decade of major investment, expansion and struggle to get them to 1.8 Million visitors per year at Legoland California.

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[thelookingglass]

US 27 and SR 540 have stoplights??? I had assumed these were major highways with controlled access, or at least US 27 was that way. These don't sound like freeways, but instead sound more like rural roads with stoplights and such. Again, I don't remember much of my one visit to Cypress Gardens about 20 years ago, but I do remember it wasn't easy to get to. I just don't remember stoplights and specifics.
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Yep. While both US 27 and SR 540 have multiple lanes the whole way, they do have a good amount of stop lights.

 

[DizNole]

The damage from the 2004 hurricanes had more to do with the park going bankrupt in 2006 than anything else. When the park reopened with the rides and animals in 2005 an estimated 1.4 million people visited it in the first year with about the same number in 2006 (about 80% being people living within an hour form the park). The water park helped as it was a big hit with locals (even during the final year). It wasn't until 2007 when the new owners after the bankruptcy auction took over that attendance began declining (how taking out the rides and animals was supossed to bring people to the park, I'll never know).

 

[Mouse Detective]

Blackstone is really not the kind of company that is going to generate a concerted effort in central Florida. Universal City Partners, Sea World Parks & Entertainment and Merlin Entertainment are operated as separate companies.

Blackstone did not invest in multiple theme parks in order to see them go under. While many speculated that they would squeeze the parks by cutting costs and then unload them for a profit, we've instead seen continued investments that have led to growth. The Orlando Flex-ticket is the same as California's Citypass, without Disney. It doesn't need Disney because it was designed to compete against Disney. Of course Legoland will become a part of it.

Yes, distance is likely Legoland's greatest hurdle. But for Legoland's target customers, an hour or less from WDW is not very far. Legoland is NOT Cypress Gardens. It's an entirely different competitor!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Blackstone did not invest in multiple theme parks in order to see them go under. While many speculated that they would squeeze the parks by cutting costs and then unload them for a profit, we've instead seen continued investments that have led to growth.

Blackstone has made no efforts to consolidate their various theme park operations.

The Orlando Flex-ticket is the same as California's Citypass, without Disney. It doesn't need Disney because it was designed to compete against Disney. Of course Legoland will become a part of it.

People keep mentioning the Orlando Flex Ticket as if it is some new, big threat. It has existed and its aim is primarily at British tourists who spend more time in central Florida.

Yes, distance is likely Legoland's greatest hurdle. But for Legoland's target customers, an hour or less from WDW is not very far. Legoland is NOT Cypress Gardens. It's an entirely different competitor!

Legoland may not be Cypress Gardens, but it is not a wholly new park. Many of the problems will still be present.

 

[TP2000]

Legoland may not be Cypress Gardens, but it is not a wholly new park. Many of the problems will still be present.

Legoland Florida will open next year with 14 rides, 1 3-D theater, and 2 stage shows. The basic list of opening day attractions is;

3-D Theater
Duplo Kiddy Spinner
Duplo Kiddy Cars
Dragon Coaster
Jousting Horseback Ride
Technic Wild Mouse Coaster
Technic Wave Spinner Ride
Power Tower Cable Hoist Chairs
Junior Dinosaur Coaster
Lost Kingdom Laser Target Dark Ride
Beetle Bounce Kiddy Ride
Driving School (A Signature Park Ride)
Junior Driving School
Cypress Gardens Wooden Coaster
Cypress Gardens Flying Island

In addition, there appear to be two stage shows; one a pirates themed show with water guns, and the Fire Academy show they are also known for. There is also their Miniland section, which will be very small to start with but is a fun thing to wander through. And the usual collection of Lego displays and interactive play areas, plus the requisite gift shops, restaurants and snack bars.

Quite a few rides missing from that list compared to the Legoland California property, but I guess they'll add more in future years.

As someone who has been to Legoland California a few times, most recently in 2008, I should warn you that the Legoland standard of showmanship, quality and technological prowess is nowhere near a Disney or Universal or Busch Gardens level of sophistication. Don't think Fantasmic! or Wishes or Nemo Musical here at all, but rather your basic local amusement park in any average American city.

 

[thelookingglass]

People keep mentioning the Orlando Flex Ticket as if it is some new, big threat. It has existed and its aim is primarily at British tourists who spend more time in central Florida.

I just looked and Sea World and Busch Gardens even sell the Flex Ticket on their websites! I had no idea.

That just goes to show you that if people can already buy purchase a 14 day ticket for 300 dollars that gets you into Universal, IOA, Sea World, Aquatica, Wet & Wild, AND Busch Gardens, and this option has not made a dent in WDW, then that should tell you just how little adding Legoland to the Flex Ticket would do.

Legoland may not be Cypress Gardens, but it is not a wholly new park. Many of the problems will still be present.

Exactly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

One must ask, why do so many Disney fans want Legoland Florida to be a smashing success? Maybe the decline in showmanship and quality is being much more noticed.

And remember, it's taken a full decade of major investment, expansion and struggle to get them to 1.8 Million visitors per year at Legoland California.

Just to add a little more perspective to these attendance figures:
Six Flags Great Adventure: 2.6 million
Six Flags Magic Mountain: 2.5 million
Six Flags Great America: 2.5 million
Legoland California is not only being beat out by Disney, Universal and SeaWorld but also by Cedar Fair and Six Flags. Both Six Flags Great Adventure and Six Flags Great America are totally closed for the winter, and they still beat Legoland California. If Legoland Florida is part of some sort of concerted effort on the part of Blackstone then it is a bad idea, a really bad idea. In order for Legoland Florida to do what some people are thinking, this park will have to be a hit on a scale that is completely and totally unprecedented by everything in the Legoland chain.

 

[redshoesrock]

One must ask, why do so many Disney fans want Legoland Florida to be a smashing success? Maybe the decline in showmanship and quality is being much more noticed.

No, it's because competition will mean that any park - WDW, Universal, SeaWorld, etc. - will be quicker on the draw to add new and better attractions to draw customers away from the competition. That's why I'm such a fan of TWWoHP; if it can draw a significant percentage of attendees away from WDW, Disney will have to respond to draw them back.

I'm also surprised the vast majority of you never knew about the Orlando FlexTicket, it's advertised at every non-Disney park (Of course if you've never BEEN to a non-Disney park...) Here's a link to how much they cost:

http://www.floridaorlandotickets.net/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=144-5-Park-Orlando-Flex-Ticket-with-Aquatica&sid=66w94x5n83j2631x375j181aqe824rpq

I would expect Legoland to hop on the FlexTicket bandwagon since every other non-Disney theme park in Central Florida has teamed up against the Mouse.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, it's because competition will mean that any park - WDW, Universal, SeaWorld, etc. - will be quicker on the draw to add new and better attractions to draw customers away from the competition. That's why I'm such a fan of TWWoHP; if it can draw a significant percentage of attendees away from WDW, Disney will have to respond to draw them back.

Exactly my point, Disney is not longer leading the way simply because they are Disney. The resort is resting on many of its laurels and competition is what people hope will bring exciting things.

Also, doing some more looking at attendance, Legoland Florida would not only have to significantly outperform all of the established Legoland parks, but also significantly outperform all of the other parks owned and operated by Merlin Entertainment. An attack on Disney would have been better carried out by Universal City Partners and/or SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment.

 

[redshoesrock]

Also, doing some more looking at attendance, Legoland Florida would not only have to significantly outperform all of the established Legoland parks, but also significantly outperform all of the other parks owned and operated by Merlin Entertainment.

Which it very well might. Orlando is the most visited American city by tourists (sometimes Las Vegas has slipped in as number one; they tend to be neck-and-neck), so there is already a built-in audience. It makes perfect sense for Merlin Entertainments to have a presence there. But your thinking that Legoland Florida has to be Merlin Entertainments' biggest attended theme park is a bit flawed, I think. The company is already the number two theme park operator in the world behind Disney, so it's not as if Legoland Florida has to be "the second coming" for it to be successful; conversely, the company has enough money to withstand lower than expected attendance for quite sometime. Anything that can keep tourists off Disney property for even just a day is hurting Disney's bottom-line and will be looked at. Case-in-point: about fifteen years ago, Disney did some research and found that tourists that were going to, and staying at, WDW were going off-property to play miniature golf for an hour or two. Because tourists were going off-property (even though it was for just a small period of time), Disney built Fantasia Gardens and Winter Summerland to keep them from leaving.

 

[joe80x86]

Another issue for LLF is getting their from south Florida. I can jump on the Turnpike and be at WDW, Uni, or SW in about 1 to 1.5 hrs. To get to LLF would take me at least 2 hours because of the road conditions, it would also take me even longer if I went to Otown and then back tracked.

I understand why they build there, but they will have the same transit problems that CG had.

 

[joe80x86]

Yep. While both US 27 and SR 540 have multiple lanes the whole way, they do have a good amount of stop lights.

Yeah, they are not highways like the Florida Turnpike or I95 by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Kamikaze]

Do you think that Legoland will take visitors from WDW? I mean, it's pretty much a big thing! People go to Anaheim and pass up Disneyland to go to Legoland... what do you think Legoland will do to WDW's attendance rates etc.?

Source for this please.

 

[Kamikaze]

Which it very well might. Orlando is the most visited American city by tourists (sometimes Las Vegas has slipped in as number one; they tend to be neck-and-neck), so there is already a built-in audience. It makes perfect sense for Merlin Entertainments to have a presence there. But your thinking that Legoland Florida has to be Merlin Entertainments' biggest attended theme park is a bit flawed, I think. The company is already the number two theme park operator in the world behind Disney, so it's not as if Legoland Florida has to be "the second coming" for it to be successful; conversely, the company has enough money to withstand lower than expected attendance for quite sometime. Anything that can keep tourists off Disney property for even just a day is hurting Disney's bottom-line and will be looked at. Case-in-point: about fifteen years ago, Disney did some research and found that tourists that were going to, and staying at, WDW were going off-property to play miniature golf for an hour or two. Because tourists were going off-property (even though it was for just a small period of time), Disney built Fantasia Gardens and Winter Summerland to keep them from leaving.

Its not in Orlando. Its more in Tampa than anything.

 

[WildcatDen]

Now, just speaking for myself, Legoland has no interest for me or my family. I think the arguement on here has been somewhat pointed. Bottom line is what impact may it have? Well, using Potter, I will say this, when we next head to Orlando we will definetely be visiting Potter. See, I have made your arguement but wait, there is more. We may also make a day to visit Sea World. How will this cut in to our Disney Plans? We will add days to the vacation, not cut in to our Disney Days. Not only that, we will most likely extend our stay at a Disney Resort while we visit these other parks with the thought that we can get back and do the evening EMH at Disney. So, in my family summary, how have these parks / attractions impacted Disney? They have got my family to exend our Disney Hotel stay and spend money on WDW property at some point that day. If we did not exend the trip to visit the other parks, we would be on I-75 North. I would say Disney wins in my scenerio.

 

[redshoesrock]

Now, just speaking for myself, Legoland has no interest for me or my family. I think the arguement on here has been somewhat pointed. Bottom line is what impact may it have? Well, using Potter, I will say this, when we next head to Orlando we will definetely be visiting Potter. See, I have made your arguement but wait, there is more. We may also make a day to visit Sea World. How will this cut in to our Disney Plans? We will add days to the vacation, not cut in to our Disney Days. Not only that, we will most likely extend our stay at a Disney Resort while we visit these other parks with the thought that we can get back and do the evening EMH at Disney. So, in my family summary, how have these parks / attractions impacted Disney? They have got my family to exend our Disney Hotel stay and spend money on WDW property at some point that day. If we did not exend the trip to visit the other parks, we would be on I-75 North. I would say Disney wins in my scenerio.

In my opinion, Disney wins to a small degree in your scenario but it's not nearly a complete clear-cut victory by any stretch. You've said you'll add days to your vacation but not cut into your Disney days. Disney (and any other resort/theme park operator/vacation destination) isn't interested that you're spending your *typical* amount of vacation time on-property, they are solely interested that you spend your *entire* vacation on-property regardless if you're extending your typical vacation time by one day or five. So if you're extending your vacation by two extra days, why are you not spending it all on Disney property? It's because, in your scenario, you're spending one day at Universal and one day at SeaWorld. Will you be buying tickets for Universal and SeaWorld? That's money Disney doesn't get. Will you be eating at each park? Again, money Disney doesn't get. Buying a Harry Potter wand and a Shamu plushie? Still more money Disney doesn't get. How much will it cost you to go to EMH at Disney? Absolutely nothing; we both know it's a free perk given to Disney resort guests. I grant you that Disney will be getting extra money from you since you're extending your normal amount of hotel nights by two. Only you can correctly answer if you'll be buying more merchandise than you normally would by going to two EMHs; myself, I would not (our family tends to lump most merchandise buying into one specific day). Like I said, Disney achieves a small victory by keeping you in their hotel for two extra nights, but you also have to factor the amount of time and money you'll be spending for Universal and SeaWorld on your last two days of your vacation.

 

[fosse76]

Which it very well might. Orlando is the most visited American city by tourists (sometimes Las Vegas has slipped in as number one; they tend to be neck-and-neck)

Just barely is it no. 1. It fluctuates between New York and Orlando, not Vegas. According to Forbes, Orlando was visited by 48 million visitors, followed by New York at 47, and Chicago at 45. Vegas comes in at 6th, with 38 million. With the economy the way it is, and New York being extremely expensive, it's not surprising Orlando has surpassed it. But keep in mind, more tourists flock through Times Square (not including residents or people who work there) than Disney World. But with those numbers, there definitely is room for more attrctions.

The company is already the number two theme park operator in the world behind Disney, so it's not as if Legoland Florida has to be "the second coming" for it to be successful;

Actually, I believe Six Flags is...unless they sold more parks that brought their numbers down even further (which is possible).

Anything that can keep tourists off Disney property for even just a day is hurting Disney's bottom-line and will be looked at.

Some of the people on this board don't like to hear that. An extension of ones vacation isn't as common among most of Disney's guests, so they lose out if people spend time at another park. Even those who do extend are taking money away fron Disney, as someone already mentioned. While there maybe people who will increase their budget to accomodate additional attractions, most people won't. It'll come out of their entire vacation budget.

Case-in-point: about fifteen years ago, Disney did some research and found that tourists that were going to, and staying at, WDW were going off-property to play miniature golf for an hour or two. Because tourists were going off-property (even though it was for just a small period of time), Disney built Fantasia Gardens and Winter Summerland to keep them from leaving.

Probably why they have a movie theater at Downtown Disney, among other things. They want your money. They don't care that you were only going to spend x amount at Disney no matter what. They only care that you are spending it elsewhere. This is why we need the competition to be good. The last E ticket was five years ago. No other park in the country could really get away with no improvements.

 

[Mouse Detective]

We will add days to the vacation, not cut in to our Disney Days.

That's great that you can afford in both time and money that option. Most Americans cannot. We get a week vacation at a time and if two days is spent off-property, that's less days available for disney.

Case-in-point: about fifteen years ago, Disney did some research and found that tourists that were going to, and staying at, WDW were going off-property to play miniature golf for an hour or two. Because tourists were going off-property (even though it was for just a small period of time), Disney built Fantasia Gardens and Winter Summerland to keep them from leaving.

Ditto all the adults about twenty years ago who who leaving property every night to go to Church Street Station downtown. Presto: Pleasure Island. (Which is why it's such a surprise that they shut that down and literally handed it over to Universal!)

 

[redshoesrock]

Actually, I believe Six Flags is...unless they sold more parks that brought their numbers down even further (which is possible).

I apologize, I should of been more specific. I was referring to attendance figures. Six Flags does own the most properties (more than Disney), but is fourth in terms of total attendance to their parks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_attendance_figures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Flags