What caused them to do a ride (Splash Mountain) based on a movie they weren't releasing?

[Cmdr_Crimson]

The only major change in the entire ride is this scene..

And Brer rabbit was in tar from the film...

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Hmmm when i was in k-12, we spoke of slavery in very limited terms. Just the time period. However, we spoke of the Holocaust for a whole semester in 7th, 8th and 10th grade.

I love splash mountain but the reality is the movie is racist.

Even they tend to downplay those elements, especially in the South.

I don't know where or when you guys went to school, but in New Jersey in the 80s we definitely learned about slavery.

 

[HMF]

I don't know where or when you guys went to school, but in New Jersey in the 80s we definitely learned about slavery.

I learned about slavery too and am from the Northeastern United States. In the South though, there is a lot of censorship and/or re-painting history to fit their agenda.

 

[The Mom]

I learned about slavery too and am from the Northeastern United States. In the South though, there is a lot of censorship and/or re-painting history to fit their agenda.

Really? Some of the most bigoted people I have ever met were born and raised in the Northeast. And slavery was definitely glossed over in my (Northeastern) history classes. I spent half of my life in the Northeast, and the other half (so far) in the South. Plenty of misconceptions by both groups about the other.

 

[HMF]

Really? Some of the most bigoted people I have ever met were born and raised in the Northeast. And slavery was definitely glossed over in my (Northeastern) history classes. I spent half of my life in the Northeast, and the other half (so far) in the South. Plenty of misconceptions by both groups about the other.

Oh, The North has it's bigots too, I won't deny that. The problem of institutional racism is a very deep and complex topic and is by no means limited to the south.

 

[ratherbeinwdw]

I learned about slavery too and am from the Northeastern United States. In the South though, there is a lot of censorship and/or re-painting history to fit their agenda.

This is ridiculous. Many of the same textbooks are used across the country.
I taught for many years in Georgia and never censored anything. We used national tests, so there's no way we would or could censor what was in the text.
We taught about the Civil War starting in fourth grade. We never sugar coated the facts.

 

[Californian Elitist]

This is ridiculous. Many of the same textbooks are used across the country.
I taught for many years in Georgia and never censored anything. We used national tests, so there's no way we would or could censor what was in the text.
We taught about the Civil War starting in fourth grade. We never sugar coated the facts.

It's actually not ridiculous, nor far-fetched. Education in the U.S. differs, depending on the region, based on my own experience (we didn't learn about the Civil War until 8th grade). And the topic of slavery has been censored before. Just a few years ago in Texas, a southern state, a woman had looked through her daughter's history book, where she found that the text described slaves as not actual slaves, but as "workers" that "emigrated" from Africa. That is absolutely false.

 

[jaklgreen]

It's actually not ridiculous, nor far-fetched. Education in the U.S. differs, depending on the region, based on my own experience (we didn't learn about the Civil War until 8th grade). And the topic of slavery has been censored before. Just a few years ago in Texas, a southern state, a woman had looked through her daughter's history book, where she found that the text described slaves as not actual slaves, but as "workers" that "emigrated" from Africa. That is absolutely false.

I agree with you. The history books and even what people hear in the news is very distorted. I don't know about the civil was since no one is still alive to tell you about it. But I am sure there was so much more going on then people want to admit. I will say what I do know. What we learned in school about the holocaust is a very limited, cleaned up version of what really happened. How many times do you hear people talking about it now in the news as to how it was the Jews that were only targeted. How only the Jews suffered. Every one was targeted by Hitler. My grandmother, who just turned 90, was right in the middle of it.(so was my grandpa but he is gone now) The stories that I heard from them growing up is nowhere near the watered down version of what they tell us about it. I think that is wrong. If they are trying to protect the child from horrors then they are doing everyone a disservice. People need to remember and be moved by it so these things do not happen again. My grandmother actually was a slave for the Nazis. They would take the teenagers and distribute them where they were "needed". My grandmother ended up as a farmhand at 16 for a German family who's sons went to fight for Hitler. Her father and brother went to the concentration camps, her aunt and young cousins were gunned down on the street. BTW, we are not Jewish, it didn't matter to them. So I ask again, how many of you have heard that these things happened, especially to non Jewish people. This has nothing to do with Splash Mountain, but to the conversation about what is taught in schools.

 

[Matt_Black]

I agree with you. The history books and even what people hear in the news is very distorted. I don't know about the civil was since no one is still alive to tell you about it. But I am sure there was so much more going on then people want to admit. I will say what I do know. What we learned in school about the holocaust is a very limited, cleaned up version of what really happened. How many times do you hear people talking about it now in the news as to how it was the Jews that were only targeted. How only the Jews suffered. Every one was targeted by Hitler. My grandmother, who just turned 90, was right in the middle of it.(so was my grandpa but he is gone now) The stories that I heard from them growing up is nowhere near the watered down version of what they tell us about it. I think that is wrong. If they are trying to protect the child from horrors then they are doing everyone a disservice. People need to remember and be moved by it so these things do not happen again. My grandmother actually was a slave for the Nazis. They would take the teenagers and distribute them where they were "needed". My grandmother ended up as a farmhand at 16 for a German family who's sons went to fight for Hitler. Her father and brother went to the concentration camps, her aunt and young cousins were gunned down on the street. BTW, we are not Jewish, it didn't matter to them. So I ask again, how many of you have heard that these things happened, especially to non Jewish people. This has nothing to do with Splash Mountain, but to the conversation about what is taught in schools.

Okay, yes, many people besides Jews were targeted. In fact, if we want to play suffering poker, more Russians died in World War II than Jews.

HOWEVER, let's not pretend for a second that the Nazis didn't hate Jews. The Jews were a key focal point and scapegoat that the Nazis used in rallying up support. Hitler was very close friends with Henry Ford (yes, THAT Henry Ford) who reprinted the infamous propaganda "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (a bit of screed so full of malarkey that even virulent Anti-Semite Czar Nicholas II decried it, fearing that it would make antisemitism look bad, which... yeah) in his newspaper, giving those awful views legitimacy to many. (So, yeah, "fake news" isn't exactly a new thing.)

 

[jaklgreen]

Okay, yes, many people besides Jews were targeted. In fact, if we want to play suffering poker, more Russians died in World War II than Jews.

HOWEVER, let's not pretend for a second that the Nazis didn't hate Jews. The Jews were a key focal point and scapegoat that the Nazis used in rallying up support. Hitler was very close friends with Henry Ford (yes, THAT Henry Ford) who reprinted the infamous propaganda "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (a bit of screed so full of malarkey that even virulent Anti-Semite Czar Nicholas II decried it, fearing that it would make antisemitism look bad, which... yeah) in his newspaper, giving those awful views legitimacy to many. (So, yeah, "fake news" isn't exactly a new thing.)

Of course they hated Jews, and Blacks, Asians, and pretty much anyone who did not fit into their "ideal" look. My point was that not ONLY Jews were targeted like the media like to spout now. I know this is what people think because over the years whenever I have said that my relatives where in the concentration camps, every single person assumed that I was Jewish. Plus my other point was that they don't teach these things, all you hear is a small portion of what is really the truth. On the slavery topic, did any of you know that they took people as young as 14 as slaves during the war?

 

[Matt_Black]

Of course they hated Jews, and Blacks, Asians, and pretty much anyone who did not fit into their "ideal" look. My point was that not ONLY Jews were targeted like the media like to spout now. I know this is what people think because over the years whenever I have said that my relatives where in the concentration camps, every single person assumed that I was Jewish. Plus my other point was that they don't teach these things, all you hear is a small portion of what is really the truth. On the slavery topic, did any of you know that they took people as young as 14 as slaves during the war?

That's a bit like saying, "The Klan didn't just hate black people, they hated Irish Catholics too!" While technically true, the Klan DID NOT form with "Ousting the Irish Catholic immigrants from the country" as a primary goal.

 

[jaklgreen]

That's a bit like saying, "The Klan didn't just hate black people, they hated Irish Catholics too!" While technically true, the Klan DID NOT form with "Ousting the Irish Catholic immigrants from the country" as a primary goal.

No, Hitler wanted to take over the world. He didn't want anyone left alive except for his "idea" German. He killed indiscriminately. Have you ever talked to anyone who lived through that? Had their homes burned and their animals slaughtered and been taken to concentration camps. The nazis did not go around and ask if someone was Jewish before they shot them. He was a psychopath who wanted to take over the world and he didn't care who he killed to do it. He had no value for life, Jewish or not. You are just buying into the PR that all he wanted to do was get rid of Jews.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I agree with you. The history books and even what people hear in the news is very distorted. I don't know about the civil was since no one is still alive to tell you about it. But I am sure there was so much more going on then people want to admit. I will say what I do know. What we learned in school about the holocaust is a very limited, cleaned up version of what really happened. How many times do you hear people talking about it now in the news as to how it was the Jews that were only targeted. How only the Jews suffered. Every one was targeted by Hitler. My grandmother, who just turned 90, was right in the middle of it.(so was my grandpa but he is gone now) The stories that I heard from them growing up is nowhere near the watered down version of what they tell us about it. I think that is wrong. If they are trying to protect the child from horrors then they are doing everyone a disservice. People need to remember and be moved by it so these things do not happen again. My grandmother actually was a slave for the Nazis. They would take the teenagers and distribute them where they were "needed". My grandmother ended up as a farmhand at 16 for a German family who's sons went to fight for Hitler. Her father and brother went to the concentration camps, her aunt and young cousins were gunned down on the street. BTW, we are not Jewish, it didn't matter to them. So I ask again, how many of you have heard that these things happened, especially to non Jewish people. This has nothing to do with Splash Mountain, but to the conversation about what is taught in schools.

History is definitely distorted. In saying that, while yes, people who weren't Jewish also died during the Holocaust, Jews were always the main target and died in significant higher ratios than gays, Blacks, twins, etc. I see no issue in continuing to bring up Jews as the victims of the Holocaust.

 

[Californian Elitist]

This thread is taking a turn. The conversation is good, but I'm assuming it's going to be closed. I hope it doesn't.

 

[jaklgreen]

History is definitely distorted. In saying that, while yes, people who weren't Jewish also died during the Holocaust, Jews were always the main target and died in significant higher ratios than gays, Blacks, twins, etc. I see no issue in continuing to bring up Jews as the victims of the Holocaust.

Almost 6 million Jews were killed and almost 16 million non-Jews were. Not denying the fact that they were a main target. My point is that now, especially in the media everyone thinks that it was ONLY Jews that were targeted and killed by the Nazis. The main point that I was making is in the deficient teaching of these horrible events in history to try to "clean" them up. Over the years, people that I have talked to all are very ignorant as to what really happened and who was affected. All I ever hear is about the poor Jews and nothing about all of the other people that suffered and were killed. EVERYONE needs to be remembered and not just a portion. Teach the whole truth.

 

[The Mom]

Perhaps we can all (myself included) get back on topic?

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Good thing we have schools and history teachers!

Obviously kids need to learn about this, that isn't the point here, my point is for a movie targeted at kids people are acting as if the movie should have been similar to Roots. Uncle Remus is talking to animated animals in this movie. I do not think it is drenched in reality in the first place. My oldest child is 5. Does he need to know about the awful way people were treated during the Civil War? To me, he's too young. Don't we do enough things to make the kids "grow up" too fast?

Slavery should never be mitigated, not even for children, in my opinion.

Slavery was explained to us as children in school. It's not like they leave that out in history class in elementary. I'm not saying Disney should have showed slaves being physically absused, but the finished product is just absurd. Disney could have done better.

I mean, what should it have shown? It really revolved around the relationship between Remus and the little white kid (forget his name). With some animation thrown in there. Can the movie not stand on its own with that sort of theme and plot?

 

[21stamps]

I was shocked when I realized that my kid had never heard Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, until the first time that he went to Disney World.

We just watched Song of the South 2 months ago. It's on Hoopla...along with a ton of other old Disney movies.

To the person who said that it's difficult to explain to younger children, it really isn't. Obviously we can't explain in great detail, but building a foundation of understanding other times, and other people, starts at a young age.

We recently went to a museum called the "Freedom Center". It's basically about the Underground Railroad. There's no reason to shield children from history, but the in depth part comes later on.

In Kindergarten my kid's school had a week focusing on Martin Luther King. This year, 1st grade, they brought home a book about Rosa Parks...and had to write a mini report on it.(as in a few sentences totaling 1 page).

My child's school definitely does not have a diverse student body..so it's my job to make sure he has experiences with diverse people and religions elsewhere.
So while I agree with @Tony the Tigger that "we have schools for that" , it's also necessary for us to build and expand on something like a book and classroom discussion about Rosa Parks, MLK, slavery, etc etc etc.
A movie isn't going to harm that learning or even the understanding...IF we explain it.

 

[larryz]

My child goes to a Catholic School, and that school definitely does not have a diverse student body..so it's my job to make sure he has experiences with diverse people and religions elsewhere.

I'm surprised your child's school doesn't have any kids attending on vouchers, then.

 

[brb1006]

This thread is starting to slowly take an ugly turn.