WEB SLINGERS: A Spider-Man Adventure to use Virtual Queue

flynnibus

Premium Member
Not really. The source material is much more simpatico with a Disney park. It’s also a land straight from the movie. Not something this new batch of imagineers has to cook up based on 19 different character driven movies in a small pilot of land.

A Star Wars land did not have to encompass the entire cinema history or universe... neither does a Marvel land.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
A Star Wars land did not have to encompass the entire cinema history or universe... neither does a Marvel land.

It didn’t. I’ve said they should have built some type of San Francisco Marvel land for DCA. Still, doesn’t change the fact that a “copy paste” of Radiator Springs is not only more suited to be a land in a Disney park than anything from Marvel but an easier task for the imagineers.

EDIT: easier from a concept/ design standpoint. Not necessarily in execution.
 
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el_super

Well-Known Member
We know Disney is capable of much better quality than the product they put out. When they shove it down the throats for years that it is coming and this is the result, the critiques are valid all around and the industry knows that is a very classic DCA situation.

I could see some form of very valid criticism being levied against Disney's marketing strategies for sure. They overhype on basically everything coming out of the parks... even a new churro.

But continually holding everything to the standard of "WDI can do better" is a surefire path to disappointment. Of course WDI can do better. They could have built a full Marvel park if asked to. But that wasn't the scope of the project. Every project from the creation of Disneyland itself has been a compromise between blue sky ideas and the realities of completion.

Would anyone really be willing to argue that Disneyland was a huge disappointment at opening, because they had to wait 12 years for Pirates to open?
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
So as long as there's a presence of Spandex-man in some capacity in an otherwise unused building, that's just goldang good enough for you. Gotcha.
I've never seen a more obvious sign of a paid employee than his posts. I've blocked him.

Theres a big difference between someone who is happy with the land and enjoys it, vs the terminology this poster used which seems so corporate to me it's blatant.

This person is upset with the fact that anyone could be let down by this half-assed effort from the same company that brought us Pandora and Cars Land in the last decade.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I could see some form of very valid criticism being levied against Disney's marketing strategies for sure. They overhype on basically everything coming out of the parks... even a new churro.

But continually holding everything to the standard of "WDI can do better" is a surefire path to disappointment. Of course WDI can do better. They could have built a full Marvel park if asked to. But that wasn't the scope of the project. Every project from the creation of Disneyland itself has been a compromise between blue sky ideas and the realities of completion.

Would anyone really be willing to argue that Disneyland was a huge disappointment at opening, because they had to wait 12 years for Pirates to open?

Again, I think it is fair to expect the top of the line in theme park design at its best in the main new attraction of the most expensive invested and acquired media for the company to use in their theme park land outside of Star Wars Galaxy's edge. More accurately, it is the executive leadership that can do better. There were other ideas for the ride that were turned down for budget. The constraints that were delivered were missing some simple things that others are noticing clearly missed.

This is not blogsphere churro marketing for Disney theme park fans, this was a Marvel Cinematic Universe land years in the making with some of the most expensive and revenue producing films and franchising of all time.

You can call it a bandwagon or be frustrated with the fact that the majority of people are unimpressed and some really dislike it. But so far, that is the consensus.
 

CM.X777

Active Member
High score shooting games are not my definition of interactive. The resort now has 3 of them.

The land and ride are a massive disappointment. Look at Cars Land and Pandora to see how projects turn out when Disney actually cares.

To act like Marvel Land, which has been in the works since 2011 at WDI, is suitable output for Disney Imagineering and the franchise it represents, is crazy to me.

In relation to Cars and Pandora I don't know if the terms "cares" is the best fitting one. Both those projects had a budget magnitudes bigger than AC got. I personally think AC should have gotten a budget that big as it is the biggest pop culture IP on the planet, bigger than Star Wars now since they ed up the ST. Maybe that's part of the problem Chapek knew how big the MCU was so he thought he could cheap out, and people would still come.

As for a Marvel Land being in the works since 2011, that is correct. However what was built and approved is far far far from the best idea they had. You're blaming WDI when I think you need to look to Cheap out-Chapek (mostly) and Iger. It's the Disney execs who never green lit the Marvel projects that were as ambitious SWGE.

To Iger's credit, most people will never know how incredibly close the Tomorrowland version of Star Wars land came to starting construction before Iger stepped in and told them to start over and shoot for the moon. That TL version basically would have been an AC style Star Wars land.


The fact that Cars has a better land than the MCU is pathetic.

That's a Chapek Project for you.
 

Launchpad_Mcquack

New Member
I'm glad that you have set the bar so high, you will never find any enjoyment in a theme park again.



Sure you have a right to be underwhelmed, and you have a right to expect them to build billion dollar E-tickets every time they need to build something new. But that just means you will be disappointed most of the time, and that disappoint isn't going to reflect any actual criticism for Disney to respond to.

Which means, they will keep doing what they do, and you will keep being disappointed. But that's really something for you to figure out.

On the other hand, I'm glad that Disney took the effort to work in more Marvel properties into their parks. I'm glad they have decided to consolidate some of the other Marvel offerings in Hollywoodland into an area that is thematically appropriate for them. they also took a ride that I have almost no interest in visiting (its tough to be a bug) and turned it into something I would definitely want to ride again.

And even if you absolutely hate Spiderman and Marvel, you would at least see some value in regaining some capacity from a facility that was sitting mostly empty every day. It should make the lines shorter elsewhere for you.

Overall, I am still really happy that Disney continues to invest in their parks. In projects big and small.
I’m happy they incorporated it too, but without the Quinjet ride, this opening is still a massive misfire. And the press regarding the opening has been negative as well.
 

J4546

Well-Known Member
I could see some form of very valid criticism being levied against Disney's marketing strategies for sure. They overhype on basically everything coming out of the parks... even a new churro.

But continually holding everything to the standard of "WDI can do better" is a surefire path to disappointment. Of course WDI can do better. They could have built a full Marvel park if asked to. But that wasn't the scope of the project. Every project from the creation of Disneyland itself has been a compromise between blue sky ideas and the realities of completion.

Would anyone really be willing to argue that Disneyland was a huge disappointment at opening, because they had to wait 12 years for Pirates to open?
i agree. This is phase 1 of a land that will continue to be built out for years to come, just like everything else that disney has done, it will get better and better over time. I think it adds a solid 1.5-2 hours of fun to CA as a whole, makes it closer to being an all day park for me.

also everyone ive talked to that been into the land loved it so far, and their kids loved it even more.

everyone on this site would hate disneyland back when it first opened, it was a small park with not much in it....but it grew and grew and now is pretty spectacular.
 
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el_super

Well-Known Member
Again, I think it is fair to expect the top of the line in theme park design at its best in the main new attraction of the most expensive invested and acquired media for the company to use in their theme park land outside of Star Wars Galaxy's edge.

I think it's fair to want more, but it just doesn't make sense to me to dismiss what is already there, based on what could be. Maybe it's a valid concern that they didn't budget a billion dollar plus new Marvel land, and rip out all of Tomorrowland to do it. But that doesn't change how I feel about what they did add.

You can call it a bandwagon or be frustrated with the fact that the majority of people are unimpressed and some really dislike it. But so far, that is the consensus.

The consensus here maybe, but the VQ being full, again, on a weekday, says otherwise.

If this ends up being as hated as Midway Mania was when it opened, it will be a huge success for Disney.
 

Nirya

Well-Known Member
I could see some form of very valid criticism being levied against Disney's marketing strategies for sure. They overhype on basically everything coming out of the parks... even a new churro.

But continually holding everything to the standard of "WDI can do better" is a surefire path to disappointment. Of course WDI can do better. They could have built a full Marvel park if asked to. But that wasn't the scope of the project. Every project from the creation of Disneyland itself has been a compromise between blue sky ideas and the realities of completion.

Would anyone really be willing to argue that Disneyland was a huge disappointment at opening, because they had to wait 12 years for Pirates to open?

I think it is absolutely fair to look at what was presented and be disappointed in what we're seeing. To that end, saying "oh, they couldn't do a better job because they had to deal with a shrinking budget" is not a statement that deflects criticism but should lead to more, because you can compare what Disney is doing to what a Universal is doing, or even what Knotts is doing, and see that Disney is hurting themselves with those choices. Disney has been cutting their budgets, overpromising and underdelivering for a few years now, which is a huge problem and is going to cause people to react negatively.

Your last sentance here doesn't act like a good comparison like you might think. People on opening day would not be disappointed that PotC was not open because PotC was not even a concept, let alone an announced ride. The better comparison would be if opening day rolled around and Jungle Cruise, Mine Train, and half of Fantasyland were not ready to open, and would not be ready for half a year at the earliest.

If you tell your potential guests that you are going to build something, and show off early concept art, it is not unreasonable for those guests to then expect you to deliver on that promise instead of hemming and hawing and "oh, it might be in phase 2"ing things. You can't even blame the pandemic for this; Avengers Campus was slated to open last summer, and prior to the pandemic they had not started any construction on any potential E-ticket.

Also, stating that a thing is popular (especially in the opening week) does not imply that it is good. All it implies is that it is new and shiny and that Disney fans, who are preconditioned to come out and experience new and shiny things, are doing what they have always done. Pointing to Boarding Groups being grabbed up quickly during a time where the resort is at reduced capacity (and the land itself is limiting guests as well) also doesn't support this notion.

I think my main criticism of Avengers Campus as-is is that this is a prominent example of Disney willingly sacrificing the quality of their offerings in the name of saving money. The Marvel franchise has made over $29 billion and is one of the tentpole franchises for the company, and yet Disney decided to cut instead of spend. That's on them, and it is completely reasonable to be critical of that decision and the resulting land.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I think it's fair to want more, but it just doesn't make sense to me to dismiss what is already there, based on what could be. Maybe it's a valid concern that they didn't budget a billion dollar plus new Marvel land, and rip out all of Tomorrowland to do it. But that doesn't change how I feel about what they did add.



The consensus here maybe, but the VQ being full, again, on a weekday, says otherwise.

If this ends up being as hated as Midway Mania was when it opened, it will be a huge success for Disney.

I guess it depends on how you define success. Virtual queue is the only way they are doing it now, so it is difficult to say what it would be like if it had a standby only. There is the downtime of a new ride that tends to be higher than normal, so it is not easy to see how popular it is by boarding groups only just yet. Profitable? Maybe and likely but who knows if compared to what Disney wants it to be. All things considered in the industry, it is not going to make any waves in a world where big items are opening up post pandemic. It is also one brand new ride in an entirely new land. Spiderman at Universal with its line reaching over a two hour wait of a ride that is 22 years old with a high hourly capacity and still celebrated is far more telling of something successful on the same character. The sure is not helping the comparisons either. Cedar Point just opened up a river expedition. Nothing high tech, the performers even have to actually drive the boat. It is a call back to the Jungle Cruise style rides that they had with narrated boat tours of faux encounters and scenery. It is getting some pretty high praise, and people compare it to Jungle Cruise as it is only natural to do. Disney knew that their spidey on another coast, would get compared to one of the most famous and loved theme park attractions on the planet that feature that same character.


Your first comment with the portion I quoted in bold makes no sense. That would invalidate a critique on everything.

Why are you allowed to have your opinion, but others are not allowed to have theirs? Just because you disagree with the majority of an audience select or not.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
I think it is absolutely fair to look at what was presented and be disappointed in what we're seeing. To that end, saying "oh, they couldn't do a better job because they had to deal with a shrinking budget" is not a statement that deflects criticism but should lead to more, because you can compare ...

I don't think this is a matter of a shrinking budget, just something smaller being delivered and Disney Marketing not having the ability to market something as a smaller offering. It's just not in their lexicon.

I don't think that at any part of this process the ride replacing bugs was ever meant to be anything but an ancillary C-Ticket. If it gets promoted as something bigger, that's definitely a problem, but it shouldnt diminish what was actually built. The world still needs smaller attractions, and not everything can be a blockbuster E-Ticket.

If you tell your potential guests that you are going to build something, and show off early concept art, it is not unreasonable for those guests to then expect you to deliver on that promise instead of hemming and hawing and "oh, it might be in phase 2"ing things.

Wait was something promised on the Web Slingers that wasn't delivered, or are you just Holding it responsible for the lack of E Ticket?

That's the part I still don't understand: suggesting that Web Slingers should be rated more harshly because of some other exterior factor. Like being disappointed that you got a car for christmas instead of a house. The car would still be an amazing gift.


Also, stating that a thing is popular (especially in the opening week) does not imply that it is good.

Thats true, but since I actually wouldn't mind more attempts to ride it myself, I very pessimistically will assume that the ride will be packed with guests for months to come.

Disney decided to cut instead of spend. That's on them, and it is completely reasonable to be critical of that decision and the resulting land.

Maybe... If they cancel the Avengers E Ticket. But until then I will only ever judge this for what it was: a project to replace an underutilized area of the park. In that it was highly successful.

They can always tear out more and add more Marvel down the road.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
What does that even mean? That every addition has to be a billion dollar super expansion to be worthy of existing? Clearly adding another Cars Land was not the goal of Avengers Campus and it would be silly to think it should have been.
Except you also tell us how the franchise mandate is the best business position for Disney because it’s what people want. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is Disney’s biggest franchise, so by the logic of the franchise mandate it not only warrants, but demands, a larger budget and scope.

But continually holding everything to the standard of "WDI can do better" is a surefire path to disappointment. Of course WDI can do better. They could have built a full Marvel park if asked to. But that wasn't the scope of the project. Every project from the creation of Disneyland itself has been a compromise between blue sky ideas and the realities of completion.
Walt Disney Imagineering absolutely should deliver more with the huge amounts of money being spent. The scope and the cost do not align. More program and ideas absolutely should have made it to reality. Return on investment continues to get worse and the strategy of spending more and more for less, no matter if it is tied to the biggest franchises, is going to be sustainable.
 

MarvelCharacterNerd

Well-Known Member
The land and ride are a massive disappointment.
To you, fair enough. But they are both big wins to me. :) I get a place with tons of characters and shows plus the first new attraction at DLR in a decade that I can ride and enjoy that doesn't give me motion sickness. :) I loved getting to thwip webs at things, trying to figure out what I should shoot at and what I could do in terms of grabbing and pulling things with my webs. I look forward to learning and doing more each time I ride it. Plus I love the physical workout of it.

I literally don't need anything else at Avengers Campus except shade structures - it's all too exposed to sun and rain. And maybe some more food options!

I respect that YMMV. But the land and ride were anything BUT disappointing to me.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
To you, fair enough. But they are both big wins to me. :) I get a place with tons of characters and shows plus the first new attraction at DLR in a decade that I can ride and enjoy that doesn't give me motion sickness. :) I loved getting to thwip webs at things, trying to figure out what I should shoot at and what I could do in terms of grabbing and pulling things with my webs. I look forward to learning and doing more each time I ride it. Plus I love the physical workout of it.

I literally don't need anything else at Avengers Campus except shade structures - it's all too exposed to sun and rain. And maybe some more food options!

I respect that YMMV. But the land and ride were anything BUT disappointing to me.
Hey that's awesome and I'm so happy you had a great time and are happy! Sounds like it was an incredibly enjoyable experience for you.

Best wishes and I'm really glad the ride did not disappoint in your case.
 

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