WDW's non-MK parks' identities fading?

[mharrington]

Disney Magic doesn't have to always include characters and Pixie Dust, I've always said that.


Originality is the real magic.

Yeah, but tell that to the people in charge of Disney now, who don't believe in originality.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yeah, but tell that to the people in charge of Disney now, who don't believe in originality.

That's the sad thing...They don't want to take the "risk".

 

[mharrington]

That's the sad thing...They don't want to take the "risk".

Yes, we know only too well that "risks" means having to spend money, money that they just can't seem to part with.

 

[Lucky]

The Living Seas: More educational about our oceans not as much about the future. Now it is a Pixar ride.

I just don't see how you can really call this Future World anymore when it is now really only 20% about the future. In 1982 it was probably 90% about the future. So in my opinion Future World is already dead.

Nemo is relevant to the future. In the future we'll be getting more and more Nemo attractions.

 

[mcjaco]

I don't see how slapping Nemo all over TLS is the right direction?

Do you not realize that pavilion is now packed with people? I'd say that is the right direction.

Soarin' only fits EPCOT because it's part of a greater "The Land" experience. Standing alone, yeah, it's pointless.

It's pointless in The Land. I hate that ride, and what it took away from The Land, and how it's destroyed sight lines within WS. I wish it would collapse in on itself. Such a pointless, overated ride. *getting off my soap box*

Another fit Soarin has in FW is that the ride system at the time was break through.

FW was never about break through ride systems. You're missing the point.

That's the sad thing...They don't want to take the "risk".

And yet there's a large group that wants Dreamfinder back, Horizons, SSE '94, Communicore, etc. How is that taking risks?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yes, we know only too well that "risks" means having to spend money, money that they just can't seem to part with.

They used to EXCELL at this, that's the sad thing. Then, with no upkeep and less funding for such attractions, new management thinks they are broken, and puts something generic in.

If they were to do new things on the same scale as the old....we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Do you not realize that pavilion is now packed with people? I'd say that is the right direction.



It's pointless in The Land. I hate that ride, and what it took away from The Land, and how it's destroyed sight lines within WS. I wish it would collapse in on itself. Such a pointless, overated ride. *getting off my soap box*



FW was never about break through ride systems. You're missing the point.



And yet there's a large group that wants Dreamfinder back, Horizons, SSE '94, Communicore, etc. How is that taking risks?

In there eyes, it's a risk, for reasons I don't know. Make it lavish, immersive, fun, people will eat it up.

Your Soapbox is fine. :lol: I get on mine for Nemo.

Now there's a ride that has no place in FUTURE World, if I ever saw one.

 

[Figment632]

Do you not realize that pavilion is now packed with people? I'd say that is the right direction.

I think you are missing the point. The fact that there are people there has nothing to do with the message and theme of FW being on life support.




FW was never about break through ride systems. You're missing the point.

It was about new tech and this ride system was the first of its kind :wave:

 

[urbanvegan]

I think part of the issue here is that the Magic Kingdom doesn't have a theme of it's own. It is a patchwork of overlapping narratives that are supposed to compliment each other. Due to the fact that there are many "lands" that each have their own character working together that the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Animal Kingdom also works along these lines as closely as it can which aids in the park's ability to tell a story. This works well for all of the Disneyland-style parks around the globe, as well as for DisneySea.

Epcot's Future World and the Studios as a whole aren't broken up into enough pieces that have individual thematic elements within defined spaces to create the patchwork effect that the other parks enjoy. This is not to say that they aren't enjoyable taken as they are.

The "future" theme at Epcot just kind of gets lost (and some of it like Imagination and The Land were never really "futuristic" anyway) since most of them apart from Horizons have always been more interested in talking about the past - albeit with nods to the future. I think for Epcot, a lot of issues could be alleviated just by dropping the "Future World" moniker. It has always been a place of discovery, so just play off of that.

The Studios has a bigger identity problem though - but it has pretty much always been that way.

 

[mcjaco]

I get on mine for Nemo.

Now there's a ride that has no place in FUTURE World, if I ever saw one.

Do I miss Sea Base Alpha? Heck yes! But that pavilion was turning into an eyesore, and was a ghost town. Adding Nemo was the easiest way to have gain more traction with the GP. And it has. FW has always been about teaching. That pavilion, even with Nemo and his Friends, does just that. It's just geared more for kids now, than the foreboding Kathleen Turner narration. Seriously, that movie scared the poo poo out of me as a kid.

I think you are missing the point. The fact that there are people there has nothing to do with the message and theme of FW being on life support.

We keep going around on this in various threads, and you can never spell out how FW is on life support. In the past three years, FW has seen an incredible turn around, and we have multiple updates on changes going on right now. I fail to see how you can see that as "life support."

It was about new tech and this ride system was the first of its kind :wave:

And that is not what FW is, or was about. Soarin' is an abomination to FW, and especially The Land.

 

[Figment632]

[QUOTE
We keep going around on this in various threads, and you can never spell out how FW is on life support. In the past three years, FW has seen an incredible turn around, and we have multiple updates on changes going on right now. I fail to see how you can see that as "life support."



And that is not what FW is, or was about. Soarin' is an abomination to FW, and especially The Land.[/QUOTE]

Ok if you want to get technical the theme of FW is on life support.

One of FW main goals was show casing new technology as they said in the original opening. I just fail to see how Finding Nemo fits the theme of FW.

 

[jakeman]

One of FW main goals was show casing new technology as they said in the original opening. I just fail to see how Finding Nemo fits the theme of FW.

Turtle Talk seems pretty futuristic.

Before I couldn't talk to turtles or cartoon characters. Now I can do both.

However, I fully understand that there is a very long list of unwritten rules that are ever changing that an Epcot attraction must adhere to, so feel free to enumerate exactly how this pavilion, which is now packed with people of all ages learning together does not fit Epcot.

Oh and just to stay on topic every park has its own identity if you choose to see it.

 

[Figment632]

Turtle Talk seems pretty futuristic.

Before I couldn't talk to turtles or cartoon characters. Now I can do both.

However, I fully understand that there is a very long list of unwritten rules that are ever changing that an Epcot attraction must adhere to, so feel free to enumerate exactly how this pavilion, which is now packed with people of all ages learning together does not fit Epcot.

Oh and just to stay on topic every park has its own identity if you choose to see it.

lol what does the Nemo ride teach you about the Sea's besides that its a big blue world?

The whole its popular argument doesn't explain how Nemo fits. The pro Nemo crowds only argument is that there are people there now. I agree this is good for TLS but it still doesn't change the fact that Nemo doesn't fit in FW?

 

[jakeman]

lol what does the Nemo ride teach you about the Sea's besides that its a big blue world?

The whole its popular argument doesn't explain how Nemo fits. The pro Nemo crowds only argument is that there are people there now. I agree this is good for TLS but it still doesn't change the fact that Nemo doesn't fit in FW?

First, you choose to focus on the part of the attraction that serves as an introduction to the rest of the pavilion. It really is the equivalent of saying the carpet is not futuristic. You are isolating one element and casting a judgement on the whole picture.

Nemo, through Turtle Talk and other interactive displays uses unique and advanced technology to educate people regarding the seas.

How do the Dinosaurs in Universe of Engery fit? Or how did Captain EO fit? Or Ice Station Cool?

 

[Figment632]

First, you choose to focus on the part of the attraction that serves as an introduction to the rest of the pavilion. It really is the equivalent of saying the carpet is not futuristic. You are isolating one element and casting a judgement on the whole picture.

Nemo, through Turtle Talk and other interactive displays uses unique and advanced technology to educate people regarding the seas.

How do the Dinosaurs in Universe of Engery fit? Or how did Captain EO fit? Or Ice Station Cool?

You are right Captin EO should have never been in FW it should have been in TL. I think that iff they wanted to add Nemo it should have been done in a subtle way. If they rethemed the base to be an up to date futurisitic Sea Base and put in TT it would have worked better imo.

I actually like the Nemo ride I just wish they would have put it in PS or DAK :shrug:

 

[mharrington]

And yet there's a large group that wants Dreamfinder back, Horizons, SSE '94, Communicore, etc. How is that taking risks?

Well, who is this "large group" you speak of, anyway?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

It was about new tech and this ride system was the first of its kind :wave:

I gotta say that I agree.

I think part of the issue here is that the Magic Kingdom doesn't have a theme of it's own. It is a patchwork of overlapping narratives that are supposed to compliment each other. Due to the fact that there are many "lands" that each have their own character working together that the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Animal Kingdom also works along these lines as closely as it can which aids in the park's ability to tell a story. This works well for all of the Disneyland-style parks around the globe, as well as for DisneySea.

Epcot's Future World and the Studios as a whole aren't broken up into enough pieces that have individual thematic elements within defined spaces to create the patchwork effect that the other parks enjoy. This is not to say that they aren't enjoyable taken as they are.

The "future" theme at Epcot just kind of gets lost (and some of it like Imagination and The Land were never really "futuristic" anyway) since most of them apart from Horizons have always been more interested in talking about the past - albeit with nods to the future. I think for Epcot, a lot of issues could be alleviated just by dropping the "Future World" moniker. It has always been a place of discovery, so just play off of that.

The Studios has a bigger identity problem though - but it has pretty much always been that way.

True, but the individual attractions are themed to the setting or "name" of the Land. Adventureland and Tomorrowland do this for example...Space Mountain is adventure, but not in Adventureland. It's in Tomorrowland becuase of it's theme. It would be a thin line there to cross, but it's all on the theming. Look at HM/PM in DLP. They've made that into a Frontierland attraction.


Dropping the name would be horrible, IMHO. That kills the theme. It makes it generic. It's giving up.:shrug:

Do I miss Sea Base Alpha? Heck yes! But that pavilion was turning into an eyesore, and was a ghost town. Adding Nemo was the easiest way to have gain more traction with the GP. And it has. FW has always been about teaching. That pavilion, even with Nemo and his Friends, does just that. It's just geared more for kids now, than the foreboding Kathleen Turner narration. Seriously, that movie scared the poo poo out of me as a kid.


.

So easy way out is the right way!? No....Never. At least in my eyes. They could have done a cohesive, NEW SeaBase, or even something new. Not something generic and overused and something that's shoehorned in.


Loved Kathleen Turner. She would have rocked as a SSE Narrator.

Turtle Talk seems pretty futuristic.

Before I couldn't talk to turtles or cartoon characters. Now I can do both.

However, I fully understand that there is a very long list of unwritten rules that are ever changing that an Epcot attraction must adhere to, so feel free to enumerate exactly how this pavilion, which is now packed with people of all ages learning together does not fit Epcot.

Oh and just to stay on topic every park has its own identity if you choose to see it.

That isn't the Future at all...:shrug:

Not even a Fantasy Future, almost like M:S is....It's just Fantasy. The use of a character would be fine, but where is the Future in this Future World Pavilion?

First, you choose to focus on the part of the attraction that serves as an introduction to the rest of the pavilion. It really is the equivalent of saying the carpet is not futuristic. You are isolating one element and casting a judgement on the whole picture.

Nemo, through Turtle Talk and other interactive displays uses unique and advanced technology to educate people regarding the seas.

How do the Dinosaurs in Universe of Engery fit? Or how did Captain EO fit? Or Ice Station Cool?

Slightly. It's no where near as informative as the old one.


And Dinos in UoE? Easy. Part of the story. EO? Part of a greater Imagination Pavilion experience, much like Soarin'. Ice Station? CommuniCore...AKA Sponsor land. I never minded it.

Now, I know what you are going to say....that Nemo is part of the story. Which it is. But it's not the right story, IMHO, for a place that focuses on "Where we are going and where we have been"

(That's from Walt Disney's EPCOT- Creating the New World of Tomorrow")

 

[Lucky]

I'm not saying whether it's good or bad for an MK-type attraction like Nemo to be in FW or DHS. I'm just saying it blurs the differences between the parks, for better or worse.

 

[EpcotServo]

Contrary to popular flib-fabbing, I think it's pretty clear once you spend a lot of time in the parks you start to really pick up on the individuality and identity of the parks. Truth is that, of all parks, Studios has the MOST identity of any of the four theme parks. At it's worst, everything in the park is distinctly Studios. Having made it a point to see attractions from Studios placed abroad, they really miss something. Tower and Muppets (All of the Hollywood Pictures Backlot) are missing some intrinsic element which makes the oddity feel at home. I think that's because of Studios' growth and warmth. It's been developed in a way so unique compared to any of the other parks, and something about the age of the landscape, and the way Streetmosphere and Cast Members really feel in place that gives Studios an extremely unique identity.

See, I think it's a grave mistake to label something Dynamic and Random as something "Without Identity and lacking focus."

A lot of HUMANS are random, doesn't mean they lack identity. That is their identity, and it's what makes them special.
:shrug:

Next up is Animal Kingdom, which has the most focused Identity. You can't see it if all you do is stare blindly, it takes a real open mind to start to dechyper the feeling and emotion of the park into the statements it's trying to make.

EPCOT is less indivivual since by nature it's halved in two. EPCOT is more of a unique place, always updating it's face to meet the times.

But of course, the most indivual park in the world is Disneyland.

When you're in Disneyland, You KNOW you're in Disneyland.
:sohappy:

 

[Figment632]

I gotta say that I agree.

True, but the individual attractions are themed to the setting or "name" of the Land. Adventureland and Tomorrowland do this for example...Space Mountain is adventure, but not in Adventureland. It's in Tomorrowland becuase of it's theme. It would be a thin line there to cross, but it's all on the theming. Look at HM/PM in DLP. They've made that into a Frontierland attraction.


Dropping the name would be horrible, IMHO. That kills the theme. It makes it generic. It's giving up.:shrug:

So easy way out is the right way!? No....Never. At least in my eyes. They could have done a cohesive, NEW SeaBase, or even something new. Not something generic and overused and something that's shoehorned in.


Loved Kathleen Turner. She would have rocked as a SSE Narrator.
That isn't the Future at all...:shrug:

Not even a Fantasy Future, almost like M:S is....It's just Fantasy. The use of a character would be fine, but where is the Future in this Future World Pavilion?

Slightly. It's no where near as informative as the old one.


And Dinos in UoE? Easy. Part of the story. EO? Part of a greater Imagination Pavilion experience, much like Soarin'. Ice Station? CommuniCore...AKA Sponsor land. I never minded it.

Now, I know what you are going to say....that Nemo is part of the story. Which it is. But it's not the right story, IMHO, for a place that focuses on "Where we are going and where we have been"

(That's from Walt Disney's EPCOT- Creating the New World of Tomorrow")

You are dead on about Epcot Evan, you can't be a true Epcot fan and be okay with how Nemo was used in TLS. It is not the simple fact that they used him it was the way in which they chose to.