News WDW Resorts to add fees for parking

[rael ramone]

Average guest that price sensitive?

It adds up.

If the price for a WDW trip goes up, like say, 20% in a year (consider across the board increases in room, admission, food, merch, etc), is that family going to have an extra 20% at their disposal? And if they do, are they willing to spend 20% more for the same (or less)...

There are people of all means that budget. Sometimes because there just isn't more available. Others because they have a price that they are willing to contribute to a vacation of that sort and won't exceed it.

But it's more then just the price going up. It's the way it's going up.

Just for fun I did a lookup on the official site. May 1 to May 7. 2 adults 2 kiddies. Room only. $550 a night (standard view - lagoon view unavailable, theme park view $776.). And not counting taxes. $550 x 6 = $3300. Not including tickets, food, plush. Transportation to the Orlando area.

Tack on a resort fee to that. What would they say the fee would cover? And if it's listed that it covers all the 'perks' (monorail, pool, health club AT AN OTHER HOTEL, etc), then what does that $3300 (plus taxes) buy. Not a view of the lagoon. Not the linens & room amenities that one expects at that price point. And if the monorail is part of the 'resort fee', then that $3300 plus tax isn't going towards the monorail. It's going to put what everything the resort offers under a microscope they otherwise wouldn't be...

 

[Chef Mickey]

As to the "are they resorts?" question about the Values, I'd bet Disney would say anything on their property is a resort, whether they're essentially motels or even the campgrounds. They have to find some kind of verbiage to justify "resort fees" if/when they come to pass.

And why wouldn't they? You don't have to bet anything...they do call them All Star Sports/Movies/Music Resort.

And to me at least, those provide a good value to be close to the parks, bus service, and a Disney themed experience. Is it essentially a decorated Motel 6? Maybe in the structural design, but where would you rather stay? You're paying for the location, the experience, and the Disney brand. And you'll certainly get a better experience...

 

[rael ramone]

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/07/new...ember-expectations-for-resort-and-wi-fi-fees/

Imagine the GF being dropped down to a 3 star.... or the All Stars (or even a moderate with construction going on) dropping down to a 2.

 

[ford91exploder]

This is probably the primary reason I want fewer people at Disney. I don't want people going to Disney who are mad before they go about "how expensive it is." That's actually why I want to price those people completely out. There is nothing more annoying than complainers while you're on vacation. You hear it there all the time, particularly on the buses after a long day at the parks with a lot of spending.

People are nasty, unfortunately. Look how people act when they don't get their way in politics. Ultimately, I just want to go to Disney to have fun and be a kid. If it costs a little more, I'm happy to pay it because I know I'm getting a great experience with a great cast. The way I hear people speaking to cast members makes me physically sick at times. Those are the kind of people I want limited.

Or just perhaps TWDC could stop trying to squeeze every last dollar from every possible customer, Limit admissions and fully staff rides and dining venues.

Because a lot of us who have STOPPED going to the parks are IN Disney's desired financial demographic but we no longer see the VALUE in a place being run like a 'going out of business sale'

How many thousand customers walk out of a Disney park daily who WOULD have paid for a TS meal but because of a lack of CAPACITY they did not. Last meal I had in a Disney park was in the village haus QS and because of a lack of seating DW and I ate on top of a trash can. NOT A PREMIUM EXPERIENCE by any means. Would I have paid for TS that day, YES but no availability.

That's the problem with the nuts to butts crowding, Yes Park Ops gets lots of admission dollars but the guests get a subpar experience which means they are less willing to spend money (or Return).

 

[RobbinsDad]

I think some people at Disney troll a lot of the message board whiners who fail to realize Disney is a for profit business. Harsh reality, businesses try things based on bad ideas sometimes. Oh well, they try, they fail, they move on. You can sit and complain all day about "cash grabs" or whatever but you arent going to change it and do nothing but make yourself miserable in the process. Can we be critical of decisions made? Sure. But, geez the incessant whining by some of you has got o amuse people at Disney.

Typically when a business takes steps to maximize cash flow while minimizing innovation in its products, they're in the maturity phase of the business product life cycle. Disney Parks are no longer in growth phase. They're being propped up by hot intellectual properties, driving demand for park attendance. They're hoarding cash and investing as little as possible in the parks. This is a sign that the smart folks in charge understand where their business is positioned and that it won't last forever. I don't think anyone at Disney who gets this is laughing. In fact, I'd say they're worried, not because rising prices will drive people away, but future ambivalence toward their products might.

 

[contrariwise]

Are you sure the 'Tall Whites' are not involved somehow...

Pretty sure the Tall Grays are to blame.

 

[ford91exploder]

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/07/new...ember-expectations-for-resort-and-wi-fi-fees/

Imagine the GF being dropped down to a 3 star.... or the All Stars (or even a moderate with construction going on) dropping down to a 2.

Trouble is Disney THINKS it's the Honey Badger of the hospitality industry. Honey Badger don't care what the guests think, They are tourists and what do they know...

 

[Chef Mickey]

It adds up.

If the price for a WDW trip goes up, like say, 20% in a year (consider across the board increases in room, admission, food, merch, etc), is that family going to have an extra 20% at their disposal? And if they do, are they willing to spend 20% more for the same (or less)...

There are people of all means that budget. Sometimes because there just isn't more available. Others because they have a price that they are willing to contribute to a vacation of that sort and won't exceed it.

But it's more then just the price going up. It's the way it's going up.

Just for fun I did a lookup on the official site. May 1 to May 7. 2 adults 2 kiddies. Room only. $550 a night (standard view - lagoon view unavailable, theme park view $776.). And not counting taxes. $550 x 6 = $3300. Not including tickets, food, plush. Transportation to the Orlando area.

Tack on a resort fee to that. What would they say the fee would cover? And if it's listed that it covers all the 'perks' (monorail, pool, health club AT AN OTHER HOTEL, etc), then what does that $3300 (plus taxes) buy. Not a view of the lagoon. Not the linens & room amenities that one expects at that price point. And if the monorail is part of the 'resort fee', then that $3300 plus tax isn't going towards the monorail. It's going to put what everything the resort offers under a microscope they otherwise wouldn't be...

When you spend $1 at Disney Parks, how much profit do you think they make from that $1?

 

[rael ramone]

Or just perhaps TWDC could stop trying to squeeze every last dollar from every possible customer, Limit admissions and fully staff rides and dining venues.

Because a lot of us who have STOPPED going to the parks are IN Disney's desired financial demographic but we no longer see the VALUE in a place being run like a 'going out of business sale'

How many thousand customers walk out of a Disney park daily who WOULD have paid for a TS meal but because of a lack of CAPACITY they did not. Last meal I had in a Disney park was in the village haus QS and because of a lack of seating DW and I ate on top of a trash can. NOT A PREMIUM EXPERIENCE by any means. Would I have paid for TS that day, YES but no availability.

That's the problem with the nuts to butts crowding, Yes Park Ops gets lots of admission dollars but the guests get a subpar experience which means they are less willing to spend money (or Return).

I think I know the answer to this, but unless it was peak season, did *no availability* mean no empty tables at the TS, or no tables that they were prepared to fill because they sparsely staffed the place...

With the Mouse Arrest Bands and My Magic Minus, less crowds doesn't necessarily mean more availability or shorter lines... the 'benefit' of less people in the parks is much more likely going to be enjoyed by $DIS reducing staffing and not the guest....

 

[ford91exploder]

Typically when a business takes steps to maximize cash flow while minimizing innovation in its products, they're in the maturity phase of the business product life cycle. Disney Parks are no longer in growth phase. They're being propped up by hot intellectual properties, driving demand for park attendance. They're hoarding cash and investing as little as possible in the parks. This is a sign that the smart folks in charge understand where their business is positioned and that it won't last forever. I don't think anyone at Disney who gets this is laughing. In fact, I'd say they're worried, not because rising prices will drive people away, but future ambivalence toward their products might.

You have forgotten the alternative explanation for scenarios like this i.e. the executives are looting the company treasury. Disney at the moment is AWASH in Cash yet they are not hoarding it they are pumping the stock at the top of the market because their incentive compensation plans are tied to the stock price.

Yet down the road there is a similar enterprise which is INVESTING in the SAME core business and business model and their financials for that division put Disney's to shame. So the 'mature' business model is frankly a red herring whilst Iger and Company loot Disney.

I pity the NEXT TWDC management team because they will have nothing in the tank to rebuild with and frankly I expect a blaze of lawsuits against the old executive team.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think I know the answer to this, but unless it was peak season, did *no availability* mean no empty tables at the TS, or no tables that they were prepared to fill because they sparsely staffed the place...

With the Mouse Arrest Bands and My Magic Minus, less crowds doesn't necessarily mean more availability or shorter lines... the 'benefit' of less people in the parks is much more likely going to be enjoyed by $DIS reducing staffing and not the guest....

As you probably guessed, No tables that they were prepared to fill Disney is the only restauranteur in the known universe where when the dining room is OPEN and full of empty tables they will turn you away.

(With the possible exception of 'exclusive' French restaurants...)

 

[RobbinsDad]

You have forgotten the alternative explanation for scenarios like this i.e. the executives are looting the company treasury. Disney at the moment is AWASH in Cash yet they are not hoarding it they are pumping the stock at the top of the market because their incentive compensation plans are tied to the stock price.

Yet down the road there is a similar enterprise which is INVESTING in the SAME core business and business model and their financials for that division put Disney's to shame. So the 'mature' business model is frankly a red herring whilst Iger and Company loot Disney.

I pity the NEXT TWDC management team because they will have nothing in the tank to rebuild with and frankly I expect a blaze of lawsuits against the old executive team.

I hope that's not true but if it is I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[ford91exploder]

I hope that's not true but if it is I wouldn't be surprised.

Disney spent 9 BILLION dollars on stock buybacks last fiscal year. They only have about 6 weeks of cash in the bank according to their last 10-K, What other explanation fits?

There is nothing inherently WRONG with stock buybacks but with plant and equipment literally falling apart and construction for even the simplest items (the 2 year Gazebo) for example Disney is simply pumping the stock price and the primary beneficiaries are Iger and his team. I dumped my Disney stock which I held for YEARS except for one symbolic share because I've been in tech for a long time and when a company spends MOST of it's cash on buybacks at the top of the market the implosion is inevitable.

 

[Laketravis]

Disney spent 9 BILLION dollars on stock buybacks last fiscal year. They only have about 6 weeks of cash in the bank according to their last 10-K, What other explanation fits?

There is nothing inherently WRONG with stock buybacks but with plant and equipment literally falling apart and construction for even the simplest items (the 2 year Gazebo) for example Disney is simply pumping the stock price and the primary beneficiaries are Iger and his team. I dumped my Disney stock which I held for YEARS except for one symbolic share because I've been in tech for a long time and when a company spends MOST of it's cash on buybacks at the top of the market the implosion is inevitable.

Excellent observation perhaps both missed and misunderstood by most.

 

[ford91exploder]

Excellent observation perhaps both missed and misunderstood by most.

Sounds like you've been there too then

 

[flynnibus]

Typically when a business takes steps to maximize cash flow while minimizing innovation in its products, they're in the maturity phase of the business product life cycle. Disney Parks are no longer in growth phase. They're being propped up by hot intellectual properties, driving demand for park attendance. They're hoarding cash and investing as little as possible in the parks. This is a sign that the smart folks in charge understand where their business is positioned and that it won't last forever. I don't think anyone at Disney who gets this is laughing. In fact, I'd say they're worried, not because rising prices will drive people away, but future ambivalence toward their products might.

That's what Disney was thinking when they went nextgen instead of new attractions... and what black rock was doing with universal.

Then WWoHP went live and proved them all wrong. Showed how merchandise and food could be tightly integrated... how immersion wins... and that an immersive single land can turn a full property around.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Or just perhaps TWDC could stop trying to squeeze every last dollar from every possible customer, Limit admissions and fully staff rides and dining venues.

Because a lot of us who have STOPPED going to the parks are IN Disney's desired financial demographic but we no longer see the VALUE in a place being run like a 'going out of business sale'

How many thousand customers walk out of a Disney park daily who WOULD have paid for a TS meal but because of a lack of CAPACITY they did not. Last meal I had in a Disney park was in the village haus QS and because of a lack of seating DW and I ate on top of a trash can. NOT A PREMIUM EXPERIENCE by any means. Would I have paid for TS that day, YES but no availability.

That's the problem with the nuts to butts crowding, Yes Park Ops gets lots of admission dollars but the guests get a subpar experience which means they are less willing to spend money (or Return).

Oh believe me, I have advocated them artificially limiting the people allowed in the parks with hard limits. Unfortunately, they just aren't going to do this as a for profit business. They've done the next logical thing which is demand based pricing, but I think they'll have to make it meaningfully more aggressive to get people to stop coming in droves (while also maintaining revenue expectations).

You're an example of someone that is unfortunately fed up and I can't blame you. I haven't gotten to that point because I still see the value, but you're right. Current management has done a poor job of expanding and offering the same experiences we were used to getting the 20 years prior to Iger's regime.

They've made some big announcements, so let's see what Star Wars, Avatar, Pixar, etc bring. It will surely bring more crowds, so I think you'll see pricing increase from here.

 

[Laketravis]

Sounds like you've been there too then

Got the T-shirt

 

[Chef Mickey]

Disney spent 9 BILLION dollars on stock buybacks last fiscal year. They only have about 6 weeks of cash in the bank according to their last 10-K, What other explanation fits?

There is nothing inherently WRONG with stock buybacks but with plant and equipment literally falling apart and construction for even the simplest items (the 2 year Gazebo) for example Disney is simply pumping the stock price and the primary beneficiaries are Iger and his team. I dumped my Disney stock which I held for YEARS except for one symbolic share because I've been in tech for a long time and when a company spends MOST of it's cash on buybacks at the top of the market the implosion is inevitable.

Buybacks are done with the assumption it's "excess" cash not needed to run the business. We can argue that all day long, but Disney's position is they are only buying back shares with money it's not using for maintenance, R&D, and other capital expenditures. The did open Shanghai Disney and build 2 new cruise ships.

I don't know...it's a tough sell. Ultimately you could spend everything on capital expenditures at parks, but there is always a budget. I would like to see them spend several billion at WDW and I think we are/will see that soon.

 

[wdisney9000]

I think some people at Disney troll a lot of the message board whiners who fail to realize Disney is a for profit business. Harsh reality, businesses try things based on bad ideas sometimes. Oh well, they try, they fail, they move on. You can sit and complain all day about "cash grabs" or whatever but you arent going to change it and do nothing but make yourself miserable in the process. Can we be critical of decisions made? Sure. But, geez the incessant whining by some of you has got o amuse people at Disney.

You fail to understand, (or just ignore) the underlying issues and mindset that are at the core of all the "cash grabs" and how it is slowly pigeonholing the OVERALL product/experience.

The "whiners" that you and others are so bothered by are most likely the only reason the current management has not gone full tilt on diluting everything down to profit while ignoring the product and ideologies that were so carefully nurtured over the years and which are the very reason they,(current mgmt) are able to profit so much from their current position. Their inability to successfully implement quality themed entertainment or create revenue streams not born of nickel and dime strategies is defended by all those who claim the ridiculously obvious and extremely sophomoric logic of, "Disney is a business".

Disney has ALWAYS been a business. It was just at one time a business that was ran in such a unique fashion and so far from the standard practices that it was propelled to a level never seen before. Now it is ran by men and woman who lack any form of skill required to ADD to the legacy, so they shred every piece of profit they can from it while they are in charge.