twilight mitsuk
Well-Known Member
mnsshp starting july 31st is probably next
As my earlier post showed, a 3-day WDW park hopper ticket for an offsite Guest was $35 (including tax) in 1983, roughly the same as what you mention a King's Island Season pass cost in 1985.As a side comparison.. in 1985 a Kings Island Season Pass was $29.99. I think they’re around $115-$120 today...with a whole bunch of add on options now.lol.. But, even back then the KI Pass was considered “expensive”.
Universal is promoting a pay for 12 months, get 15 months AP pass pretty hard. I’m glad we live close by so we can go over for a short time, enjoy ourselves with the 3 FastPass and leave after a short time. It’s interesting watching people run from one thing to another because everything is so planned out and the parks are packed. It’s interesting that the parking fees aren’t reverse. Give the people staying at deluxeca break and give them the least expensive parking fee.
As my earlier post showed, a 3-day WDW park hopper ticket for an offsite Guest was $35 (including tax) in 1983, roughly the same as what you mention a King's Island Season pass cost in 1985.
Today, a 3-park hopper costs $394, an 11-fold increase, much, much higher than the 4-fold increase you mention for King's Island.
My local Six Flags offers a season pass (and they are open for Christmas so "season" covers most of the year) for $55 when purchasing 4 or more.
It could be argued that today's WDW offers more parks than it did in 1983 but, realistically, it takes about 2 days to experience the Magic Kingdom and a third day to experience Epcot, so you're not getting any more "value" for today's 3-day ticket. Realistically, a 5-day ticket is needed to experience all four parks. A 5-day ticket costs $500 with tax.
I spent 4 straight days visiting the Magic Kingdom earlier this month. Frankly, today's higher crowd levels make it challenging to experience all of the Magic Kingdom in 2 days, something that was easy to do in the old days. Even attractions such as IASW and TTA, which used to be walk-ons, had long lines. My DW took photos of the Splash Mountain "FastPass+" line extending all the way to Pico Bills! And it wasn't even Easter week!
There was small bits of garbage on the ground everywhere. I sat on a bench and watched over a dozen Cast Members walk past paper napkins on the ground, something that would have been unthinkable in the 1970s or 1980s.
I gave WDW a score of 87 for the year 2017 but, in many ways, I'm being generous when I think about what it was like decades ago.
Some basic numbers:Do those percentages have any real dollar numbers attached to them. I ask that because just percentage points do not really tell the story. For example, if your household income started at 100.00 and went up to $200. It went up 100% and if prices went from $50. at 280% that would be $140.00. Percentages mean nothing without beginning and ending actual numbers. Those in the top 1% not only kept up, but, they massively surpassed what was needed. Even average folks went from $100.00 to $200.00 also surpassing that figure. Now I know that actual numbers might change that outlook, but, it is vital to know what those numbers are in actuality. I think that average wages have stayed quite consistent if for no other reason then the fact that the attendance has gotten higher. In those earlier days it was hard to pay for a WDW vacation even at the lower admission prices. If I am missing something in my figuring please tell me what it is.
The example I use most often is room prices at the Polynesian and the Contemporary:I don’t disagree with your graphs at all.. I just think back to when I was a kid, we went to Disney and various amusement parks, they were never viewed as inexpensive trips to my parents. The graph makes it look like “anyone/everyone has always been able to do Disney” that’s the part where I’m agreeing with @Goofyernmost, because that’s not really how it was.
When speaking to Guest Services at Disney about the email I sent; they said golf carts didn't count toward the fee. Even though I don't stay at the cabins I told them it was bad taste to charge to park a car when each cabin has its own dedicated parking spot.What if you park a golf cart and car at a FW cabin?
At least we are in agreement that Disney is out of line with the charges, I don't disagree with that nor to I support or condone it. However, my argument is still the same. So what? As long as the public is willing to be robbed there is nothing immoral or illegal about it. It is their right to charge whatever they want to charge. No one is owed a day or week or weeks at a Disney Resort. It does not follow any pattern of cost of living, nor should it with this reason... As long as we pay it, it is what it is worth to us. It is no more upsetting then the difference between a Ford Focus and a Rolls Royce. Both get us from point A to point B. Yet, one is inexpensive and the other is insanely expensive, but, it still only has only one main purpose and that is the A to B adventure. I appreciate your charts, but, all they do is offer a false comparison because there is absolutely nothing that can be considered life threatening about not going to Disney. We don't need it to sustain life, it is a pure luxury commodity and all the comparisons in the world do not really mean anything. The option we have is to either pay and go or not pay and don't go. If the numbers for the later are large enough to swing the pendulum the other way, then the basic economic figures will kick in and Disney will be forced to bring prices down or crumble. With a major economic downturn that can and will happen. In the meantime our only options are to pay up and shut up or find some other better use for our dollars.The example I use most often is room prices at the Polynesian and the Contemporary:
View attachment 272789
Adjusted for inflation, that $29/night rate (tax included) for the Contemporary and Polynesian comes out to $174/night today.
Even the $44/night rate for the most expensive room converts to $263/night in 2017.
For the average family in 1971, these were not cheap prices. Heck, for the average family today, $174/$263 is not cheap. @Goofyernmost is right that WDW was never a "cheap" vacation. What he misses is that, relative to today, it was.
The prices of old pale in comparison to today's actual prices. Today, the least expensive room at the Polynesian averages $645/night. There's a world of difference between $174 and $645 per night.
Remember, there were double-digit price increases in each year from 1984 to 1988. Then prices remained relatively consistent with household income until 2000. It's only been since 2001 that price increases have outpaced income gains by roughly a two-to-one margin. Heck, I was booking rooms at the Contemporary in the low $200s in the early-to-mid 2000s. Today, the Contemporary's least expensive room averages $530/night.
The early 2000s saw some great deals, which helped offset price increases. For example, "Buy Four, Get Three Free" which offered a 7-day ticket and 7 nights in an onsite hotel for the price of 4. 2005 saw the introduction of the a al carte Magic Your Way ticket, which created an entry-level option for Guests sensitive to cost.
However, since 2005, price increases have been relentless while today's "discounts" are being offered on prices that have far outpaced income or inflation. Today's "discounted" hotel room is more expensive than rack rates of only 5-10 years ago.
I agree that a visit to WDW is a luxury item. This doesn't invalidate an analysis of price trends and their impact on consumers.
We are seeing resistance on ticket prices at sporting events. Many "sold" seats are going to corporations. (Watch a New York Yankees home game and observe how many prime seats are empty on weeknights.) Disney does not have the luxury of having corporations buying millions of tickets. Disney needs to respect consumer sentiment.
We happen to be in an economic boom, with consumer confidence at its highest levels since before 9/11. Historically, it's times such as these that consumers spend more freely, including on their vacations. Like all booms, this one will end.
Adding a separate charge for onsite parking (something that Disney was already charging for; it was just was built into the price of the hotel room) is not going to endear Disney to its customers.
As my earlier post showed, a 3-day WDW park hopper ticket for an offsite Guest was $35 (including tax) in 1983, roughly the same as what you mention a King's Island Season pass cost in 1985.
Today, a 3-park hopper costs $394, an 11-fold increase, much, much higher than the 4-fold increase you mention for King's Island.
My local Six Flags offers a season pass (and they are open for Christmas so "season" covers most of the year) for $55 when purchasing 4 or more.
It could be argued that today's WDW offers more parks than it did in 1983 but, realistically, it takes about 2 days to experience the Magic Kingdom and a third day to experience Epcot, so you're not getting any more "value" for today's 3-day ticket. Realistically, a 5-day ticket is needed to experience all four parks. A 5-day ticket costs $500 with tax.
I spent 4 straight days visiting the Magic Kingdom earlier this month. Frankly, today's higher crowd levels make it challenging to experience all of the Magic Kingdom in 2 days, something that was easy to do in the old days. Even attractions such as IASW and TTA, which used to be walk-ons, had long lines. My DW took photos of the Splash Mountain "FastPass+" line extending all the way to Pico Bills! And it wasn't even Easter week!
There were small bits of garbage on the ground everywhere. I sat on a bench and watched over a dozen Cast Members walk past paper napkins on the ground, something that would have been unthinkable in the 1970s or 1980s.
I gave WDW a score of 87 for the year 2017 but, in many ways, I'm being generous when I think about what it was like decades ago.
The example I use most often is room prices at the Polynesian and the Contemporary:
View attachment 272789
Adjusted for inflation, that $29/night rate (tax included) for the Contemporary and Polynesian comes out to $174/night today.
Even the $44/night rate for the most expensive room converts to $263/night in 2017.
For the average family in 1971, these were not cheap prices. Heck, for the average family today, $174/$263 is not cheap. @Goofyernmost is right that WDW was never a "cheap" vacation. What he misses is that, relative to today, it was.
The prices of old pale in comparison to today's actual prices. Today, the least expensive room at the Polynesian averages $645/night. There's a world of difference between $174 and $645 per night.
Remember, there were double-digit price increases in each year from 1984 to 1988. Then prices remained relatively consistent with household income until 2000. It's only been since 2001 that price increases have outpaced income gains by roughly a two-to-one margin. Heck, I was booking rooms at the Contemporary in the low $200s in the early-to-mid 2000s. Today, the Contemporary's least expensive room averages $530/night.
The early 2000s saw some great deals, which helped offset price increases. For example, "Buy Four, Get Three Free" which offered a 7-day ticket and 7 nights in an onsite hotel for the price of 4. 2005 saw the introduction of the a al carte Magic Your Way ticket, which created an entry-level option for Guests sensitive to cost.
However, since 2005, price increases have been relentless while today's "discounts" are being offered on prices that have far outpaced income or inflation. Today's "discounted" hotel room is more expensive than rack rates of only 5-10 years ago.
I agree that a visit to WDW is a luxury item. This doesn't invalidate an analysis of price trends and their impact on consumers.
We are seeing resistance on ticket prices at sporting events. Many "sold" seats are going to corporations. (Watch a New York Yankees home game and observe how many prime seats are empty on weeknights.) Disney does not have the luxury of having corporations buying millions of tickets. Disney needs to respect consumer sentiment.
We happen to be in an economic boom, with consumer confidence at its highest levels since before 9/11. Historically, it's times such as these that consumers spend more freely, including on their vacations. Like all booms, this one will end.
Adding a separate charge for onsite parking (something that Disney was already charging for; it was just was built into the price of the hotel room) is not going to endear Disney to its customers.
Honeymooned at the Contemporary in March 1977 paid $45 /night. Do yo get more for $530 now--- think not
The example I use most often is room prices at the Polynesian and the Contemporary:
View attachment 272789
Adjusted for inflation, that $29/night rate (tax included) for the Contemporary and Polynesian comes out to $174/night today.
Even the $44/night rate for the most expensive room converts to $263/night in 2017.
For the average family in 1971, these were not cheap prices. Heck, for the average family today, $174/$263 is not cheap. @Goofyernmost is right that WDW was never a "cheap" vacation. What he misses is that, relative to today, it was.
The prices of old pale in comparison to today's actual prices. Today, the least expensive room at the Polynesian averages $645/night. There's a world of difference between $174 and $645 per night.
Remember, there were double-digit price increases in each year from 1984 to 1988. Then prices remained relatively consistent with household income until 2000. It's only been since 2001 that price increases have outpaced income gains by roughly a two-to-one margin. Heck, I was booking rooms at the Contemporary in the low $200s in the early-to-mid 2000s. Today, the Contemporary's least expensive room averages $530/night.
The early 2000s saw some great deals, which helped offset price increases. For example, "Buy Four, Get Three Free" which offered a 7-day ticket and 7 nights in an onsite hotel for the price of 4. 2005 saw the introduction of the a al carte Magic Your Way ticket, which created an entry-level option for Guests sensitive to cost.
However, since 2005, price increases have been relentless while today's "discounts" are being offered on prices that have far outpaced income or inflation. Today's "discounted" hotel room is more expensive than rack rates of only 5-10 years ago.
I agree that a visit to WDW is a luxury item. This doesn't invalidate an analysis of price trends and their impact on consumers.
We are seeing resistance on ticket prices at sporting events. Many "sold" seats are going to corporations. (Watch a New York Yankees home game and observe how many prime seats are empty on weeknights.) Disney does not have the luxury of having corporations buying millions of tickets. Disney needs to respect consumer sentiment.
We happen to be in an economic boom, with consumer confidence at its highest levels since before 9/11. Historically, it's times such as these that consumers spend more freely, including on their vacations. Like all booms, this one will end.
Adding a separate charge for onsite parking (something that Disney was already charging for; it was just was built into the price of the hotel room) is not going to endear Disney to its customers.
Disney should get into the car rental business. Provided the guest has a room at one of their resorts, why not offer them a vehicle at a *magical* daily rate?
Nothing is complimentary. Breakfast is figured in with the room rate. Knowing people that work in the industry, I can tell you that hotels calculate what the cost is on average for each guests breakfast and its built in to the rate. Down to the French vanilla coffee creamer.I love the statment "as well as overall Industry standards" Yea, Disney you are cherry picking what industry standards you will align yourself with the ones that make you money with no effort . Charge for parking, how about complimentary breakfast that has become an industry standard for many hotel chains --Embassy Suites. How about delux resorts that reflex industry standards and not just the price. Disney motto suck it up and take it there are plenty out there that will if you don't
Just sent them an email
The graph makes it look like “anyone/everyone has always been able to do Disney” that’s the part where I’m agreeing with Goofyernmost, because that’s not really how it was.
Thanks @ParentsOf4 for reposting that first graph with the prices and income levels. I know you've posted it before but I couldn't find it. Great points in your posts, all around, by the way.
I went to WDW about every 2 years growing up. We were a family of 4 and solidly low-to-mid middle class - never had to worry about food/shelter/clothing, but also didn't have anything extravagant. You didn't need to go to WDW for a week until really the mid-to-late 90's. Could you before then? Sure, and I bet many did. We went for 3 days at a time back in the late 70's and the 80's (EDIT: Usually in December, but once in February), stayed at (what was then) a decent hotel off-property, and never missed out on anything because of it. So, from my personal experience, yes, just about anyone COULD do Disney back then, and you weren't digging yourself a massive financial hole in doing so. You didn't need to max out a credit card to visit. You didn't need to scrimp and save every single penny for years to visit.
Also, please explain to me what additional you are getting from the room at the Contemporary today that you didn't get in 1971. Not the additional theme parks or the buses or Disney Springs or pool parties or whatever else you want to say you "get" today. What about that room in the Contemporary is worth the $645 price tag that would be $174 if it increased at a rate commensurate with inflation? What is included with the room price that makes it worth the 3X inflation price?
I agree.I think one of the biggest difference today, is that people spend more on “experiences” than “things”. The market knows this, and they price accordingly. Basically, we’ve done it to ourselves.. because as much as we hate the prices (myself included), we’ve made it into the destination it is today.. and as painful as it is to admit- it’s understandable that they would take advantage of that.
I did some checking.It’s so popular on this site to talk about “Disney is rising higher than the cost of inflation!” Of course it is, so is almost every other destination and entertainment option. Why? Because of demand. It’s just that simple.
Do you work for Disney marketing?Here’s something to think about.. sit down and compare your cost of Disney for a week- tickets and resort, and all of the included activities that come along with it. Figure the food in as well, most of the food in WDW is relatively reasonably priced.
Ok so, now that you have that number, Add up another extremely popular destination.. price the resort that you would be staying at- make sure that it’s in the middle of the “action” to make an accurate comparison, price the food to eat out 3 times per day, and the transportation, and the entertainment prices of day thru night activities.
For me personally, they come out similar. The Disney tickets actually come out ahead in that scenario, it’s typically the resorts that make a difference.
What would be the point of this exercise? We are comparing Disney to Disney. When are you going to get that through your head? No one here cares what King's Island costs you. No one.Here’s something to think about.. sit down and compare your cost of Disney for a week- tickets and resort, and all of the included activities that come along with it. Figure the food in as well, most of the food in WDW is relatively reasonably priced.
Ok so, now that you have that number, Add up another extremely popular destination.. price the resort that you would be staying at- make sure that it’s in the middle of the “action” to make an accurate comparison, price the food to eat out 3 times per day, and the transportation, and the entertainment prices of day thru night activities.
For me personally, they come out similar. The Disney tickets actually come out ahead in that scenario, it’s typically the resorts that make a difference.
Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.