WDW IT Layoffs 1/30/2015

[networkpro]

The issue with IT is in the corporate environment is the value proposition. What new stuff or functionality are you bringing to the table ? If its something that's made it to the routine housekeeping stage with vendor supported patching and upgrade outsourcing makes sense.

 

[note2001]

I realize many of us work in IT, and thought I'd share this amusing, and all too accurate, view of how personnel in IT view each other. My hope, other than giving you a few nods and smiles, is that it might help those who are not in our area to understand our complex environment and why corporate doesn't seem to get a clear message about what each of us does, hence making us easy targets for layoffs:

 

[ford91exploder]

I realize many of us work in IT, and thought I'd share this amusing, and all too accurate, view of how personnel in IT view each other. My hope, other than giving you a few nods and smiles, is that it might help those who are not in our area to understand our complex environment and why corporate doesn't seem to get a clear message about what each of us does, hence making us easy targets for layoffs:

View attachment 82444

Unfortunately WAY too true, Another thing that does not help many IT people is the insistence on dressing 'comfortably' yes periodically we are called to work in filthy locations - but as an ex-academic I generally go for the 'tweedy khaki's' look - IF I need to go someplace nasty I've got both real jumpsuits and a tyvek one in my pack.

Unfortunately since so many IT guys LOOK like construction workers only worse dressed it sets up the presumption that IT workers are as replaceable as constuction workers, If we want to be TREATED as professionals we need to LOOK like professionals. Sorry kids perception IS reality.

 

[flynnibus]

Know what sinks IT? Running it as a business that needs to fund itself through cross-charging instead of running it as a cost of business whose purpose is to advance the company and give it an edge.

 

[englanddg]

Outstanding post.

Thankfully we will be developing ourselves out of our jobs last. But that day is certainly coming. We'll make sure to turn off the lights before we leave.

Agreed.

That day is coming. Not soon, but it's certainly on the horizon.

IT will be largely centralized and outsourced. It's not as simple as the (I suspect) short term trend of overseas outsourcing to save labor, but rather one where large companies (e.g. Google/Amazon/MS) will control the services and local "admin" requirements will be largely not required to have much in terms of technical knowledge at all.

 

[englanddg]

Unfortunately WAY too true, Another thing that does not help many IT people is the insistence on dressing 'comfortably' yes periodically we are called to work in filthy locations - but as an ex-academic I generally go for the 'tweedy khaki's' look - IF I need to go someplace nasty I've got both real jumpsuits and a tyvek one in my pack.

Unfortunately since so many IT guys LOOK like construction workers only worse dressed it sets up the presumption that IT workers are as replaceable as constuction workers, If we want to be TREATED as professionals we need to LOOK like professionals. Sorry kids perception IS reality.

Heh. I remember wearing a tie for my first major job with SAIC.

I was running a 30 person helpdesk for a major gov't contract.

I got pulled aside and told "don't do that...then they'll expect us ALL to wear ties!"

 

[englanddg]

I realize many of us work in IT, and thought I'd share this amusing, and all too accurate, view of how personnel in IT view each other. My hope, other than giving you a few nods and smiles, is that it might help those who are not in our area to understand our complex environment and why corporate doesn't seem to get a clear message about what each of us does, hence making us easy targets for layoffs:

View attachment 82444

Too true!



Luckily, in my current position, I get to be all of the above.

So...it's funny how I go back with my designer cap on and think "why did developer englanddg do that, he's such a monkey!"

 

[englanddg]

The issue with IT is in the corporate environment is the value proposition. What new stuff or functionality are you bringing to the table ? If its something that's made it to the routine housekeeping stage with vendor supported patching and upgrade outsourcing makes sense.

Sortof.

A lot of it is salesmen who have trouble setting up their email on their cel phones without calling the helpdesk talking to management and making big promises.

One of the reasons I enjoy being in IT in smaller organizations is that I am also in management (and my background is actually business management, not IT). As a result, I get included in these decisions and get to ask the piercing questions that salespeople hate.

In many organizations, though, this is not the case. And management buys the "promises" of the salespeople, and then leaves IT to deal with the details.

This philosophy is flawed, but very common.

 

[ford91exploder]

Heh. I remember wearing a tie for my first major job with SAIC.

I was running a 30 person helpdesk for a major gov't contract.

I got pulled aside and told "don't do that...then they'll expect us ALL to wear ties!"

Had they worn ties they might have gotten some respect.

 

[englanddg]

Had they worn ties they might have gotten some respect.

Heh, they always had trouble getting budget allocations (the dept, not the contract...)

 

[note2001]

There's too much to reply to here, too much to say, so I'll simply step up onto my soap box for a second...

Outsourcing IT work to India, or any other 'outsource' country is a US company's way of saying "We don't care about employing Americans, nor do we understand IT." (take note, Canada and most of the western Europe countries count as on-shore staff in most cases and do not apply to the following rant.)

I have been through too many layoffs to count, surviving most of them, being hit by 1. Each and every time the parent company only cared about the bottom dollar. Our ability to help the customer suffered greatly after each round that we did end up loosing quite a number of good clients. Corporate wrote the losses off as though they would have lost them anyway, those close to the enemy lines know we could have retained those clients if we had the proper man power on-shore.

Off-shore (outsourced) folk have the best intentions, but they're temporary, looking for knowledge and when they have it they run off to find better employment be it hours, pay or both. The off-shore groups are also run like accounting firms: not caring about quality, but rather the numbers. They will fudge and, if I may use the world boldly, lie about work done all so it makes each of them look good on paper. It is rare to come across an overseas developer or manager who truly cares about the client and software. If you find one... do everything in your ability to keep him/her! They're worth their weight in gold.

It's all too typical to send work overseas for it to come back botched up. You can try sending it back and hand holding them, but it still would be far better to just do the work yourself time-wise, and there is no money saved if it takes 4 of them 4 days to do something you can do alone in 4-6 hours.

Disney thinks they're saving money by sending IT jobs offshore? I am in my laughing place because we know how this will go. They will find they need better on shore staff to control the off shore staff. The average retention of those off shore folks will be 18 months at which point they'll need to retrain everyone. The blame game will abound. Have fun with it Disney! (... and oh, have you fixed my reservations in the system so I can make FP+ yet? No? Didn't think so...)

 

[Nubs70]

Know what sinks IT? Running it as a business that needs to fund itself through cross-charging instead of running it as a cost of business whose purpose is to advance the company and give it an edge.

This is not only a syndrome that plagues IT, manufacturing operations are not immune.

Many operations I have been involved in cross charge my department for labor, material, and overhead then after doing seriously hard work to find milions in savings, the dollar savings are diluted/distributed throughout other departments.

So come the end of the year, the company does well but me and my department are seen as not really contributing.

 

[NelsonRD]

There's too much to reply to here, too much to say, so I'll simply step up onto my soap box for a second...

Outsourcing to India, or any other country is a US company's way of saying "We don't care about employing Americans, nor do we understand IT."

I have been through too many layoffs to count, surviving most of them, being hit by 1. Each and every time the parent company only cared about the bottom dollar. Our ability to help the customer suffered greatly after each round that we did end up loosing quite a number of good clients. Corporate wrote the losses off as though they would have lost them anyway, those close to the enemy lines know we could have retained them if we had the proper man power on shore.

Off shore (outsourced) folk have the best intentions, but they're temporary, looking for knowledge and when they have it they run off to find better employment be it hours, pay or both. They also run like accounting firms: not caring about quality, but rather the numbers. They will fudge and, if I may use the world boldly, lie about work done all so it makes each of them look good on paper. It is rare to come across an overseas developer or manager who truly cares about the client and software. If you find one... do everything in your ability to keep him/her! They're worth their weight in gold.

It's all too typical to send work overseas for it to come back botched up. You can try sending it back and hand holding them, but it still would be far better to just do the work yourself time-wise, and there is no money saved if it takes 4 of them 4 days to do something you can do alone in 4-6 hours.

Disney thinks they're saving money by sending IT jobs offshore? I am in my laughing place because we know how this will go. They will find they need better on shore staff to control the off shore staff. The average retention of those off shore folks will be 18 months at which point they'll need to retrain everyone. The blame game will abound. Have fun with it Disney! (... and oh, have you fixed my reservations in the system so I can make FP+ yet? No? Didn't think so...)

I am not going to speak for this particular situation, but am going to jump in to comment about all the overseas work everybody seems to cry about. Overseas work in general is not conducted mostly to 'save money' because 'companies are cheap', and 'don't care about the American worker' but is done so because people in this country simply do not want to do the work.

Mostly this applies to manufacturing. Most people do not want to perform such work, and the few that are willing to provide such a service are going to have demands that exceed their worth.

The main factor is the willingness to work, not cost. Here is a fun fact to all the big company haters on this forum, when researching for a location to build a facility, cost is not the #1 factor, it is the pool of employable people.

I just laid off the guy that installed a new hot water tank for me. He services are no longer needed in my home, so I had to let him go. There is no room in my daily budget to keep a full time plumber employed.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Know what sinks IT? Running it as a business that needs to fund itself through cross-charging instead of running it as a cost of business whose purpose is to advance the company and give it an edge.

YES!

 

[note2001]

I am not going to speak for this particular situation, but am going to jump in to comment about all the overseas work everybody seems to cry about. Overseas work in general is not conducted mostly to 'save money' because 'companies are cheap', and 'don't care about the American worker' but is done so because people in this country simply do not want to do the work.

Mostly this applies to manufacturing. Most people do not want to perform such work, and the few that are willing to provide such a service are going to have demands that exceed their worth.

The main factor is the willingness to work, not cost. Here is a fun fact to all the big company haters on this forum, when researching for a location to build a facility, cost is not the #1 factor, it is the pool of employable people.

I just laid off the guy that installed a new hot water tank for me. He services are no longer needed in my home, so I had to let him go. There is no room in my daily budget to keep a full time plumber employed.

I agree with you 75% of the way in regards to manufacturing, 25% not as I know many college kids who would pick up manufacturing jobs in a heartbeat if it meant they did not have to play cashier at walmart. The workers are here.

But, we're talking IT. Educated programmers, project managers, writers and admin staff abound here in the US, there is no lack of a job pool here and even if there were, it makes no sense as to why Disney would be dropping 500 of them here in the US only to be picking up more overseas.

I can't touch upon your last statement - my response is one of shock and awe. What will he tell his wife tonight?

 

[NelsonRD]

I agree with you 75% of the way in regards to manufacturing, 25% not as I know many college kids who would pick up manufacturing jobs in a heartbeat if it meant they did not have to play cashier at walmart. The workers are here.

But, we're talking IT. Educated programmers, project managers, writers and admin staff abound here in the US, there is no lack of a job pool here and even if there were, it makes no sense as to why Disney would be dropping 500 of them here in the US only to be picking up more overseas.

I can't touch upon your last statement - my response is one of shock and awe. What will he tell his wife tonight?

No profession is immune to this. I have experience in the Engineering field and hiring process and I am actually depressed with the demands and skills of local graduates with no programming experience who think they are worth six figures because they sat through a few computer science courses, and only went into computer science because they expect to get a high paying job.

I will argue it is much harder to fill jobs that require more skill.

 

[senor_jorge]

No profession is immune to this. I have experience in the Engineering field and hiring process and I am actually depressed with the demands and skills of local graduates with no programming experience who think they are worth six figures because they sat through a few computer science courses, and only went into computer science because they expect to get a high paying job.

I will argue it is much harder to fill jobs that require more skill.

I don't have a problem finding people with the skill set, looking for a job. I have a much greater challenge finding people that want to enter a profession and grow in order to advance, rather than just taking a job. It's easier for me to teach the tech, than it is work ethic.

 

[Epcotbob]

Disney thinks they're saving money by sending IT jobs offshore? I am in my laughing place because we know how this will go. They will find they need better on shore staff to control the off shore staff. The average retention of those off shore folks will be 18 months at which point they'll need to retrain everyone. The blame game will abound. Have fun with it Disney! (... and oh, have you fixed my reservations in the system so I can make FP+ yet? No? Didn't think so...)

So true! I used to work for an large scale mainframe/server manufacturer. They got on the outsourcing kick and opened up a division in Mumbai in hopes of transferring most of the S/W Development. A disaster, the jobs were all back within a few years with alot of wasted money and lost talent.

 

[flynnibus]

So come the end of the year, the company does well but me and my department are seen as not really contributing.

This is the core problem - when value is determined by the PNL for a unit that should not be a revenue source for the company... things are b0rked. The value of an entity should be measured by their impact on the actual drivers of the business... not be businesses in themselves.

All it does is expose horrible traits and behaviors in people to empire build and burden other parts of the business. Units are charged for ridiculous things and the result is hindrance to using IT to better their world.

When you manage choices by spreadsheets instead of vision... bad choices abound...

 

[flynnibus]

I am not going to speak for this particular situation, but am going to jump in to comment about all the overseas work everybody seems to cry about. Overseas work in general is not conducted mostly to 'save money' because 'companies are cheap', and 'don't care about the American worker' but is done so because people in this country simply do not want to do the work.

No, they do it for the same reason they want contractors. Overseas are just CHEAPER contractors. The whole reason they are in the discussion is the idea

- this isn't our core competency
- its too expensive to build and maintain that competency
- contract labor offers dynamic scaling

If your business will never need IT to succeed, that model would be fab. Just like many companys outsource payroll, etc. You aren't going to cause a market shift in your space by having the best payroll department. The problem is many view IT as such a utility as well.. and lack any vision to understand how IS can alter your own business, what you sell, or how you sell it. They see it as a simple burden of doing business... so its a burden, not an asset. And as such, they will look to do it cheaper if possible on the promise of the same output for less input.

Add into that the cost of employing people in the US.. and contracting vs FT looks like a god send. Contractors you can just turn up the dial and get more or less... you don't carry their overhead in the same cost buckets as you do FT employees. You can't start/stop their involvement like FT people, etc.

If IT were just a plumbing utility for you... it makes sense. But if you want to be disruptor, or innovator in the digital world.. you can't do that with outsource IT managed by accountants.

The main factor is the willingness to work, not cost. Here is a fun fact to all the big company haters on this forum, when researching for a location to build a facility, cost is not the #1 factor, it is the pool of employable people.

.. and the talent base... and the willingness to work at your intended wage scales. You open in Kentucky instead of Brooklyn because the tolerance for wages is far more in your favor there, not because there aren't enough people willing to commute to Brooklyn.

Yes, ability to fill the jobs is a huge part of your location... but its a combination of wages, skill, and the size of the labor market. If you are doing work you can fill with anyone with the eagerness to work.. its a lot easier to build your call center or assembly plant wherever the government will give you the fattest incentives. But start adding in specific needs... and the game shifts.