WDW IT Layoffs 1/30/2015

[TimothyG]

Not quite, India developers are closer to 23-30k.

Another thing to factor in here is the insane policy on healthcare in the US. That 90k developer really is running around 135-145 or even more when you factor in healthcare and 401k matching.

As a software engineer, I'm saddened by this as it means Disney is falling pray to the assumption that engineers overseas are as good as those here in the US. Trust me, from experience, they are not. Folks that are as good come over here to earn more money.

Our company did this a few years ago, outsourced the entire IT folks (besides app dev, they kept some of us) and it has been a complete disaster. Companies try this, it can, will, and does blow up in their faces, and after 5 years they return to US based workers.

Disney will be back, just sucks for those affected in the meantime.

No, it's really that low in India believe it or not. The median salary is Rs 380k or ~$6k. USD. Of course, the living costs are different but that's somewhat beside the point. The people that are that good do come over here.
Source: http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary

I'm a software engineer too and I see how this always winds up bad as well. However, I don't think they fell pray to anything. The harder architectural parts are over and everything is in place. Now it's just maintenance. And major enhancements will still have some people here doing it. But this is just pure shareholder appeasement at the expense of 500 FTEs. I get why they did it, I just don't like it at all. But that's just what happens in pure laissez-faire capitalism.

Just sad too because there are so many other projects that the team could have been re-assigned to do.

 

[Creathir]

No, it's really that low in India believe it or not. The median salary is Rs 380k or ~$6k. USD. Of course, the living costs are different but that's somewhat beside the point. The people that are that good do come over here.
Source: http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary

I'm a software engineer too and I see how this always winds up bad as well. However, I don't think they fell pray to anything. The harder architectural parts are over and everything is in place. Now it's just maintenance. And major enhancements will still have some people here doing it. But this is just pure shareholder appeasement at the expense of 500 FTEs. I get why they did it, I just don't like it at all. But that's just what happens in pure laissez-faire capitalism.

Just sad too because there are so many other projects that the team could have been re-assigned to do.

Strange, I know our offshore folks get at least 3-4 times that amount. Maybe our company is overpaying?

 

[toolsnspools]

Strange, I know our offshore folks get at least 3-4 times that amount. Maybe our company is overpaying?

Offshore contracts go to offshore companies, who in turn hire local employees. The charge-back to the US company is based on what the offshore company charges per employee, which if far higher than the employees salary.

 

[ford91exploder]

No, it's really that low in India believe it or not. The median salary is Rs 380k or ~$6k. USD. Of course, the living costs are different but that's somewhat beside the point. The people that are that good do come over here.
Source: http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary

I'm a software engineer too and I see how this always winds up bad as well. However, I don't think they fell pray to anything. The harder architectural parts are over and everything is in place. Now it's just maintenance. And major enhancements will still have some people here doing it. But this is just pure shareholder appeasement at the expense of 500 FTEs. I get why they did it, I just don't like it at all. But that's just what happens in pure laissez-faire capitalism.

Just sad too because there are so many other projects that the team could have been re-assigned to do.

No this is NOT capitalism,

Offshore contracts go to offshore companies, who in turn hire local employees. The charge-back to the US company is based on what the offshore company charges per employee, which if far higher than the employees salary.

The business to be in today is being a Body Shop, it's VERY profitable.

 

[Darth Sidious]

The layoffs stink. I remember several years ago Disney did a big layoff that included several friends. One was in the middle of a big project. On the first day of being laid off the office called my friend 5 times with questions. My friend trying to be a good person answered all their questions. The next day the same thing. On the third day my friend said to them..."you have got to be kidding. You guys laid me off and I am looking for a job so that I continue to support myself. Don't call me again." A week later my friend had their job back. I was always fascinated by my friends story. Makes you wonder how those decisions are made.

Glad your friend was rehired. Unfortunately layoffs happen and a lot of times it isn't as if your manager wants you gone it's because someone way more senior needs to justify their salary by slashing expenses and saving the firm money.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

...and this is part of the reason why Euro Disney isn't in Germany.

 

[Disney6166]

Pretty sure almost all Disney's IT is ran by Xerox.

All of Disney's IT is 90% in house. I used to work IT in there Reservation Systems in Orlando. They go through this hiring and lay-off phase all the time. I talked to one of former colleagues about an hour ago and he told me that it was indeed because of MM+. MM+ is about 90% implemented. Most of the IT workers are were sub-contractors working from project to project so they all new that there jobs were not permenent, if they wanted to stay full-time they had work the system to get into a department that needed them full-time. Xerox only deals with about 5% of there IT.

 

[Magenta Panther]

How much DO you think we should be taxed? Comparing our tax level with other industrialized first world countries, only Japan pays less tax and their economy has been in the crapper for 20 years. And comparing our current level of taxation with our own history, we haven't paid less taxes since the 1930's.

I'm in favor of a flat tax myself. No property taxes. No IRS. And I don't see how Japan's economy being in the crapper is explained by its tax rate.

I'd rather Disney and other corporations keep as much of the money they EARN as possible. That encourages expansion, investment and job-creation. I'd rather not have the government take the money and decide how to spend it. Successful corporations are generally run by pretty smart people. The government is often run by doofuses who are appointed to their stations because of political obligations.

Well, you asked...

 

[ThatMouse]

You have to realize this is IT. This is not steel mill workers who will probably never find a job making steel again. IT people are in high demand, so much so they've been sending them over from India since the 90's. Disney outsources quite a bit to companies in Florida. This is a good thing. So you may get to work for Disney; you just won't get the cast member pin. They also use global staffing companies, but a lot of those people are in the US and they work right here! Or you may be asked to relocate to Europe, South America or one of the many countries they operate and do business in! Oh darn! Disney is quite global. So this whole notion they are somehow taking US jobs away... the other countries are probably mad they send Americans over there!

 

[englanddg]

You have to realize this is IT. This is not steel mill workers who will probably never find a job making steel again. IT people are in high demand, so much so they've been sending them over from India since the 90's. Disney outsources quite a bit to companies in Florida. This is a good thing. So you may get to work for Disney; you just won't get the cast member pin. They also use global staffing companies, but a lot of those people are in the US and they work right here! Or you may be asked to relocate to Europe, South America or one of the many countries they operate and do business in! Oh darn! Disney is quite global. So this whole notion they are somehow taking US jobs away... the other countries are probably mad they send Americans over there!

You...obviously don't work in IT.

 

[englanddg]

All of Disney's IT is 90% in house. I used to work IT in there Reservation Systems in Orlando. They go through this hiring and lay-off phase all the time. I talked to one of former colleagues about an hour ago and he told me that it was indeed because of MM+. MM+ is about 90% implemented. Most of the IT workers are were sub-contractors working from project to project so they all new that there jobs were not permenent, if they wanted to stay full-time they had work the system to get into a department that needed them full-time. Xerox only deals with about 5% of there IT.

Xerox has a ton of ancillary income as well. That's not a very valid comparison. They make tons of float money off their Ikon deals and support contracts.

 

[englanddg]

Pretty sure almost all Disney's IT is ran by Xerox.

I would hope not. Xerox is one of my vendors, and they are overpriced and pretty much worthless as a consulting contractor firm.

 

[englanddg]

The jobs are not just being phased out...they are being outsourced (some overseas). They actually cut too many and had to cancel some layoffs because they realized they cut too much. It is a mess.

Eeeehhhh...sortof.

There are three phases to any major IT enhancement.

1) Pre-planning (this should be labor heavy, but generally isn't)
2) Implementation (this is labor heavy)
3) Daily Execution (generally labor light)

(training and testing cycles I lump in with Implementation)

It's not as simple as them just "outsourcing everything overseas".

 

[englanddg]

They outsourced their IT to India based HCL. Bad decision..... The people they hire typically have no understanding of the business they are supporting. That is a key element to a good IT professional.

Hear hear.

You can hire a code monkey all day long, but a code monkey won't understand what you are TRYING to do...they'll just do what you tell them to do.

And, often, those high dollar systems designers interfacing with the code monkeys overseas don't even know what they are trying to do...so how are they gonna explain it to someone all the way across the world?

 

[englanddg]

OR maybe your friend was unable to transition to the new systems and had become a burden instead of an asset. Happens often when someone has a long tenure with companies. They feel secure and do not put any effort in keeping up. It isn't always the big evil corporation. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. I don't know if this is the case with this person and I don't know if it isn't, but, your statement is just as broad and misleading as any of the others listed here.

This is a VERY fair statement, especially in IT...since we know all, and see all, we tend to create kingdoms.

I remember working for a rather large contract, as a new contractor, and I asked for a Network Map to plan a client deployment strategy.

The network team looked at me like I had lost my mind.

 

[englanddg]

Taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to how much cheaper software developers are in India. In the US, the average software developer makes $90k / year on average. In India, it's $5k USD / year. That's the reason why Disney did this. It has nothing to do with taxes.

Also...eeehhhh...sortof.

You don't need developers forever.

That being said, I think the greater risk these "global" but US based businesses are ignoring is that they cannot control their business code once it's shipped overseas.

We are, thanks to business majors who graduated from prestigious universities, sharing our internal operating specifics with companies and countries that cannot be trusted not to steal them, no matter what "legal" advice they are given or how much they are re-assured by a fellow graduate of a prestigious university.

And, with IT controlling more and more of day to day operations, this becomes even more a concern.

 

[englanddg]

Unless you're an accountant.

Meh. Not really.

 

[englanddg]

Strange, I know our offshore folks get at least 3-4 times that amount. Maybe our company is overpaying?

Yes...they are.

The profits are going to whomever graduated from a prestigious university who sold you all on it.

 

[englanddg]

I'm in favor of a flat tax myself. No property taxes. No IRS. And I don't see how Japan's economy being in the crapper is explained by its tax rate.

I'd rather Disney and other corporations keep as much of the money they EARN as possible. That encourages expansion, investment and job-creation. I'd rather not have the government take the money and decide how to spend it. Successful corporations are generally run by pretty smart people. The government is often run by doofuses who are appointed to their stations because of political obligations.

Well, you asked...

Sales tax "Fair Tax" advocate here...

A Flat Tax is fine as well...but there are political reasons why neither will come to pass.

 

[englanddg]

Unless you're an accountant.

Do you know how I develop accounting software? I learn how to be an accountant.

After I've learned that, do I really need an accountant outside of the third party liability for tax filings?

Accounting is the one area that IT will destroy first, and already has been for decades.