WDW IT Layoffs 1/30/2015

[ford91exploder]

This is infuriating, but you can't ask Disney not to use the same resources (cheap foreign labor) that every other company in the country has readily available (and uses). The people to blame are in the federal government and both parties.

Absolutely infuriating.

EDIT:
After a little thought, I take it back. Disney is an American company that makes zillions of dollars per year; it should be better than this. It's pennywise and pound foolish. Shame on them. Shame on Disney.

You are correct though in it's the bought and paid for so called representatives and senators who pass the laws that make this possible. And when apportioning blame to parties remember that Iger is a proud supporter of team Democrat - who used to be for the working people but these days are the LARGEST recipients of corporate donations.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Sen. Bill Nelson asks for probe into visa program used by Disney

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-visas-nelson-20150605-story.html

 

[righttrack]

Hate to say this, but this is standard operating practice in the world of IT. Mamas don't let you're babys grow up to be programmers...

Seriously, so surprised that Disney was so behind the times! We did this in the late 90s/early 2000s sad as it is

 

[ford91exploder]

Hate to say this, but this is standard operating practice in the world of IT. Mamas don't let you're babys grow up to be programmers...

Seriously, so surprised that Disney was so behind the times! We did this in the late 90s/early 2000s sad as it is

Or a better one in today's America just don't have children if you really care, Their future has already been stolen by the mega-corporations of today.

What most have forgotten is when the the modern corporation was born in the 1600's at Lloyds Coffehouse in London, Parliament was very worried about the concentration of wealth and in EXCHANGE for allowing public stock companies to exist they were REQUIRED to create JOBS,

The 'Maximize Shareholder Value' being the ONLY requirement of a public corporation started with Michael Milliken and Carl Icahn in the 1980's and it was embraced in the post Carter economic doldrums because at the time it provided desperately needed growth (and JOBS).

It has now become a monster which needs to be reined in and need to move back to incorporation laws roots i.e. allowed to raise capital and distribute profits in a tax protected manner IN EXCHANGE for the creation of jobs in the companies home countrie(s)

This monomaniacal focus on the short term is severely hurting innovation as companies are no longer allowed to invest in things which will take years to develop and have the potential to create entirely new markets and profits.

 

[bugsbunny]

I worked for the leading software company that managed the large majority of pension and health care for the major labor unions in the US. It was all written in COBOL, which is essentially a dead language and its impossible to get fresh blood. Once programmers started dying of natural causes, I got the heck out of there!

But not to be disappointing, a UNION software company was outsourcing the COBOL programming to India. Really out of necessity more so than eliminating jobs. Regardless, when I brought up the irony of using foreign labor to write software code for Union customers, it was dismissed as "ah, everybody outsources these days, what's the big deal?". When I use to travel to a Union customer location, they would have signs in the parking lot for "American Cars ONLY". When renting at the airport, you had to specify an American car or they would TOW IT AWAY if you parked in their lots. I can't tell you how many Union officers would complain or outright chastise me for being non-Union but working on their stuff. I am for certain they would have flipped if they found out folks from India were doing their benefits, pension, and health care support.

But in the end, it all comes down to "what's the cheapest way out?". And the answer is normally to move it off shore and/or bring in junior level sheep to offer for slaughter.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Or a better one in today's America just don't have children if you really care, Their future has already been stolen by the mega-corporations of today.

What most have forgotten is when the the modern corporation was born in the 1600's at Lloyds Coffehouse in London, Parliament was very worried about the concentration of wealth and in EXCHANGE for allowing public stock companies to exist they were REQUIRED to create JOBS,

The 'Maximize Shareholder Value' being the ONLY requirement of a public corporation started with Michael Milliken and Carl Icahn in the 1980's and it was embraced in the post Carter economic doldrums because at the time it provided desperately needed growth (and JOBS).

It has now become a monster which needs to be reined in and need to move back to incorporation laws roots i.e. allowed to raise capital and distribute profits in a tax protected manner IN EXCHANGE for the creation of jobs in the companies home countrie(s)

This monomaniacal focus on the short term is severely hurting innovation as companies are no longer allowed to invest in things which will take years to develop and have the potential to create entirely new markets and profits.

Didn't Michael Milliken do time? He is currently a convicted felon, right?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This monomaniacal focus on the short term is severely hurting innovation as companies are no longer allowed to invest in things which will take years to develop and have the potential to create entirely new markets and profits.

Unless you're Apple, and couldn't care less what Wall Street thinks. That's also how Disney USED to think, and I believe they need to go back to that mindset.

 

[NelsonRD]

Mamas don't let you're babys grow up to be programmers...

What is that supposed to mean? High tech jobs are in gross demand, and most employers are struggling to fill them with qualified, reasonable candidates. However, this article never defined exactly what IT positions were contracted out, it could mean almost anything from network administration, to developers, to somebody who does nothing but make CAT6 cables.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

What is that supposed to mean? High tech jobs are in gross demand, and most employers are struggling to fill them with qualified, reasonable candidates. However, this article never defined exactly what IT positions were contracted out, it could mean almost anything from network administration, to developers, to somebody who does nothing but make CAT6 cables.

What you say is not true at all. Most employers are struggling to fill IT jobs that they aren't willing to pay the proper market value for. A HUGE difference. There are plenty of experienced IT people that would love to work, but not for the salaries that some of these companies are offering, since it is a slap in the face, and a huge pay cut for them.

The issue is this: a company is currently paying an experienced person $100,000 to do a particular job, which is the current market value for that type of work. They decide they can save some money by gaming the H1B system, so they advertise that exact same position with the same qualifications needed, but are only willing to pay $45,000. Well, absolutely NOBODY that is experienced enough to warrant the $100,000 salary (which is what the position is REALLY worth) is willing to take it for $45,000, so the company says that there are no qualified people to fill the position, and hires an H1B person that is willing to work for that salary. Accounting doesn't care that the person doesn't have a clue because the IT department saved $55,000. Management says we are saving money to look good to shareholders. It's a vicious cycle that just needs to stop. And yes, I have been in IT for almost 40 years, and have seen it time and time again. We had several people in my company that recently were laid off, and their jobs moved overseas - same exact job - just a different person making half the salary, not because they weren't great at their jobs, but just to shave a few bucks from the bottom line. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[righttrack]

What is that supposed to mean? High tech jobs are in gross demand, and most employers are struggling to fill them with qualified, reasonable candidates. However, this article never defined exactly what IT positions were contracted out, it could mean almost anything from network administration, to developers, to somebody who does nothing but make CAT6 cables.

They are the most in-demand jobs and they are filled with foreign outsourcers because people do not want to pay stateside US wages for them. An on-shore worker from one of these outsource companies makes half what their US counterpart would. To transfer this work offshore, it's a ratio of 4 foreign workers to the price of one American. So these firms basically bring on-shore team leads at half price and have offshore workers at one quarter price. It's hard to compete as a US employee with those prices.

 

[NelsonRD]

They are the most in-demand jobs and they are filled with foreign outsourcers because people do not want to pay stateside US wages for them. An on-shore worker from one of these outsource companies makes half what their US counterpart would. To transfer this work offshore, it's a ratio of 4 foreign workers to the price of one American. So these firms basically bring on-shore team leads at half price and have offshore workers at one quarter price. It's hard to compete as a US employee with those prices.

Just like that, it is that simple - has nothing to do with anything else?
I work in the engineering field, and have been hiring each year for years. We cannot find qualified people. I have said this a dozen times. Most people I have interviewed demand 6 figure salaries, with no experience. They tell me what they will or will not work on. Unwilling to relocate. They demand benefits that exceed mine. On top of it all, we have been cautioned not to provide sign on bonuses or higher pay to qualified people because it is not fair, and could be considered bribes. Those with experience are employed, even after they are let go, they are picked up quickly, and are not easy to get (kind of like a free agent in the NFL). So, don't get me wrong, I am not applauding actions that hurt the American worker, I am just pointing out some of their flaws.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Unless you're Apple, and couldn't care less what Wall Street thinks. That's also how Disney USED to think, and I believe they need to go back to that mindset.

Well that would mean not paying the CEO in stock. The CEO has a very vested interest in what wall street says when most of his salary comes in stock.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Well that would mean not paying the CEO in stock. The CEO has a very vested interest in what wall street says when most of his salary comes in stock.

Very true, and I think that is part of the problem with today's companies. No CEO should ever be paid in stock. They should only be paid a salary, and be willing to make the company better for the long term, and tell Wall Street to go take a giant leap.

 

[flynnibus]

The issue is this: a company is currently paying an experienced person $100,000 to do a particular job, which is the current market value for that type of work. They decide they can save some money by gaming the H1B system, so they advertise that exact same position with the same qualifications needed, but are only willing to pay $45,000. Well, absolutely NOBODY that is experienced enough to warrant the $100,000 salary (which is what the position is REALLY worth) is willing to take it for $45,000, so the company says that there are no qualified people to fill the position, and hires an H1B person that is willing to work for that salary

Or.. we can look at the real numbers in what the H1B's are making... HCL mentioned in the Disney stories
http://foreign-employment.findthedata.com/l/15894/HCL-America-Inc

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

Or a better one in today's America just don't have children if you really care, Their future has already been stolen by the mega-corporations of today.

^This x100.

I have decided against having children for this very reason. Well, also combined with other reasons such as...they annoy the living heck outta me...and I prefer to enjoy this little ole' thing called freedom.

But you are absolutely right in that it is almost selfish to want to bring children into the crazy (jobless) world which they will inevitably inherit if things keep going the way they are. It scares me as it is, and I'll hopefully be outta the mix when things finally start to collapse.

In the meantime, I'll ride out the decline as one child-free, carefree, happy bloke. (Those of you reading 40 years from now with one less hungry mouth to compete with...you're welcome! )

 

[PhotoDave219]

Or.. we can look at the real numbers in what the H1B's are making... HCL mentioned in the Disney stories
http://foreign-employment.findthedata.com/l/15894/HCL-America-Inc

Well damn. Thats some fat cash.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The Sentinel Weighs in with an Opinion Piece

Disney turns heads with foreign worker program

It's every American worker's nightmare.

The boss says you are being laid off.

That's bad enough.

Even worse, before you lose your livelihood you'll be asked to leave behind some of your dignity, too.

That's the way some Disney employees felt when they were asked to train foreign workers, apparently flown in from India, to become their younger and cheaper replacements.

"I just couldn't believe they could fly people in to sit at our desks and take over our jobs exactly," one former worker, who wasn't named and is now unemployed, told The New York Times. "It was so humiliating to train somebody else to take over your job. I still can't grasp it."

A Times report last week detailed the situation at Disney and other companies where positions are outsourced to companies that hire foreign workers who come to the United States on H-1B visas.

That particular visa is often described as a way to employ foreign workers when companies can't find enough skilled Americans to do the work.

 

[Nubs70]

The Economic Policy Institute ran a piece on this and is linked on top left column on Drudge.

http://www.epi.org/blog/et-tu-micke...g-u-s-workers-with-cheaper-h-1b-guestworkers/

 

[BernardandBianca]

Just like that, it is that simple - has nothing to do with anything else?
I work in the engineering field, and have been hiring each year for years. We cannot find qualified people. I have said this a dozen times. Most people I have interviewed demand 6 figure salaries, with no experience. They tell me what they will or will not work on. Unwilling to relocate. They demand benefits that exceed mine. On top of it all, we have been cautioned not to provide sign on bonuses or higher pay to qualified people because it is not fair, and could be considered bribes. Those with experience are employed, even after they are let go, they are picked up quickly, and are not easy to get (kind of like a free agent in the NFL). So, don't get me wrong, I am not applauding actions that hurt the American worker, I am just pointing out some of their flaws.

I fail to understand the reasoning you've provided. You state that you "cannot find qualified people", and then go on to state that "we have been cautioned not to provide...higher pay to qualified people". So it's not that you cannot find qualified people, you just don't want to pay them. Also, you really need to reconsider your advisors, cautioning that sign on bonuses could be considered bribes. So what? Nothing illegal about that, so long as you are not discriminating based on the standard discrimination factors. After my first job, every other time I've changed jobs has come with sign-on bonuses.

 

[ford91exploder]

Or.. we can look at the real numbers in what the H1B's are making... HCL mentioned in the Disney stories
http://foreign-employment.findthedata.com/l/15894/HCL-America-Inc

There is a big difference in what the contractor is CHARGING vs what the worker is actually paid, I have a friend who runs a 'body shop' specializing in H1B 'contracts' he charges approx 2/3 of the going rate for any given job and the worker is provided with housing and a salary of 15,000-25,000 which is the going rate around here for H1B contract labor

And these jobs are week to week with no benefits so the employer also saves on unemployment and FICA , WC and all that good stuff. Just another example of modern corporate practice of socializing losses and liabilities and privatizing gains.