WDW Awakens ...

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
My memory's just fine. There are very clear differences between now and then due in part to cuts all around and very different (worse) management. To the topic of this thread I also distinctly remember a promotion called the Happiest Celebration on Earth circa 2005. Puts this Summer Awakens nonsense to shame.

Also Year of Million Dreams. No our memory is quite good from years back and those photos where all the bulbs were functioning on main st and the GF guess I just forgot all the time I spent retouching the prints negatives and transparencies in the days before Photoshop... All to support the narrative that the parks were better maintained back in the day. Guess all those old menus which had Prime Rib listed on the bill of fare for the buffet are counterfeit as well as the guide maps which show EPCOT open till 11 most nights.

Yeah us purists spend a lot of time counterfeiting those Disney artifacts and pictures...
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
I probably fall into the "Purist" category, but that doesn't mean change can't occur.

Horizons and Imagination needed a good update, not destroying.
On the other hand, Kitchen Cabaret and Food Rocks needed to disappear as does Circle of Life.
Dinorama needs to be replaced.
Muppets should go.
It's also time for the departure of Carousel of Progress.

How's that? ;)
I disagree with those last two
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
You have a point about how Purists can be nostalgia blind towards the flaws of the past which can blind their perspective of the present and future, but when I said Purist, I meant Realist in your lingo. What I meant by Pixieduster are the fans who are typically associated with groups like the Lifestylers and Mommy Bloggers. These are the type of Disney fans who are more than willing to accept most of what Disney does good or bad and will typically excuse the bad through poor justifications along the lines of "Disney is a business". Personally speaking, I'd consider myself firmly in what you would call the realist camp. I'm always willing acknowledge that Disney still get a lot right and will praise them every time I feel they do. But in cases where I feel they go against the Disney standards, design, and/or traditions, I'm ready to stick it to them as hard as anyone.
When I hear pixie duster i think of the people who b**** and moan about everything but still go three times a year
My opinion the truth lies somewhere in between pixie dust and doom and gloom
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
When I hear pixie duster i think of the people who b**** and moan about everything but still go three times a year
My opinion the truth lies somewhere in between pixie dust and doom and gloom
At least for me I still go because I'm with family and I still see value for the small amount I pay for myself to go. Once I have a family and my own kids that will change very quickly.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I probably fall into the "Purist" category, but that doesn't mean change can't occur.

Horizons and Imagination needed a good update, not destroying.
On the other hand, Kitchen Cabaret and Food Rocks needed to disappear as does Circle of Life.
Dinorama needs to be replaced.
Muppets should go.
It's also time for the departure of Carousel of Progress.

How's that? ;)
Imagination got an update, twice... how do you like it now?

Dinorama is something you don't like so... off with its head.

Muppets are now classic and still loved by many, however you don't like it... so be gone you.
Lack of CoP support puts you in the line of people that are unable to appreciate their history and therefore would like it gone. It has many more reasons for remaining then just "not up to date", boring to you, etc. That attitude points out to me someone that has no sense of history or the importance of seeing where we came from either socially or theme park establishing. Management at Disney hates it because it constantly points out the degree of excellence that was once the hallmark of Disney. It is something to compare yesterday with today and by that comparison... today sucks.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
My first is almost here... Trips are going to become farther apart...
QS_0ef88bb7eea74b489aa1a3b62398a187.jpg

Jk, congratulations :)
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I probably fall into the "Purist" category, but that doesn't mean change can't occur.

Horizons and Imagination needed a good update, not destroying.
On the other hand, Kitchen Cabaret and Food Rocks needed to disappear as does Circle of Life.
Dinorama needs to be replaced.
Muppets should go.
It's also time for the departure of Carousel of Progress.

How's that? ;)
I think that Carousel of Progress needs to stay in some shape or form, but other than that, you're on point. I could take or leave Muppetvision depending on its situation in DHS 2.0, but since that situation looks like it may break the flow of Star Tours to SWL, I'll leave it.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
What I'm saying is that the Everyman isn't As privy to most of WDW's problems as you imply.

Of course they aren't.

The point is, you rarely see "everymen" coming back from WDW and extolling what they used to go on and on about regarding the quality and the exceptional service. One of the key things that kept people coming back, along with the head and shoulders newest/best attractions in existence that they also used to be known for.

They may not be "privy" to this, but it's impact is there nonetheless.in their decision to return, which is having a domino effect on each successive generation. The kids going to WDW today are going to see Universal's parks as an equivalent experience, which is really jarring when you think how quickly things have really changed.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I know thaf they're all pretty much carbon copies of each other, but there was a time where it was more common for executives to respect the creative history creative of their company. That's what a lot the discussion here is about after all.

Oh, I hear you - just pointing out that Iger is no special snowflake. I honestly do not think anyone else who would have actually been allowed to fill the position would have done much differently in the current corporate environment.

Outside of Disney Parks fans, he's also perceived pretty much the polar opposite as most paint him as here. He saved the feature film business, which of course is the core of the Disney brand. Theme parks are seemingly up next with the "sudden" flurry of stuff going on after a decade of stagnancy - so at least we'll finally be able to have a few attractions to hopefully brag about again.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
When I first visited WDW, Carousel of Progress was one of my very fave attractions, along with Country Bears. But now, it looks quaint, and not in the same way Peter Pan's Flight looks quaint. I'd hate to see it go, as I would with Bears (also quaint), but it's hard to see how it could stay...unless Tomorrowland were completely updated in a playful "The Future That Never Was" kind of way, with steampunk and everything. Or something. Tomorrowland is indeed problematic. The future is changing so rapidly; how could any futuristic attraction NOT seem quaint in a few years' time?
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
When I first visited WDW, Carousel of Progress was one of my very fave attractions, along with Country Bears. But now, it looks quaint, and not in the same way Peter Pan's Flight looks quaint. I'd hate to see it go, as I would with Bears (also quaint), but it's hard to see how it could stay...unless Tomorrowland were completely updated in a playful "The Future That Never Was" kind of way, with steampunk and everything. Or something. Tomorrowland is indeed problematic. The future is changing so rapidly; how could any futuristic attraction NOT seem quaint in a few years' time?
Doesn't help its case when CoP is one of the worst maintained attractions on property. It's decline over recent years has been appalling for me to witness.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Of course they aren't.

The point is, you rarely see "everymen" coming back from WDW and extolling what they used to go on and on about regarding the quality and the exceptional service. One of the key things that kept people coming back, along with the head and shoulders newest/best attractions in existence that they also used to be known for.

They may not be "privy" to this, but it's impact is there nonetheless.in their decision to return, which is having a domino effect on each successive generation. The kids going to WDW today are going to see Universal's parks as an equivalent experience, which is really jarring when you think how quickly things have really changed.
I understand your point, I just don't full agree with it. Even on a subconscious level, I just don't see them picking up on the intricacies that only fan boys would notice. This is why I thinkother factors like money or a general confusion of how to work modern WDW may factor into it more than the factors you cite. And as far as Universal goes, I can see how you can argue that the lines between it and WDW are starting to blur for teens and adults. For kids, however, I'm not so sure. Aside from the more timeless properties that they have in their parks (Seuss immediately springs to mind) and the behemoth that is the Minions, Universal probably has less that would appeal to current generation of kids than they did for previous decades. Despite a number of recent changes, the parks are still filled with 1990's and 2000's era IP's that today's kids might feel a little bit distant from. Not only that, but the focus on more family friendly attractions remains relatively unchanged from previous decades. Again, Universal changes out attractions all the time, so who knows how they'll feel about it when they become the target demographic. But for now, I'd say that Universal is a roughly equal experience for children as it was in decades past.
 

seabreezept813

Well-Known Member
Doesn't help its case when CoP is one of the worst maintained attractions on property. It's decline over recent years has been appalling for me to witness.

I think I would be just as upset about CoP leaving as a ToT Makeover. CoP is not mindblowing, but its such a great piece of history. I think the originality and song fit so well in Magic Kingdom. Plus how many attractions can you walk onto with air conditioning?
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
When I first visited WDW, Carousel of Progress was one of my very fave attractions, along with Country Bears. But now, it looks quaint, and not in the same way Peter Pan's Flight looks quaint. I'd hate to see it go, as I would with Bears (also quaint), but it's hard to see how it could stay...unless Tomorrowland were completely updated in a playful "The Future That Never Was" kind of way, with steampunk and everything. Or something. Tomorrowland is indeed problematic. The future is changing so rapidly; how could any futuristic attraction NOT seem quaint in a few years' time?
Tomorrowland already was re themed to that back in 1994/5.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
When I first visited WDW, Carousel of Progress was one of my very fave attractions, along with Country Bears. But now, it looks quaint, and not in the same way Peter Pan's Flight looks quaint. I'd hate to see it go, as I would with Bears (also quaint), but it's hard to see how it could stay...unless Tomorrowland were completely updated in a playful "The Future That Never Was" kind of way, with steampunk and everything. Or something. Tomorrowland is indeed problematic. The future is changing so rapidly; how could any futuristic attraction NOT seem quaint in a few years' time?
The loss of CoP would not just be tragic, it would almost be criminal. There is so little left to link us to the original Disney concepts and everyone seems to want it gone. If they took it out would I lose any sleep? Not a wink, but, it would be sad that we, as a society can never seem to see the positive of maintaining some of our history.
Doesn't help its case when CoP is one of the worst maintained attractions on property. It's decline over recent years has been appalling for me to witness.
For consideration... what we have here is an over 50 year old attraction that has been shown in the New York Worlds Fair, Disneyland and Walt Disney World to thousands and possibly millions of people. It was created by Walt and his "Boys" and it has been going around in circles, show after show, almost everyday for all those years and yet we seem to be able to claim that it isn't maintained. I wish I could let my car go like that without maintenance and still have it working as well as that one does after over 50 years. Believe me, it has been maintained. Maybe it hasn't had new carpeting on a regular basis or have new seats, but, I have yet to see any damaged ones and it is far from necessary to the show. Maybe it's time to lose that "no maintenance" argument.
Of course they aren't.

The point is, you rarely see "everymen" coming back from WDW and extolling what they used to go on and on about regarding the quality and the exceptional service. One of the key things that kept people coming back, along with the head and shoulders newest/best attractions in existence that they also used to be known for.

They may not be "privy" to this, but it's impact is there nonetheless.in their decision to return, which is having a domino effect on each successive generation. The kids going to WDW today are going to see Universal's parks as an equivalent experience, which is really jarring when you think how quickly things have really changed.
I think that depends on which park that they saw first. I've been going to Universal semi-regularly since they opened up in Florida. I have always thought of Uni as a fairly equivalent experience, just not able to compete in size or diversity to WDW. It still doesn't, but, that is probably because WDW was the first place I ever went. I cannot go to Uni 4 days in a row and see a new place each time. I still can't, but, I still feel that attraction for attraction they are equal or better then WDW. One thing I never ran into in WDW is an attraction that I couldn't fit on. I have always been a big person, but, I was always able to experience everything I wanted to at WDW. Not so at Uni. The Mummy had that embarrassing measuring seat out in front of the ride where everyone could watch you not fit. Then when Potter opened, there it was again and I missed out by probably not more then perhaps a quarter inch of girth, but, miss out I did.

What that means is no matter what Uni does, I will always consider my home base to be WDW. They never made the decision that some people should be excluded if they didn't reach the standard of reasonable size that they imposed. I was always big, but, I was never grossly large. I could and did keep up with everyone in the park, I was just big. I have lost a lot of weight over the last few years and have easily conformed to their standard of excellence.The problem is, I no longer care. The damage was done and it isn't healing. The exposed coasters, etc. never bothered me because my standards for a Uni theme park were different then my standards for Disney. It is easy to tell that to many here, that situation still exists. The lack of the heart stopping thrill rides is one huge deciding factor, but, do we really want to see WDW with skeletal structures piercing the skyline? That seems to be being called for on occasion, but, that wouldn't be what Disneyland or Disney World were built on and I hope it never is. There are just so many things that fit into elaborate theming and when that happens the "thrill" factor is reduced considerably. Tell me the truth, has there ever been anything uglier created then that Rocket thing at Universal towering above and woven through existing places within the theme park?

The Everyman will make judgements the same way that we did, based on what appeals to them. Without the past history or in some cases, even with it, they are not comparing Disney now to a real or imagined Disney then. They are comparing product to product and the shear volume of WDW will impress much more then the details of any specific attraction. If anyone, first time visitor or long time repeat visitor cannot find enough enjoyable things to do at WDW then it is because they didn't really try. Universal is still a two day park for me and unless they add another park, it will remain that way. I don't do coasters and I don't do water parks and "downtown" entertainment venues are not a draw for me. I don't think that I am the only one. Nostalgia is the main reason people kept coming back. After about the second visit, people already knew the script and recited it word for word to the point of total obnoxiousness as loudly as they could. They were not interested in anything new and if you can't tell by the reaction that happens whenever something has been changed or replaced, it is obvious that they were not interested in the new part. Very little in the line of high quality has been created for many years now, the Guests have bypassed quality for nostalgia for a couple of decades now. And still Universal has not been able to equal the numbers of visitors of WDW.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
For consideration... what we have here is an over 50 year old attraction that has been shown in the New York Worlds Fair, Disneyland and Walt Disney World to thousands and possibly millions of people. It was created by Walt and his "Boys" and it has been going around in circles, show after show, almost everyday for all those years and yet we seem to be able to claim that it isn't maintained. I wish I could let my car go like that without maintenance and still have it working as well as that one does after over 50 years. Believe me, it has been maintained. Maybe it hasn't had new carpeting on a regular basis or have new seats, but, I have yet to see any damaged ones and it is far from necessary to the show. Maybe it's time to lose that "no maintenance" argument.
Way to miss the point. In the past few years (I'm talking 4-5 at the most) I've noticed numerous issues with the actual show itself pop up. AA's losing motion and damage to every scrim to the point where they're not concealing the rotating scenes they're supposed to be hiding until they're ready and in place at all. None of these have been fixed yet. Let me guess though, it's just my imagination and everything is gumdrops and rainbows :rolleyes:

Just to make it clear I'm not one of the ones calling for its removal.
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Way to miss the point. In the past few years (I'm talking 4-5 at the most) I've noticed numerous issues with the actual show itself pop up. AA's losing motion and damage to every scrim to the point where they're not concealing the rotating scenes they're supposed to be hiding until they're ready and in place at all. None of these have been fixed yet. Let me guess though, it's just my imagination and everything is gumdrops and rainbows :rolleyes:

Just to make it clear I'm not one of the ones calling for its removal.
OK, but I have to ask... are you there everyday and know that those problems still exist? I have also seen AA problems such as the daughter having her hand holding her hair brush fall off and was just hanging by wires. I went on again the next day and it was fixed, exactly when is something that I don't know. It might be the same day or overnight. I just don't know. A number of times mechanical things break, especially something as old as CoP, and it has very little to do with maintenance, but, so far I have never seen anything that wasn't fix by the next time I saw it. I know that there are some things that break and they just don't bother with, that is wrong, but, I'm sure that they are feeling that those particular things are not things that the general public would be aware of having worked in the past and don't really change the story. I'm sure that there is a lot of prioritizing when it comes to maintenance tasks.
 

jensenrick

Well-Known Member
Yes.

But.

I'm here now and have never before seen such filthy restrooms at WDW. "Stuff" on the ground in TWO facilities at the Studios (in the front by stroller rental, and the ones near Toy Story).

Considering this is Phil Holmes's park, I shouldn't be surprised. The cutbacks are evident at restaurants and transportation, but especially in custodial.

EDIT: FWIW, the few custodians I have seen are working hard. But there aren't enough of them to keep up with the public.

I won't be graphic, but the DHS bathrooms are the Worst lately. We were there in April, and two of the only four men's room stalls on Sunset Blvd. (totaling those by HToT and PlanetH) had signs on them proclaiming "out of order" leaving lines at the ones that were working. This is a street with 2 QS counters, a snack stand, a sweets shop and Starbucks on the corner. WOEfully less than what is needed.
 

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