News Walt Disney Company plans to spend $17 billion at Walt Disney World over the next ten years

[BlakeW39]

I do too, even ignoring the EPCOT aspect. It's a solid roller coaster with fun music, but that's basically all it is. Everything that was supposed to enhance the coaster experience to elevate it into something more than just a coaster (the theming/plot) is poorly done and doesn't really add anything to the ride.

It's certainly not a bad attraction, but it's not a special one. Disney (and Universal) has done much better.

Yeah I don't care for it much. It's not a particularly thrilling ride, nor a well themed one. I think all the effects are essentially duds. The room has too much lighting and doesn't allow the rider to feel like they're in space either in my opinion. And the premise of the ride is really contrived. You can tell they were trying to balance the conflicting desires of imagineering to make the ride conform to the themes of EPCOT, and management's desire to have an action-packed superhero ride with Guardians fighting a powerful villain. I'd put it above, say, TRON, but below Expedition Everest, just based on the ride itself and not how it fits into its respective park.

 

[erasure fan1]

One can see the dilemma, though. They now have so much IP that they know would be lucrative to build out, but they have existing infrastructure tied to themes that don't automatically lend themselves to the things they think their audience wants. It's why they've been pushing for "entering the worlds of your favorite movies" in Hollywood Studios and "cultures and the stories they inspire" in World Showcase.

I can't really see the dilemma since since they have had a park for years that works perfectly for a very large part of their IPs. The studios. But that is nowhere near the capacity it should be. If they really wanted to build out their IPs, they could in that park. But they would rather shove an IP wherever they need something. It's a lot less work and money. IP can fit into existing lands, it just takes some work and planning.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is a Cosmic Rewind thread now? Cool.

I really enjoyed the ride. Thought it was great.

 

[James Alucobond]

I can't really see the dilemma since since they have had a park for years that works perfectly for a very large part of their IPs. The studios. But that is nowhere near the capacity it should be. If they really wanted to build out their IPs, they could in that park. But they would rather shove an IP wherever they need something. It's a lot less work and money. IP can fit into existing lands, it just takes some work and planning.

That park’s original charter didn’t work for the currently in-vogue way of handling IP-based lands either, hence the shift. People tend to not care as much about Hollywood Studios’ original mission statement (relative to EPCOT), but it was equally inappropriate as an IP dumping ground as originally envisioned.

 

[BlakeW39]

I can't really see the dilemma since since they have had a park for years that works perfectly for a very large part of their IPs. The studios. But that is nowhere near the capacity it should be. If they really wanted to build out their IPs, they could in that park. But they would rather shove an IP wherever they need something. It's a lot less work and money. IP can fit into existing lands, it just takes some work and planning.

I think turning DHS into IP-land is a big mistake. And this is coming from someone who had almost zero interest in the original themes of the park, back when it was still MGM. Modern DHS has essentially no thematic direction. Visiting facsimiles of your favorite movie locations isn't a theme. It's a premise, not a theme. So what are the themes that underlie DHS as a park? I don't ******* know, and Disney doesn't seem to know either. That, in combination with its small size and attraction variety, makes it easily the weakest WDW park. It's honestly kind of pathetic, and if it wasn't for TOT I don't think I'd ever even need to go back.

Modern DHS imo doesn't even really have a strong identity. Even its weenie, the Tower of Terror, was never meant to be the centerpiece of the park and doesn't really work as such.

 

[UNCgolf]

That park’s original charter didn’t work for the currently in-vogue way of handling IP-based lands either, hence the shift. People tend to not care as much about Hollywood Studios’ original mission statement (relative to EPCOT), but it was equally inappropriate as an IP dumping ground as originally envisioned.

This is one of the reasons I preferred the DHS of 20+ years ago to current DHS. It was a much better theme park, even if the attraction lineup wasn't as impressive (although I personally don't think the current attraction lineup is very good either, and Rise and MMRR are the only truly good additions... but MMRR came at the cost of a better attraction, so it's still not a plus).

The current version is a half day park, and the older version was a half day park, but the older version was a lot more cohesive and interesting.

 

[BlakeW39]

That park’s original charter didn’t work for the currently in-vogue way of handling IP-based lands either, hence the shift. People tend to not care as much about Hollywood Studios’ original mission statement (relative to EPCOT), but it was equally inappropriate as an IP dumping ground as originally envisioned.

^^ ditto

It's not even about mission statements. Literally just have any theme at all. That's all I am asking

 

[erasure fan1]

That park’s original charter didn’t work for the currently in-vogue way of handling IP-based lands either, hence the shift. People tend to not care as much about Hollywood Studios’ original mission statement

I'd say the studios has always been the place most accepted for IP placement. Star wars, indy, muppets, twilight zone... Sure there isn't really a theme outside of MOVIES! But if they are going to create a bunch of IP mini lands, I'd prefer it to be the studios. At least then you brand it as, step into your favorite movies....

Modern DHS Disney has essentially no thematic direction. Visiting facsimiles of your favorite movie locations isn't a theme. It's a premise, not a theme.

There, I fixed it for you.
The only park that really has a strong theme left is Animal kingdom. Even Magic kingdom has slipped. But Epcot and the studios are on a whole other level of thematic dysfunction.

 

[BlakeW39]

I'd say the studios has always been the place most accepted for IP placement. Star wars, indy, muppets, twilight zone... Sure there isn't really a theme outside of MOVIES! But if they are going to create a bunch of IP mini lands, I'd prefer it to be the studios. At least then you brand it as, step into your favorite movies....

There, I fixed it for you.
The only park that really has a strong theme left is Animal kingdom. Even Magic kingdom has slipped. But Epcot and the studios are on a whole other level of thematic dysfunction.

DHS originally had clear themes and direction. Modern DHS is just IPland. I never cared for the original theme of DHS, but at least it was a theme. Movies isn't a theme. It's a subject. Visiting movie themed lands isn't a theme, it's a premise. What are the themes of DHS? It literally doesn't have one I'd wager, or at least it doesn't have one that's consistent across the entire park. The only thing stringing DHS together is the subject of film. Besides that, it simply lacks any singular direction or set of themes/ideas. Sure the rest of the parks have their issues, but DHS is just a complete mess, + it's tiny, + it has nothing to do. They literally removed their thesis statement dark ride in favor of literally just another dark ride, only this one doesn't have anything to do with film as a medium. Lmao, Bob what have you done.

 

[HauntedPirate]

To be fair, Pirates of the Caribbean is really the only hyper-successful IP I can think of that has park origins, so if he's looking for multimedia synergies to fuel the rest of his corporate engine, the parks have not traditionally produced much on that front. Figment and Orange Bird are currently only popular in the context of the parks themselves, and films like Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion (2003), Tomorrowland, Country Bear Jamboree, etc. are either mediocre or better off forgotten.

'Tomorrowland' is under-rated, IMHO.

The parks need originality, execution, and showmanship (to borrow a line from "Dance Fever"). Bob has shown that he's not willing to do any of those three. Remember his now-infamous, "I just need to tweet that Galaxy's Edge is open" line and the thinking people would flock to it? It looks nice, but was it worth $1 billion? That $17 billion isn't going to go far in the current WDI climate. Also consider you can look and see no dirt being moved outside of existing projects. But I bet he green-lights a few more DVC properties.

 

[erasure fan1]

DHS originally had clear themes and direction. Modern DHS is just IPland. I never cared for the original theme of DHS, but at least it was a theme. Movies isn't a theme. It's a subject. Visiting movie themed lands isn't a theme, it's a premise. What are the themes of DHS? It literally doesn't have one I'd wager, or at least it doesn't have one that's consistent across the entire park.

As I've said before, Disney doesn't care. While I wouldn't say I was absolutely in love with the "working studio, salute to Hollywood's golden era" theme it originally had. I also don't think it needed to go. Personally I think they should just bring it back, as we all know they will never spend the time, money and effort to fix it proper. At least then you have some sort of direction to lean into.

 

[BlakeW39]

As I've said before, Disney doesn't care. While I wouldn't say I was absolutely in love with the "working studio, salute to Hollywood's golden era" theme it originally had. I also don't think it needed to go. Personally I think they should just bring it back, as we all know they will never spend the time, money and effort to fix it proper. At least then you have some sort of direction to lean into.

Well yeah I know Disney doesn't care. Bob is an IP dude. He doesn't take risks nor does he value creativity in the Disney company. OG Disney-MGM Studios is never coming back. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars just to uproot the park's thesis-statement attraction, and replace it with something that doesn't even really fit the park's original theme. The best we can hope for is a change in leadership which seeks to assume a new thematic direction for DHS, one that still celebrates film but perhaps not in expressly the same way as the park did in the 2000s, which I would say is peak DHS. Honestly though, with how all over the place modern DHS is, I have no clue what set of themes Disney could construct to tie that park back together again.

 

[Andrew25]

The only thing they need to do is put some fake studio props/sets of lighting/camera equipment throughout the "dead spots" in the park. Put some director's chair photo op areas and some other stuff throughout the park and call it a day. There are several walkways like Animation Courtyard to TSL, ABC Commissary, Echo Lake that could use some minor thematic touches to enhance the idea of "celebrating the movies" and not just a bare soundstage wall.

 

[erasure fan1]

Honestly though, with how all over the place modern DHS is, I have no clue what set of themes Disney could construct to tie that park back together again.

That's why I say it will never happen. It would cost too much. And besides that, I don't believe they have the right people to fix any of the parks thematic problems anyway. I have very little faith in the next leadership team. Why? If Iger is in charge of the next hire, we are most likely doomed until that guys fired and they start from scratch.

 

[Ayla]

The only thing they need to do is put some fake studio props/sets of lighting/camera equipment throughout the "dead spots" in the park. Put some director's chair photo op areas and some other stuff throughout the park and call it a day. There are several walkways like Animation Courtyard to TSL, ABC Commissary, Echo Lake that could use some minor thematic touches to enhance the idea of "celebrating the movies" and not just a bare soundstage wall.

This is a great idea and would maybe cost a couple thousand dollars. But it would make a huge difference in the ambiance of the park.

 

[esskay]

One little tidbit from the new lawsuit (WDW sueing Ron) document was that they were planning on (in addition to the $17bn) creating 15k new Disney jobs in FL. Presumably that would be for a major expansion somewhere, be it the 1 new major park that land was assigned for, or for the three minor ones whatever they'd be.

 

[BlakeW39]

That's why I say it will never happen. It would cost too much. And besides that, I don't believe they have the right people to fix any of the parks thematic problems anyway. I have very little faith in the next leadership team. Why? If Iger is in charge of the next hire, we are most likely doomed until that guys fired and they start from scratch.

I think the next 5 years or so will be very interesting to watch. Disney is in a difficult position right now, with most of its film divisions steadily losing money, Disney+ struggling, and the parks garnering increased negative sentiment from fans. I think TWDC is at a kind of crossroads. Who Iger chooses as his successor...how they lead TWDC...if TWDC continues its downward trend or if someone finallg steps in and turns things around. We'll see.

 

[BlakeW39]

That is absolutely true. Besides the crowding issue, I personally think Hollywood Studios is a far better experience than it has ever been.

However, from a park mission statement and theme it’s a pathetic shell of its former self.

The original concept was in my view, too limited in scope, I mean, it was originally just supposed to be a pavilion at EPCOT, but it executed that working film studio in LA perfectly as a half-day park.

With the loss of EPCOT Center (around 20 years ago), MGM Studios, and more recently California Adventure, the only two true theme parks we have left are Animal Kingdom and Tokyo DisneySea. Disneyland Parc Paris also has incredible themed design even if the mission statement itself isn’t as angled as those.

I definitely don’t think that’s the only factor that matters in the enjoyment of a theme park as I have thoroughly enjoyed many of the changes made to California Adventure (scoff, even Pixar Pier, I know, blasphemous), and I enjoy Disneyland Park and Islands of Adventure for than any other parks in America, so it’s not that I don’t have a specific issue with them, for instance, but it is unfortunate to see that shift to every park being homogenous.

Theme parks are an art form, and it appears we’re shifting to lands being an art form.

For the record, Jules Verne’s Mysterious Island land at Tokyo DisneySea and Avatar’s Pandora land at Animal Kingdom are perfect examples of how you can use an IP to fit a park’s theme flawlessly. When aspects that are taken from IPs that work within a theme park are used, I genuinely believe they can often enhance the experience, so I’m not in agreement with people that are vehemently anti-IP.

*BTW, if Moana is used in a way like Avatar in an Oceania land I don’t think it would destroy AK’s theme, but Zootopia could, given its anthropomorphic nature*

Would I like to see more original rides like Mystic Manor? Absolutely, but IPs (with a focus on originality) brought us Tower of Terror and Pandora, so I just hope they balance things more in relation to a park’s theme, as THAT aspect of theme parks I’m afraid we’re losing despite much of the actual experience being an improvement.

Hmm.. well, the whole IP thing is complicated. I don't think most of the people who complain about IP, such as myself, are like, firmly against any and all outside IPs being brought into the parks. That would be silly. I think moreso that the way Disney has obsessed over IP and completely abandoned original ideas has left such a bad taste in many people's mouths that they're just like, "you know what, **** IP." Those are my thoughts at least.

It's not so much that IP in the parks is bad, but rather that the parks cannot ever reach their full potential if original ideas are outlawed outright. There simply aren't enough IPs in Disney's library to flesh out a park based on a specific set of themes. If there were IPs for Disney to use that actually fit the themes of their parks, things would be different, but there aren't enough IPs in Disney's library to make that work. So naturally Disney can't focus on a narrow set of themes in their parks if they want to exclusively use popular movie IPs. That would be too limiting and it wouldn't work.

The way Disney uses IP also feels kind of just like ads as well. Just giant billboards for their "brands" and "franchises." It just feels so tacky, cheap, and corporate.

That said, I do agree on what you said. Seems like the era of parks based on a set of themes that guide their creative direction has passed. Universal isn't doing it and neither is Disney. It seems, as you note, that things have been switched to where now lands are cohesive, and parks are just a collection of different themed lands that probably have nothing to do with one another.

And on the subject of Moana at DAK. It could work, thematically, if as you said they focus on it being a land based on Oceania as a region and not just Moana as a franchise. If they use the animated film as inspiration though, I think the art styles will clash. However, if ANYTHING good could come of the live action remake, lol... it's that I could see it actually fitting into DAK better than the animated film would.

 

[MisterPenguin]

If Iger is in charge of the next hire...

He's not.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'd still call that not caring. IP isn't the issue in my opinion. It's where they put them and how they use them that is the problem. Disney will drop an IP into an area with very little regard to if it fits or makes any sense. Wizarding world was everything that a star wars fan would have wanted out of an IP land. Yet galaxys edge while does look great, falls short. Because they don't care. The star wars name was good enough. We don't need the droids or a restaurant, or another attraction... People will just show up because, DISNEY!

It'd be nice if Galaxy's Edge had all of that. But Hogsmeade (& Diagon) don't have a TSR. It also only had an E-ticket & C-ticket for 9 years until Hagrid opened. GE atleast has an E-ticket & a D-ticket. I imagine GE will get a third ride by the end of the decade.

Taking away the promised roaming droids is a big fail on Disney's part though. They need to do that ASAP.