News Walt Disney Company plans to spend $17 billion at Walt Disney World over the next ten years

[BlakeW39]

Honestly, a lot of that makes sense especially if they do lean into the Americana aspect. I could see Disney being tempted by that because Marvel would make Magic Kingdom an even bigger powerhouse.
They'd have to think about it very carefully though. Going from the normal MK lands into like NYC or something more modern could be jarring if done wrong, but on the other hand it could be magical.

Whatever they eventually do with Marvel, Avengers Campus should NOT be ported over; all of the characters running around is cool, but the theming is so boring.

I'd love a land set in some temperate forests because it's my favorite biome, so I'm down for anyway they could get it into AK.

Well and that's where Magic Kingdom's themes of idealization, romanticization and fantasy come in. A Marvel land at MK shouldn't just look like some generic city environment. It should be a romanticized version of American (Marvel) Comics 616 Universe with all the magic of a Tomorrowland or a Libert Square or whatever. Marvel also is a really diverse brand, so you can do all kinds of rides there with all sorts of characters, environments, and art styles. I honestly think it would be perfect for MK.

Far as temperate forests at DAK go...great thing about a Pleistocene land is you can kill two birds with one stone. Modern temperate ecosystems coexisted with the Pleistocene megafauna as well as ancient cultures, so you can do mammoths and ancient man as well as bison or (Przewalski) wild horses or wolves or something.

 

[BlakeW39]

To me, rides are the #1 reason in addition to so many others why MK is so much weaker. MK's line-up is just not all that good (and it's worse when you consider how outdated everything is) and pathetic when knowing it's the most visited theme park on Earth, and that is why there is a colossal difference on that front. Disneyland's isn't even just great, it's unquestionably the best in the world in terms of rides.

That isn't the whole story, however.

The castle is irrelevant in my mind. It has next to zero impact on the park experience. It is also a perfect scale for the quaintness of Disneyland's Fantasyland (mhmm, that let's see, actually got an update on the original areas instead of the ugliness that are MK's Peter Pan and IASW...) and hub and is iconic. What actually matters are theming throughout the park (both parks do a good job on that front), rides, entertainment, food, service, park hours, queue wait times, cost, etc.

I think nostalgia on these forums way overstates how good Magic Kingdom is in a vacuum and understates how good Disneyland Park is.

Going to them 6 months apart really does put them in a different category. They aren't even close, and it wasn't even close before Galaxy's Edge and Runaway Railway got added.

Fantasmic! especially, and even the Lion King show, easily make up for MK's (outdated besides HoP) audio-animatronic shows and the difference between Happily Ever After and Wondrous Journeys, and then you tack on all the extra headliners and small-scale dark rides, of which nearly everything has been updated and... it's not close.

I disagree with Tomorrowland. I think they're comparable now with the addition of TRON, but before, outside of the PeopleMover (which is my favorite ride in either land on both coasts) I think Orlando's was lacking even more.

I like how there isn't dead space at Disneyland to the extent of Orlando's backside with just trees. The old CoP building at DL is the biggest issue but it doesn't look awful. The Tomorrowland Speedway in Orlando is, by comparison, a huge eyesore, and the old theater spot which is now a parking lot and the trees between Buzz and CoP and CoP and Space bring down the land. It also feels more like a concrete wasteland. TRON would've helped more had the canopy been closer to the land itself instead of tucked away providing a prettier spot like the lagoon at DL does. Astro Orbiter though needs to go at Disneyland. I think Orlando's has more potential and is easier to make great, but they haven't done so, like, they didn't even try with TRON.

They're both easily the weakest lands at either park though, so it's irrelevant in my book. Neither is anything better than okay, but to me they're comparable, so they really don't factor into my thoughts on either park. At least at DL the rides there are ALL updated.

Disneyland has an updated Buzz, an updated Space Mountain, an actually good (and updated!) version of the Speedway in Autopia, an updated Star Tours, and an updated Submarine Voyage that has a beautiful lagoon.

Magic Kingdom has an outdated Buzz, an outdated Space Mountain, an outdated Carousel of Progress, the PeopleMover (the only real loss IMO at Disneyland), Laugh Floor, and TRON. Aesthetically, I actually think Orlando's looks worse once you get past the much better entry, but if MK's was actually build-out in the back and had a lagoon or TRON where the speedway is there'd be no contest. Until then, I prefer Disneyland's, but they're comparable.

If MK was plopped into Disneyland Resort it would be better just because of the park hours, less touristy crowds (with the awesome SoCal laid-back culture), cheaper hotels, maintenance for rides and around the park, service, more seasonal entertainment, and the weather.

That's before you factor in the night and day ride line-up difference, the rides they have actually being up to 21st century standards, Fantasmic! on top of fireworks, walkaround characters, the addition of Galaxy's Edge and Toontown and New Orleans Square being a step-up from any land at MK, much better quick-service, and non-Pre Fixe menus at table service. I'd take Blue Bayou and even Cafe Orleans over any table service at MK even excluding the pre-fixe menus that have ruined Be Our Guest and Cinderella's Royal Table. Skipper Canteen is good but very inconsistent depending on menu items, but it has nothing on Blue Bayou, and the Monte Cristo at Cafe Orleans is better than anything on its menu especially given its nearly half the price of many of its menu items, and of course way cheaper than BoG or Cinderella's.

I just don't think restaurants like Tony's, Liberty Tree Tavern, or Plaza Restaurant are any better menu-wise than a restaurant like Carnation Cafe or River Belle Terrace; they're all just okay even if MK has the leg-up in quantity for table-service. Though, on quick-service, which is much more affordable and allows you to spend more time at the park, Disneyland destroys MK.

I'd much rather eat at an excellent and cheaper Disneyland QS like Plaza Inn, Docking Bay 7, Rancho Del Zocalo, Jolly Holiday Bakery, Little Red Wagon, French Market (I assume Tiana's will be even better), etc. MK's only good options are what? Columbia Harbor House? Gaston's? I don't see the point in paying a lot for mediocre food at the weaker table-service restaurants at either park.

I'm convinced all of these differences are down to the fact that DLR's guest demand more and TWDC is close by so they routinely have emphasized show (because they personally experience it) in a way that is sorely lacking in Orlando. WDW is so dependent on once-in-a-lifetime and once-a-decade guests that they don't need to try as hard to bring people back. MK is fine, and I enjoy it, but it's disingenuous to say they are remotely comparable because that undersells what Disneyland Park brings to the table.

Bigger is better they say. Well resort-wise yes, but theme park-wise, the reason I go to Walt Disney World, Disneyland Resort, or Tokyo Disney Resort, absolutely not.

Yes, there are parks like DisneySea, Disneyland Parc Paris, and Animal Kingdom that may be designed better rather than Disneyland Park which has grown in a more organically over time, but it's only Disneyland Park that can hold its own next to Tokyo DisneySea on every front from the food quality to the service, and even so, DisneySea's ride line-up is a joke compared to DL. To me, they're the faraway number 1 and 2 theme parks overall for all of the reasons listed and more.

There's something so cool about waiting 20 minutes to ride Jungle Cruise after waiting about the same amount of time as MK's outdated Peter Pan's Flight for Indiana Jones Adventure, and then eating an outstanding affordable quick-service meal followed by a chill walk to Fantasmic! instead of being more likely pushed around by a tourist that is running around like a chicken with their head cut off on your way to only one evening show instead of two. All of that and MK can easily be done in a day and a half. Disneyland takes more like 2.5 days to do it right.

I didn't mention in my last post but the maintenance at DLR is just vastly superior to all the parks in Orlando (outside of the current condition of Splash). WDW is so weak on a park-by-park comparison because guests just don't demand more. It's as simple as that.

I agree with you that Disneyland is the strongest but I do think you're making DL out to be better than it really is. You say that bigger isn't better but then you explain that it doesn't matter that other parks are better designed than Disneyland because Disneyland has more things in it. Disneyland Disneyland Disneyland. I like DL too but it's not perfect. Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge....does it really belong in DL, thematically? And if you say yes, what do you think Disneyland's themes are? What is its depth beyond just being a theme park? There's more to a park than just how many rides and shows and good QS it has. Those are all important, but at the end of the day I enjoy DAK more than any other US park and it lacks considerably in terms of rides. Dinosaur is so corny these days it's hard to even get on (thanks whining parents). So I think MK and DL are on par in terms of park design. DL just exceeds MK in terms of attractions and food which makes it the (greatly) superior park.

I don't think you're underselling MK as much as you're overselling DL. DL is awesome but it has its flaws.

 

[UpAllNight]

Magic Kingdom is our least favourite Disney park. It’s not the worst, but for how busy it is, it‘s just lacking and I echo many of the above thoughts. For me, it feels stale, and lazy.

Tron was a strange addition to Magic Kingdom when you consider the lack of high quality dark rides in comparison to Disneyland. It‘s kind of misbalanced the park further by adding an additional coaster, next to 3 other coasters.

Coasters are great, and guaranteed hits most of the time, but it felt like a very safe, lazy option for a park in need of a few Indiana Jones, RotR type masterpieces.

Fantasyland has aged badly & has needed updating for a while, and with so many stories and with so much potential, is under built. Adventureland is a miss as it lacks a quality headliner. For me, a half baked pirates doesn’t quite cut it - It’s the worst version in the world. Tomorrowland has empty space all over & the speedway isn’t charming, it’s in a bad state, taking up prime real estate in the worlds busiest park. The lack of updates to a Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain not being retracked, the empty stitch space & theatre, the fact we’re just about getting a hatbox ghost, Peter Pan being in awful shape…it’s all just very underwhelming for what should be a premium destination.

Closing your best ride doesn‘t help either. They let Splash get into an awful state, when an update would have sufficed.

I’m feeling negative to Disney World at the moment having experienced Paris recently. The cost, the planning, I think the experience needs to be premium, and it isn’t. Hollywood Studios is still a hot mess for how busy it is, that’s lacking several rides and some of the shows have been there since time began. Animal Kingdom celebrated its 25 birthday and somehow STILL lacks enough rides. Disney are messy, in Florida.

Experienced many European parks recently and some are creating Disney level rides, with Disney level attention to detail, at a fraction of the cost (both to develop the rides, and to charge guests).

 

[SpectreJordan]

First, Unviversal ain't giving up lucrative rights. Two, the word "Avengers" is verboten in Florida theme parks, and the word "Marvel" not allowed in any US park. I believe Strange is one of the characters off limits here too. Panther is definetly a no-go. It can't be anyone who is or was a member of the X-men or Avengers family as of 1999.

It really depends on how much Disney would offer for the characters with less presence at Universal. They're not going to budge on the likes of Spidey, Hulk, Cap or the X-Men (for now?). But Black Panther & especially Daredevil (an easter egg about his law office) have such a small presence, I could see Universal selling them for the right price.

Dr Strange seems to be good to go unless he has veeeery weird loophole. Hollywood Studios had a meet & greet with him back in 2016. He's also been in one of their nightime shows too.

The Avengers clause is a bit weird too. Moon Knight was an Avenger in the 80s but Disney has promos in DHS last year for his show, so I imagine he's fair game. IDK how he slipped through but I'm happy if he did.

Well and that's where Magic Kingdom's themes of idealization, romanticization and fantasy come in. A Marvel land at MK shouldn't just look like some generic city environment. It should be a romanticized version of American (Marvel) Comics 616 Universe with all the magic of a Tomorrowland or a Libert Square or whatever. Marvel also is a really diverse brand, so you can do all kinds of rides there with all sorts of characters, environments, and art styles. I honestly think it would be perfect for MK.

Far as temperate forests at DAK go...great thing about a Pleistocene land is you can kill two birds with one stone. Modern temperate ecosystems coexisted with the Pleistocene megafauna as well as ancient cultures, so you can do mammoths and ancient man as well as bison or (Przewalski) wild horses or wolves or something.

You're definitely selling me on how they can implement Marvel into Magic Kingdom. I just hope Disney would put this much thought into it, if they were to do that.

 

[esskay]

Some of this discussion has got me thinking, there's a hell of a lot of (relatively) low-cost 'fixes' they could be applying to rides at WDW, most of which would require zero downtime.

A few examples:


Buzz. The guns are awful, the buttons are often stuck or broken, the design for them is awful. They are screwed into the ride car and plugged in. Build replacements, swap them overnight.

All 3D shows. I've been on Muppets and Philhar so many times when its clear the projectors are dead. Again, these are swapout replacements that can be done with no downtime.

Heck even litterally any animatronic. A like-for-like can, and should be swapped out for practically all of them. It should be part of the rides standard operating proceadure that theres a set of spares available at a moments notice.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Magic Kingdom is our least favourite Disney park. It’s not the worst, but for how busy it is, it‘s just lacking and I echo many of the above thoughts. For me, it feels stale, and lazy.

Tron was a strange addition to Magic Kingdom when you consider the lack of high quality dark rides in comparison to Disneyland. It‘s kind of misbalanced the park further by adding an additional coaster, next to 3 other coasters.

Coasters are great, and guaranteed hits most of the time, but it felt like a very safe, lazy option for a park in need of a few Indiana Jones, RotR type masterpieces.

Fantasyland has aged badly & has needed updating for a while, and with so many stories and with so much potential, is under built. Adventureland is a miss as it lacks a quality headliner. For me, a half baked pirates doesn’t quite cut it - It’s the worst version in the world. Tomorrowland has empty space all over & the speedway isn’t charming, it’s in a bad state, taking up prime real estate in the worlds busiest park. The lack of updates to a Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain not being retracked, the empty stitch space & theatre, the fact we’re just about getting a hatbox ghost, Peter Pan being in awful shape…it’s all just very underwhelming for what should be a premium destination.

Closing your best ride doesn‘t help either. They let Splash get into an awful state, when an update would have sufficed.

I’m feeling negative to Disney World at the moment having experienced Paris recently. The cost, the planning, I think the experience needs to be premium, and it isn’t. Hollywood Studios is still a hot mess for how busy it is, that’s lacking several rides and some of the shows have been there since time began. Animal Kingdom celebrated its 25 birthday and somehow STILL lacks enough rides. Disney are messy, in Florida.

Experienced many European parks recently and some are creating Disney level rides, with Disney level attention to detail, at a fraction of the cost (both to develop the rides, and to charge guests).

Atleast it seems like they're thinking about getting some more stuff in MK. If they go through with the Blue Sky stuff then that'll bolster MK's lineup. I imagine Encanto could be turned into a really dark ride. Coco could too, hopefully they'll do that instead of the rumored FOP system ride.

I definitely agree a lot of MK's lineup could use some help. Maybe if they get these expansions open they can finally get to seriously fixing things. I do feel the consistent high crowds at Disney & awful capacity is part of what's stopping them from updating older rides. If they actually invest in new capacity, that could change that.

 

[J4546]

I could absolutely see a deal for the marvel characters theme park rights being sold to disney in the future. Perhaps a deal where Universal doent even have to retheme superhero island immediately but just cant build new marvel attractions. Its weird to me that Universal has a couple areas (marvel, Simpsons) based on IPs they no longer own, and having areas of the park dedicated to them isnt a bad thing but when your competitor owns all the streaming/merch/rights outside of the theme park itself it seems a sound business decision would be to retheme them to something you own.

Also, for the record even though it will never happen. I think Superhero Island could be rethemed perhaps pretty "easily" into a FnF themed land and it would be pretty sick imo. But since they built that terrible terrible FnF ride they will probably not lol

 

[BlakeW39]

We’re just going to have to disagree. I’m discussing park experience and to me it’s night and day between the two.

If we’re talking about best theme park, neither park would come out on top.

DisneySea followed by Animal Kingdom and then Disneyland Parc Paris are in a league of their own. California Adventure (2015), MGM Studios (before the studio died), and EPCOT Center (until Horizons closed) especially would’ve all been there in the past too, but while I factor that into the park experience, there’s more to what makes a theme park good.

I do consider things like maintenance, modernization of attractions, quality of rides, quantity of rides, length of lines, food quality, park hours, entertainment, service, kindness of crowds, cost, 2 night shows versus one which are both easier to get a spot for, and more to all factor into the park experience.

I already laid-out the reasons why the park itself is better in my view (New Orleans Square being prettier, having rides like Indy, and updated Fantasyland dark rides, random things like characters walking around more, and things like the Explorer Canoes), but things like food, service, and cost are EXTREMELY important to enjoyment at a theme park in addition.

I just don’t enjoy an overcrowded park like MK or Hollywood Studios as much when I have to wait so long for every ride, am dying in the humidity, can’t get decent food at a quick-service, am having to battle tourists for everything, the rides they have are outdated (at MK), there’s not enough rides and things todo, I’ve laid my grievances out already.

I’m friends with multiple Imagineers and it’s a widely (which would be an understatement) held view point that Disneyland Park is the best park in America by a mile and that Walt Disney World excels as a resort, though most don’t really care about that the ‘resort’ because theme parks are why they go to each resort.

I’m not dropping $500 a night on a hotel just to go to their pool. Animal Kingdom takes the cake for themed design in the States, but there’s no way I can find myself spending more time there than Disneyland Park which is a problem. Yes, best themed park, but if we’re walking about the park experience, while someone could argue it, there’s little logic in saying it would be better than DL. MK doesn’t have that level of themed design at all. I’m not disagreeing that WDW as a whole is more impressive than DLR, but MK is weaker than DL when looking at a comprehensive approach. I’m of the belief you can go to an amazing resort for less in the Bahamas if that’s the kind of experience someone wants because you’ll get even better service and it will be cheaper per night.

Nostalgia is just SO powerful. There’s this satisfying feeling being in a bubble that obscures how unreasonable it is to wait in crazy lines for mediocre attractions, eat garbage food at Cosmic Ray’s, along with the other factors I’ve mentioned all the while paying more. I like MK, but I go to WDW for Animal Kingdom and EPCOT. I just think it’s a 7/10 experience while Disneyland Park is a 10/10, so if I desire an MK experience I might as well get the best one and go to Anaheim.

Personally, I’m planning on going to Islands of Adventure, EPCOT, and Animal Kingdom when I’m visiting family in Orlando, and making my home base Disneyland from now on. I’m from Atlanta and I can get Spirit plane tickets, a walking distance hotel to Disneyland, and park tickets for a 5-day stay for two people for under $2000. If you want a castle-park experience, there’s no comparison, and everything new at HWS can be found at Disneyland Park on top of again, the other factors like better maintenance and shorter lines. WDW just spreads each park too thin but they all have crazy attendance levels (especially Magic Kingdom).

I genuinely think DL is the only park that can compete with Tokyo DisneySea. I keep saying that because that is how impressive it is to do what Disneyland Park does. You can disagree, but I laid-out a lot of objective reasons like park hours, non-touristy crowds, maintenance, updated and the quantity of rides, etc.

DisneySea nails the theming first and foremost but also the guest experience for things like food and maintenance. Disneyland Park nails the rides instead of theming but also the guest experience for things like food and maintenance as well. MK doesn’t nail any of those things.

If someone does 5 rides a day, and leaves by 2pm, eating only food at expensive restaurants like Be Our Guest and doesn’t bat an eye, there will be very little difference between MK and DL since they’re not taking advantage of the extra park hours, or the sheer quantity of things to do.

It’s not just rides, either. Sure maintenance is worse in Orlando and the attractions aren’t as updated or numerous, but that type of guest, more the uneducated tourist type, will probably not notice if an animatronic is dead or won’t notice chipped paint. They also don’t know the difference between good and bad crowds if they’ve never compared them and they are the tourist issue, and they most definitely don’t care about wait times for their 5 rides because they have Genie+ for all of them.

I did Disneyland Park for 3 days straight from 9:30am-midnight. It wasn’t until day 3 that I did everything I wanted to do (skipping flat rides). MK isn’t like that at all. It’s an inferior product with more waiting for less, weaker food, and poor maintenance.

There is next to no difference in the quality of theming between MK and DL, though I’d say redoing Toontown, adding rockwork to the Rivers of America, having a pretty castle courtyard in Fantasyland, just having New Orleans Square itself, and adding a Star Wars Land, deeply rooted in Americana, gives DL the upper hand now.

Sure, there’s more “spacing” between rides but that’s almost an indictment against Magic Kingdom for not using the space it has with expansion. I legitimately think you’re way overemphasizing this. I like the quaintness many of Disneyland’s land have, but to me I can see the argument either way on that front, but I don’t think a larger entry area for Tiki Room, or Pirates, or whatever is all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Great if you like Magic Kingdom Park more. You should, we’re on a Disney super fan forum. You should enjoy it. I do too, but it’s like when you’ve tasted chocolate chip cookies, why go back to sugar cookies?

After going to Tokyo, I almost swore off the American parks entirely but Disneyland Park is able to operate on Sea’s level in various ways for me.

If you’re trying to be logical with it, though, while you can still have that opinion, I think it’s not looking at all these aspects I’ve raised and legitimately trying to weigh them. I’ve never met anyone that does the parks right and has been to both resorts and preferred MK. The whole resort yes, but MK?

Hell, I even met Disneyland Paris Cast Members at Disneyland’s Fantasmic last month who were doing an American park tour. They felt Disneyland Park itself was in a different realm versus the Orlando and Paris parks. They’re opinion and mine aren’t fact, people are free to enjoy whatever they want, but I just really don’t understand why anyone would take MK over DL.

Even the piano man on Main Street felt the same!

Nostalgia is powerful and if one only does part of a park rather than all of it, there’s going to be less of a difference.

I wrote a Disneyland Guide (found in my signature) if you want to check out more of my thoughts fleshed out. I’m not going to rant about this anymore, but like I said, you’re free to disagree, I just don’t think you’re fairly weighing what DL brings to the table that MK does not.

I think you're misunderstanding me a little. I agree with you on DL >>> MK. It's not that I think MK is better than you're giving it credit for...I don't, really. For being the most popular theme park on earth you're right that it's exceedingly underwhelming. The quick service food, the attractions, and the general guest experience (crowds, etc.) are all pretty subpar, compared to DL which excels in all those areas.

Where I disagree is that Disneyland is a 10/10 park. It's great in many areas, but it lacks the thematic depth of some other Disney Parks that I appreciate. Which is a significant drawback.

Furthermore, SW land is not a good fit for DL. If we consider DL has similar themes to MK— idealization, fantasy and romanticization —Star Wars reflects pretty much none of those. They just plopped in a location from the SW universe and dropped it in DL. It isn't some romanticized, idealized version of the franchise, which might work, but rather just a typical "immersive" IP land.

I do think Orlando should step its game up though. MK needs major attractions like no other park, and it just lost its best one.

 

[BlakeW39]

Definitely agree on thematic depth! Though that’s not the only reason I love theme parks as Disneyland Park checks off a lot of other boxes for me that more than makes up for it.

Really the only park in the world that does have mind boggling thematic depth is Tokyo DisneySea, with Animal Kingdom being like a very far behind second place.

Anyone that loves theme parks should absolutely make a point DisneySea someday. It’s worth sacrificing multiple WDW trips for. It has a good ride line-up too but not elite like Disneyland Park (though its queue times are bad, the park hours a tad bit short, and the weather gets as humid as Orlando), but that ride line-up issue is about to be changed with the opening of Fantasy Springs.

That’s sort of why I view them as comparable, but for different reasons, as the sum of their parts to me add up to the best two theme park experiences in the world with all other parks falling behind them, but, if we’re talking about thematic connection to a mission statement there’s absolutely no contest DisneySea comes out on top with MK, DL, and others far, far behind.

Interesting you think DisneySea is better themed than DAK. I must admit, I've never been to TDS, but from what I have seen it seems flashier and more filled out, but not more thematically rich than DAK. DAK feels like it's more pretentious in a way, if that makes more sense. Feels like it concerns itself more with intellectual artsy stuff more than TDS. Particularly in that its underlying themes seem clearer albeit sometimes not as well executed (i.e. Dinoland). But again I invite your response because like I said, my knowledge of TDS comes exclusively from the internet.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

I do think Orlando should step its game up though. MK needs major attractions like no other park, and it just lost its best one.

It didn’t lose the Peoplemover

 

[threvester]

can we get a word cap on posts? lol

 

[Ayla]

can we get a word cap on posts? lol

MTE

 

[BlakeW39]

It really depends on how much Disney would offer for the characters with less presence at Universal. They're not going to budge on the likes of Spidey, Hulk, Cap or the X-Men (for now?). But Black Panther & especially Daredevil (an easter egg about his law office) have such a small presence, I could see Universal selling them for the right price.

Dr Strange seems to be good to go unless he has veeeery weird loophole. Hollywood Studios had a meet & greet with him back in 2016. He's also been in one of their nightime shows too.

The Avengers clause is a bit weird too. Moon Knight was an Avenger in the 80s but Disney has promos in DHS last year for his show, so I imagine he's fair game. IDK how he slipped through but I'm happy if he did.

You're definitely selling me on how they can implement Marvel into Magic Kingdom. I just hope Disney would put this much thought into it, if they were to do that.

It's also worth noting that superhero comic books were entrenching themselves in American culture at the exact same time as Walt Disney was, with Superman being created the same year as Snow White, and Stan Lee creating his Silver Age Marvel characters during the same decade or so as Walt Disney was creating his silver age animated films. So, suffice to say I think superheroes fit seemlessly into the romanticized Americana of the MK. Sadly, I do not think Bob understands thematic direction or theme parks as an art form and I couldn't see modern Disney pulling off a good Marvel land at MK. It would probably just be another "immersive" IP land in the vein of SW:GE.

 

[esskay]

can we get a word cap on posts? lol

Short word good. Post no need cap. Just like Kevin say, 'Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?'

 

[Ayla]

Short word good. Post no need cap. Just like Kevin say, 'Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?'

It's a message board, not an academic dissertation.

 

[erasure fan1]

Sadly, I do not think Bob understands thematic direction or theme parks as an art form

While I think he does understand it, I truly believe he just doesn't care. None of the executives care about thematic integrity. As long as the gates turn, who cares, is the attitude at Disney right now.

 

[James Alucobond]

While I think he does understand it, I truly believe he just doesn't care. None of the executives care about thematic integrity. As long as the gates turn, who cares, is the attitude at Disney right now.

I'm not sure they don't care. Right or wrong, I think there's just a mindset that the power of the brand is bound up in IP and that immersive facsimiles of IP are superior to the generic lands of old. The success of things like the Wizarding World has only strengthened this belief.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm not sure they don't care. Right or wrong, I think there's just a mindset that the power of the brand is bound up in IP and that immersive facsimiles of IP are superior to the generic lands of old. The success of things like the Wizarding World has only strengthened this belief.

That's part of it. From what some hear have said, many in upper management don't understand theme parks and think they are for Carnies.

 

[erasure fan1]

I'm not sure they don't care. Right or wrong, I think there's just a mindset that the power of the brand is bound up in IP and that immersive facsimiles of IP are superior to the generic lands of old. The success of things like the Wizarding World has only strengthened this belief.

I'd still call that not caring. IP isn't the issue in my opinion. It's where they put them and how they use them that is the problem. Disney will drop an IP into an area with very little regard to if it fits or makes any sense. Wizarding world was everything that a star wars fan would have wanted out of an IP land. Yet galaxys edge while does look great, falls short. Because they don't care. The star wars name was good enough. We don't need the droids or a restaurant, or another attraction... People will just show up because, DISNEY!

 

[BlakeW39]

No contest on the theming front. It's in another realm due to the quantity and the way the lands transition, as it's not just bridges, they flow sort of like how Frontierland goes into Liberty Square, but taken 50 steps further. There isn't anything like it in the world.

That being said, AK does feel richer in a sense, more grounded, or pretentious like you put it for both the Africa and Asia lands.

That tonal difference is worth noting as Animal Kingdom has a more pointed mission statement with man's relationship to nature.

However...

While I love both parks, DisneySea as a park is sooo much more impressive that they aren't really comparable, to be honest. Anyone that can afford to go to Walt Disney World on a near-yearly basis should skip a year or two or three if necessary and go to Tokyo (besides the fact that Japan is one of the most beautiful countries in the world). It is a rite of passage for any theme park fan because it's not only the fact that the service, food, and maintenance, among other things, are all the best of the best, not to mention tickets start at $70 a day with food being inexpensive, but Tokyo DisneySea is a monumental achievement of which it has no rival.

It is one of the greatest pieces of modern art in existence.

There's just not actually much there in the way of quantity at Animal Kingdom unfortunately, which is due to its smaller budget it started out with at around a 4th of what DisneySea had around the same time. I know a lot of people say it's a half-day park, it's most definitely not, but it's also not a multi-day park unless you really like theme parks in my opinion.

They have both had large expansions since their openings with Animal Kingdom adding Kalli River Rapids, Expedition Everest, and Pandora, and Tokyo DisneySea adding Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania!, Soarin', and replacing StormRider with SeaRider with Fantasy Springs bringing in what is effectively 3 new lands next year.

There are a ton of trees and dead space at AK, which while on theme with the nature aspect, does come at the expense of richly themed areas like Asia and Africa because they didn't have the money to add more lands like those or make them larger back when it first opened.

American Waterfront alone feels far bigger than Africa and Pandora combined. It's definitely not in actual acreage, but that building out cost a crazy amount of money and means it's far more impressive because of it. I'd honestly say DisneySea feels about like 3 Animal Kingdoms given what's there.

If you add up Asia, Africa, and Pandora, to me, they equal about what American Waterfront and Mysterious Island do given their sizes. Then, DisneySea also has Mediterranean Harbor, Lost River Delta, and Arabian Coast, all being elite lands as well. Port Discovery is leagues better than Dinoland still, and once you toss in Mermaid Lagoon and the incoming Fantasy Springs, man, even factoring in Discovery Island and the Oasis, there is just no contest. DisneySea just has so much more, and what it has are all equal or better quality.

I'd honestly say out of the 5 best-themed lands in the world, at least 3 if not 4 of them are at Tokyo DisneySea.

If you focus on rides, AK has like what? 3 headliners with Flight of Passage, Expedition Everest, and Kilimanjaro Safaris, and 1 E-ticket with Dinosaur. The rides they have are so good just so few in quantity making Animal Kingdom in dire need of a couple more E-tickets more than anything on top of a couple C-tickets.

By comparison, DisneySea has two headliners in Indiana Jones and Journey to the Center of the Earth, and 4 E-tickets in Sinbad, Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania!, and Soaring, with the theming for all of them being exceptional. I will add that DisneySea has easily the best ride line-up for any Disney non-castle park, however, it isn't out of this world, but when Fantasy Springs opens, I expect it to be, as it's expected to add two headliners with Neverland and Arendelle on top of a couple C-tickets.

Now, thematically speaking is what this conversation is about, as DisneySea still can't compete with Disneyland Park on rides (or even Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios Japan) so as a complete experience it's actually comparable to Disneyland Park for me, but the theming, the theming of DisneySea can't be understated.

Yes, Animal Kingdom's trails are excellent and unique to the park, but DisneySea's lands themselves have so much more sprawling depth to them that they're practically experiences like that in of themselves. Not to mention that Fortress Explorations and other walkthroughs do exist and shows like Big Band Beat (among others) easily make up for the Festival of the Lion King and AK's other entertainment offerings.

I'm glad both parks are on this planet as they feel entirely different and I love them both, but it's sort of like comparing Disneyland Park to Magic Kingdom in that there's no comparison if we're trying to gauge that. It is DisneySea way up here, Animal Kingdom 100 feet below, and every other park in the world 200 feet below that in terms of thematic consistency and theming itself.

The sheer magnitude of the lands, fully built out, is mindblowing in person. Mysterious Island is just so inspiring, and then by the time you wander through the caverns in the rockwork you are convinced it’s a real place. The entire experience builds up to Journey to the Center of the Earth, which to me, is one of the most realistic attractions at any theme park despite it being stunted by its relatively short length. And not to mention, every restaurant in the park has theming that is so unearthly impressive including the land's Vulcania. As good as Pandora or Diagon Alley or even Cars Land are, and Galaxy's Edge and Hogsmeade too, and toss in Africa and Asia for good measure, this land genuinely transports you in a way like no other.
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Themed to the turn of the century New York, theming just the ground level wasn't enough in American Waterfront! They integrated the land with an elevated Electric Railway so ALL the buildings it faces have theming that goes up to it multiple stories higher than would otherwise be needed.

The area that reminds me of this is sitting at Harambe Market in Animal Kingdom with the Wildlife Express Train going by being surrounded with ridiculously impressive theming. Both are excellent places, but DisneySea takes it a massive step further.

Again, I think Animal Kingdom is the second-best theme park in the world, but it just cannot compare with the magnitude that DisneySea offers. But man, not only is this land gigantic, the little details like sewers spewing fake steam, or posters like Harambe has at AK telling of a place that's lived-in is crazy. It's absolutely on AK's level just so much larger than anything it has. Perhaps not as rich in terms of authenticity due to the steady hand of Joe Rhode (though I can't say that for sure), but the whole park is sort of a romanticized take on the world's ports of call, so they're tonally a bit different experiences. Though, the highlights are both equal in quality and dare I say better at DisneySea. There's just so much more at DisneySea.
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It also happens to be my favorite land in the world.
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And the park is just seemingly endless. There's always something to explore with what basically amounts to lands within lands. Plus, toss in all of the kinetic energy by having boats, the electric railway, and vehicles throughout the park!
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The entry land, Mediterranean Harbor, has 3 sections that are different parts of Italy from Tuscany to of course Venice:
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Here's the Tuscany section with Soarin' as its marquee attraction. This is about only half of that section.

I just love the way the park uses walkways at various heights. They add so much to the design of the park.
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And the main part of the land with a breathtaking view of the harbor with Mysterious Island looming in the distance with Fortress Explorations and the best theme park restaurant in the world, Magellan's, in front of it! I assume this photo was taken from the in-park resort, Hotel MiraCosta.
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I didn't even include photos of Lost River Delta, Port Discovery, Mermaid Lagoon, or the Cape Cod and the port areas of American Waterfront, but all of them are on AK's peak level outside of Mermaid Lagoon, which is still better than Dinoland.

And to top it all off, if that wasn't impressive enough, they were like "Why don't we integrate it with the ocean itself!"
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So yeah, I think it's better.

Yeah you make some solid points. DisneySEA just seems like it's on a much larger scale than DAK. DAK was subjected to many many post-EuroDisneyland Eisner budget cuts.