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Voyage of the Little Mermaid is done, won't reopen with the parks.

brb1006

Well-Known Member
The only notable change in Voyage of the Little Mermaid is that Ursula no longer looks like Bea Arthur.
Ursula.PNG

Also the King Triton projection/lasers are no longer used.
Tritan.PNG


Tritan2.PNG


Capture.PNG


Footage of the lasers for King Tritan.
 

bryanfze55

Well-Known Member
To each their own. I don't see much to applaud them for pre-Pandora, and I think Ratatouille and Tron are both the most overrated attractions from their respective resorts. While I never loved GMR, I think the decision to replace it instead of building MMRR was incredibly short-sighted in a park that has always been attraction starved. Ditto Frozen & Maelstrom. TSL are two barely-disguised off the shelf rides. Even if ROTR really lives up to the hype, I still don't know if I'd say the clear winner of the past decade has been WDW.

What are your issues with Shanghai's lineup? The park has issues, sure, but the attractions aren't included in that IMO; the only attraction that's outright bad is Crystal Grotto.

I would say WDW is the winner based on sheer volume alone, but as I said - the quality is hit or miss, plus it also needs to expand at twice as many parks as any other Disney resort in the world. Looking back, it’s probably more “miss” than “hit” unfortunately.

It doesn’t have the rides that make a Disneyland “Disneyland.” It tried to be different to meet the needs of a different culture. If someone is into that, wonderful. I just have a different preference. I’ll say this about the rides, based only on my readings and not having visited...

For the pros:
-Pirates is amazing, I’m sure. No one has said otherwise. So I believe it.

-Peter Pan and Buzz seem very technologically modernized, which is cool and all. But I am fine with the Disneyland versions tbh.

-Roaring Rapids seems cool with the animatronic monster

Now, the cons:
-Tron, even you say is overrated. If it’s going to be mediocre at WDW, it’s also mediocre in Shanghai. I also don’t like the dystopian vibes, and I’m against bringing it to MK. Jet Packs look neat, but again, just not the vibes I want in Tomorrowland at Disney.

-You say HS’s Toy Story Land is off the shelf, and while I kind of agree, I’ll take Toy Story Mania and Slinky Dog Dash over the rides in Shanghai’s TSL. I also don’t like the idea of TSL in a castle park. Again, if it’s bad in HS, it’s bad in Shanghai too.

-Crystal Grotto, like you said, is lame.

-Winnie the Pooh is basically the same ride as it is at WDW, which is kind of disappointing having been built fifteen years later.

-I don’t even care much for 7DMT at WDW, so it has no appeal to me in Shanghai either. I’ve also read the Shanghai version is missing a scene and has poor staging.

-Why do they have Pooh’s Hunny Pot Spin? What’s wrong with Tea Cups? Seems redundant to have two Pooh rides in Fantasyland.

-Soaring is the same as it is in the US parks. If it’s mediocre here (which I think it is), it’s mediocre there.

-Having Mickey Ave. instead of Main Street is just icing on a cake of mediocrity.

Where’s Splash Mountain? Big Thunder? Where’s Jungle Cruise? Where is my Tiki Room?? Honestly, the only reason to visit IMO (from a ride perspective) is Pirates. And truth be told, I’m too much of a stubborn *** that I would probably still prefer Disneyland’s Pirates after riding it.
 

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
I don't see much to applaud them for pre-Pandora, and I think Ratatouille and Tron are both the most overrated attractions from their respective resorts. While I never loved GMR, I think the decision to replace it instead of building MMRR was incredibly short-sighted in a park that has always been attraction starved. Ditto Frozen & Maelstrom. TSL are two barely-disguised off the shelf rides. Even if ROTR really lives up to the hype, I still don't know if I'd say the clear winner of the past decade has been WDW.

What are your issues with Shanghai's lineup? The park has issues, sure, but the attractions aren't included in that IMO; the only attraction that's outright bad is Crystal Grotto.

Yeah, Pandora and Galaxy's Edge (RotR does live up to the hype) are definitely the highlights of the past decade at WDW.

I think NFL was also a solid expansion for MK, with many beautiful areas... although they should have cut The Little Mermaid in favor of making 7DMT a true e-ticket - that would have put NFL more on par with Pandora.

Other substantial improvements have included the expansion of Africa at DAK, which added more beautifully-themed structures and areas to explore (thus turning it into a complete-feeling land).

GMR --> MMRR is sort-of a wash, Maelstrom --> FEA is sort-of a wash (plus damaging to WS's thematic integrity) although the some of the design work around the M&G area is a nice addition, Ratatouille is apparently mediocre although the France pavilion expansion area might be nice (if it doesn't end up being too cartoony), Tron is mediocre (I was a fairly disappointed with Tron when I rode it in Shanghai... while it's much better than us getting nothing new for MK, it's nothing really special), and TSL is obviously just okay.
 

Mousertainment

Well-Known Member
The minimal use of Tangled in the parks is criminal. I get the cry of not wanting more IP but Tangled is such a perfect fit for theme park application that it's crazy that all we have is a appearance in a parade, a couple random meet and greets and a bathroom.
It's better represented in Anaheim with the full Fantasy Faire show as well as a sequence in Mickey & The Magical Map. Plus a Meet & Greet.

That said - I like the MK restroom area for the theming. It makes me smile to walk through the area or pause and rest a bit.
 

*Grand Admiral Thrawn*

Well-Known Member
I still think Tangled would make a fantastic boat ride. I want an At Last I’ve Seen the Light indoor scene, it would be amazing.

Rapunzel is a German fairy tale, which means in addition to MK, it could go in that old Rhine River Cruise spot at Epcot, just saying...
I wish a Tangled boat ride could replace It's a Small World and put It's a Small World somewhere in EPCOT.
 

WDW Pro

Well-Known Member
I would say WDW is the winner based on sheer volume alone, but as I said - the quality is hit or miss, plus it also needs to expand at twice as many parks as any other Disney resort in the world. Looking back, it’s probably more “miss” than “hit” unfortunately.

It doesn’t have the rides that make a Disneyland “Disneyland.” It tried to be different to meet the needs of a different culture. If someone is into that, wonderful. I just have a different preference. I’ll say this about the rides, based only on my readings and not having visited...

For the pros:
-Pirates is amazing, I’m sure. No one has said otherwise. So I believe it.

-Peter Pan and Buzz seem very technologically modernized, which is cool and all. But I am fine with the Disneyland versions tbh.

-Roaring Rapids seems cool with the animatronic monster

Now, the cons:
-Tron, even you say is overrated. If it’s going to be mediocre at WDW, it’s also mediocre in Shanghai. I also don’t like the dystopian vibes, and I’m against bringing it to MK. Jet Packs look neat, but again, just not the vibes I want in Tomorrowland at Disney.

-You say HS’s Toy Story Land is off the shelf, and while I kind of agree, I’ll take Toy Story Mania and Slinky Dog Dash over the rides in Shanghai’s TSL. I also don’t like the idea of TSL in a castle park. Again, if it’s bad in HS, it’s bad in Shanghai too.

-Crystal Grotto, like you said, is lame.

-Winnie the Pooh is basically the same ride as it is at WDW, which is kind of disappointing having been built fifteen years later.

-I don’t even care much for 7DMT at WDW, so it has no appeal to me in Shanghai either. I’ve also read the Shanghai version is missing a scene and has poor staging.

-Why do they have Pooh’s Hunny Pot Spin? What’s wrong with Tea Cups? Seems redundant to have two Pooh rides in Fantasyland.

-Soaring is the same as it is in the US parks. If it’s mediocre here (which I think it is), it’s mediocre there.

-Having Mickey Ave. instead of Main Street is just icing on a cake of mediocrity.

Where’s Splash Mountain? Big Thunder? Where’s Jungle Cruise? Where is my Tiki Room?? Honestly, the only reason to visit IMO (from a ride perspective) is Pirates. And truth be told, I’m too much of a stubborn *** that I would probably still prefer Disneyland’s Pirates after riding it.

And let's get real... Mickey Avenue was always a reality because the Chinese Communist Party would never allow pro America concepts into their country, Mainstreet USA included. Winnie the Pooh was likely buried under the Mickey Avenue asphalt.
 

bryanfze55

Well-Known Member
And let's get real... Mickey Avenue was always a reality because the Chinese Communist Party would never allow pro America concepts into their country, Mainstreet USA included. Winnie the Pooh was likely buried under the Mickey Avenue asphalt.

Winnie the Pooh is English, not American. Your general thesis is correct, though... the park was heavily altered for Chinese sensibilities... which is fine and all. But I can maintain that it’s too different from what a Disneyland park should be.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
I would say WDW is the winner based on sheer volume alone, but as I said - the quality is hit or miss, plus it also needs to expand at twice as many parks as any other Disney resort in the world. Looking back, it’s probably more “miss” than “hit” unfortunately.

It doesn’t have the rides that make a Disneyland “Disneyland.” It tried to be different to meet the needs of a different culture. If someone is into that, wonderful. I just have a different preference. I’ll say this about the rides, based only on my readings and not having visited...

For the pros:
-Pirates is amazing, I’m sure. No one has said otherwise. So I believe it.

-Peter Pan and Buzz seem very technologically modernized, which is cool and all. But I am fine with the Disneyland versions tbh.

-Roaring Rapids seems cool with the animatronic monster

Now, the cons:
-Tron, even you say is overrated. If it’s going to be mediocre at WDW, it’s also mediocre in Shanghai. I also don’t like the dystopian vibes, and I’m against bringing it to MK. Jet Packs look neat, but again, just not the vibes I want in Tomorrowland at Disney.

-You say HS’s Toy Story Land is off the shelf, and while I kind of agree, I’ll take Toy Story Mania and Slinky Dog Dash over the rides in Shanghai’s TSL. I also don’t like the idea of TSL in a castle park. Again, if it’s bad in HS, it’s bad in Shanghai too.

-Crystal Grotto, like you said, is lame.

-Winnie the Pooh is basically the same ride as it is at WDW, which is kind of disappointing having been built fifteen years later.

-I don’t even care much for 7DMT at WDW, so it has no appeal to me in Shanghai either. I’ve also read the Shanghai version is missing a scene and has poor staging.

-Why do they have Pooh’s Hunny Pot Spin? What’s wrong with Tea Cups? Seems redundant to have two Pooh rides in Fantasyland.

-Soaring is the same as it is in the US parks. If it’s mediocre here (which I think it is), it’s mediocre there.

-Having Mickey Ave. instead of Main Street is just icing on a cake of mediocrity.

Where’s Splash Mountain? Big Thunder? Where’s Jungle Cruise? Where is my Tiki Room?? Honestly, the only reason to visit IMO (from a ride perspective) is Pirates. And truth be told, I’m too much of a stubborn *** that I would probably still prefer Disneyland’s Pirates after riding it.

I think the argument could be made that the last traditional (some might read that as "real") castle park was Paris. But I'm not necessarily against them evolving the overall castle park concept in newer markets, like Hong Kong or Shanghai, AS LONG AS they respect the heritage and tradition that already exists at the older four castle parks. The issue is not, IMO, that the newer parks try something different, but that apparently they are incapable of respecting each park/resort as its own entity with its own needs. Instead, now every park is basically treated like Shanghai Disneyland, which isn't necessarily Shanghai's fault but is symptomatic of other problems within WDI and the directives from the top.

To be honest, Shanghai is the park I'm least eager to return to, and part of that is the different feel of it vs the other resorts, but part of that aren't necessarily the resort's fault (one of them being that getting in and around China is a bit more of a process). In park, however, it wasn't that big of a deal. I still maintain that experiencing a park in person vs judging it from a computer is very different and that every Disney fan with the means should go to all of them, instead of going back to WDW or DLR for the 30th time.

What resonates as important within the framework of a castle park is going to be different for each person, but for me the greater losses at SDL are the lack of a train and an IASW. While you (and I) value many of the attractions you listed, it's also true that Disneyland Paris gets by just fine without a Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise, or Splash Mountain. And I can't entirely fault Disney for paying closer attention to what they thought would play in Mainland China after they got burned for making arrogant assumptions about their audience in both Paris and Hong Kong.

In terms of some other points:
-We both agree that there is no such thing as a good Toy Story area and that 7DMT in any context is underwhelming (though WDW did get the better version).
-The WDW Pooh is their default for whatever reason (Pooh makes $$ in most markets, relatively cheap cost to build). If I was in charge, it'd be Hunny Hunt or another ride. But at any rate, it's hardly the first time they've stuck direct clones of existing rides in the international parks and it won't be the last. From their perspective, they have save money somewhere, hence direct cloning.
-I'm ok with the Hunny Pot Spin in place of the tea cups. It's still functionally the same ride. And is it fair to penalize Shanghai for having two Pooh rides next to each other when DL has two Alice rides next to each other? At any rate, we can all enjoy the irony of two Pooh rides in a country where WTP is banned!
-Sure, new Soarin' is mediocre. No argument there. But I can't blame them for building it and it plays like gangbusters to the Chinese audiences. And while I'm sure it doesn't live up to Tokyo's version in terms of polish, the presentation of the attraction and queue is much nicer than either of the US parks.
-Given a choice, I would have preferred a Main Street, BUT 1) The Chinese have no context for and no reason to be nostalgic for 1900s small town America, and 2) Disneyland Paris' Main Street is so exceptional that I'm not sure it's possible to top it. If a concept has already been executed to its best possible level, it should be acceptable to move on to something new (much in the same way that if a TV series has hit its peak, it should be allowed to end and not be forced to meander on for another five years). And in person, Mickey Avenue works better than I would have expected.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to critique Shanghai, but I get tired of reading critiques (not from you specifically, but in a general sense) that basically penalize International Park X for not being exactly like Disneyland or Magic Kingdom when they have different needs and serve different guests, cultures, and Disney directives. More often then not, they were designed as their own thing, even if they borrow from existing experiences, and should be treated as such. As long as Disney gives the same level of service as it does in the other parks and provides a great experience and great attractions, that's what matters.
 
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marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
I think the original plan for DHS was to have new stages shows every year or two (@marni1971 could probably confirm or tell me I'm wrong). I know they had several different shows early on that would run for 6 months or so before creating the Little Mermaid and BATB shows that have now lasted forever..
BatB opened in the original Theatre of the Stars in the hub before moving to the backlot. Then it moved to Sunset in 1994 in an abridged form and stayed ever since. Pocahontas then Hunchback ran in the backlot theatre at the same time as Beast on sunset so they certainly had variety.

Mermaid replaced Here Come the Muppets, which wasn’t originally planned but they needed to add quick capacity. So they built a new WD Theatre for the tour finale, and used the original finale theatre for Muppets then Mermaid. Like a lot of DHS, having a stage show in this location was unplanned.
 

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