Video - Splash Mtn finale Jan 22 (all animatronics broken)

[lebeau]

Airfare can greatly fluctuate. My recent trip wasn't planned as I had a death in the family on that coast. But one week ahead of time, I got a $252 (all taxes and fees) trip from SoFla to LAX fare. Even better, got my free First Class upgrade on the outbound too, due to my status!

But the point is fares aren't always much more and can be less depending on where you are coming from, when you are going and how flexible you are (I have friends that aren't flexible at all and will spend $678 to fly on a Friday when if they flew Sunday the fare is half the price etc).

As to lodging, all I can say is if you stay on property at WDW and do off at DL, you can save HUGE sums of money (unless you regularly stay at WDW resorts for $45 a night).

I never rent a car in O-Town as I am either driving up or sometimes using DME and relying on friends to head off property, but I just had a brand new and very nice mid size rental for $93 a week in SoCal.

Everyone is different, so one piece of advice certainly doesn't fit all (and may not fit you). BUT ... I so often hear that DL is just so much pricier an option than WDW and my experience and perspective is that it largely isn't.

~A new sister? Who knew?~

I'm keeping a close eye on air fare. If it drops within range, we might make our first trip to the west coast. (At the moment, prices are moving in the wrong direction.)

I agree that people should be more open to DL. A lot of WDW fans just ignore it. They assume it's too expensive. And that may not be the case. Having said that, sometimes it is too expensive.

In my personal situation, I had just spent a few days trying to make a trip to DL work. So when I read "I find it asinine to not go because it's more expensive--it's not" it rubbed me the wrong way. Sometimes it is too expensive and there's nothing asinine about that.

Also, I'm dealing with little kids here. A trip to DL involves longer and more expensive flights and a 3-hour time change. These are not minor considerations when young children or involved (or my wife for that matter... :lookaroun)

I'm not a blind pixie dust addict. I fully endorse a critical view of WDW and comparisons to DL and other parks. But it's unrealistic to suggest that everyone has the freedom to travel to their park of their choice as though they are interchangeable.

To be completely honest, the trip I am planning in the fall is not a certainty. We're working hard to make it a reality. It's a long term goal and has been for a while now. So, yeah, I was a bit insulted by the suggestion that I was aiming for the wrong coast.

I am certain Tom meant no insult. But, I couldn't let it pass without offering a counter point.

 

[fosse76]

I'm keeping a close eye on air fare. If it drops within range, we might make our first trip to the west coast. (At the moment, prices are moving in the wrong direction.)

I think flights are the most prohibitive cost, particularly if you live on the East Coast. I was lucky...I managed to get a round trip flight on Virgin America from JFK for $300. I'm taking a super-early flight, but the price point was available for later flights as well. I can't wait!

I agree that people should be more open to DL. A lot of WDW fans just ignore it. They assume it's too expensive. And that may not be the case. Having said that, sometimes it is too expensive.

I think people only price the on-property hotels when they consider DLR, which is a disservice. Without the EMH that WDW offers, there really is no need to stay on property, as there are literally dozens of clean, safe and inexpensive motels and hotels within walking distance.

In my personal situation, I had just spent a few days trying to make a trip to DL work. So when I read "I find it asinine to not go because it's more expensive--it's not" it rubbed me the wrong way. Sometimes it is too expensive and there's nothing asinine about that.

Plane fare is expensive...I travel alone so it is a little easier for me, but I had initially planned on going on a weekend trip to Orlando (though to visit Universal, not Disney). Airfare was even more expensive.

I'm not a blind pixie dust addict. I fully endorse a critical view of WDW and comparisons to DL and other parks. But it's unrealistic to suggest that everyone has the freedom to travel to their park of their choice as though they are interchangeable.

Flights to CA are definitely more expensive, but hotels (excepting, of course, the Disney properties) could possibly make up the difference.

 

[lebeau]

I think flights are the most prohibitive cost, particularly if you live on the East Coast. I was lucky...I managed to get a round trip flight on Virgin America from JFK for $300. I'm taking a super-early flight, but the price point was available for later flights as well. I can't wait!


I think people only price the on-property hotels when they consider DLR, which is a disservice. Without the EMH that WDW offers, there really is no need to stay on property, as there are literally dozens of clean, safe and inexpensive motels and hotels within walking distance.


Plane fare is expensive...I travel alone so it is a little easier for me, but I had initially planned on going on a weekend trip to Orlando (though to visit Universal, not Disney). Airfare was even more expensive.


Flights to CA are definitely more expensive, but hotels (excepting, of course, the Disney properties) could possibly make up the difference.

In my research, I didn't even look at Disney owned hotels. No way I'm paying Disney prices when there are nice places across the street. But I can see where someone who is used to WDW would be reluctant to look off property. You get conditioned to think on-property is the way to go.

No doubt DL offers an opportunity for cheaper hotel rooms. If it were just me and my wife, it would probably come out to a wash with the more expensive air fare. Or at least be close enough. But you throw 2 kids in the mix and air fare prices currently being on the high side, and suddenly DL is significantly more expensive than WDW for us.

That obviously won't be the case for everyone. But that's really my entire point. There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to the WDW vs. DL debate.

 

[NewfieFan]

I have been trying to get out to DL for a while now. We're planning a Disney trip for the fall. I started pricing both DL and WDW. Long story short, airfare to DL puts it out of reach for us. Maybe prices will come down to within our budget between now and then. But for now, it's a deal breaker even with the savings of being able to get a room off property.

Some people may be making excuses not to go. But some of us really want to go and price really is the deciding factor.

Add me to the list of those who have to pay way more for flights to DL than WDW. I flight to DL would be our vacation budget for the whole trip!

I understand where you're coming from. But I have to disagree.

The trip I am planning this fall is because my girls want to go. The youngest (currently 2) is in the throes of princess mania. Every day, she asks me when "the castle will be open". She really wants to hug the princesses like in the commercial (score one for Disney marketing).

With younger kids, I really think DLR would work out better for us than the sprawling complex that is WDW. I love the idea that everything would be within walking distance and there would be no need to cram strollers and kids into a packed Disney World bus.

But like I said before, unless air fare drops dramatically, DL just isn't in the cards this year. Airfare from CVG to LAX is in the $500 range. Multiply that by 4 and it makes for a $2,000 trip before we have taken in a single attraction. Heck, that doesn't even get us to Annaheim!

Flights to MCO are currently in the $300 range. But I expect they will drop as low as $200. And worst case sceneario is that we can drive.

Getting back to my original point, I think you're generalizing based on your own situation. We don't get down to WDW every year. So it's not simply a matter of putting off an annual trip in order to afford a more desirable one. We put off annual trips to be able to get to WDW every few years.

In my position, I can't tell my two year old that the castle won't open for another year or so because DL does a better job with maintenance. I mean, I could. But then my wife would kill me.

I'm sure you get the point. It's great you're championing DL. I'd love to go experience it myself. But there are legitimate reasons to stick with WDW for a lot of people. Unfortunately, I fit in that group.

(Btw, I have read quite a bit of your blog when considering DL as an option.)

I'm sorry but I had to smile when you posted the price of flights to LAX... if I can get four tickets to Orlando for $2000 (taxes included) it's a steal!!! It costs a freakin' fortune for us just to get to WDW. So sad!

Right now the cheapest flight to LAX for us is over $5000 return!

 

[lebeau]

Add me to the list of those who have to pay way more for flights to DL than WDW. I flight to DL would be our vacation budget for the whole trip!


I'm sorry but I had to smile when you posted the price of flights to LAX... if I can get four tickets to Orlando for $2000 (taxes included) it's a steal!!! It costs a freakin' fortune for us just to get to WDW. So sad!

Right now the cheapest flight to LAX for us is over $5000 return!

indeed!

We're looking to keep our airfare under 1K this trip. Ideally, quite a bit under 1K. I figure for around $400, I can rent a car and drive. It's a 14 hour drive, but you lose a day flying anyway. Still, 28 hours in the car with the kids... I'd rather fly if we can work it out.

If I had to pay your prices, that would probably be the end of regular Disney trips for us. Hats off to ya!

 

[GrumpyFan]

This post has veered wildly off-topic, but I wanted to add a quote that I found recently from Walt regarding quality.

You see, I'm not Disney anymore. I used to be Disney, but now Disney is something we've built up in the public mind over the years. It stands for something, and you don't have to explain what it is to the public. They know what Disney is when they hear about our films or go to Disneyland. They know they're going to get a certain quality, a certain kind of entertainment. And that's what Disney is.
​

I'm not all doom and gloom, nor do I think the parks are as bad as some make them out to be, I do think they have fallen in some way from what this quote would infer.

 

[NoChesterHester]

This post has veered wildly off-topic, but I wanted to add a quote that I found recently from Walt regarding quality.

You see, I'm not Disney anymore. I used to be Disney, but now Disney is something we've built up in the public mind over the years. It stands for something, and you don't have to explain what it is to the public. They know what Disney is when they hear about our films or go to Disneyland. They know they're going to get a certain quality, a certain kind of entertainment. And that's what Disney is.
​

I'm not all doom and gloom, nor do I think the parks are as bad as some make them out to be, I do think they have fallen in some way from what this quote would infer.

Good quote.

While I can get caught up in complaining sometimes, I also remember well the state of the parks of 6-8 years ago. Things had really gone into the crapper compared to today. I do believe some positive progress has been made.

We all need to be mindful that while our unified voices may make a positive difference, we (Disney online fan community) can also appear to be nothing more then unending complainers at times. It dilutes our case when everything gets panned with huge outcry. Nothing can ever be good enough.

A perfect example is Star Tours... brilliant overhaul of an aging attraction. The fan community's reaction was positive, but faded quickly as some said "well it should have been done a long time ago." Attendance didn't raise. Lines didn't increase. That effort should have been evangelized by the online rabid fans...

 

[ToTBellHop]

Good quote.

While I can get caught up in complaining sometimes, I also remember well the state of the parks of 6-8 years ago. Things had really gone into the crapper compared to today. I do believe some positive progress has been made.

We all need to be mindful that while our unified voices may make a positive difference, we (Disney online fan community) can also appear to be nothing more then unending complainers at times. It dilutes our case when everything gets panned with huge outcry. Nothing can ever be good enough.

A perfect example is Star Tours... brilliant overhaul of an aging attraction. The fan community's reaction was positive, but faded quickly as some said "well it should have been done a long time ago." Attendance didn't raise. Lines didn't increase. That effort should have been evangelized by the online rabid fans...

lines didn't increase? It seemed a lot more popular to me 3 weeks ago compared to before the refurbishment.

 

[xdan0920]

lines didn't increase? It seemed a lot more popular to me 3 weeks ago compared to before the refurbishment.

I second that. I was there in November and I waited 45 minutes or so for Star Tours. I never ever waited that long before.

 

[the-reason14]

I second that. I was there in November and I waited 45 minutes or so for Star Tours. I never ever waited that long before.

I haven't really notice much of a difference in the lines. Last year in May yes, but that was around the star tours weekend. But this past trip early this month, I didn't notice a big increase in the line, then again I wasn't really over there that much and didn't even bother riding it when it was a 5 minute wait so I guess it just depends on time of day.

 

[lebeau]

I haven't really notice much of a difference in the lines. Last year in May yes, but that was around the star tours weekend. But this past trip early this month, I didn't notice a big increase in the line, then again I wasn't really over there that much and didn't even bother riding it when it was a 5 minute wait so I guess it just depends on time of day.

I think the primary complaint is that lines for Toy Story didn't get any shorter.

Star Tours 2 may be a great update (I don't know as I have yet to experience it). But it was over due. And the park is still in need of more family-friendly attractions that will take the pressure off Midway Mania.

So, yeah, they updated an attraction that was hopefully out of date. And only because they could split costs with DL. Sounds like the bare minimum to me. I'm not giving them a ton of credit for that.

 

[TalkingHead]

I scrutinize as you put it all the time. It has been part of my work to notice things and I can't shut my mind off (without a lot of alcohol!) just because I am on vacation. Like sitting in the Grand Cali lobby last week and looking at how shabby the furniture was looking (and the PIGS who think that putting their filthy shoes on it is fine because it is Disney -- although I didn't see that behavior when staying down the road at the 4-star Hyatt Regency Huntington Beach or up the road at the 3.5-star Marriott Fullerton) ... and then looking down at the carpeting and seeing it was so worn the threads were coming apart and realizing it should have likely been replaced 3-4 years ago. Or walking into the restroom and seeing ... well, I really don't want to talk about what I saw or Disney's reaction to it.:hurl:

I know you're not going to leave me hanging like that.

My Disney Restroom Blog needs an update and that sounds like a real piece of "insider" information!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I think you hit the nail on the head. For some people, ANYTHING done at Tokyo is wonderful, and if that same thing were done at WDW, it would be pure evil.

Not so much creepy as people would deem it to be fake and unimportant. I personally have no problem with it, but on these forums I hear so much about those dreadful WDW CM's. You know the ones that either don't care or are so over the top MAGICal that it must be fake. If this video was shot in WDW, it would likely be deemed a disgruntled CM who probably got yelled at by their manager and is now purposely over compensating. However, post a video of it from TDL and all of a sudden it is the gold standard in service and Disney quality.

This stereotype that gets brought up often on this site is maddening. It makes no sense what so ever. It's even more frustrating when the people that run the site are the ones making the statements.

If someone talks about how much they love how things are done at DL and TDL, they're obviously a Disney Parks fan, and have spent in some cases tens of thousands of dollars to satisfy that craving. Why would anyone blanketly put down WDW and not the other resorts if there weren't reason and logic behind why they feel the way they do? What would be the point? If things were run as tightly at WDW as the other resorts, why in the world would any of us bash TDO or how WDW is run? Why wouldn't they praise WDW just as they praise DL or TDL?

The negative comparison of WDW to DL and TDL happens because it's warranted. The list of issues at WDW is LOOOOOONG. There are issues at the other resorts as well, and most everyone would agree with that. But it's not like at WDW.

You both sound as if you believe there is a double-standard when it comes to judging WDW. I think the complete opposite... That all resorts are judged with the same measuring stick by most... And WDW comes in way behind.

I don't know why anyone would hint that there be some huge conspiracy to bash WDW and that they don't deserve it. If this were a Universal site and there was some anti WDW sentiment, that would be one thing. But this is a WDW based site, and most of the "doom and gloomers" have hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts over years of membership. Certainly those people aren't on a YEARS long mission to attack WDW for no reason. Is it not possible they just want one of the passions in their life to strive to be better than it is, and more like its counterparts?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Good quote.

While I can get caught up in complaining sometimes, I also remember well the state of the parks of 6-8 years ago. Things had really gone into the crapper compared to today. I do believe some positive progress has been made.

We all need to be mindful that while our unified voices may make a positive difference, we (Disney online fan community) can also appear to be nothing more then unending complainers at times. It dilutes our case when everything gets panned with huge outcry. Nothing can ever be good enough.

A perfect example is Star Tours... brilliant overhaul of an aging attraction. The fan community's reaction was positive, but faded quickly as some said "well it should have been done a long time ago." Attendance didn't raise. Lines didn't increase. That effort should have been evangelized by the online rabid fans...

I think the primary complaint is that lines for Toy Story didn't get any shorter.

Star Tours 2 may be a great update (I don't know as I have yet to experience it). But it was over due. And the park is still in need of more family-friendly attractions that will take the pressure off Midway Mania.

So, yeah, they updated an attraction that was hopefully out of date. And only because they could split costs with DL. Sounds like the bare minimum to me. I'm not giving them a ton of credit for that.

The "problem" with Star Tours is that it's too effecient. The attraction is limiting in that it has a height requirement, causes motion sickness, and has a theme that can actually be devisive.

We don't know the effect it had on attendance for that park, but I'm willing to bet that DHS went back ahead of DAK in 2011. We'll find out in a few months when the report comes out.

In terms of in park crowd distribution, I would guess that it took guests away from Sunset Boulevard more than Toy Story Mania - we could probably reach out to the touringplans.com team and they probably could tell you exactly what happened. I wouldn't be surprised if the enhancements to Star Tours actually succeeded in bringing more guests into the park, and also increased the lines at Toy Story in the process.

I've said it in the past that the best way to solve the Fastpass problem at Toy Story is to add another lower capacity family attraction that also utilizes Fastpass.
Some other smaller things they could do for crowd management in the area are as follows:

• Set up temporary queues each morning in the area by the bathroom/Narnia building. Set up rope/chain switchbacks for people in line to get Fastpasses.
• Add more Fastpass machines and possibly move them further back to this new area as well.
• Use all of the indoor switchbacks at all times, even first thing in the morning. I can't tell you how often I see empty switchbacks inside the building with a line out in the street outside of the building
• Use the old single rider line as a combination Fastpass/Double Rider lane. The cast member at Fastpass collection can send through groups of 2 as well as Fastpass users through this line as needed. If this is too confusing, Fastpass can merge with Standby at this point and the Single Rider lane can become a double rider lane
• Limit guests to one Toy Story Mania Fastpass per day. It won't save much, but if 50 more unique guests can get Toy Story Fastpasses on any given day it will be a step in the right direction

 

[TP2000]

If things were run as tightly at WDW as the other resorts, why in the world would any of us bash TDO or how WDW is run? Why wouldn't they praise WDW just as they praise DL or TDL?

The negative comparison of WDW to DL and TDL happens because it's warranted. The list of issues at WDW is LOOOOOONG. There are issues at the other resorts as well, and most everyone would agree with that. But it's not like at WDW.

Stop making so much sense, you're making my head hurt!

 

[Tom Morrow]

I haven't really notice much of a difference in the lines. Last year in May yes, but that was around the star tours weekend. But this past trip early this month, I didn't notice a big increase in the line, then again I wasn't really over there that much and didn't even bother riding it when it was a 5 minute wait so I guess it just depends on time of day.

One thing to note is that they are always running all six simulators now (except maybe early in the morning or close to closing time). Near the end of it's life, the original version seemed to usually only run four or less of them, and they seemed to have trouble filling even those.

and they would be correct.

Many people ARE stupid, yes, but a Disney CM should at least have enough professionalism to not mock said morons where other guests can hear them.

 

[tahitifan]

Hear hear 20K.

 

[ToTBellHop]

*Use the old single rider line as a combination Fastpass/Double Rider lane. The cast member at Fastpass collection can send through groups of 2 as well as Fastpass users through this line as needed. If this is too confusing, Fastpass can merge with Standby at this point and the Single Rider lane can become a double rider lane

They were doing exactly that when I went earlier this month--line on the right was for groups of 2 (FP or Standby) and line on the left was everyone else (FP and Standby post-merge).

 

[WDWFigment]

This stereotype that gets brought up often on this site is maddening. It makes no sense what so ever. It's even more frustrating when the people that run the site are the ones making the statements.

If someone talks about how much they love how things are done at DL and TDL, they're obviously a Disney Parks fan, and have spent in some cases tens of thousands of dollars to satisfy that craving. Why would anyone blanketly put down WDW and not the other resorts if there weren't reason and logic behind why they feel the way they do? What would be the point? If things were run as tightly at WDW as the other resorts, why in the world would any of us bash TDO or how WDW is run? Why wouldn't they praise WDW just as they praise DL or TDL?

The negative comparison of WDW to DL and TDL happens because it's warranted. The list of issues at WDW is LOOOOOONG. There are issues at the other resorts as well, and most everyone would agree with that. But it's not like at WDW.

You both sound as if you believe there is a double-standard when it comes to judging WDW. I think the complete opposite... That all resorts are judged with the same measuring stick by most... And WDW comes in way behind.

I don't know why anyone would hint that there be some huge conspiracy to bash WDW and that they don't deserve it. If this were a Universal site and there was some anti WDW sentiment, that would be one thing. But this is a WDW based site, and most of the "doom and gloomers" have hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts over years of membership. Certainly those people aren't on a YEARS long mission to attack WDW for no reason. Is it not possible they just want one of the passions in their life to strive to be better than it is, and more like its counterparts?

Dude, you're crazy.

I joined this website in 2006 and started by discussing my love for Walt Disney World, where I should eat for my coming trip, and Disney scrap-booking as part of an elaborate "alibi" for my future later unfavorable comparisons of Walt Disney World to Disneyland (nevermind that I didn't take my first Disneyland trip until 2010; it was all part of my elaborate ruse from the very beginning!).

 

[disney fan 13]

dude, you're crazy.

I joined this website in 2006 and started by discussing my love for walt disney world, where i should eat for my coming trip, and disney scrap-booking as part of an elaborate "alibi" for my future later unfavorable comparisons of walt disney world to disneyland (nevermind that i didn't take my first disneyland trip until 2010; it was all part of my elaborate ruse from the very beginning!).

it's a trap!!