VIDEO and PHOTOS - Morocco's B'net Al Houwariyate debut at Epcot

[boufa]

I think that they could still do it. Having an interactive hands on demo could really be good publicity for smaller firms. I really have a hard time thinking that Disney would have a hard time getting companies to agree to a space with 11+ million visitors a year.
Maybe it should be for start-up and small sized tech companies. The kind that need to get their product in front of people for that initial introduction.

Oh well. Not like it's happening anyway. Back to our discussion on new music in Morocco.

You think... well, that there is the answer to the problem, bring in the bulldozers, lets get it done.

In the end, it doesn't matter what your impression of the market is, it doesn't matter what my impression of the market it, it only matters what Disney's impression of the market is. Do you really think that none of the wonderful stuff we think of on these forums hasn't been thought of my Disney? If there was a cash cow out there, to build something in innoventions, to redo a pavilion, etc, don't you think Disney would be all over it! Do you think that there is 1 person in marketing for epcot, and right now his job is to only worry about the frozen ride?!?!?

If they could line up 4 or 5 tech companies to do a tech worlds fair, I would bet we would see walls up any minute. Do you really think they are purposely sitting on those empty buildings. I an 100% certain that someone for Disney is out looking for ideas and sponsors for those buildings, as well as the pavilions. It is so easy behind out keyboards, to re imagine the parks, and its admittedly fun, but the reality isn't nearly so easy.

 

[Gabe1]

Heaven forfend that acts which are popular and bring guests back time after time might actually SHARE in the success. Off Kilter and MSS are in a different category than the fanbois who clogged the AC, In the former case people paid for admission.

The AC with the lack of a cover charge the fanbois hanging out and NOT buying drinks was simple mismanagement on WDW's part.

The situation with OK and MSS is "Today's Disney" is too greedy to want to pay entertainers any more than minimum wage. Even though those shows drove attendance by PAYING CUSTOMERS. This cost cutting dynamic you even see at ESPN sacking popular but expensive hosts and replacing them with nobodies. You are seeing the acts of a company which believes itself invincible that people watch ESPN because its ESPN not that they watch ESPN because of the content it provides. And that guests visit WDW because it's WDW, Not because guests visit WDW because of the quality of experience WDW provided in the past.

When this type of corporate behavior sets in a crash is definitely in the future, Will the individual businesses go away like WDW or ESPN and PIXAR, No they will go to a new owner who will hopefully take better care of them
but I think TWDC as a corporate entity is riding for a hard fall.

I understand what you are saying, I don't agree with your apple and oranges analogy though. Off Kilter, MSS had their regulars and it wasn't just a few that would take up residence at those venues. Indeed most of them had annual passes however it is good management to avoid clogging up the Canadian Pavilion with guests that just park it there for hours on end. You clearly saw it happen with MSS too, they'd be in their regular spots long before they went on stage. I saw it often at the FQ with Elliot. These groups are really good and I genuinely enjoyed them but I can appreciate what Disney is doing and trying to establish some sound management practices.

While I'd always listen to Off Kilter at least once a trip I'd never park it there for hours let alone repeatedly. While not overly impressed with the LumberJacks they are popular with the average guest and there is usually a crowd watching and then the crowd disperses. The original intent of the entertainment attractions. There are so many musical groups out there that are willing to take a year contract with Disney there is no need for Disney to share the pot of money with them, they are a publically traded entity that always has it eye on keeping costs lower not escalating them or creating more difficult contract negotiations for themselves and annoying the fans. regulars that live in Florida on a whole stop going to Disney, they'll find a new venue to congregate at. It isn't like Stopping the long term contracts it is obvious the overwhelming majority of guests just don't care. Bring down any of the Mountains or Pirate, the average guest is upset, most won't notice MSS is gone. While yes the uber fans of these groups have paid to enter unlike Elliot's prior show, it is also some of the reasoning of reworking the annual passes especially for the Florida Residents. Disney knows what parks they are entering, time and how frequently. It has also been the same pattern with Food and Wine congestion and being over served problems. And that isn't always a Disney revenue raiser for those particular guests, many are arriving half way to tipsy.

I am sad to see some of my favorite entertainers go from Disney however I do understand Disney's business model. They are regrouping and getting their expenses and contract obligations under control for their entertainment and that is only going to upset a tiny minority of guests that go through the turnstiles daily and Disney will likely see those guests return no matter how unpopular the decision is to these uber fans. In Northern IL there is a wildly popular band called American English that hits festivals and other special events all year long. They are a great mock Beatles band. They'd slip right in and replace what is in the World Showcase now and another equally great band would be there to take their place a year from now.

 

[sshindel]

You think... well, that there is the answer to the problem, bring in the bulldozers, lets get it done.

In the end, it doesn't matter what your impression of the market is, it doesn't matter what my impression of the market it, it only matters what Disney's impression of the market is. Do you really think that none of the wonderful stuff we think of on these forums hasn't been thought of my Disney? If there was a cash cow out there, to build something in innoventions, to redo a pavilion, etc, don't you think Disney would be all over it! Do you think that there is 1 person in marketing for epcot, and right now his job is to only worry about the frozen ride?!?!?

If they could line up 4 or 5 tech companies to do a tech worlds fair, I would bet we would see walls up any minute. Do you really think they are purposely sitting on those empty buildings. I an 100% certain that someone for Disney is out looking for ideas and sponsors for those buildings, as well as the pavilions. It is so easy behind out keyboards, to re imagine the parks, and its admittedly fun, but the reality isn't nearly so easy.

That is assuming that doing something with Epcot, or Innoventions is a priority for them, which it is not.
You are right, there are likely 1000 ways they could do something with Innoventions that they are not doing, but it's not necessarily because there is no market, it's because they are not looking to invest in Innoventions right now, or Future World. That is why nothing is being done, not because there is no market, not because there are no better ideas.
They don't think they need to invest in Epcot because their festivals keep drawing people and the parks keep making money.

 

[ford91exploder]

I understand what you are saying, I don't agree with your apple and oranges analogy though. Off Kilter, MSS had their regulars and it wasn't just a few that would take up residence at those venues. Indeed most of them had annual passes however it is good management to avoid clogging up the Canadian Pavilion with guests that just park it there for hours on end. You clearly saw it happen with MSS too, they'd be in their regular spots long before they went on stage. I saw it often at the FQ with Elliot. These groups are really good and I genuinely enjoyed them but I can appreciate what Disney is doing and trying to establish some sound management practices.

While I'd always listen to Off Kilter at least once a trip I'd never park it there for hours let alone repeatedly. While not overly impressed with the LumberJacks they are popular with the average guest and there is usually a crowd watching and then the crowd disperses. The original intent of the entertainment attractions. There are so many musical groups out there that are willing to take a year contract with Disney there is no need for Disney to share the pot of money with them, they are a publically traded entity that always has it eye on keeping costs lower not escalating them or creating more difficult contract negotiations for themselves and annoying the fans. regulars that live in Florida on a whole stop going to Disney, they'll find a new venue to congregate at. It isn't like Stopping the long term contracts it is obvious the overwhelming majority of guests just don't care. Bring down any of the Mountains or Pirate, the average guest is upset, most won't notice MSS is gone. While yes the uber fans of these groups have paid to enter unlike Elliot's prior show, it is also some of the reasoning of reworking the annual passes especially for the Florida Residents. Disney knows what parks they are entering, time and how frequently. It has also been the same pattern with Food and Wine congestion and being over served problems. And that isn't always a Disney revenue raiser for those particular guests, many are arriving half way to tipsy.

I am sad to see some of my favorite entertainers go from Disney however I do understand Disney's business model. They are regrouping and getting their expenses and contract obligations under control for their entertainment and that is only going to upset a tiny minority of guests that go through the turnstiles daily and Disney will likely see those guests return no matter how unpopular the decision is to these uber fans. In Northern IL there is a wildly popular band called American English that hits festivals and other special events all year long. They are a great mock Beatles band. They'd slip right in and replace what is in the World Showcase now and another equally great band would be there to take their place a year from now.

I see what you are saying and it's true. Disney COULD rotate great bands through the parks and all for short runs and for me that would be OK because that would mean there is always something fresh as musical entertainment. That being said I always liked the concept of DHS having a 'house band' which was reliably there at closing time. I'd LIKE to have a house band like MSS as well as acts which are there for short runs.

The reality is Disney keeps cutting the quality of the entertainment offerings and we are offered less and less for a price which is rising asymptotically. Disney figures the 'One and Done' crowd will never NOTICE the difference which is true.

It's only those of us who are repeat visitors who actually notice that the entertainers are 'mailing it in' so to speak.

Come the next downturn in travel WDW will be hit hard because they have alienated the regulars many of whom have dropped their WDW AP in favor of a UNI AP.

 

[ford91exploder]

You think... well, that there is the answer to the problem, bring in the bulldozers, lets get it done.

In the end, it doesn't matter what your impression of the market is, it doesn't matter what my impression of the market it, it only matters what Disney's impression of the market is. Do you really think that none of the wonderful stuff we think of on these forums hasn't been thought of my Disney? If there was a cash cow out there, to build something in innoventions, to redo a pavilion, etc, don't you think Disney would be all over it! Do you think that there is 1 person in marketing for epcot, and right now his job is to only worry about the frozen ride?!?!?

If they could line up 4 or 5 tech companies to do a tech worlds fair, I would bet we would see walls up any minute. Do you really think they are purposely sitting on those empty buildings. I an 100% certain that someone for Disney is out looking for ideas and sponsors for those buildings, as well as the pavilions. It is so easy behind out keyboards, to re imagine the parks, and its admittedly fun, but the reality isn't nearly so easy.

The problem really stems from the lack of creativity in the executive suite in Burbank, Iger's problem and why Eisner was working on getting rid of him at the end was Iger had no inherent creativity and a contempt for the creative process which in the end is what drives tech ie creativity.

Disney's current problems are papered over by the financial engineering which is stripmining investments made in the Eisner era but they are putting nothing in the tank for the NEXT generation of management.

 

[sshindel]

The problem really stems from the lack of creativity in the executive suite in Burbank, Iger's problem and why Eisner was working on getting rid of him at the end was Iger had no inherent creativity and a contempt for the creative process which in the end is what drives tech ie creativity.

Disney's current problems are papered over by the financial engineering which is stripmining investments made in the Eisner era but they are putting nothing in the tank for the NEXT generation of management.

I tend to think that it's more of a aspect of "where should I invest the small amount that I want to invest" at the moment. Prior updates to Epcot have been dreadful, and seemingly they are continuing that. Looking at it from a numbers perspective though, Epcot didn't "need" major work, because it still brings people in, and people spend stupid amounts of money in the park as it is. People pay theme park ticket prices to go into that park for the opportunity to pay theme park prices to eat and drink all day. Disney had no compelling reason to invest in Epcot (the only reason they dropped Frozen in there was to milk at the teat of that cash cow), so they are not.
Animal Kingdom needed (and got) investment, Hollywood Studios needed (and got) investment.
Either Epcot is finally going turn a corner and start dipping in attendance and/or guest spending, or someone with a little actual vision is going to come in and realize that Epcot was once more than a theme park and deserves to be invested in.
I'd bet the first of those well before I bet the second.

 

[ford91exploder]

I tend to think that it's more of a aspect of "where should I invest the small amount that I want to invest" at the moment. Prior updates to Epcot have been dreadful, and seemingly they are continuing that. Looking at it from a numbers perspective though, Epcot didn't "need" major work, because it still brings people in, and people spend stupid amounts of money in the park as it is. People pay theme park ticket prices to go into that park for the opportunity to pay theme park prices to eat and drink all day. Disney had no compelling reason to invest in Epcot (the only reason they dropped Frozen in there was to milk at the teat of that cash cow), so they are not.
Animal Kingdom needed (and got) investment, Hollywood Studios needed (and got) investment.
Either Epcot is finally going turn a corner and start dipping in attendance and/or guest spending, or someone with a little actual vision is going to come in and realize that Epcot was once more than a theme park and deserves to be invested in.
I'd bet the first of those well before I bet the second.

Sadly I agree with your assessment,

For a long time EPCOT was my favorite park but it;s been allowed to rot because of the Alcodollars that F&W and now F&G generate - F&G used to be my favorite festival because it gave DW and I ideas on what we could do in our own garden, ie plantings, watering tech composting tech (it's come a long way from kitchen scraps on a pile with some worms).

Now it's the spring edition of the fall boozefest and not worth a special trip to see it.

Once again a lack of creativity writ large, If EPCOT was exciting to visit it could make MORE than MK because even now it's capacity is what 150K with reasonable crowds as opposed to the 50K reasonable 75K Nuts to Butts limit for MK.

 

[Gabe1]

Come the next downturn in travel WDW will be hit hard because they have alienated the regulars many of whom have dropped their WDW AP in favor of a UNI AP.[/QUOTE]

Actually the AP sales are up so if a few don't renew the savings far exceed the expenses and managerial problems. I've seen many of our members here get upset, threaten to be done with Disney, say they will not renew. Few in reality do for those reasons anyhow. Me, I gave up annual pass x 4 when I had two kids in college. Had nothing to do with my frustrations with various aspects of Disney more it was cost prohibitive.

I have found many FL residents or Snow Birds to have APs to Uni, Disney and SeaWorld. If they have kids or grandkids even LegoLand. I think the real issue for Disney is keeping guests on their property in the manner they did a decade ago. The Magical Express, EMH's or Entertainers were not keeping guest only on Disney Property and IMO neither will Disney Springs. While beautiful and a needed reboot it is littered with pretty pricey places which will also be cost prohibitive to so many families let alone a chunk of FL AP holders, though you might find the regulars picking a new favorite restaurant lounge bar stool and take up residence there. Earl on the other hand still even with all the new dining venues has a line out the door frequently from lunch till closing. An $8 bad slider from the food truck and sitting on a wall misses the mark for overflow business heading to Earl.

 

[ford91exploder]

Come the next downturn in travel WDW will be hit hard because they have alienated the regulars many of whom have dropped their WDW AP in favor of a UNI AP.

Actually the AP sales are up so if a few don't renew the savings far exceed the expenses and managerial problems. I've seen many of our members here get upset, threaten to be done with Disney, say they will not renew. Few in reality do for those reasons anyhow. Me, I gave up annual pass x 4 when I had two kids in college. Had nothing to do with my frustrations with various aspects of Disney more it was cost prohibitive.

I have found many FL residents or Snow Birds to have APs to Uni, Disney and SeaWorld. If they have kids or grandkids even LegoLand. I think the real issue for Disney is keeping guests on their property in the manner they did a decade ago. The Magical Express, EMH's or Entertainers were not keeping guest only on Disney Property and IMO neither will Disney Springs. While beautiful and a needed reboot it is littered with pretty pricey places which will also be cost prohibitive to so many families let alone a chunk of FL AP holders, though you might find the regulars picking a new favorite restaurant lounge bar stool and take up residence there. Earl on the other hand still even with all the new dining venues has a line out the door frequently from lunch till closing. An $8 bad slider from the food truck and sitting on a wall misses the mark for overflow business heading to Earl.[/QUOTE]

The thing is with the recent price increases a lot of WDW passholders are deciding not to renew the TIW program going way up in price and adding blackout dates has been the final straw for a lot of passholders that I know personally. They feel as do I that an WDW AP no longer is a good VALUE.

Earl of Sandwich is simply a good VALUE for most people a tasty filling sandwich for less than the nasty slider from Disney's fake food trucks. There is a Earl at Boston Logan and if I'm flying from there I will schedule my flight so I can get a sandwich from there.

As to the pricy restaurants at the springs using Morimoto's as an example why should I spend more there than I would at Nobu (Chef Morimoto's flagship restaurant) in NYC plus in the NYC establishment there is the chance that my meal will be prepared by Morimoto himself or one of his students. As compared to at DS where it will be prepared by some random culinary school graduate making 15 bucks an hour

 

[jakeman]

As to the pricy restaurants at the springs using Morimoto's as an example why should I spend more there than I would at Nobu (Chef Morimoto's flagship restaurant) in NYC plus in the NYC establishment there is the chance that my meal will be prepared by Morimoto himself or one of his students. As compared to at DS where it will be prepared by some random culinary school graduate making 15 bucks an hour

Might want to fact check that. Nobu is run by Nobu Matsuhisa.

Ha! Just kidding...we know you don't fact check anything.

 

[Baltar]

There was a new band playing in Morocco today. Times guide even said "new' next to their name. For the 5 minutes I heard, I liked it. More up tempo.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Yep! More details right here
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ots-morocco-pavilion-for-limited-time.906634/

Pretty darn groovy if you ask me. I like the fusion kind of thing and the upbeat tempo is catchy. I will be checking them out when I am down next. Marie

 

[Gabe1]

Actually the AP sales are up so if a few don't renew the savings far exceed the expenses and managerial problems. I've seen many of our members here get upset, threaten to be done with Disney, say they will not renew. Few in reality do for those reasons anyhow. Me, I gave up annual pass x 4 when I had two kids in college. Had nothing to do with my frustrations with various aspects of Disney more it was cost prohibitive.

I have found many FL residents or Snow Birds to have APs to Uni, Disney and SeaWorld. If they have kids or grandkids even LegoLand. I think the real issue for Disney is keeping guests on their property in the manner they did a decade ago. The Magical Express, EMH's or Entertainers were not keeping guest only on Disney Property and IMO neither will Disney Springs. While beautiful and a needed reboot it is littered with pretty pricey places which will also be cost prohibitive to so many families let alone a chunk of FL AP holders, though you might find the regulars picking a new favorite restaurant lounge bar stool and take up residence there. Earl on the other hand still even with all the new dining venues has a line out the door frequently from lunch till closing. An $8 bad slider from the food truck and sitting on a wall misses the mark for overflow business heading to Earl.

The thing is with the recent price increases a lot of WDW passholders are deciding not to renew the TIW program going way up in price and adding blackout dates has been the final straw for a lot of passholders that I know personally. They feel as do I that an WDW AP no longer is a good VALUE.

Earl of Sandwich is simply a good VALUE for most people a tasty filling sandwich for less than the nasty slider from Disney's fake food trucks. There is a Earl at Boston Logan and if I'm flying from there I will schedule my flight so I can get a sandwich from there.

As to the pricy restaurants at the springs using Morimoto's as an example why should I spend more there than I would at Nobu (Chef Morimoto's flagship restaurant) in NYC plus in the NYC establishment there is the chance that my meal will be prepared by Morimoto himself or one of his students. As compared to at DS where it will be prepared by some random culinary school graduate making 15 bucks an hour[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how you pulled this off but you managed to affix you post in a quote with my member name affixed to it:
Gabe1 said: ↑
Come the next downturn in travel WDW will be hit hard because they have alienated the regulars many of whom have dropped their WDW AP in favor of a UNI AP.

Gabe1 so didn't post this

Then you have managed to repost my post as yours.

Something has gone very very wrong with your post.

 

[ford91exploder]

The thing is with the recent price increases a lot of WDW passholders are deciding not to renew the TIW program going way up in price and adding blackout dates has been the final straw for a lot of passholders that I know personally. They feel as do I that an WDW AP no longer is a good VALUE.

Earl of Sandwich is simply a good VALUE for most people a tasty filling sandwich for less than the nasty slider from Disney's fake food trucks. There is a Earl at Boston Logan and if I'm flying from there I will schedule my flight so I can get a sandwich from there.

As to the pricy restaurants at the springs using Morimoto's as an example why should I spend more there than I would at Nobu (Chef Morimoto's flagship restaurant) in NYC plus in the NYC establishment there is the chance that my meal will be prepared by Morimoto himself or one of his students. As compared to at DS where it will be prepared by some random culinary school graduate making 15 bucks an hour

I'm not sure how you pulled this off but you managed to affix you post in a quote with my member name affixed to it:
Gabe1 said: ↑
Come the next downturn in travel WDW will be hit hard because they have alienated the regulars many of whom have dropped their WDW AP in favor of a UNI AP.

Gabe1 so didn't post this

Then you have managed to repost my post as yours.

Something has gone very very wrong with your post.[/QUOTE]

No idea how that happened I was using a tablet at the time