Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[sullyinMT]

Oh I never doubt who the price champion is...just saying little brother isn’t that literal

It does get blown out of proportion. People tend to look at the extremes (Portofino vs Riviera, for example). At the value, and even moderate end, the gap isn't the chasm it's made out to be. There are very stark differences at the upper end, though.

 

[UNCgolf]

FWIW Universal did have “free” Express Pass as part of park admission when they first rolled it out. Worked just like traditional FP. This was not used for long though, only a year or two IIRC before going to a paid model

Ah, did not know that!

I think the fact it only existed for a year or two still makes it significantly different from Disney, who has been offering some sort of free Fast Pass for over 20 years now.

 

[Jon81uk]

No...but you spent 15+ minutes covering pathways in parks that have 3-5 or so miles of path

MK, EPCOT, DAKL

30 minutes is a sham. It’s enough to get to one thing...which probably means the line to 1 thing. In an hour you could “fast hop” 3-4 lesser rides...cover a land. In 3 hours you could enjoy yourself. This also cost them not a penny of additional staff/operations...they can just put the early staff where they know they’ll be needed and then fan them back to the less crowded places slowly. It likely saves them money.

Only people at beach club are getting to ratatouille in under 20 minutes

But they may open the gates at 8.15, ready for rides to open at 8.30 so the 15 minutes of walking may well be moot.

Or if they open the gates at 8.30 for resort guests then you assume they open the gate at 9.00 for day guests so they also have 15 minutes to walk to reach the rides, so you still get the 30 minute exclusive time.

However I rarely was up and about early enough and personally enjoyed evening hours much more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But they may open the gates at 8.15, ready for rides to open at 8.30 so the 15 minutes of walking may well be moot.

Or if they open the gates at 8.30 for resort guests then you assume they open the gate at 9.00 for day guests so they also have 15 minutes to walk to reach the rides, so you still get the 30 minute exclusive time.

However I rarely was up and about early enough and personally enjoyed evening hours much more.

I’m old and lazy (and practical)...trying to “guess the opening minute” to get to slinky dash has little interest to me. The way it’s being setup...that’s gonna be a daily thing.

Or better yet: which park may be the soft spot? The daily lottery. Entering at 8:35 may get you a 10 minute wait for FOP on Tuesday...but it may be 40 on Thursday.

Yippee! What fun!


Problem is I’m representative of the majority by far. This is as close to the elimination of EMH they can get under the circumstances. There are many mysteries in life...I don’t know how howler monkeys jump 70 feet in full layout and are able to grab a branch/slow their inertia enough to stay up??

Disney ops motives are not one of the great mysteries to me.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

FWIW Universal did have “free” Express Pass as part of park admission when they first rolled it out. Worked just like traditional FP. This was not used for long though, only a year or two IIRC before going to a paid model

Universal prices it to limit it. That’s the pricepoint.

Disney can’t really do that and that’s not how they operate. Each “program” is to Indoctrinate everyone and make it standard...look at that horrific dining plan? It’s worked like a charm.

A super expensive fastpass won’t provide crowd control...unless is forces big attendance drops. Then you have another problem.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Ah, did not know that!

I think the fact it only existed for a year or two still makes it significantly different from Disney, who has been offering some sort of free Fast Pass for over 20 years now.

Another odd thing when it was free - it gave you a choice of return times (usually 3)

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

This thread makes my head spin with the arguments over whether FP+ increases or decreases wait times. Intuitively, I’d think that it’s neither. If you have 10,000 people in the park, it doesn’t matter if they are in a standby line or fastpass line. You still have 10,000 people in line. The net effect across the whole park should be unchanged.

If anything, I’d expect it to decrease wait times as I know if I had a fast pass coming up in 10 minutes that I would just wait on a bench for that ride window to open up. Without fastpass, now I’m getting in a standby line and adding to the line total because I have no reason to wait to get in line.

 

[pdude81]

Fastpass helps skew the reality of wait times so that if they reduce throughput by running trains slower or reducing staff, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. If not for people at Touring Plans counting people walking into lines, we'd have no clue what was happening.

And this is coming from someone who likes FP+

 

[havoc315]

That's kind of my point (and also exactly what I said regarding Universal's deluxe hotels).

It's different for Disney, because Disney has offered FastPasses for free and guests are used to having that as an option. Universal only had a free offering for a pretty short period of time; not long enough for people to expect it as part of their vacation. If FastPasses go away entirely and the paid upcharge is the only option, there are going to be a lot of guests who want it because they've become too used to having FastPasses. If you have to spend $250 a night to stay at a value with no express pass offering, or could stay elsewhere for $300 a night including both your accommodations and an express pass, I think a lot of people would go for #2.

However, and it's a big however, that will depend on how the system works. If you have two adults and two kids, and you have to pay for each individually, that's a gigantic expense increase and you can throw what I just said out of the window. At Universal everyone in the room gets one (I think -- I know we both received one without having to pay anything extra, but it could be limited to two per room or something like that), but I don't know how they price it out for families otherwise. There's obviously a huge difference between paying $150-200 for your whole family per night and paying $150-200 for each individual.

At Universal, everyone in the room gets the pass (just the older deluxe hotels). Notably, they have never included it in a benefit with any of their newer hotels -- which are sometimes nicer than the old hotels. I believe it may be part of a contract with the older hotels. And the benefit is definitely built into the pricing.

Now, assume Disney did follow the Uni model:
Uni has a "limited" Express Pass that starts at $60 per person per day. An unlimited starts at $90 per day. During peak periods, it's much higher. During peak periods, it goes at high as $150 per day.

Now, take a Disney family of 4: If they are the type of family that stays at a value resort, they aren't the type that are going to buy an Express Pass add on, whether they stay onsite or off-site.
If a value on-site room is $200.... and they can stay off-site for $100..
Adding between $240 and $600 per day for express pass becomes a forbidding expense, whether they stay off-site or on-site. Such a family might now be incentivized to stay on-site -- to at least get the 30 minute early entry, since they would never pay $240-$600 per day for express passes!

Now, look at a deluxe guest who often pays $500-$700 per night for an on-site room. They would be even more incentivized to stay on-site. Sure, they can get a deluxe quality room off-site for $200-$300... but paying an extra $200 to $400 could be considered a "bargain" to get the express passes.

Returning to the value guest.....
Which would be better:
Offsite with express passes for a family of 4, for $500 per night.. (and no early entry)..
Or stay onsite in a value, family of 4, $200.. and get early entry.

While some families would pick the first option, I suspect plenty would still pick the on-site option. It would also really encourage families to upgrade to deluxe, if the EP was included with deluxe. (I can stay on-site, Deluxe, get EP, for the same price as staying in a flea bag off property with EP)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This thread makes my head spin with the arguments over whether FP+ increases or decreases wait times. Intuitively, I’d think that it’s neither. If you have 10,000 people in the park, it doesn’t matter if they are in a standby line or fastpass line. You still have 10,000 people in line. The net effect across the whole park should be unchanged.

If anything, I’d expect it to decrease wait times as I know if I had a fast pass coming up in 10 minutes that I would just wait on a bench for that ride window to open up. Without fastpass, now I’m getting in a standby line and adding to the line total because I have no reason to wait to get in line.

I totally get the “fatigue” in this. It’s been 10/20 years of constant E-debate.

I was a huge fan of legacy...and it’s not just because I saw it’s effect in the early days. It was equal...and it rewarded minimal effort for those willing to do it.

But 2.0 is a different animal. The difference is when they started filling most all slots on most rides with prebooks. The standby line became non-functional. They sit for 10 minutes without taking anyone. Short lines become 90 minute waits.

That’s a fail. It’s contrary to the entire point of fastpass. That is the exact opposite. Locked in a stagnant line with no cash registers in reach.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Universal includes it for anyone staying at the Royal Pacific, Hard Rock, or Portofino Bay, though.

And those hotels are much cheaper than the Disney deluxe hotels -- I stayed at Royal Pacific for almost half the price of what it would cost to stay at the Polynesian. I think Disney would have to include it for all three resort types or run the risk of actually driving people off-site. Why pay $200+ a night for an All-Star and then have to pay $150-200 on top of it for the express pass? You could just stay off-site for half the price and use the savings to pay for the pass, because if some sort of all day FP for all rides was an option the 30 minutes of extra time in the morning would be more or less irrelevant.

I don't think Disney with offer a free with your stay maxpass that works like express pay anyway. But if they did it would be just a few of the most expensive hotels and only on the hotel side not DVC IMHO. Paid max pass would price like Universal . But I think it is also possible they will offer of 1 or 2 free fast passes for on all onsite and then they will eliminate the function of getting more throughout the day and you will pay for more. They have to come up with the fast inventory to sell somehow. Just some possible theories .

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When I stayed there 4 years ago it was almost half the price of the Polynesian (I checked out of curiosity), and the Royal Pacific is both nicer and more convenient than the Polynesian. I'm sure it's not always that way and prices have definitely increased in those four years (although Disney prices have increased too), but we paid around $350 a night at the Royal Pacific for a regular room and a regular room at the Polynesian for the same dates was somewhere between $550-600. Both were discounted off rack rates.

Wow...I just did an apples to apples comparison for the first date I could find...mid April.

And comparing the seasonal at Royal pacific to the standard “kohl’s discount” at poly ended up with tax

$438
To
$588

That’s much larger than I thought

How is the rack on a standard at poly $744 to start?!?

Customers are really “new money” stupid these days.

 

[Jon81uk]

I’m old and lazy (and practical)...trying to “guess the opening minute” to get to slinky dash has little interest to me. The way it’s being setup...that’s gonna be a daily thing.

I’m not sure what you mean by this? It is currently known that the park normally opens shortly before the advertised opening time, whether that’s the EMH time or the regular hours.
but there is no need to guess anything. Just turn up in advance of 8.30 and if the gates open a bit before that’s a bonus And as you said, then gives you time to walk to attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

At Universal, everyone in the room gets the pass (just the older deluxe hotels). Notably, they have never included it in a benefit with any of their newer hotels -- which are sometimes nicer than the old hotels. I believe it may be part of a contract with the older hotels. And the benefit is definitely built into the pricing.

Now, assume Disney did follow the Uni model:
Uni has a "limited" Express Pass that starts at $60 per person per day. An unlimited starts at $90 per day. During peak periods, it's much higher. During peak periods, it goes at high as $150 per day.

Now, take a Disney family of 4: If they are the type of family that stays at a value resort, they aren't the type that are going to buy an Express Pass add on, whether they stay onsite or off-site.
If a value on-site room is $200.... and they can stay off-site for $100..
Adding between $240 and $600 per day for express pass becomes a forbidding expense, whether they stay off-site or on-site. Such a family might now be incentivized to stay on-site -- to at least get the 30 minute early entry, since they would never pay $240-$600 per day for express passes!

Now, look at a deluxe guest who often pays $500-$700 per night for an on-site room. They would be even more incentivized to stay on-site. Sure, they can get a deluxe quality room off-site for $200-$300... but paying an extra $200 to $400 could be considered a "bargain" to get the express passes.

Returning to the value guest.....
Which would be better:
Offsite with express passes for a family of 4, for $500 per night.. (and no early entry)..
Or stay onsite in a value, family of 4, $200.. and get early entry.

While some families would pick the first option, I suspect plenty would still pick the on-site option. It would also really encourage families to upgrade to deluxe, if the EP was included with deluxe. (I can stay on-site, Deluxe, get EP, for the same price as staying in a flea bag off property with EP)

I think the net effect - and I sure am
Annoying with my hunches (see Disney Star Wars ) - is the scenario you provide scares a lot of people away from Disney altogether.

I believe (hunch) also that you’re way overemphasizing the 30 minutes...but we will soon find out for sure.

 

[Purduevian]

I think the net effect - and I sure am
Annoying with my hunches (see Disney Star Wars ) - is the scenario you provide scares a lot of people away from Disney altogether.

I believe (hunch) also that you’re way overemphasizing the 30 minutes...but we will soon find out for sure.

Depends how those 30 minutes are used. At MK if I can hit both BTMRR and Splash OR Pan and 7D in the first 45 mins it is a multi hour advantage. If instead I choose to get a starbucks, take pics in front of the castle then hop in line at the TTA, not worth much at all.

 

[JakeAZ]

During peak periods, it goes at high as $150 per day.

Right now, unlimited EP is over $300pp for Spring Break dates

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m not sure what you mean by this? It is currently known that the park normally opens shortly before the advertised opening time, whether that’s the EMH time or the regular hours.
but there is no need to guess anything. Just turn up in advance of 8.30 and if the gates open a bit before that’s a bonus And as you said, then gives you time to walk to one attraction.

Fixed that for you.

And soft openings would throw it all out of whack. If they do soft...it highly benefits the zealots. And if word gets out...they breed more zealots. And if they don’t do soft...then you may get more of a Black Friday crowd. Your one shot to get the big one...as it stands...since they prebook trained all the frequenters, the bloggers, the guides, the travel agents, etc.

Seems like a mess. But I’ve been wrong before.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Depends how those 30 minutes are used. At MK if I can hit both BTMRR and Splash OR Pan and 7D in the first 45 mins it is a multi hour advantage. If instead I choose to get a starbucks, take pics in front of the castle then hop in line at the TTA, not worth much at all.

Nearly impossible unless you walk on. Two of those rides take about 15-20 minutes to get in, on and off and out even if you are the only person in the line.

 

[nickys]

Wow...I just did an apples to apples comparison for the first date I could find...mid April.

And comparing the seasonal at Royal pacific to the standard “kohl’s discount” at poly ended up with tax

$438
To
$588

That’s much larger than I thought

How is the rack on a standard at poly $744 to start?!?

Customers are really “new money” stupid these days.

Remember that’s DVC cash room. The rack rates for those are nearly always higher than a regular room. Not saying it’s reasonable, that’s insane for a studio.

 

[UNCgolf]

At Universal, everyone in the room gets the pass (just the older deluxe hotels). Notably, they have never included it in a benefit with any of their newer hotels -- which are sometimes nicer than the old hotels. I believe it may be part of a contract with the older hotels. And the benefit is definitely built into the pricing.

Now, assume Disney did follow the Uni model:
Uni has a "limited" Express Pass that starts at $60 per person per day. An unlimited starts at $90 per day. During peak periods, it's much higher. During peak periods, it goes at high as $150 per day.

Now, take a Disney family of 4: If they are the type of family that stays at a value resort, they aren't the type that are going to buy an Express Pass add on, whether they stay onsite or off-site.
If a value on-site room is $200.... and they can stay off-site for $100..
Adding between $240 and $600 per day for express pass becomes a forbidding expense, whether they stay off-site or on-site. Such a family might now be incentivized to stay on-site -- to at least get the 30 minute early entry, since they would never pay $240-$600 per day for express passes!

Now, look at a deluxe guest who often pays $500-$700 per night for an on-site room. They would be even more incentivized to stay on-site. Sure, they can get a deluxe quality room off-site for $200-$300... but paying an extra $200 to $400 could be considered a "bargain" to get the express passes.

Returning to the value guest.....
Which would be better:
Offsite with express passes for a family of 4, for $500 per night.. (and no early entry)..
Or stay onsite in a value, family of 4, $200.. and get early entry.

While some families would pick the first option, I suspect plenty would still pick the on-site option. It would also really encourage families to upgrade to deluxe, if the EP was included with deluxe. (I can stay on-site, Deluxe, get EP, for the same price as staying in a flea bag off property with EP)

I agree with you, but you basically just repeated exactly what I said in my comment with regards to pricing -- see my last paragraph. I kind of doubt it will be the same as Universal's system anyways.

I disagree with you on the express pass being built into the room price for the Universal deluxe hotels, though. You'd think that would be the case, but if so, they should be charging at least $100 more per night. The Universal deluxes are a much much better value than the majority of Disney deluxes at this point, and they would be even if Express Pass wasn't included because they're so much cheaper.