Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Genie was announced as an idea before it was ever fully fleshed out internally. Would be shocked if it still comes to fruition any more than Hyperion Wharf or the Main Street theater.

...I just poured a little out for Hyperion wharf.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Total attractions per guest per hour increases because more people are riding lower-demand rides than they otherwise would have. The park is not more crowded, it is equally crowded.

Attractions per guest per hour does not increase because capacity has stagnated while attendance has increased. The Magic Kingdom, the world’s most visited theme park, has shuttered and underused attraction, retail and dining space. In the case of dining, which directly generates revenue, it has less capacity today than 30 years ago.

Crowding is relative. 10 people in a hotel room is crowded but 10 people in a gymnasium is not crowded. FastPass moves people out of queues, supposed to be to a store or restaurant, but also other attractions and at the very least the walkways.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

FastPass moves people out of queues, supposed to be to a store or restaurant, but also other attractions and at the very least the walkways.

FastPass moves people out of queues and into different queues.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Who waits an hour for a rope drop ride?

Most Everyone in the dash to flight of passage or dinky dog. There’s only one “front of the line”...and sometimes they don’t bother to open the whole thing.

Total attractions per guest per hour increases because more people are riding lower-demand rides than they otherwise would have. The park is not more crowded, it is equally crowded.

Wdw attendance (1999): 42,500,000
Wdw attendance (2018): 58,000,000

 

[IMDREW]

Well I am very nervous :/

 

[havoc315]

Fastpass reduced the standby lines

?? I don't agree with this statement at all. If someone cuts you in line, it makes you wait longer: Thereby, fastpass always made standby lines longer.
The effect was minimal when FP was minimally used... as more people used FP, and as more capacity was devoted to FP, it affects the standby lines more and more.

Again -- If a ride has a capacity of 1000 people per hour, and you give out 900 fastpasses per hour, it's going to have a tremendous impact on the standby line. (If you have a 1000 standby line, with no fastpasses-- everyone rides in 1 hour. But if you have a 1,000 person line, and have given out 900 FPs per hour, then it will take 10 hours to get through the 1,000 person standby line).

If you only give out 100 FPs per hour, you have a much smaller effect on the standby line.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

?? I don't agree with this statement at all. If someone cuts you in line, it makes you wait longer: Thereby, fastpass always made standby lines longer.
The effect was minimal when FP was minimally used... as more people used FP, and as more capacity was devoted to FP, it affects the standby lines more and more.

Again -- If a ride has a capacity of 1000 people per hour, and you give out 900 fastpasses per hour, it's going to have a tremendous impact on the standby line. (If you have a 1000 standby line, with no fastpasses-- everyone rides in 1 hour. But if you have a 1,000 person line, and have given out 900 FPs per hour, then it will take 10 hours to get through the 1,000 person standby line).

If you only give out 100 FPs per hour, you have a much smaller effect on the standby line.

Fastpass 1.0 reduced the standby times because it spread the inherent demand for E-tickets throughout the day. Instead of several “rush” periods at certain times of the day, it pushed a percentage of the crunch out across the day. It also trained people not to wait in the Long lines because you had a better option.

I can remember waiting in a 2.5 hour line for splash...and didn’t not recall seeing it more than 1.5 even on the most busy days during fastpass 1.0.

Now fastpass+ is a different animal. Every slot filled from the computer months in advance...so they kept adding slots.
But as I said: fastpass+ was to encourage you never to enter a Standby line. Fastpass 1.0 was to relieve the big bottlenecks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well I am very nervous :/

...it happens to everyone sometimes

 

[lentesta]

Yes.... the idea that they just covered them to prevent confusion during Spring Break -- They didn't mind confusion during Thanksgiving, Christmas and President's Week?

That also crossed my mind. We may be trying to look for meaning in random events.

 

[lentesta]

I'd ask @lentesta to weigh in on the net effect, as he has crunched the numbers better than I ever could.

But while a particular attraction can handle the same number of people regardless of fastpass -- the park overall can handle fewer people because of fastpass. Oversimplifying a bit- every person counts twice -- since they are on 2 lines at the same time.
Imagine the whole park is just 2 rides -- 200 guests come in to the park. With no FP, the people divide in half... you get 2 lines with 100 people each. And imagine the park is only open for 1 hour, imagine the ride can do 100 riders per hour -- So the 100 people on line, get to ride within an hour. They only got to do 1 ride. Now add FP -- THe guests are actually on both lines at once! But... if you now have 200 people in both lines (virtual in 1 line, really in the other line)... and the rides can only get through 100 people per hour, and the park is only open for 1 hour.... The park can no longer handle 200 people.

@CaptainAmerica has the gist of it. Wait times at headliners went down; wait times at secondary (i.e., underutilized) attractions went up with FP+.

Introducing MDE is a confounder there bc it made it easier to see which attractions were FP-enabled without hiking across the park. Dinosaur is (I think) the canonical example there.

 

[lentesta]

It’s not meaningless if you’re offsite and when you get there there’s already 5000 people in line for Flight of Passage.

We've simulated this at MK, DHS, and AK over the past few weeks. Offsite guests will have an extra 60 to 120 minutes in line, even with a good touring plan, once ETPE starts. And that's at current crowd levels.

 

[SoFloMagic]

My point on the standby lines on unpopular attractions is that they forced people into them by creating a “i better book something” scenario that created “demand” where there wouldn’t be

Not to mention the three tiered parks, where if you don't book 3 you can't get another decent fastpass.

And not in response to you, but to others who have said FP+ makes things even, I can assure you thats not the case. Anyone with knowledge of the system has a big advantage. I once rode space mountain three times in an hour on Christmas eve. I hope FP survives.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not to mention the three tiered parks, where if you don't book 3 you can't get another decent fastpass.

And not in response to you, but to others who have said FP+ makes things even, I can assure you thats not the case. Anyone with knowledge of the system has a big advantage. I once rode space mountain three times in an hour on Christmas eve. I hope FP survives.

That’s maxpass...that is not the result of fastpass+ except in the most weird/marginal scenarios

 

[_caleb]

When fastpass was introduced, the gateclicks were about 40,000,000 annually. Now there’s 55,000,000...and they have added little if any net ride capacity in the years since.

Fastpass started with a simple premise: reduce waits to allow spending.

It’s a Crowd flow/distribution system now...they hold the tide back with it.

Numbers are what they are.

Why didn’t they ever move people to less-crowded areas of the park with incentives (beyond Fastpasses)? They could have used MDE to lure people into less-crowded areas with limited-time discounts (“Visit Cosmic Rays in the next 45 minutes, and receive a free Coke when you buy one!”). Was that ever a thing?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why didn’t they ever move people to less-crowded areas of the park with incentives (beyond Fastpasses)? They could have used MDE to lure people into less-crowded areas with limited-time discounts (“Visit Cosmic Rays in the next 45 minutes, and receive a free Coke when you buy one!”). Was that ever a thing?

It was supposed to be. Micro-targeted advertising based on the data collected by Next Gen.

 

[Jon81uk]

The universal pass is $99/$129 a day...

So that’s a $250-$300 daily ticket.

If you want that...enjoy the parks while you can. They won’t be able to get the masses needed to keep the revenues up and the parks open.

Disney parks are “mass” destinations...not elite ones. DNA

But previously everyone is paying roughly the same admission price and getting free FP+. Anything charged to jump the line is extra cash the park is getting in that they didn’t before.
the 60 day benefit might drive people to stay on property but that benefit also didn’t exist prior to FP+.
charging for skip the line benefits would be easy money for the park. The masses pay the standard admission and the people who can pay more pay more.

 

[Jon81uk]

Fastpass reduced the standby lines

Fastpass+ made the standby lines not practical/obselete. By design.

The prebooked system didn’t want you to go in the regular lines.
At all. That’s why Disney has deemed the system a failure. You were supposed to be happy with your 3 and then get to spending.

The original (which maxpass is the digital successor to) was a much better system. It provided flow throw the E-tickets and then the rest of the things operated as they always had.

The problem is that extra 25% of attendance. There’s no where to put them when your parks averaged 1 new attraction every 5 years...if you’re lucky. That’s Bob.

And we’ve passed go to collect our $200 again.

I agree with most of that. I do think Disney wanted to pre-book everything
except this bit

You were supposed to be happy with your 3 and then get to spending.

Disney have a attractions per guest target of something like eight per guest per visit. One of the reasons they brought MDE in and FP+ was because guests who didn’t know how to use FP and didn’t use it weren’t getting on enough attractions and having bad visits. They aimed to increase guest satisfaction by getting people up to that ride count.
I can’t find where I read the 8 per day thing but it’s been referenced several times on here before when talking about the launch of MDE.
I agree I don’t think they really succeeded in getting guests on more rides, other than making some attractions look more desirable by putting FP on things that didn’t use to have it.

edit to add
I had another look and couldn’t find the attractions per guest metric still.
but I found this article that talked a lot about MagicBands (and about the futuristic stuff that is now being canned!)

Disney's $1 Billion Bet on a Magical Wristband

If you want to imagine how the world will look in just a few years, once our cell phones become the keepers of both our money and identity, skip Silicon Valley and book a ticket to Orlando. Go to Disney World. Then, reserve a meal at a restaurant called Be Our Guest, using the Disney […]

www.wired.com

one passage stands out that is relevant to the discussion as to FP being added to more attractions
“There is an elegant business logic here. By getting people exploring beyond the park’s top attractions, overall use of the park goes up. People spend less time in line. They’re doing more, which means they’re spending more and remembering more.”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was supposed to be. Micro-targeted advertising based on the data collected by Next Gen.

Disney’s IT was horrific. You had to see it to even try to believe it.

I always believed FP+ was just the window dressing Iger used because he was too gutless to explain why they needed to spend the money

And in retrospect: that’s a hard stance to prove wrong

I agree with most of that. I do think Disney wanted to pre-book everything
except this bit

Disney have a attractions per guest target of something like eight per guest per visit. One of the reasons they brought MDE in and FP+ was because guests who didn’t know how to use FP and didn’t use it weren’t getting on enough attractions and having bad visits. They aimed to increase guest satisfaction by getting people up to that ride count.
I can’t find where I read the 8 per day thing but it’s been referenced several times on here before when talking about the launch of MDE.
I agree I don’t think they really succeeded in getting guests on more rides, other than making some attractions look more desirable by putting FP on things that didn’t use to have it.

edit to add
I had another look and couldn’t find the attractions per guest metric still.
but I found this article that talked a lot about MagicBands (and about the futuristic stuff that is now being canned!)

Disney's $1 Billion Bet on a Magical Wristband

If you want to imagine how the world will look in just a few years, once our cell phones become the keepers of both our money and identity, skip Silicon Valley and book a ticket to Orlando. Go to Disney World. Then, reserve a meal at a restaurant called Be Our Guest, using the Disney […]

www.wired.com

one passage stands out that is relevant to the discussion as to FP being added to more attractions
“There is an elegant business logic here. By getting people exploring beyond the park’s top attractions, overall use of the park goes up. People spend less time in line. They’re doing more, which means they’re spending more and remembering more.”

Boy...that’s kinda an altruistic view of Disney’s motives...

And the last paragraph is the problem...it didn’t happen.

 

[Jon81uk]

And the last paragraph is the problem...it didn’t happen.

Oh yeah the whole MyMagic+ system wasn’t really the success Disney hoped for I think.

 

[Unbanshee]

Covered, but better than the duct tape over at Safaris. This was as of 15 minutes ago.

Oh, I thought touring plans at least knew what they were doing. Don't you have reporters in the parks?

All of those (Safari, LWTL, Soarin') have been covered since July. Super easy to see on various YouTube videos/google searches to verify.

This is NOT a recent change