Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[TTLUTS]

Are you speaking for other guests, as everyone who stays on site feels that way? Did you know one of the top complaints among resort guests is the planning that FP+ requires?

There are many resort guests who hate the advanced reservations and miss being able to enjoy the day as it plays out. This is especially true when a ride breaks down or the weather's bad all day.

The truth is that AP's heading to the parks after work benefit from advanced reservations more than anyone else. They'll show up just after 6pm, use their three reservations, that resort guests could have had, and then leave. No need to buy dinner in the parks either.

It's also worth pointing out that resort guests did stay on site without advanced reservations until about a decade ago. I don’t believe that massive amounts of guests would cancel their trips over a change in benefits. A change that actually benefits most of them more too.

You seem to have a defensive and aggressive tone to your response. That’s not necessary.

No I am not and if it came across that way I didn’t mean to. Just saw that Disney says that it’s the one of the main benefits to staying on site.

And I agree that having to plan that much in advance is not ideal. That is why Express Pass is superior because you don’t have to plan in advance at all but still get to skip the lines.

But I also know that if you couldn’t get on the popular rides because you didn’t get in the park by 7am that would be a much bigger complaint than having to plan in advance to guarantee a ride.

Your last point we will have to agree to disagree. There is no way Disney’s Occupancy stays the same if they remove those perks. That’s why they instituted them to begin with. Those changes do not benefit on site guests, no matter what your reasoning is. There’s not a guest in the world that wouldn’t take a guaranteed ride over missing it unless they are out of bed by 6am to make park opening. Even if it means doing it 6 months in advance.

 

[TTLUTS]

Also, the resort guest benefit thing could be done with different rules for a maxpass-like system. For instance, you could limit off site guests to 5 FPs per day but allow on site guests 7 or something like that. They could still have a benefit without the ridiculous advanced planning.

The problem is, for anyone that doesn’t go to the park at the opening, you wouldn’t get to ride the best rides because they would be gone. This is worse than advanced planning. Tell that to a mother with a 5 and 7 year old who just paid a fortune for a hotel room for a week and can’t get her kids up at 6am so they miss riding their kids favorite ride Mine Train Because all the fast passes are gone.

 

[sbunit]

Wouldn't shock me if Disney implements both a Maxpass-like system as your standard operating system for resort guests and also introduce a paid fastpass system. That would IMO satisfy all parties involved: Allows for spontaneous day for those who don't want to plan and allows for planning and minimal waits for those who are ok with investing their money and developing a structured day of their choosing.

 

[DisneyCane]

The problem is, for anyone that doesn’t go to the park at the opening, you wouldn’t get to ride the best rides because they would be gone. This is worse than advanced planning. Tell that to a mother with a 5 and 7 year old who just paid a fortune for a hotel room for a week and can’t get her kids up at 6am so they miss riding their kids favorite ride Mine Train Because all the fast passes are gone.

I have no experience with max pass so I don't know how exactly it works (if DL ever gets to open again) but under the original paper FP system that wasn't the case. With only being able to hold one FP at a time (or waiting 2 hours for the next one), it prevented everybody from taking up all the FP for a ride first thing in the morning.

With the app based system you could do things like only distribute three hours at a time for each ride and limit people to one FP per ride per day (at least for popular rides).

As an aside, missing mine train should be a blessing. I have no idea why that ride is so popular. I rode it once with a FP years ago and remember being disappointed. Then, in the "mask pass" reopening period when all the lines were short I rode it again and concluded that it wasn't even worth riding if there is no wait at all. I'd take Snow White's Scary Adventure back over SDMT in a heartbeat.

 

[Touchdown]

Max pass is Fastpass+ except:
-You can’t make a reservation until you are in the park
-After your first reservation you cannot make another one until you have either used your previous one, your window to use your pass has begun and 30 min has passed since you booked your previous pass, or 2 hours has passed
-It includes Photopass
-Except for the highest tier APs (premiere and the pass below) it’s $20 a day or an add on price for the whole year to your AP

If you don’t pay, you get to use OG Paper Fastpass.

I would love it to come to WDW, but I’m not sure if they could give resort guests and platinum APs for free and then still be able to sell it to others. Maybe it would work without a lower tier.

 

[CJR]

You seem to have a defensive and aggressive tone to your response. That’s not necessary.

No I am not and if it came across that way I didn’t mean to. Just saw that Disney says that it’s the one of the main benefits to staying on site.

And I agree that having to plan that much in advance is not ideal. That is why Express Pass is superior because you don’t have to plan in advance at all but still get to skip the lines.

But I also know that if you couldn’t get on the popular rides because you didn’t get in the park by 7am that would be a much bigger complaint than having to plan in advance to guarantee a ride.

Your last point we will have to agree to disagree. There is no way Disney’s Occupancy stays the same if they remove those perks. That’s why they instituted them to begin with. Those changes do not benefit on site guests, no matter what your reasoning is. There’s not a guest in the world that wouldn’t take a guaranteed ride over missing it unless they are out of bed by 6am to make park opening. Even if it means doing it 6 months in advance.

I apologize if you felt that the tone was mean spirited, I can be frank, but I don't every want to come off as aggressive.

In my experience, you don't need to rope drop to get FP's to most rides. Even in DL where they have Max Pass now, almost all rides are available until about 1-2pm on a normal day.

I do agree that we'll have to agree to disagree on people cancelling vacations. While I'm not saying no one would, I don't believe any significant amount of people would. Heck, DVC really can't, and they do make up a large chunk. In DVC, you either use those points or eventually lose them. Those $800 rooms are a very small portion of the overall room count too. Of course, Disney doesn't want to lose them, but there are definitely ways of handling that. Really though, there are people that choose not to go to WDW today because they don't like the FP reservation system, so really, it's possible the two groups could cancel each other out.

There's been some major issues with FP+. As a resort guest, you say "guaranteed", but in reality it's not. Things happen, sometimes that impact ride operations for days. It's happened more than once too. You book in advance and then find out it's stormy all day, keeping Big Thunder or Everest closed, or Frozen Ever After breaks down. Plans get interrupted. It all sounds great on paper, but in practice, it's not as great.

While that would still be the case for legacy FP, the difference is, you could often find something else easily to fill that gap. Let's say it's rainy on the day your planning to visit DAK, you could switch your day over to Epcot instead, going to DAK on the sunny day during your trip. There are elements that put a damper on planning, because there are certain things that not even Disney can control. We definitely learned that lesson earlier this year too.

 

[matt9112]

Disney cannot get rid of advanced reservations because of the hotels. There are over 36,000 hotel rooms in WDW vs 2500 in DL. DL doesn’t have that same issue since it’s more of a locals park vs WDW being more of a tourist park. People won’t be willing to spend $800 per night at the grand Floridian if they can’t get on the rides they want. Not everyone rope drops and nor could they.

I dont think your far off but i think your wrong in some ways. Some guests love to wake up at 1am ( tongue and cheek) to plan there vacations but many feel its silly and over complicated. If i was paying 800 dollars a night i wouldn't want to HAVE TO do a virtual running of the bulls for those coveted rides. I would rather have the ability to you know...just wait in line. Granted if i can afford 800 a night im doing private tours at that point. Furthermore not every guest plans there vacation so far in advance....these guests are already at a huge disadvantage. Do they not matter? There just too dumb right?

As an aside this is a solution to a problem that they created that we are talking about. Capacity is entirely less than adequate in terms of restuarants as well as attractions. Now hear me out before you jump down my throat. Sure theres plenty of raw restuarant capacity but the ones everyone wants are clearly under capacity (relative to the demand) OR 180 day reservations wouldn't be required. So the question is why does ALL of the other eatery's (for blunt statistics purposes) suck? Why isnt the conversation to elevate those other eateries? Or build more of them? With attractions its similar but different because you do need filler attractions you need high capacity less amazing things to do. (Or high capacity amazing things) insert horizons here. But we both know the company is unwilling to go that route. People can act like new demand for an attraction in normal and a sign of success and i would give you that for 6 months....or a year...rides shouldnt be impossible to get fastpasses years and years later. Thats a symptom of not enough to do....ahmmm not enough things to do that people value the same. It is the single largest theme park complex in the world in terms of guests through its doors yet expanding is done at a snails pace.
Theres also the argument that ticket prices just need to be higher. Keep those peasants away! They dont deserve the magic. This tactic has been tried for the last 10 years and look at where we still are? In the era of the credit card and disneys own payment system people will still come. Its an infrastructure and quality of service question. Every sit down should be somewhere amazing not just this one or that one. The parks should also have rides engineered and built for you know...the busiest theme parks in the world.
I know i know "but the ride quality is all that counts" maybe to some people but the ride quality from TWDC with its financial abilities should never be in question...just like the ability to create attractions with RPH that REFLECT the fact they are some of the busiest attractions on earth that operate (normally) 365 days a year.

In conclusion i firmly beleive legacy fastpass was designed as a perk..a marketing tool a benefit But that fastpass+ was a decided neccessary evil to try and solve a problem they themselves have ignored and thus created for a decade or more when the profitability has done nothong but soar.
As a laat point theres also the question that they perfer ptedictive staffing and essentially running the "machine" at full capacity and you and i are simply the metal ingots.

 

[CJR]

The problem is, for anyone that doesn’t go to the park at the opening, you wouldn’t get to ride the best rides because they would be gone. This is worse than advanced planning. Tell that to a mother with a 5 and 7 year old who just paid a fortune for a hotel room for a week and can’t get her kids up at 6am so they miss riding their kids favorite ride Mine Train Because all the fast passes are gone.

Why couldn't that mother wait an hour in the standby line?

You're making it sound like a FP is the only way to access the ride. Mine Train specifically has an exceptional standby line.

Taking it back to FP, it's fun for those who get them, but the truth is that more resort guests would get more FPs in the legacy system, not less. Resort guests are much more likely to spend more than 3-4 hours in a park, compared to locals and AP holders.

The current system favors those who spend way less time in the parks, specifically APs and locals. Not resort guests spending ten hours in a park.

While some resort guests put a lot of focus on big name rides like Mine Train, you're limiting yourself to three FPs a day when you could have twelve (for example) with the legacy system.

It's nice to walk in and have a major attraction planned, but you could have enjoyed much more than that. If you ever visit another Disney resort, you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

[marni1971]

For the people that hate FastPass+, my question would be would you rather keep the existing system the way it is or would you rather have to pay for FP+? From what I have read on these forums, most locals/AP holders hate FP+ because it extends the wait time in the standby lines. So I guess the sacrifice seems to be (with Disney rumored to be changing to a paid system) that you will now have to pay for FP vs getting 3 and waiting standby for the other rides. Was that what FP+ haters wanted? Be careful what you wish for (but I think it’s too late)

What if the paid option was controlled enough so not to impact standby lines in any meaningful way?

 

[Jrb1979]

What if the paid option was controlled enough so not to impact standby lines in any meaningful way?

At most amusement parks I go to the paid skip the line system doesn't affect the standby line that much. When ever I am at Cedar Point the Fastlane line is usually really short. Maybe 20 people in it at most.

 

[matt9112]

At most amusement parks I go to the paid skip the line system doesn't affect the standby line that much. When ever I am at Cedar Point the Fastlane line is usually really short. Maybe 20 people in it at most.

The magic kingdom park sees roughly 5.7 x as many people as cedar point in a given year. The paid system isnt an inherently bad idea but people keep comparing it to universal or cedar fair parks or six flags....they all have a similar system....but FAR less people.
Cedar point 3.6 million
Six flags magic mountain 3..3 million

Universal is the only good apples to apples and as we know its very expensive and still capped.

 

[aliceismad]

I think it's worth mentioning that 10.38 million visited Islands of Adventure and 10.92 million visited Universal Studios Orlando in 2019. Meanwhile, 20.96 million visited Magic Kingdom (followed by Animal Kingdom at 13.88 million, Epcot at 12.44 million, and Hollywood Studios at 11.48 million). Disneyland had a more comparable 18.67 million visitors, but we know that Disneyland's attendance has a higher local ratio than WDW. I am not smart enough to know what ride throughput, etc., is for the parks. Is there a scale issue involved in comparing Universal with Magic Kingdom?

Any system is going to have pros and cons. While I personally prefer MaxPass to FP+, it seems like it may be problematic in a WDW environment, where there is a greater variety of guests and many, many more guests stay on site (and Disney may or may not feel they need to provide incentives for them to do so). Maybe that's just Disney brainwashing me to think FP+ is a benefit to me.

ExpressPass is an interesting concept, but it feels like it creates more of a tiered economic system among guests (only those who stay at the premium hotels or pay a lot more get it). Disney already had some press in recent years about about ticket increases and being too expensive for the average family.

 

[rle4lunch]

I think it's worth mentioning that 10.38 million visited Islands of Adventure and 10.92 million visited Universal Studios Orlando in 2019. Meanwhile, 20.96 million visited Magic Kingdom (followed by Animal Kingdom at 13.88 million, Epcot at 12.44 million, and Hollywood Studios at 11.48 million). Disneyland had a more comparable 18.67 million visitors, but we know that Disneyland's attendance has a higher local ratio than WDW. I am not smart enough to know what ride throughput, etc., is for the parks. Is there a scale issue involved in comparing Universal with Magic Kingdom?

Any system is going to have pros and cons. While I personally prefer MaxPass to FP+, it seems like it may be problematic in a WDW environment, where there is a greater variety of guests and many, many more guests stay on site (and Disney may or may not feel they need to provide incentives for them to do so). Maybe that's just Disney brainwashing me to think FP+ is a benefit to me.

ExpressPass is an interesting concept, but it feels like it creates more of a tiered economic system among guests (only those who stay at the premium hotels or pay a lot more get it). Disney already had some press in recent years about about ticket increases and being too expensive for the average family.

FP+ is perfect for the OCD driven planners. One of my job functions in my world is being part logistician. That said, there's a love/hate relationship with it. FP+ was never designed to help the parkgoer though. It was designed to keep families in one park at a time, to spread out their day so they are forced to putter through shops and restaurants, and buy buy buy. There is certainly a perceived benefit to FP+, but false nonetheless.

No one should be forced to war plan your WDW trip 7 months out in order to have a good vacation. Sure, you can wing it, but most likely at the end of the day/week/vacation, you're disappointed with the end result if you didn't plan accordingly.

 

[MurphyJoe]

The problem is, for anyone that doesn’t go to the park at the opening, you wouldn’t get to ride the best rides because they would be gone. This is worse than advanced planning. Tell that to a mother with a 5 and 7 year old who just paid a fortune for a hotel room for a week and can’t get her kids up at 6am so they miss riding their kids favorite ride Mine Train Because all the fast passes are gone.

Like Disney has already had to do with Rise and the boarding groups loto? Even before Fastpass in any form, you could still miss an attraction due to crowds. Rope drop or staying till park closure when the crowds had died down were really the only way to guarantee a ride without waiting hours when the park was busy. That much hasn't changed for the popular attractions without a FP or paid guide.

 

[matt9112]

Like Disney has already had to do with Rise and the boarding groups loto? Even before Fastpass in any form, you could still miss an attraction due to crowds. Rope drop or staying till park closure when the crowds had died down were really the only way to guarantee a ride without waiting hours when the park was busy. That much hasn't changed for the popular attractions without a FP or paid guide.

I think the biggest complaint of ROTR is the fact that waiting in line for a few hours isnt even an option. Win the lottery or see you tommorow.

 

[aliceismad]

FP+ is perfect for the OCD driven planners. One of my job functions in my world is being part logistician. That said, there's a love/hate relationship with it. FP+ was never designed to help the parkgoer though. It was designed to keep families in one park at a time, to spread out their day so they are forced to putter through shops and restaurants, and buy buy buy. There is certainly a perceived benefit to FP+, but false nonetheless.

No one should be forced to war plan your WDW trip 7 months out in order to have a good vacation. Sure, you can wing it, but most likely at the end of the day/week/vacation, you're disappointed with the end result if you didn't plan accordingly.

That's a fair argument. I am a planner, so I didn't mind having a rough plan for each day. I certainly don't plan to the minute, but I generally have a flow that we usually follow. I do that at DLR as well, even without FP, because there are ways to make my family's visit more efficient and peaceful without crisscrossing the park a billion times on the whims of "what do we want to do next?"

I will say on our vacation last year, we planned our FPs for the late morning and were able to get many more FPs throughout the day if needed, including at other Parks. We didn't spend a single day at just one Park. Of course, I do think if Disney can give people less time in lines and more time in shops, it's a benefit to them.

 

[MurphyJoe]

I think the biggest complaint of ROTR is the fact that waiting in line for a few hours isnt even an option. Win the lottery or see you tommorow.

Correct. I was making a comment about how TTLUTS's view of FP+ is that of the Rise boarding groups. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

 

[lentesta]

What if the paid option was controlled enough so not to impact standby lines in any meaningful way?

I know there are spelling differences between our countries. Is "controlled" how we'd spell "priced high enough" over here?

 

[rle4lunch]

I know there are spelling differences between our countries. Is "controlled" how we'd spell "priced high enough" over here?

He's alluded to a standard non-pay option as well with the MaxPass as a paid augment. So it's still on the parkgoer to value it's 'worth'..

 

[matt9112]

I know there are spelling differences between our countries. Is "controlled" how we'd spell "priced high enough" over here?

That but also capped im sure. Universal caps its passes. So the system can never overburden the overall picture. So for example (random numbers) 5000 for sale a day for hollywood studios etc. Also variable pricing would be a thing im sure too.